Asphalt Junkies CLOSED AND GETTING OUR FIX (Page 140)

That is hilarious!  I Seriously almost spit my cereal out while reading this.

There I was rading along to catch up with the posts I hadn't read since yesterday and WHAM!!!!!  There it was!

It's great to have you back in the group and the new avatar is pretty awesome too.  BTW, what is that a 2-3 inch vertical jump you've got there?

That's correct Jeff.  The distance was supposed to be a little bit shorter but I was at my sisters and I added a little bit to the run than planned intentionally.  (I had planned 2 miles.)  You are also correct on the reasons for the break in period.  The break is not needed (at least for me) for the shoes because they are so supple and flexible that they feel as if they have been run 300 miles in. 

The break is need to adapt to the new running form I am moving toward.  The drop in the particular shoe I am wearing is 3mm and it is a noticeable difference from what I have been using for the past year.  The Brooks Adrenaline 12 has a drop from heel to toe of 12.8mm.  Not just a little drop!  So the adaptive time could be longer had I not been trying to change my running form to a more forward, mid-foot strike already.  The Newtons seem to be pushing me that direction with less conscious awareness required.  I am still being very intentional about running forward during this break in period and I will continue to go shorter distances until I fell I have made the change fully.

The down side to Newton shoes is the price tag.  However, the price should be offset by the additional miles that the seem to be much higher due to the change in running form.  Newton  says that 700 miles in a pair in not unusual.  I will obviously see about how that one works out myself. 

Well, good luck with them either way.  I ran in them for a year and really liked the way they felt, until I got severe plantar fascitis and was sidelined from running for 6 months.  I obviously didn't do it the right way.  You seem to be taking the right approach.

I am curious however why you are changing your running form/shoes/etc. before running Boston.  I know you are just a solid bad-a$$, and nothing will slow you down, but that would probably be a nightmare for me.

Jonathan, awesome avatar!!! 

I thought that little swatch of color on the top tube was reminiscent of a Trek.  I must say that I'm very, very happy with your choice of mtn bike.  Unless someone has an extra $1k to step up to the full suspension of the Superfly 100, then I would surely recommend the hardtail 29er.

You, my friend, have a killer mtn bike!!!

Exactly how new are you to mtn biking?  You made a comment that leads me to think you are a brand new babe to the sport.  I think that whenever someone is first introduced to the sport that the difficulty can be deflating.  I feel a particular burden for newbies, they need encouragement.  I hated mtn biking after my first experience with it and now love it.  I'm very glad I persisted long enough to begin to enjoy it, and I'm sure with a bike like yours you will too (because your wife will kill you if you never use it!!)

Yeah, I'm pretty new to mountain biking.  Let's just say that I used to mountain bike a lot, but that was back in high school, about 15 years ago now.  Like, I said, I'm pretty beat up from it so far, but I'm trying not to do too many stupid things.  I always fall to the left too...my left hip is so bruised and I have so many charlie-horses in that quad that I can't sleep on my left side at all.

I couldn't pass up the deal on this bike, although I'm riding with guys who all have full-suspension and the trails are completely root-covered....part of me wishes during the rides that I had that suspension to save my lower back.  My legs are constantly burning from keeping my butt just off the saddle.

The two things that I have the most difficulty with so far is making right turns and going up steep hills without the front end coming up.  I find myself completely leaned over with my face inches from the bars just trying to keep the wheel down.

Definitely a huge learning curve, but it's a blast!

I have now run 5 miles in them over 2 runs and they seem to be working well so far...........As much as 5 miles over 2 runs can actually tell you.  I am using the shoes to combat the plantar fasciitis  that I have developed myself.  I figure the less drop and more area that the impact will be dispersed will provide less impact to my heel thereby reducing the affects of my current condition. 

The reason for changing my running form is solely because I feel I need to in order t be able to keep running healthy.  The marathon isn't really a concern to me.  It is 5 and half months away which seems to be far enough in the distance that re-training myself shouldn't be an issue.  I hope to be able to PR another marathon at Boston but more importantly I am looking beyond that race to a possible IM the following year and I would like to have a really strong running base and remain healthy for a full year of base building and fitness leading up to the more important IM, if I chose to do it.  I would really like to be able to lay down a really solid IM for my first time out.  Nothing ridiculous, just a solid time.

One way to ensure a great experience is to meet both you and Jonathon while I'm over there.  We have to figure that out for sure. 

I put a post in the main forum about general Boston Marathon questions and someone suggested staying out of town and taking the train in on race morning and then back out after the race.  What are your thoughts about doing something like that?

Thanks for the input Jeff.  I'm going to respond in the same order.

I really don't mind keeping my feet clipped in right now.  You are correct, most of them have been slow speed tip-overs.  In fact, the only time I was moving at all was when the right side end cap of my handle bar caught a tree and I ate it hard.  I was definitely not used to the wider bars coming straight from road cycling.  I think keeping my feet clipped in is also making me push thru things that I normally wouldn't if my feet were not clipped in.  My issue is that my rear tire keeps slipping going up-hill.  When I burn out like that, sometimes I take two pedal strokes and all of a sudden I'm dead stopped.

I think you're right.  I'm glad I stuck with a hard tail...it's lighter and faster on the smooth terrain, there's no question about that at all.  I will definitely try lowering my tire pressure.  That may be one of my major problems.

The reason I keep riding just hovering the seat is because if I don't keep the weight on the seat, my wheel will just slip all over the place, especially going up hill.  If my tires are wet and I am climbing large loose rocks or roots, forget it trying to stand up.  Maybe because I'm in too granny of a gear?

