Todd's Tri Turtles 2 (Beginner, Sprint, 5K, 10 K) - Closed (Page 13)

Hi RachMart,

Are you slowly exhaling while underwater? For me this made a big difference, because I was trying to exhale then inhale when I lifted my head out of the water and there is just not enough time. Now I "calmly" blow bubbles out my nose and/or mouth so that when I lift my head out of water I only need to grab air.

The other technique that I'm working on right now is good body rotation, and turning my head WITH my body. By moving my head and body together, my technique is becoming a lot more efficient and I'm not gassing out as much as I used to. I like to watch this video every week as a reminder:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB4fJxMWX3U

I'm a newbie to swimming too, but hang in there, it will get better. There are a lot of helpful youtube videos out there. Try using fins, hand paddles, and/or snorkel as needed. Good luck!

Rod, first off congrats on hitting your goals for the month and improvement.

In ref. to your question. I don't really think to much about it and if I do it's not until towards the end of the run and I'll explain. If you are a weaker swimmer than someone else and kill yourself to stay up with them you will pay later and will do so without knowing if you gained anything. What you didn't know in that moment is that they just took up cycling and it's their weakest leg and they average 10 mph for the distance of the ride while you aver. 16 mph. Or you kill yourself to keep up with someone on the bike only to find that they aver. 6:30 miles on the run while you average. 8:30, but because you used extra energy to keep up you now aver. 9:30. I could continue to throw out examples but the best advice I can give is to be and do your best on the day of the race. If you pace properly, run your race, you will finish happy and healthy. Now the end of the race - you see someone in the last mile or so in your age group and you think you can catch them, then go after um. You may or may not catch them but you would have left it on the course and the race will be over.

Rachel, just about every swimmer I know goes through breathing issues at the start. Heck, I still breath just about every stroke, which I know is not proper but it works for me and is my penance for the 16 years of smoking. After swimming ugly for four years now I wish that I had paid the money and found a swim instructor when I started training. I have joined masters now but I have a lot of bad habits to break and it has become a whole "it has worked thus far so why change it" kind of thing for me. If you could swing the instructor it would probably be best, but if you can't then continue practicing and do what you can do, which will improve just maybe not at the rate you would like.

So far swimming is going ok EXCEPT for my speed. In my developmental masters swim class, my lane mates are very accomodating but I am so tired of being the slowest in my lane and in the entire class. My goal is to be able to swim strong and finish but its still frustrating.
If we are set to do a 300 swim, by the time I get to 50 yards, everyone else is already at 100 yards. The gap gets bigger the longer we swim.
I don't usually finish the entire workout the instructor gives us because I don't swim fast enough. She usually guides me in the most important part of the workout to ensure I get the drills I need done. I don't have any breathing issues. My kick is ok but very weak. Kicking drills with a board SUCKS for me because I BARELY move down the pool.

My training plan includes 3 swims per week. Two of the workouts are with my developmental master swim class. The 3rd swim is on my own and I was trying to build up my endurance to swim zero to one mile swim plan.

Would it be better to focus on speed drills instead?
Would it be better to focus on kicking drills instead? Would a stter kick help me go faster?

For a point of reference, I am doing about 4 minutes per 100 yards freestyle.

Hey Lovey,
Aside from strength/ speed drills, have you examined your form? Maybe find out what's is causing drag and slowing you down. Kicking from knee? Splayed legs? High head position? Are you splashing or making a lot of bubbles? Etc etc. it's easier to go faster by correcting drag than powering through

Tracey this would be a tough one for me even if I could actually see you swim, but almost impossible not being able to see. I would ask the masters swim coach what the single biggest factor that is keeping your speed down and hammer the heck out of that at least one of the three workouts. I can tell you that a lot of times I hear people speak on and on about kicking but never really hear anyone speak about a persons pull / stroke. I kick very little and when I do it is more of a scissor kick. I am able to swim just under 2:00 per 100 with my extremely minimal kick. My masters coach said that I am able to make up for a lot of it with my pull and how fast I turn over strokes. I am not saying that I am fast by any means (MOP) but I have such a hard time trying to kick correctly when I swim. I swear some times I think my mind can only do two things at a time in the water, because every time I try to kick (correctly) I either stop breathing or my stroke is greatly altered. My masters swim coach tried and tried to get me to kick correctly and then one day told me to go back to how I was doing and to concentrate more on breathing and head position because she felt they effected my speed more than my ugly kick.

