Amschrod's Group - FULL (Page 14)

Sounds like you had a good time this weekend.

15% off is nice because tri stuff is always pricey.

I hope I can be a little bit of help and not confuse you too much with my ramblings! Sometimes there is just so much to think about while you are swimming. That's why when I work on my swimming, I only concentrate on one thing at a time. 

Yep, just a couple of weeks until your big day! You are going to do great!  I am ready for my HM; I am feeling really good both physically and mentally.

Anthony

Good look with the start of your HIM training, and enjoy your visit with mother and sister.

That is a very good and very difficult question, and I have been thinking about it all morning.  In the longer events, nutrition is very important and really needs to be worked out in training, so that's why you will hear things like "train like you race", or "nothing new on race day". You even hear nutrition sometimes referred to as the "4th discipline" of triathlon. It can be a pretty individual thing, so you have to find what works for you.

As a starting point, most people say 2-300 calories/hour on the bike, and 100 or so calories/hour on the run. If you want to use what's on the course, Musselman is using Hammer products (HEED and hammergel), so try them and see if you like them. Somehow, some people can't stand Hammergel, but they love Gu or vice versa, and it's like that for people with all different kinds of sports products.

As far as what I do, I am kind of unique I do not like or even tolerate much as far as calories when I run, yet I don't seem to bonk. For example, yesterday for my long run, I got up, had a cup of coffee with a little cream, and started my run about a half hour later. Ran 12 miles in a little under 2 hours, and felt fine. Took a shower, then went with my wife for her 1.5 mile daily walk, came home, read the Sunday paper, and then had some breakfast. No bonking, which is pretty strange. For long rides, I have about 2-250 calories/hour, but I make my own concoction with water, honey, a little bit of vanilla protein powder, and a little bit of cream. Yes, cream and protein powder (I said I was unique), because somehow, for ME, that makes it much more palatable and digestible.  If I have something with just sugar, my stomach just sort of locks up and I can't get anything down. In the hot weather I add Nuun tablets for electrolytes to my water bottles and nutrition bottle.

So, to make an extremely long story short .

1. Start with 2-300 cals/hr bike, 1-150 cals/hr run
2. Find what products work for you for your taste and digestibility
3. Practice in training
4. Nothing new on race day
   
5. You are an individual, so take what people tell you with a grain of salt, or maybe endurolytes

I would love to hear what Julian can tell us about this subject since he is an experienced marathoner .

Anthony

Hey everyone! I had a nice weekend of training. Saturday I slept in a little, went to the Y and it was so crowded I had to wait 10 minutes for a lane. Ended up with only 15 minutes to swim before I had to leave to get ready for work, so I decided to do sort of a time trial, only without a warm up. Managed 800 yards in 15 minutes  for a 1:53/100 pace. Not too fast, but considering I haven't been swimming much and I didn't warm up, I'll take it!

Sunday was my last long run before my HM next week. 9:45 pace which my plan called for, but on a hilly course with about 1000 ft. of elevation gain and loss. My race is hilly, but not as hilly as that. Felt good throughout, and very strong at the end. I am feeling very good both mentally and physically, so I am looking forward to working hard and trying to achieve my goal next Sunday.

On a very personal note, yesterday was my oldest kid's birthday. Fortunately, his college has a weird schedule, and he is home this week. We had about 25 relatives over, and had a great time. To bore you even further, I like photos so here are a couple.

This is the first picture of me and him together. He was born 6 weeks early so he was under 5 pounds:

Here we are yesterday on his birthday:

Anthony

Hi to one and all

Firstly - great pics and thanks for sharing, I'm sure you are saying where did all the time go, when you see how fast they grow up. I know I am and my kids are 5 and 3!

Now for nutrition - I think the question was mainly about nutrition for work outs that are longer than 90 minutes. Personally, my decision about nutrition, either for a race or a workout, is based on the time and the intensity, not just the time. For example this morning I did nearly an hour on the bike trainer and only drank water as I had a big day of eating yesterday so I didn't feel depleted in any way. But usually for an hour on the bike trainer I will mix a weak solution of Gu2O (just a scoop or two less than the guide)

Now for workouts:

Running - Generally if I am going for a run of one hour of less I won't take anything, over the hour and I will carry water and Gu gels, and probably a cereal bar.  For runs over two hours (marathon training LSD) I plan in advance that I will need more water and generally run past a park with a drinking fountain or a friendly coffee shop to fill up. Solid food wise on the run I try to get the cereal bar in early as I cannot get it down easily later on and I don't tend to eat much before I leave at 5 / 5:30am. I will probably go for an hour and then have a Gu gel every 30 to 45 mins after that.

Bike - On the few (outdoor) rides I have done over one hour so far I have just taken Gu20 in my bottle and a cereal bar for  half way. I will have to learn as I go along about biking for three or four hours. My plan at the moment is to take gels but spread then out further than running 45 mins to one hour, mainly to reduce the amount of time I break the rythmn of cycling rather than a calorie burn thing

Swimming - I always take a bottle of Gu20 swimming with me, I feel I always need something to keep me ticking over and drinking water while swimming in the stuff just seems silly. I probably drink 1/4 of the pool with my poor technique anyway.

