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2007-06-11 1:08 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
PocketRocket - 2007-06-11 12:51 PM Hi guys, just got back from the weekend and read the messages. Well done to those who raced - fantastic efforts and your enthusiasm is making me more eager to get into racing. Just learnt that my employer is running a Tri (400m/12 mile/5 mile) 2 weeks before the race I plan to do at the end of July. I think I will enter it as one of my brick sessions as, provide I take it as a training event, it seems like an ideal opportunity to rehearse before my first race proper. The other good news is that its only 10 miles from where I live. I have a question - for Tris with pool swims what would you guys recommended I wear? Do I need to go and buy a Tri-suit or will swimmies with a change for the bike phase be okay? If the latter is okay would you recommend running in the bike shorts or change again at T2? My mind has been mulling this over over the weekend and I'm not sure - I could buy a suit but are the organisers likely to elt me swim in it and would you swim in it or change at T1? Sorry for the bone question...... Well done again and P it sounds like you've found a flying machine! Great stuff...
Wear what you would wear for an OWS. I wear tri short and tri top no matter what.  Bike shorts have to big a pad and you would not want to run.  Worst case swim in tight swim trunks and pull over bike shorts and take off bike shorts for the run. 


2007-06-11 1:14 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL

PocketRocket - 2007-06-11 12:51 PM Hi guys, just got back from the weekend and read the messages. Well done to those who raced - fantastic efforts and your enthusiasm is making me more eager to get into racing. Just learnt that my employer is running a Tri (400m/12 mile/5 mile) 2 weeks before the race I plan to do at the end of July. I think I will enter it as one of my brick sessions as, provide I take it as a training event, it seems like an ideal opportunity to rehearse before my first race proper. The other good news is that its only 10 miles from where I live.

Your employers tri sounds perfect for you, timing and distance wise!  I bet you'll do well.  


I have a question - for Tris with pool swims what would you guys recommended I wear? Do I need to go and buy a Tri-suit or will swimmies with a change for the bike phase be okay? If the latter is okay would you recommend running in the bike shorts or change again at T2? My mind has been mulling this over over the weekend and I'm not sure - I could buy a suit but are the organisers likely to elt me swim in it and would you swim in it or change at T1? Sorry for the bone question...... Well done again and P it sounds like you've found a flying machine! Great stuff...

For pretty much any triathlon short of an Ironman, you don't want to waste time changing shorts or any other clothes in transition.  Thus, I'd recommend you get a pair of "tri-shorts".  They have a quick drying chamois that will provide minimal padding on the bike.  You swim, bike, and run in these.  You only need one pair as you'll primarily be using these to race, not train in.  However if all my normal swimming suit or bike shorts are dirty, I sometimes wear my tri shorts for a workout.

 

 

2007-06-11 2:03 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Thanks for the advice. I think I will get a pair of Tri-shorts as this seems the best way ahead. It also gives me a chance to visit the tri shop again and drool over all of the kit!

Cheers....
2007-06-11 3:05 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Okay, Coach! Where in the world do I go from here? Been so focused on the sprint distances for so long, that I feel a bit like a fish out of water now. According to the chart you made for me, I should shoot for a 7 mile run and a 30 mile bike this week. I can handle those (as soon as my quadricep insertions just above the knees stop hurting). My swim teacher is moving to NC in August, but he will do some OWS coaching with me until then starting this week. Hadn't touched base with him in some time, and was sad to hear he is moving, but at least there's a few weeks to work on the swim. Any advice, David?? You now know my best effort is as slow as I said it would be, so clearly my engine is a bit rusty yet!
2007-06-11 3:31 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL

phoenixrising404 - 2007-06-11 3:05 PM Okay, Coach! Where in the world do I go from here? Been so focused on the sprint distances for so long, that I feel a bit like a fish out of water now. According to the chart you made for me, I should shoot for a 7 mile run and a 30 mile bike this week. I can handle those (as soon as my quadricep insertions just above the knees stop hurting). My swim teacher is moving to NC in August, but he will do some OWS coaching with me until then starting this week. Hadn't touched base with him in some time, and was sad to hear he is moving, but at least there's a few weeks to work on the swim. Any advice, David?? You now know my best effort is as slow as I said it would be, so clearly my engine is a bit rusty yet!