Question, I know you said you are really slow during the kick drills, how does that compare to your speed when you put a block between your legs and do the pull drill (all arms)?

Also to answer the other question you had, I have always been one who believes in gaining endurance and then working on speed once I know I have the ability to properly / safely complete the distance. I know I'm not going to sprint for a 1.2 mile swim so I just make sure I got the distance covered and then try to improve.

My masters swim coach suggested a few private lessons.
2:00 per 100 yards would be a nice dream for me. The person who wrote the Swim Zero to One Mile, Ruth Kazez, believes building your endurance first then working on speed. I use the same concept in running so why not swimming! Because somehow, it bothers me so much being so slow in the pool but I still show up determined to improve. When I use a pull buoy (a block between my legs?), my pace is faster. When my coach watched me, she thought my stroke was fine with the pull buoy so my kick was the culprit. When I am swimming, I try to feel how much I kick. When I feel like I am doing a nice scissor kick, I am told my legs are barely moving. When I feel like I am kicking like a wailing child, I am told I am doing a proper scissor kick. For me that’s an issue. I feel like I am going to kick the water right out of the pool and it makes me more tired.

My spin instructor is also a triathlete and a triathlon coach. I just sent her an email for advice and whether she could give me a few private lessons.

Rod~

Congrats on your completion of your program! It sounds like you are doing fantastic! I like what you said about the rain LOL I have been rained on during a lot of the running events I used to do and so far two of my Tris caught some rain. I always think it feels nice because the humidity here is at %110 during race season!! You brought up a question that a lot of people seem to battle with. I have always from day one took some good advice from my sister who is a Track and field coach... RUN YOUR OWN RACE..... it is hard to do sometimes, but just worry about yourself and not the person in front or besides or behind you. Many of the Tri sprints I have attended are pool swims.... I race in The Novice Masters Group and they ALWAYS GO LAST.... not only do they go last, but because I am the worlds worst swimmer I am usually the last one to be seeded in the pool. I am usually STILL waiting to swim and the people that swam first are DONE WITH THE ENTIRE RACE and coming across the finish line before I even get in the pool. It sucks coming in to T1 from the pool and people are done or heading out on the run while I am still changing over to get on my bike. I remind myself I am racing against ME, not any of the other people who are ahead of me. The bike is my strongest leg and I always end up passing a ton of people... last year I was the very last swimmer out of my first open water swim...I got stuck out there having a panic attack thinking the lake zombies were going to get a hold of me (haha) anyway, everyone in the entire race was already on bike and running and I still ended up finishing before a bunch of people. You already have a awesome mindset about doing your OWN PROGRESS AND DOING YOUR OWN PACE!! Keep following your own plan and run your own race and I promise you will be hammering past people who went out as fast and furious as they could, and now they are walking or sitting on the side of the road wondering what happened as the *Turtle* beats feet safely across the finish line..... never fails!!! Keep up the great work!!!

