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2010-02-10 11:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL
sesh - 2010-02-10 9:57 AM

karen26.2 - 2010-02-09 7:15 PM

Sesh - any tips for butterfly?  How come the others in the pool look so smooth?  I'm not sure how I look except foolish, but I noticed my butterfly makes huge waves out in front of me, and others don't seem to do that.  Seriously, when I get to the end the water is crashing over the top.  I must be doing something wrong.

They probably look smooth because they've been doing the butter fly for a long, long time.  It's a ridiculously hard stroke to do, but it's also (in my opinion at least) one of the best core work outs around, so that's why I do it. 

First of all, there's the timing of your kicks and pull.  That really just comes with practice, practice, practice and getting stronger.  However, as for feeling like your making huge waves out in front, that might be easier to correct:

If I had to bet, you're probably pushing yourself up out of the water instead of pulling yourself through it.  Your arms may be to straight, going to deep, pushing you up, then you fall into the water making a huge wave.  The best way I can describe it is after you have thrown your hands forward, you basically pull the same way as you would on a free stroke, you just do it with both hands at the same time.  Elbows bent, pulling from the lats, not driving your hand down to the bottom, not swinging out wide either.  It's a funky feeling, but if you practice it a lot, it gets more natural.

It's kinda hard to do, but you can slow the fly down and work on it.  It's really on getting the timing down between dolphin kicks and the "two arm free."  Any up and down movement should be minimal and the result of the kick only.



I was watching ax men the other night, and one of the crews is a swamp logging crew in Florida.  The head of that crew is pretty rough looking, large guy, looks like he hasn't been out of the swamp in years.  One of the guys had been down too long so he jumped in to get him and did the butterfly out to where the kids bubbles were.  It was labored you could tell but had a smooth quality to it.  Strange.


2010-02-10 12:33 PM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL

And of random note, I actually do a few strokes of fly and then dolphin kick a few times to get going in races.  Seems I get up to speed and out of the way a lot quicker that way.

2010-02-11 10:36 AM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL
I just found out that the beach to battleship is not an official "Ironman" 70.3.  Its an iron distance - not sanctioned.  Change of plans....I think I'm going to do the one in Augusta in September instead.  Should be fun and maybe not quite so cold.  Also, it doesn't seem too far away which means I can get a little more excited about training.  I guess it also makes a little more logistical sense in that its not as far away.  I have an uncle, aunt and 10,000 cousins and counting that live about an hour from there too.  So I will be able to drive to his house in 3+ hours, spend the night and the onward to augusta.  Also, Alabama is playing at Ark that weekend so I don't have to worry about missing the game.

Missed swim class yesterday.  Decided to make up for it last night.  After about 100 yards, my lats, shoulders, and tris were about to pop out of their skin.  The pump I got in them was insane.  I did all I could to stretch them out and make it 1000 yards.  Not sure what I did so differently yesterday pre swim, I was thinking it might be the timing of my supplements, but my diet was really no different yesterday than any other day.  On a side note, it did make my muscles look ridiculously jacked, though that wasn't what I was going for, so I was still really disappointed in myself.  Oh well, back at it tomorrow.
2010-02-11 1:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL

GorgeousGeorge - 2010-02-11 10:36 AM I just found out that the beach to battleship is not an official "Ironman" 70.3.  Its an iron distance - not sanctioned. 

Just to clarify, not being Ironman 70.3 branded doesn't mean it isn't sanctioned.  Beach to Battleship is a USAT sanctioned event, so it counts toward USAT rankings and all that.  It covers the same 70.3 miles and is a true half iron man event.

Ironman is just a company that puts on the races.  The cynic in me simply sees Ironman or Ironman 70.3 and thinks more expensive.  And it is.  Augusta is over $50 more than BtoB.  That being said, my only HIM was an Ironman 70.3, but I couldn't pass up not doing the inaugural New Orleans race.  A lot of club members from here did Augusta last year as well and really liked it, so it's not like I'm trying to talk you out of it or anything.  It'll be wetsuit legal with a swim down current, so that's cool.

2010-02-11 4:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL
GorgeousGeorge - 2010-02-11 8:36 AM I just found out that the beach to battleship is not an official "Ironman" 70.3.  Its an iron distance - not sanctioned.  Change of plans....I think I'm going to do the one in Augusta in September instead.  Should be fun and maybe not quite so cold.  Also, it doesn't seem too far away which means I can get a little more excited about training.  I guess it also makes a little more logistical sense in that its not as far away.  I have an uncle, aunt and 10,000 cousins and counting that live about an hour from there too.  So I will be able to drive to his house in 3+ hours, spend the night and the onward to augusta.  Also, Alabama is playing at Ark that weekend so I don't have to worry about missing the game.