First of all, enjoy your success a bit and try to make the post race buzz last as long as possible.  Don't rush into training right after a race.  I know you don't have your kids this week, so you'll be tempted to train a bunch this week.  Don't over do it though.

Secondly, now that your A sprint race is over, you can focus on preparing for your next A event, your century on Sept 2nd.  This will obviously mean prioritizing your weekly long rides.  Try not to miss any of these long rides.  If you need to skip a workout, make it a run or a swim.   As I mentioned in the spreadsheet, I'd shoot for 3-4 rides a week.  1 short (10-15 mi), 1 or 2 medium rides (15-25), and a longer ride of 30+ miles.  These distances will increase slowly each week with the short and medium rides probably never going over 30 miles while your long ride building up to 70-80 miles.

Keep most of these rides at an easy Z2 pace.  If you go harder or faster than this, you risk over-training and injury because your body does not like it when you increase duration and intensity at the same time. 

Obviously, you should continue to swim and run.  What I like to do is to try to fit my long run in mid week (say Wed AM) and this permits me to do 2 rides on the weekend when I have more time.  I'll do my longest ride on Sat. AM, and then do a medium ride on Sun at nice easy pace.  This could work well for you too if you could schedule it.

Does this help at all?   

 

2007-06-11 3:52 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Thanks! It actually helps a bunch! Fortunately it is nice weather so all is a GO! The buzz is wearing off a bit, unfortunately.......I can see why these get addictive!


2007-06-12 12:47 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Good day all. Sorry, I have been out on vacation with my ArmySon. He is back in Germany and I am back to training.
I see I have several pages of posts to catch up on.
I have a question for y'all:
I had an opportunity to buy a wet suit at a thrift store for $20.00. I tried it on in the store. I about had a heart attack trying to get it off (thoughts of running around in a wet suit trying to find my wife somewhere in the store were dancing through my mind). Finally after the fear subsided, and much prayer, I got it off. I went ahead and bought it, because of the price, nothing apparently wrong with it. Question is, how do I know if it fits right? I never had one of these things on before in my life.

Thanks,
DaveII
2007-06-12 12:50 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
I went to Barnes and Noble last night to get the Joel Friel book David recommended, but it is apparently out of print! Came home with some treasures anyway, including the New York City Ballet Workout by Peter Martins. Was up late making photo copies of the beautiful dancers demonstrating the stretches and strength training exercises to pin up on my office hall wall. The plan is to do a few every day between patients, during lunch, etc. I used to have a friend named Victor who was going to chiropractic college with me and would literally pick me up to hug me. He was absolutely gorgeous. And he died of AIDS. I asked him to help me in spirit to follow through with these exercises as I can't imagine a better body than that of a ballet dancer!!! So if you see some weird stuff on my log, that's what I'm up to!

Also found a book called Working Out, Working Within, the Tao of Inner Fitness Through Sports and Exercise. Here is a quote: "When you see loss with an internal shift in consciousness, it opens your heart to a more compassionate, understanding approach to loss or failure; we've been told from birth that failure is an abomination, to be avoided at all cost. Traditionally, athletes and exercise enthusiasts become devastated in the wake of 'undesirable' results. When you adopt a more natural, softer Tao approach to adversity, you cease to abuse yourself emotionally and create an inner environment where self-forgiveness can open the door for exploration into the sea of your vast potential. Accepting failure as a necessary aspect to success enables you to try and try again, learning from each setback until you master the task. Using a metaphor from nature, remember that because of the adverse conditions in a forest, a tree is forced to push its way upward to great heights. Times of adversity, in all of life, are periods of great blossoming as a person and as an athlete."

And here is my debut as a triathlete on the Sports page of the LaCrosse Tribune! That's me circled. Best I can do for a pic as I went there alone and all the folks I knew there were busy competing, too!