NC Turtle Darcie

Edited by Pixiedustlady 2014-01-27 4:17 PM

Rach~
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First of all way to go on the workouts and tracking your food! I agree food tracking really helps! I feel your pain on the swimming. I have never been taught how to do a swim stroke. The only swimming I have done is floating around in the water or swimming up to the pool bar in Cancun LOL My problem is no one around here gives adult lessons. A few weeks ago I talked to the Aquatics director on base and they had a childrens *learn to swim* progam that lasted five days. I went every night for a week for a 30 minute lesson. I got some good pointers but the girl teaching was used to working with preschool kids so most of the time I just repeated the same thing over and over. I at least got some feedback and I feel a lot better then I did when I started. I also broke down and hired a swim coach that works with a very busy Triathlon club. This was a big commitment and expensive as I had to travel 70 minutes to get this private lesson. The lesson was worth its weight in gold. She had me use swim fins and also purchase a swim snorkel. She took video of me and at the end of the day I had a nice long email discussing all of the things we did and she also sent me all my videos so I could see what was WRONG and what was RIGHT. She also outlined what I should work on. We did a LOT of work with the Fins. I am amazed how FAST I can move with those things on! The swimmer snorkel is awesome because I don't have to worry about breathing while I focus on learning how to kick (yep I found out I was a knee kicker, still am) and we did a lot of swimming on my back. It is all about balancing, she doesn't even want me doing anything but what she taught me, she says it takes time and patience and lots of practice. So I am not suppose to be worrying about anything but the drills she gave me... BUT now that I am doing it all alone I DO practice freestyle because I have a race coming up LOL I started two weeks ago with zero aerobic base and I know it will be a long time before I am a ok swimmer.but got to start some place!! If you want I would be more then happy to send you the workout/drills that the coach I hired sent to me... I am a TOTAL BEGINNER SWIMMER so they are very basic drills. I know it sucks to have to spend money but I totally think it is worth it to learn how to swim the correct way so you can feel more confident!!! Wish you lived closer we could swim together!! Best of luck to you!!

NC Turtle Darcie

Hi Lovey,

I had my first swim class today, and my coach wants me to work more on kicking too, because my hips are sinking down too low in the water (making me less streamline). Those kick board drills are killer! My coach was of the belief that once I build up my kick, I'll just take off. In her experience, mastering the kick is a common catalyst for improving distance/endurance. Keep up the good work!

Hey Rod,

I know that tendency! I love hunting down people in the distance to pass when I'm on my bike. However, I've gotten better over time as that same person sometimes passes me 30 minutes later down the road when I'm starting to gas out. I'll take Hunting Triathlete's advice and just focus on the pace that's right for me during training and racing.

Thanks. I am going to add some kick board drills on the days I swim on my own but still do my endurance plan.
The first time I did a kickboard drill, I went backwards! Even the coach tried not to laugh.
When I use the kick board, I have to put my face in the water. Most of the people in the pool don't. If I have the board right in front, my lower body sinks.

I am still motivated and determined to get it right and improve. You guys are very encouraging.

Went for a run today in -23 degree weather. Three minutes in the condensation from my face mask not only fogged up my glass they became encased in ice in seconds. Got those off but then I grew ice crystals on my upper and lower eye lashes. Soon my left eye froze shut and my right eye was not to far behind. To say I had an interesting run would be an understatement!

Hope everyone had good laugh at this.

Edited by Hubbie 2014-01-27 9:24 PM

Thank you for the advise, and thank you everyone for your great posts! I had a great swim today. Although not even close to perfect, I was much better on my breathing today and did not feel like a complete idiot. I also did some drills with the kickboard and found that I don't keep my lets straight either, however when I did I slowed considerably. I feel like I am starting to move into the right direction. Thanks again!

QUOTE]Originally posted by RachMart

Thank you for the advise, and thank you everyone for your great posts! I had a great swim today. Although not even close to perfect, I was much better on my breathing today and did not feel like a complete idiot. I also did some drills with the kickboard and found that I don't keep my lets straight either, however when I did I slowed considerably. I feel like I am starting to move into the right direction. Thanks again!

Ha, way to battle the elements! Hope you followed that run up with some hot cocoa.