There are pros and cons to doing MDot "Ironman" races.  Mdot events are a lot more expensive, almost all are $250-300 and many other quality races are half that.  Mdot races are often larger, with 2000-3000 people.  Which can be exciting for friends and family and the athlete, it can also be a negative for the athletes. Long lines at packet pickup, larger transition area, clean transitions- everything in bags vs the bike rack, crowded bike courses, mandatory shuttle bus all come with MDot races.  And don't get me started about having to register almost 1 year in advance for 3/4 of the Mdot races. For spectators, Mdot races are not that great because of traffic, road closures and such.  But some people find the "big race" feel to be part of the experience of doing something big.  Also, if you want to go to Clearwater or Kona for Worlds, then you have to do a Mdot race.

I'll be doing a lot of Mdot races this year because I am looking for the large races this year.  Also, Mdot just implemented a new Pro policy (YEAH!!)  Pro's pay a one time (expensive) fee for the year and it allows them to do all any any Mdot race with exception to Worlds, requiring only a few weeks notice.  Otherwise, I would be doing a lot less Mdot races.

I guess what I am trying to say is that you should do the races that appeal to you and help you meet your goals. 

Rochelles
2010-02-11 4:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL
ARGGH!!  I was scheduled to do the Toyota Desert Classic on March 8th.  It is a little olympic race in palm desert, that gets a lot of attention because it is a few weeks out from the first big race in southern California (California 70.3).  This year it sold out in record time, and I wasn't able to get my registration in time.  So now, California 70.3 will be the first race of the year for me.  I would be okay with this, except that it will be my second ocean swim ever and the first race of the year..
I would have preferred to have one small race in before a ocean swim.

Rochelle  


2010-02-12 8:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL

wyldhair - 2010-02-11 4:38 PM ARGGH!!  I was scheduled to do the Toyota Desert Classic on March 8th.  It is a little olympic race in palm desert, that gets a lot of attention because it is a few weeks out from the first big race in southern California (California 70.3).  This year it sold out in record time, and I wasn't able to get my registration in time.  So now, California 70.3 will be the first race of the year for me.  I would be okay with this, except that it will be my second ocean swim ever and the first race of the year..
I would have preferred to have one small race in before a ocean swim.

Rochelle  

I've done one ocean swim.  Because of that one swim, when I win the lottery I will start a foundation with the sole purpose of ridding the worlds waters of every single jelly fish.

2010-02-12 9:40 AM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL

Wow.  We've actually got a couple inches of snow on the ground.  Everything looks pretty, but the roads are getting crappy.  The drive to work was SLOOOOOW.

2010-02-12 10:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL
sesh - 2010-02-12 9:40 AM

Wow.  We've actually got a couple inches of snow on the ground.  Everything looks pretty, but the roads are getting crappy.  The drive to work was SLOOOOOW.



None last night, but we've got a nice little flurry coming down now.  Visibility is still close to half a mile.  If it keeps this up, we'll have a nice little "dusting".
2010-02-12 10:18 AM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL
GorgeousGeorge - 2010-02-12 10:09 AM
sesh - 2010-02-12 9:40 AM

Wow.  We've actually got a couple inches of snow on the ground.  Everything looks pretty, but the roads are getting crappy.  The drive to work was SLOOOOOW.



None last night, but we've got a nice little flurry coming down now.  Visibility is still close to half a mile.  If it keeps this up, we'll have a nice little "dusting".


Oh, and the Mercedes marathon is this weekend.  If this keeps up, that race is going to be a mess.  I had been talked into running the half, but the good doctor nixed that idea a couple weeks ago.  No complaints from me now
2010-02-12 5:18 PM
in reply to: #2667819

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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL
GorgeousGeorge - 2010-02-11 11:36 AM I just found out that the beach to battleship is not an official "Ironman" 70.3.  Its an iron distance - not sanctioned.  Change of plans....I think I'm going to do the one in Augusta in September instead.  Should be fun and maybe not quite so cold.


I know a couple of people who did Beach to Battleship last year and had only good things to say about it.  (They did the full.)

I did Augusta last year as my first HIM.  You will have a FAST swim, and it will be warmer for sure.  Maybe too warm.  I think it was a well run event, and I did pick it partly because it was an IM branded event.  It was between the South Carolina Half Iron distance (which was a whole lot cheaper) and Augusta (IMO very expensive).  I finally decided on Augusta because everyone I knew was doing that one instead of SC.