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2007-06-12 1:14 PM
in reply to: #801094

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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Pene congratulations on the pub!
I agree that we can learn a lot from all sorts of disciplines. Thinking out of the box can yield great results, keeps us searching and learning.
2007-06-12 1:16 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL

armydad - 2007-06-12 12:47 PM Good day all. Sorry, I have been out on vacation with my ArmySon. He is back in Germany and I am back to training. I see I have several pages of posts to catch up on. I have a question for y'all: I had an opportunity to buy a wet suit at a thrift store for $20.00. I tried it on in the store. I about had a heart attack trying to get it off (thoughts of running around in a wet suit trying to find my wife somewhere in the store were dancing through my mind). Finally after the fear subsided, and much prayer, I got it off. I went ahead and bought it, because of the price, nothing apparently wrong with it. Question is, how do I know if it fits right? I never had one of these things on before in my life. Thanks, DaveII

Dave, glad you're back and I hope you had a good time with your son. 

That's a funny story about your wetsuit.  Obviously, the best way to determine the fit is to give it a try in a lake or even a pool (if you want to look silly!)  I know it's really hot here in North Texas, but you could still do a short 10-20 minute trial swim in it at a lake some morning before it gets in the 90s!

Be sure it's not too tight or too loose in the neck area.  Mine is too tight and it actually rubs my skin raw even with a ton of BodyGlide on.  (I've resorted to a nice big waterproof bandage over my neck, and that actually worked pretty good at Alcatraz)  

Also, you don't want it too tight in the shoulder area as this will restrict your arm movement and tire you out quicker.  Unfortunately, mine is this way also.  I can minimize this effect by being sure to pull the suit up as high as I can; a good idea in general I think.

In case you didn't know, wetsuits are designed to allow a minimal amount of water inside and then your body will heat that water and it will insulate you from the colder water outside the suit.

See you at the Total Triathlon Night at REI on Thursday.  I'll probably be showing off wearing my red Alcatraz visor.

David 

2007-06-12 1:20 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
David, thanks for the advice. I don't live too far from Lake Ray Hubbard so, maybe some Saturday I can sneak off early and give it a try. I will look for your visor on Thursday. Congratulations!


2007-06-12 1:51 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL

phoenixrising404 - 2007-06-12 12:50 PM And here is my debut as a triathlete on the Sports page of the LaCrosse Tribune! That's me circled. Best I can do for a pic as I went there alone and all the folks I knew there were busy competing, too!

That's awesome that you made the sports page of your newspaper.  You should definitely keep that for posterity sake. 

I'm assuming you meant the "Going Long" book for Ironman training right? Here is the AddAll search results for this book.

2007-06-12 5:05 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Wow! Didn't know there was a site like that--thanks. But actually, I was looking for the Triathlon training "Bible" by Friel--don't know the exact title. What do you think of that book? Heard it was very technical, but is one of THE books to get??? He has a swimming book, too? Or am I confused?

Armydad--I actually bought TWO wetsuits because I didn't know what I was doing. The first one I got on sale in January and it is sleeveless and HURTS my throat and is too cold for training sooner than June. The other one is a size bigger (swallowing pride here) but it fits so much better and is a different brand and a full. Go try a bunch on at a store and don't buy one that day--just go try them all on! That's my advice. You will be having a tough enough time swimming to have to deal with a bad fit!!! Even if it was a bargain
2007-06-12 5:46 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
remember wetsuits are not designed to fit well on land.  They are designed for use in water so they are uncomfortable any other time.
2007-06-13 7:41 AM
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David--okay, so Friel has several books--I do plan to get his Going Long book, and likely the Bible as well--what do you think of his co-authored book about the Paleo Diet for Athletes???? I'm just not a very good carnivore, unfortunately. My body tends to crave more of a pseudo-vegetarian type diet. Not really into big juicy steaks and the like. I do eat hamburger as it seems to digest faster. Those steaks just sort of sit there in my gut for three days and drive me nuts. But if it's the way to go........can you give us some guidance about general triathlete dietary guidlines, not just for pre-race? I have a lot of difficulty getting enough protein in. But I keep gaining muscle anyway, so I must be doing something right??? I ordered a digital caliper and it should be here soon. Don't really relish knowing exactly what my BF % truly is, but....."what gets measured generally improves"! And the bioimpedance scale is so completely WRONG for me--it has me way up there in BF--but a lot of muscle generally interferes with a true reading for those scales, I'm told.....
2007-06-13 8:08 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Ken, well if wetsuits aren't supposed to fit well on land, I may have found the perfect suit. It isn't a full length model, long sleeves, but short legs. My first OWS sprint should be in Austin in October, dumb question: will I need one then? are there some races that require them? And last but not least, will it state that fact on the registration page?