And finally - my marathon nutrition schedule: normal breakfast, either poached eggs on toast or big bowl of cereal with dried fruits and nuts. Sip Gu20 drink until 30mis before the start and take restroom break as close to start as possible. Banana just before the start. Drink at every aid station that takes my fancy, people may scoff but I will skip a drink at an aid station early on if I don't think I need it. That will bring me to half way, estimate about 1750 - 2000 calories gone by now, so the tank is pretty much empty although it probably doesn't feel like it so I have at least one gel and start looking out for fruit at every aid station and I eat pretty much a piece or two at every station if I can stomach it. After half way I drink at every station and accept the fact that I may need the rest room before the end. Depending on the heat I will drink either water or sports drink or both.

For a half marathon race I scale the above scheme back but not by half, more like a third, so I eat the same before the start but then take gel from ten miles,  water whenever I feel like it up until about 9 miles and then all the time.

Hope that helps, and I would welcome ideas for nutrition on the long bike rides although my long bike rides are going to be quite social affairs for some time to come so I will have sufficient rest stops.

J

Hi

After all the nutrition talk I have my own question about how to balance out my training, and whether I even should balance it at the moment.

Just from my training log you can see an awful lot of green, I gotta admit I like my new bike and I am deliberately spending time in the saddle to get used to it! Something in me feels that I should run and swim more, but what is a reasonable balance based on the following factors:

1. Realistically I can't work out every day, something is going to come up sometime that stops me so I need to be flexible. Also I am an early morning exerciser

2. Biking on the trainer works really well for me at the moment, the bad weather may keep me indoors but I can push myself hard on the trainer

3. I know I have a good running base but I worry that only one or two runs per week is not enough, maybe it has to be though

4.  I certainly want to fit swimming in - it is good for me and I actually like it when I am in the pool. Plus the outdoor pool I use is heated so I don't have much of an excuse in terms of the weather, only thunder storms would stop me going.

5. Should your training hours match the ratio of time you spend in the tri race or the relative weakness you have in each of the sports?

Comments and suggestions welcome as I draw up a schedule

J

Anthony, great pics!!  I always think of my kids' birthdays as a big deal for me too, since it was the day I became a mother!

Okay, so the nutrition "drink" you drink...well, I don't think I will be trying that!  I think what I'm going to do for now, based on your and Julian's advice (thanks, J!) is go with GU20 for 90 minutes or less, and for more than 90 add in a gel for every hour over 1. I have a really hard time eating real food while I'm riding (I don't like all the chewing!).

So for a 2 hour ride, I would do GU20 and one gel (and water).  I'll let you know how it goes.

Have a great night everyone!

First of all, thank you very much for sharing your nutrition approach with us. I truly appreciate the time and effort you put into your post. You have lots of experience, and that's  a big help to the rest of us.

The always difficult balance between training and our busy lives. I also train mostly early morning, but you have to sleep sometimes, too! Occasionally, I am able to fit a catnap into my lunch break, and that helps.

You have been doing great on the bike!  I would say, though, to get outside a little if you can just to get more experience on the road.

Your running base is great and will serve you well. Your biking will help you maintain that running base, not as much as running would, but you won't lose it like you would if you were doing nothing. Still, if you can, try to get in 2 runs per week, and also do a brick with a short run after one of your bikes to get your legs used to the feeling. Only really needs to be a mile, and that will take you way less time than it takes me

More swimming is good! In a race, ideally you would like to get out of the water with your breathing and heart rate under control, and feeling warmed up for the bike rather than worn out.

I only have time for a short answer now, but I'll get into it a little more later today. But one thing you hear people say a lot is, "train your weakness, race your strength", which goes along with your working on the bike and swim more than the run.

Hope that's a little bit of help!

Anthony

Thank you. Looking back at my post Irealized that I  forgot to mention that he turned 21 so it was a big milestone.

Okay, so the nutrition "drink" you drink...well, I don't think I will be trying that!

I understan completely.! I am a freak of nature; just ask my wife 

Sounds good. I think I will try the Gu20 as well since that is one product I have never tried. I also don't like solid food on the bike. Hard to chew, and for me hard to get enough water to wash it down easily.

Try it out, see how it works and change if you need to. You are absolutely right; definitely water with the gel.

Anthony

I finally bought a stability ball and started the abs workouts this week. Did the excercises Monday and today, but I left out the medicine ball twists because I don't have a medicine ball at home. I wonder if I could just use a dumbbell instead. Maybe I will try that on Friday. To be honest, I am glad I am doing them at home because I'm not too stable on the stability ball. I am sure that getting better at staying steady on the ball helps your core as well.

I officially start my HIM training next week, and I am starting to get a little nervous about the bike since I have been such a lazy bum about it over the Winter. I will shoot for 60-75 miles next week, and see how I feel. Hopefully, my run fitness will carry over onto the bike a little.

Have a good day, everyone.