The bike is a good course, not too hard if you're used to hills.  The run was flat, but I think I've already mentioned I hated the run because it felt like Groundhog Day - the same sections over and over again.  I hate looping.  But out of everyone I know that did it, I was the only one that complained about the run.

Let us know what you decide.  Either way I think you'll have a well run event.


2010-02-12 5:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL
So the time trail I signed up to do tomorrow has been postponed due to inclement weather.  It's snowing big time here in the ATL.  I'm kind of glad it was canceled because I was nervous about riding in wet or icy conditions.  I crashed pretty bad last year in the rain, and don't want to go through that again.

In other news - I had a great swim this morning, for me at least.  Every other Friday is circuit day so we do a swim workout for 30 minutes, then do circuits (combo of 4 land and 4 water exercises such as planks, or swimming with a bungee attached) for 30 minutes, and finish with 30 minutes of swimming.

I timed a couple of 100's and my times were 1:34 & 1:32.  The last time I timed myself it was about 1:40, so I was so excited about the improvement.  Last year this time my 100's were barely under 2:00.  Maybe there is something to consistency.

Sesh - thanks for the response on butterfly.  I think you're right, I crash back into the water creating the waves.  I think I need to go practice on my own because I feel so uncomfortable doing it in front of people.

On another positive, today I actually felt my lats working instead of my shoulders.  I don't know if it was because I was trying to engage and feel them working, or if I was actually using the correct muscles today.  It just felt like something clicked for me this morning.  We'll see if it continues into next week.

Rochelle - thank you for the link on pelvic tilt.  I'm not sure that's my issue because the signs listed don't really fit.  But I may try to find someone to check it out anyway.  My sit bones are a whole lot better.  I think the ART and Graston treatments were making it worse for me.  Like traumatizing the muscles, the doctor was breaking up adhesions, and I think it was making it worse.  It felt like horrible bruising.  Nothing against the doctor, I know a lot of people who go to him, and he knows his stuff.  I always have weird stuff happen to me, never the norm.

So, now what to do tomorrow since no time trial - maybe a 90 minute spin class.
2010-02-14 12:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL
Happy Valentine's Day!

What did everyone do this weekend?  Yesterday, after I slipped and fell on ice in the gym parking lot, I did an hour spin class and added 30 minutes after for a total of 90 minutes.  Today I just finished up a 12 mile run in the snow and ice.

I'm hoping to convince my self to do yoga later today, I feel like I need to stretch real good.

What's everyone else up to?
2010-02-14 12:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL
karen26.2 - 2010-02-14 12:19 PM Happy Valentine's Day!

What did everyone do this weekend?  Yesterday, after I slipped and fell on ice in the gym parking lot, I did an hour spin class and added 30 minutes after for a total of 90 minutes.  Today I just finished up a 12 mile run in the snow and ice.

I'm hoping to convince my self to do yoga later today, I feel like I need to stretch real good.

What's everyone else up to?


Wow Karen, a little overachiever this weekend...
Yesterday I put a deposit on a bike (B16), swam 1000 yds, and worked out.  I'm going to spin later today. 
2010-02-14 1:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL
GorgeousGeorge - 2010-02-14 1:38 PM
karen26.2 - 2010-02-14 12:19 PM Happy Valentine's Day!

What did everyone do this weekend?  Yesterday, after I slipped and fell on ice in the gym parking lot, I did an hour spin class and added 30 minutes after for a total of 90 minutes.  Today I just finished up a 12 mile run in the snow and ice.

I'm hoping to convince my self to do yoga later today, I feel like I need to stretch real good.

What's everyone else up to?


Wow Karen, a little overachiever this weekend...
Yesterday I put a deposit on a bike (B16), swam 1000 yds, and worked out.  I'm going to spin later today. 


Cool - you decided on the bike.  When do you get to pick it up?
2010-02-14 2:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL
karen26.2 - 2010-02-14 1:01 PM
GorgeousGeorge - 2010-02-14 1:38 PM
karen26.2 - 2010-02-14 12:19 PM Happy Valentine's Day!

What did everyone do this weekend?  Yesterday, after I slipped and fell on ice in the gym parking lot, I did an hour spin class and added 30 minutes after for a total of 90 minutes.  Today I just finished up a 12 mile run in the snow and ice.

I'm hoping to convince my self to do yoga later today, I feel like I need to stretch real good.

What's everyone else up to?


Wow Karen, a little overachiever this weekend...
Yesterday I put a deposit on a bike (B16), swam 1000 yds, and worked out.  I'm going to spin later today. 


Cool - you decided on the bike.  When do you get to pick it up?