Pene, I got the Training Bible off of Amazon, it is a lot to digest, but looks like good info.

Thanks all, have a great day!


2007-06-13 8:40 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
I have been reading about speed work and wanted to hear what some of you do. I was wondering if there were different benefits between say 200 X 8 with 100 cool down in between or 400 X 4 with 100 or 200 in between. Any ideas or comments will be appreciated. I am trying to maximize my efforts! thanks. Kevin
2007-06-13 9:13 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
I have a really important question.







Anyone want to give me a massage? Daddy's legs are tired.
2007-06-13 9:24 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
armydad - 2007-06-13 8:08 AM Ken, well if wetsuits aren't supposed to fit well on land, I may have found the perfect suit. It isn't a full length model, long sleeves, but short legs. My first OWS sprint should be in Austin in October, dumb question: will I need one then? are there some races that require them? And last but not least, will it state that fact on the registration page? Pene, I got the Training Bible off of Amazon, it is a lot to digest, but looks like good info. Thanks all, have a great day!
Sounds like the suit is a scuba suit.  Tri wetsuits have full legs to make your legs more buoyant.  With a scuba suit I would immage that your torso will be more bouyant than your legs causing more drag, but I could be wrong.  Wetsuits are never required, it is a personal preferance.  Dave could have done the Escape from Alcatraz in 57 deg water if he wanted but that would be extremely cold.  I would recommend using one if the race is wetsuit legal.  My guess is the website will have water conditions listed as the race gets closer and if it is below 78 you can wear one as long as the race director allows it.  My race on Sunday and my oly next month do not allow wetsuits no matter what the temp.  Apparantly the race director does not like them.  He said you could wear one but had to wear it on the bike and run also.  He claims the water was over 78 but I really doubt it with all the rain we got.  For your race you might want to post the question on the texas forumn and see who did the race last year if suits were allow.  My guess is yes.  I was in Austin over memorial day it the water was around 70 so I would image the same temp in October but I am not expert.  Just curious, how tall, how much do you weigh?  I have a suit I might be willing to lend you, depending on what I have planned, but it is a large.  It says it fits 5'10" - 6'5" and 190-225lbs.  Hope this helps.
2007-06-13 9:29 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
kevdia - 2007-06-13 8:40 AM I have been reading about speed work and wanted to hear what some of you do. I was wondering if there were different benefits between say 200 X 8 with 100 cool down in between or 400 X 4 with 100 or 200 in between. Any ideas or comments will be appreciated. I am trying to maximize my efforts! thanks. Kevin
I am not an expert but I would think there is a difference even though the distance is the same but might not be that noticable as if you did less repeats and even longer distances.  Granted both 400 and 200's are both sprints 200's are closer to all out sprint and 400's you will run alittle slower and have a slower hr.  But that is just my guess.  Dave might know more.
2007-06-13 9:55 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL

phoenixrising404 - 2007-06-13 7:41 AM David--okay, so Friel has several books--I do plan to get his Going Long book, and likely the Bible as well--what do you think of his co-authored book about the Paleo Diet for Athletes????