Anthony

Thanks for the answers to all my questions. As I was running this morning a thought just came to me about the frequency of training in a week. I have really struggled with this, mentally if not physically lately so a run at 5am was just what I needed to get my head straight. My aim for this month will be 3 bikes rides, 2 runs and 2 swims per week, 7 workouts over 7 days how simple is that! Then if I have extra time for workouts I will add them in the following order: first a run, then a bike and then a swim.

So far this week I am on two bike rides and a run, with another ride planned tonight.

I'll let you how long it lasts and how closely I stick to the plan

Amazing how thinking of nothing for an hour really helps the thought process!

J

One more nutrition note. I will post a nutrition comment for every workout that I do on my training log. Before during and after the workout / race.

J

I sometimes do the medicine ball twists with nothing and they still hurt.  The other day I did them with a big jug of olive oil (I just twist side to side...I don't do the roll the ball under) and that worked too!!

Hey hey

Just a quick note of thanks for the swimming tips posted earlier. I hit the pool this morning and breathing every stroke I was able to get 1600 yrds in 30 mins, without stopping

More to come on the swim next week I hope

J

You know, I was by the laundry room when I was doing the exercises, and I thought maybe i should just use a big jug of detergent, so maybe I will next time.

Oh man, that is one heck of a swim you had today! I imagine you had that good feeling of everything coming together and feeling right.

I'm sure it will!

Yep, everything felt like it came together for that swim.

J

Julian, sounds like you are swimming great- can you pass some of that over to this coast please?

Anthony- are you ready for the big race?  I hope you have a great run, accomplish your goals and most of all have a great time!  You have prepared well for it, now is the easy part.  Cant wait to hear the post race report.

All is well here in the south, the sun is shining and the temps will be in the mid to high 70's for the next several days.  I swam at the regulation sized pool yesterday- nice and sunny made it tolerable but darn if its not LONG compared to my pool.  I think I have to do 7 laps to equal 100 m instead of 4.  Today i had a nice ride with the Try Sports peeps- there were only 4 of us but that was good for my first outing with them.  We did nearly 18 miles and it felt pretty good.  I ran a 5k afterward and it was pretty good.  Definately not an easy transition for the quad muscles but Garmin said I was going at a pretty good pace so I was happy- it felt slower but then again I havent run in a week or so either.  Its all coming together for the first tri next weekend.

Have a great weekend- Sending positive vibes to ya Anthony!

Paula

When it comes together like that it's a great feeling, isn't it? You are obviously doing a great job. Keep up the good work!

I've been thinking about your training question, so I went back to my logs to remind myself of what I was doing my first year. It really confirmed for me that I think you will have no problem running only a couple times a week. When I started cycling, my run training took a back seat, but I didn't seem to really lose anything from my running. As a matter of fact, I PR'ed a 10K when my long run leading up to it was only 5 miles.  And that's me, a very average (at best!) runner.  You should be fine.

Just to be perfectly clear, I'm not saying running can be neglected. I'm just saying that sometimes we have to compromise a little because we are not full time triathletes and have other responsibilities, and that for you in particular, running can take a little bit of a back seat.

I would also like to suggest that you try to make one of your rides each week a good long ride. 20-30 miles or more out on the road will really do wonders for your cycling fitness and comfort and confidence on the bike. Plus, it's a blast!

Anthony

I am feeling more ready than I ever have for a big race. I will be thinking of you all for inspiration, especially around mile 7 or 8 where there is a pretty good hill, and the last mile or two!

Well done running a 5K after 18 miles on the bike! As I mentioned in your log, lots of people feel like they are running slower than they really are after they get off the bike. It's good that you got to feel what it's like before your big race next week. I am really looking forward to your big day.

Thank you! I will be using those positive vibes on Sunday

Hey everyone I had a GREAT day today! 1:59:33 which is a PR for me and I really did want to break 2 hours, so I am really happy. I have to say as well that this was not an easy course with over 850 ft of elevation gain (and loss), so I'm pretty psyched.

Thanks for the little push I got from you all in a couple of tough spots

Anthony

Glad to hear you had a great day.  I have checked the website frequently today waiting for an update!  Excellent job on the PR!!  Our group is 2 for 2 on the PR's!  Who's next???

Congrats on the race and good luck with the HIM training coming up.

I think I am going to take tomorrow off from swimming.  I have caught the "carolina crud" and feel like crap- well, just my lungs and my ever running nose.  Hopefully I can nip it in the bud and be ready for this weekend's big event with a little extra sleep and some musinex.

Have a good start to the week everyone!

Paula

Congrats, Anthony!!!  Awesome race today!! 

Awesome time, congrats on breaking a big barrier

J

Thank you very much. You have the next race, and it's your very first tri, so it's gotta be a PR You are going to do great, and I can't wait to hear about it.

Thanks again.

Are you feeling better today? You had a great ride yesterday, so hopefully you are feeling better, and didn't produce too many "snot rockets"

Anthony

Thank you! It really felt great. You should have seen the big stupid grin I had when I realized I really would break 2 hrs.

Anthony