They have a plan that's similar to the old school lay-away plan.  The deposit holds the bike for me and then i can pay it off whenever.  I have some money coming in next month or two so I can have it paid off in March.  Hopefully 6 weeks.  We'll see though.


2010-02-14 7:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL
sesh - 2010-02-10 9:40 AM

sjf21 - 2010-02-09 10:09 PM Sesh - I could use help with a swim drill or two, if you don't mind. I tend to drop my front arm when I take a breath. I think I am actually pushing down rather than pulling and I'm sure it is messing with my timing. I can tell that I am doing it but can't seem to stop. I think it stems from a bad habit when I started swimming. I would start to sink and think I would drop the arm to prevent it. I have tried the catch up drill for hundreds of meters but always revert back to it when I go back to swimming. Any tips?

Try the pull and glide with a pull buoy between your legs.  The buoy will let you forget about your bottom half so you can focus up top.  Basically, you just really exaggerate your... well, pull and glide.  You take a normal stroke but you hold it for a about a second longer.  So, your left arm is out front while your right arm is at the back end of your pull, and you pause there.  This is a good drill for streamlining and rotation work, but you can also focus on keeping that arm up when you take a breath.  It will exaggerate the amount of time you've got to keep it up there, so you should really be able to consciously focus on getting that good initial "grab."

That is a very, very common thing that your noticing.  I do it all the time at the end of sets.  You just get tired and certain parts of your stroke start to fall apart.  Problem is, not a lot of people notice it, so they never really get to work on it. 



Thanks! I have a buoy and will give that a try. I need to do it throughout the workouts. I tend to forget as I get tired later in the set. Thanks again.
2010-02-14 7:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL
karen26.2 - 2010-02-14 12:19 PM

Happy Valentine's Day!

What did everyone do this weekend?  Yesterday, after I slipped and fell on ice in the gym parking lot, I did an hour spin class and added 30 minutes after for a total of 90 minutes.  Today I just finished up a 12 mile run in the snow and ice.

I'm hoping to convince my self to do yoga later today, I feel like I need to stretch real good.

What's everyone else up to?



Just finished a 9+ mile run, my longest since the marathon in December. I actually felt good, not fast but good. Now I'm considering the ING half in Atlanta next month. Looking forward to some good swims this week. I am headed to South Florida for a couple of days and hope to squeeze a run on the beach in between meetings!
2010-02-14 10:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL
karen26.2 - 2010-02-14 10:19 AM Happy Valentine's Day!

What did everyone do this weekend?  Yesterday, after I slipped and fell on ice in the gym parking lot, I did an hour spin class and added 30 minutes after for a total of 90 minutes.  Today I just finished up a 12 mile run in the snow and ice.

I'm hoping to convince my self to do yoga later today, I feel like I need to stretch real good.

What's everyone else up to?


My husband and I went to Fresno this weekend for a bike race.  It was Bill's first cat 1 race in 16 years...  He got 9th.  We are both happy with that.   He is going to be 40 next month and there is a little bit of middle life panic going on.  I think he was worried that he was to old to play with the big boys.
I decided to throw my name into the hat and I did my first road race which means I had to race in the beginners  category.  I am happy about that.  I was really just looking to do the ride as a training ride.  I had a power and heart rate max that I didn't want to go over and I stayed pretty true to my training plan and still got 2nd.

This ended my 3rd week of build with my new coach.  He has worked me hard these last few weeks testing almost all of my limits.  I am whooped, and so looking to tomorrow since it is a day off!

Spring is officially here in California.  We have been on the cold side of normal for the last 2 months. But on Friday I actually did a bike ride in a light long sleeve  jersey NOAA.gov says that we will be building to 69 degrees over the next week and it looks like it will stay there for the next 4 weeks!  I am so looking forward to those temps. Where's the bikini!

Great training day Karen!  I hope you didn't hurt your self on the ice.
2010-02-15 10:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL
Great results for both you and your husband Rochelle!!  Way to go.

I'm fine, my lower back and ribs are tender, but I'll recover.

I have a question - in regards to HR.  I'm officially on week 3 of my IM training plan.  I'm not sure how I'm going to make it another 27 weeks, I took a nap both Saturday & Sunday, and I'm not even into the long workouts yet.  I'm sure I'll manage, I just need to get more sleep at night.