You'll find some overlap between Going Long and the bible book.  Both are good however.  Obviously, Going Long is targeted specifically towards people training for IMs, but once you understand some of the basic principles (you already do, Pene) then you can apply it to any distance race.  I haven't read his Paleo Diet book, but I'm sure it's good too.  I'm familiar with the basics of the Paleo Diet and it seems pretty sound.  Here is a short article I found on it.

can you give us some guidance about general triathlete dietary guidlines, not just for pre-race?

First of all, I'll tell you up front that I'm a hypocrite b/c I struggle to follow this advice, but I believe its important and I try my best to do it.

Some of the basic advice you hear everywhere is valid for triathletes as well.  Obviously, you should minimize "bad" fat (saturated and trans fat).  Eat lots of veggies and fruit.  Minimize processed foods and refined sugar.  Eat 5-6 small meals instead of 2-3 big ones.  Don't skip breakfast.

However, as endurance athletes, we need even more carbohydrates that a sedentary person.  I've seen recommendations as high as 50-60% (instead of the normal 40%) of all our calories should come from carbs.   I wouldn't worry about the exact percentage, just be sure to to go on a low carb diet while your training!  We need energy!

Also, it is VERY important to know that all carbohydrates are not created equal.  High Glycemic Index (GI) carbs should primarly be consumed right after a tough workout when they are most likely to replenish the depleted glycogen in the muscles and not stored as fat.  If you consume high GI carbs at other times, the resulting spike in insulin often results in the carbs being stored as fat instead of in the muscles or liver.  Thus, most of your carbs should be low GI.  One of the best articles I've found on this is here

Pene, I sometimes have difficulty eating enough protein also.  I try to supplement my protein intake with shakes made with whey protein powder.  Protein is very important for muscle rebuilding, for helping you feel full, and for "time releasing" carbs as mentioned in the above article.

This is probably more than enough for now, but let's keep talking about nutrition b/c its so important!

 



2007-06-13 10:22 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL

kproudfoot - 2007-06-13 9:29 AM
kevdia - 2007-06-13 8:40 AM I have been reading about speed work and wanted to hear what some of you do. I was wondering if there were different benefits between say 200 X 8 with 100 cool down in between or 400 X 4 with 100 or 200 in between. Any ideas or comments will be appreciated. I am trying to maximize my efforts! thanks. Kevin
I am not an expert but I would think there is a difference even though the distance is the same but might not be that noticable as if you did less repeats and even longer distances. Granted both 400 and 200's are both sprints 200's are closer to all out sprint and 400's you will run alittle slower and have a slower hr. But that is just my guess. Dave might know more.

I'm not an expert either, but I'll give my 2 cents:

There definitely is a difference and Ken stated it: 200s are a sprint where 400s are a little more controlled. I'd prefer 400s for sprint triathlon training b/c despite the name, you'll probably never actually be sprinting (at anywhere close to 200 pace) in a sprint triathlon! Also, since 400s are done at close to your lactate threshold pace, you'll be improving your lactate tolerance and buffering which is important in shorter triathlons.

This article explains it better than I can.



Edited by dgillen 2007-06-13 10:24 AM
2007-06-13 11:33 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
thanks for all the replies!
2007-06-13 11:57 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Thanks Ken....scuba suit vs. wetsuit you learn something new everyday. I think your suit would be a little big, the gene pool I swim in is a little shorter than that at about 5'8". Thanks anyway.
2007-06-13 12:58 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
armydad - 2007-06-13 11:57 AM Thanks Ken....scuba suit vs. wetsuit you learn something new everyday. I think your suit would be a little big, the gene pool I swim in is a little shorter than that at about 5'8". Thanks anyway.
Sorry it won't work out for you.  Mine is actually a little short for me since I am 6'7" but the larger size would not have fit my weight and I never want it to.  The scuba suit will work, I think quite a few people use them.  The big difference from what I can tell are the shoulders are more restrictive since you don't really use your arms to scuba dive and the buoyance once be as good.  From what I have heard if you use a tri wetsuit to scuba dive you acutally need some kind of weight to counteract the bouyance.
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