I don't have anything to add as far as swimming, but I love reading all the advice. I know I need it! I am (not so patiently) waiting for my wrist to heal so I can start swimming again. It's great to see all the gains you guys are making... it gives me hope ^_^

I did go to the Wellness 5K on Sunday morning. Already seeing the benefits of this group! I wouldn't have know about this event without the group. I started talking with a girl (we were both lost trying to find the place) and ended up running with her. She had her 3 year old in a jogging stroller. I kept pace with her and we chatted most of the way, so it wasn't my fastest run, but it was very enjoyable. I'm typically trying to really push myself when I run, so a fairly leisurely pace was a nice change. I won't be breaking any records, but it got me out there and moving. She and I are both planning to hit as many of those events as we can this year, with the idea to do at least 1 event a month.

Hubbie, this is insane! I'm a pretty big wimp when it comes to the cold. I guess it's good I ended up in Texas. Kudos to you for getting out these in such crazy weather!

Hubbie~
Yep I got a good laugh at it!! I read it off to my husband and soon as I told him you were in -23 he said $%^&*( that &*(^! we are waiting for a big snow storm that starts in a few minutes...we live by the beach so this is a BIG event! I cant imagine running in -23! I am glad you got back in before you totally froze over!! lol hope you warmed up with a hot buttered rum and a nice warm bath!!

Completed a 500 yard workout. Swam continuously with no fins switching to breast stroke every 4th length. Started late so shortened my workout to the endurance portion. Swim buddies opted out because it was cold outside. It's a warm indoor pool so made myself go. I almost changed my mine when they did. Glad I didn't. I felt really good regardless of my pace. I relaxed and felt I could go a lot more but had time constraints. Endurance is improving.

Hey Turtles,
I got this email last night and plan on attending. It is free and all you have to do is click and reserve your spot. They send a link so you can join the presentation. Terry Laughlin who is *total immersions* swimming wizard is doing this along with six time Olympic running coach Bobby McGee. The show is called *How to get faster in Triathlon the Swim VS the run. Just thought I would share it with everyone!


http://triathlonresearch.org/live-event-registration

Well done Hubbie on even contemplating training in those conditions.

I can't imagine what that would be like. I've only been in snow twice in my life. I'll never complain about the cold ( what we consider cold) again

Rod

I can empathize. I have not ran in weather that cold but I did run a half marathon in freezing temps during a snowstorm.
Race started with no snow, but 2 hours later, we were running in 2 feet of snow. It was an out and back course on a trail surrounded by water so there was no short cut. The water stands only had frozen water and Gatorade. We stopped twice to pry my friend's eyes open after being frozen shut.
I will not do that again.
I am amazed you kept on running. I would have high tailed it home to some hot coffee. Hats off to you.

Great report, glad you were able to take part and even better that you were able to find a like minded person to run and share the experience with.

Well back to site after a wee challenge with someone hijacking email accounts etc grrrrr.

I have updated my log. Missed a few turbo rides as I don't usually log them into Strava.

So how things going? Pretty darn good really.

Done a couple of long 3 hr plus walks about 12 miles. Killed me the first one! Spent most of the rest of the day in bed. (I know, I know - it is just walking but it is movement non the less).

Running has been going well. I now have my youngest son for company. We are up to 15 walk and 15 run right now. No real worries with my back. It is just the same as it was. It did get noticeably better for a few days but back to where I started so I am not worried. Been getting few pains on the bridge of my right foot especially after long walk but nothing to write home about.

Cycling - Started sufferfest this week. I did the Lactate test and did first session yesterday. Loved it. Far more than I thought. It is really weird to see someone in a video overtake and ride away and start cycling harder to try and catch them, then realise it is a VIDEO! LOL

Thanks for the wee notes of encouragement posted and once I catch up and read the posts I will be lurking the pages once more.

2 hour school delay means all early gym classes cancelled this morning. I didn't get my spin class or weight training in. I do still have my development masters swim class tonight.

I will have to get there a little late as hubby and I have to juggle younger son's basketball practice, my swim class, his raquetball game and older son's PSAT meeting, all tonight.