Anyway - when my plan calls for a specific HR zone(s), so far I've done pretty good staying in the zone(s).  But, today I noticed my HR would not go very high.  I was working hard, I don't think I could have given much more.  It makes me wonder if Saturday's & Sunday's workouts took more out of me then I think.  Kind of like when you're going to get sick, I've read you can tell by your HR when you wake up in the morning.  Is it similar if you're overly tired?  Your body just won't do more than it can handle?  Does that make sense?  I just know I was pushing hard at spin this morning and when the instructor said we should be in Z3 pushing Z4, I was in Z2 maybe low Z3 but dying.  Just curious, and if I should not worry about it.

And can you go over LT HR vs. Karvonen - why are the zones so different?  Are there benefits to using one vs. the other?  Or should you pick one and stick with it?  I'm just interested in what the differences are and why one may be better for IM training.
2010-02-15 6:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL

karen26.2 - 2010-02-14 1:19 PM Happy Valentine's Day!

What did everyone do this weekend?  Yesterday, after I slipped and fell on ice in the gym parking lot, I did an hour spin class and added 30 minutes after for a total of 90 minutes.  Today I just finished up a 12 mile run in the snow and ice.

I'm hoping to convince my self to do yoga later today, I feel like I need to stretch real good.

What's everyone else up to?

 

Hello,

Hope that everyone had a nice weekend.

I actually went running. My first run since a week. The weekend before I did a longer run, which start bad, ended worse and I hated every minute of it :-(

The week my legs felt really bad.

On top of that in in-laws came to vistit house. A propos: is having your in-laws over and doing three days of renovation work (basement) considered as a sport???

The run on Sunday was actually pretty nice. The next one is scheduled for tomorrow.

I am trying to cross read the last post and in particular have a look at the Bicycle test.

 

 

Take care

YouYou



2010-02-15 7:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL
Most certainly - home renovations count as a sport!

Glad you're back, wondered where you disappeared to.

I have not done the bike test yet - has anyone else done it?  And if yes, which option?
2010-02-15 7:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL
karen26.2 - 2010-02-15 7:06 PM Most certainly - home renovations count as a sport!

Glad you're back, wondered where you disappeared to.

I have not done the bike test yet - has anyone else done it?  And if yes, which option?


I don't have a heart rate monitor or a real bike, but I was curious due to usually having trouble getting my heart rate up.  So tried on a spin bike manually taking HR (10 second count at the end of every minute) but as you could probably guess it was pretty tough to get anything accurate and when youre going that hard, seeing straight enought to watch your watch while counting wasn't particularly easy.   I got some numbers but who knows how precise they are.  At least I succeeded in getting that heart rate higher than its been in a very long time.  My whole body felt like puking afterward though...

i also had a new sports related injury today.  After swimming, I looked in the mirror and noticed two red spots on each shoulder.  About the size of a half dollar and beet red.  I thought wth have I done.  Then I did a swimming motion in the mirror and figured it out... I didn't shave this morning so it was my shoulders rubbing against my face.  Pretty weird huh?
2010-02-16 6:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL
GorgeousGeorge - 2010-02-15 8:34 PM
karen26.2 - 2010-02-15 7:06 PM Most certainly - home renovations count as a sport!

Glad you're back, wondered where you disappeared to.

I have not done the bike test yet - has anyone else done it?  And if yes, which option?


I don't have a heart rate monitor or a real bike, but I was curious due to usually having trouble getting my heart rate up.  So tried on a spin bike manually taking HR (10 second count at the end of every minute) but as you could probably guess it was pretty tough to get anything accurate and when youre going that hard, seeing straight enought to watch your watch while counting wasn't particularly easy.   I got some numbers but who knows how precise they are.  At least I succeeded in getting that heart rate higher than its been in a very long time.  My whole body felt like puking afterward though...

i also had a new sports related injury today.  After swimming, I looked in the mirror and noticed two red spots on each shoulder.  About the size of a half dollar and beet red.  I thought wth have I done.  Then I did a swimming motion in the mirror and figured it out... I didn't shave this morning so it was my shoulders rubbing against my face.  Pretty weird huh?


That is by far the strangest injury I've heard of yet.  You didn't notice it while swimming?  That's funny!
2010-02-16 9:07 AM
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Subject: RE: Wyld Hair On A Tangent Group -FULL

GorgeousGeorge - 2010-02-15 7:34 PM
i also had a new sports related injury today.  After swimming, I looked in the mirror and noticed two red spots on each shoulder.  About the size of a half dollar and beet red.  I thought wth have I done.  Then I did a swimming motion in the mirror and figured it out... I didn't shave this morning so it was my shoulders rubbing against my face.  Pretty weird huh?

Awesome.  Been there, done that.  I don't know what's worse.  The chaffing or shaving before you go swim and letting the chlorine go to town on a freshly shaven face.

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