I definitely am out of the saddle going down hills.  I will try standing while cornering too.  It's just not natural because it's unstable on a road bike....but I'll definitely try it.  

I'll see if I can get you guys some pictures of the trails I've been riding.  It's a beautiful place.  I just never stop and take time to take it in.

Or I'll just drop you off at the start and you can run into town.

I honestly have no idea how to combat plantar fascitis besides the way that I had to do it.  A lot of rolling your feet on a baseball and massaging the parts that hurt really bad.  It's brutal, but works.  I also had my feet taped up on occasion.  It's a nasty thing to have to battle.  Be glad you have time.

Oh you'll meet us both, of that I'm positive.  In terms of how to work things out for the race, I am getting input from my friends around here who do it every year.  I may rent a hotel room so you have a place to shower/recover afterwards.  We'll get you to the start line and then back out again.  The train could be a good option, or the T (Boston's subway) to a local station out of town.  We'll figure it out though.

One thing to remember about Boston is that though it is well known for Heartbreak Hill at mile 20, it is a downhill course, so the beating on your legs can be different than a lot of marathons. 

I actually have two other friends I'd like to help out as well - one is from a previous BT mentor group and lives in Washington State, the other is the guy who ran the Timberman relay with me.  All three of you ran very similar qualifying times.  If it's ok with you to meet a few other guys, we'll definitely make sure all you have to worry about is having an amazing race, and not the semantics of how to get around and the mundane details.

And of course you are absolutely welcome to come a few days early or stay a few days later.

Too much sadness lately.  I'm the wet blanket of the Junkie group.  My German Shepard died this evening.  We think she had a heart attack.  One moment she's running around like an idiot and the next she's on the ground.  It was that sudden.  She was only 9 years old.  This sucks. 

That does just suck Tracy.  Sorry to hear.  I'm sure your dog is a lot more than "just" a pet, especially during these already deeply sad times for you.  I gave my dog a special hug for you this morning after reading this.

Tracy I'm very sorry to hear about your dog. I can't imagine how you must be feeling after everything else that you've already been through but know that we are all thinking about you.

Your bike should have come equipped with Bontrager 29-2 Team Issue tires, is that right?

These should have great traction in all conditions except fairly wet.  I don't have trouble with traction, so I'm wondering what you're doing differently, or what I'm doing differently.  I do a lot of seated climbing, in fact I stay seated for all climbs except at the moment I'm going over a root or rock. 

With the bike fit correct I find that I can climb anything in the saddle without traction issues.  (and I have the 29-1 tires...smaller tread).  If the saddle setback is too far, then your CG is too far back and your front tire wants to rise up.  If the CG is too far forward the rear wheel gets light and might want to slip.  If you are seated while climbing, are you at or above 90rpm?  That tends to have a fairly smooth power application without power spikes that would break the tire's traction.   If you are standing up, it's the opposite and you want about 70rpm or else your gearing has too much torque and you break the wheel loose with your downstroke (too much granny as you suggested).

And if the tires are inflated too high your contact patch is very small and can't deform to hard surfaces.  Traction goes from terrible to great simply be deflating the tires.

And I learned a long time ago that mtn biking gets easier with speed...fast riders forget how hard it is for slow riders.  If you find a fast rider and have them follow you, they have all sorts of trouble with the terrain!  As you get faster, you maintain more momentum over this terrain you are describing and you don't have to put down so much power to the pedals to make it up some of these climbs when you are moving 50% faster.

Mtn biking is a bit like playing a game while getting a good bike workout.  You get to try a variety of skill challenges as you go.  Have fun.

Yup, the tires are 29 x 2.1 team issue.  It's definitely not really muddy or anything.

On bike fit...I honestly have no experience with setting up a mountain bike to fit.  I took my saddle height from my road bike, subtracted almost an inch, set it up to that.  Then my saddle setback I left the same. 

I agree that it's easier with speed....especially going down hill.  Over the past week or two, I have just tried to trust that the bike will roll over almost anything and let it do it's thing.

The tricky part about going uphill when I have to turn is that my front wheel will track around a 6-10" tall rock, but then I have to turn and my back wheel will run into it...and sort of get stuck. 

All in all, I think all of my issue have a lot to do with experience and getting to know the bike in general.  I feel a lot better than I did the first time out...so at least I'm gaining confidence.

Another thing...how much pressure do you keep your fork at?

Well, my bike came equipped with a RockShox SID.  They put pressure charts right on the forks.  You find your weight as a rider and there are your positive and negative air pressure settings right there.  And I like those default settings they publish, so I'm done.

Yours has a Fox right?  I have 1 bike with a Fox fork, but never used it....it was set up for my son and as a spare bike so I never read the manual on how to set it up.

But the universal guideline is that when you sit on the bike in your riding position (stationary), the fork should compress 20% of it's total travel.

Dirk, regarding PF...  Please take all of these statements as my best attempt to help a friend avoid suffering the way I have in the past... I've learned a lot, but unfortunately many injuries present themselves in unique ways to different people.

I was lucky in that my PF wasn't a running issue.  It wasn't worsened by my running and wasn't a result of running.  It was my daily activities and the shoes I wore that gave rise to my PF.

My solution was my Superfeet insoles, the 3/4 length plastic ones designed for dress shoes.  They are healing a friend of mine as we speak.  Please get these and wear them at all times during your work day.

The fascia, is your arch.  When your weight is on your toes it puts more strain on the fascia.  In my case, moving to a forefoot running style made it much worse.  I actually found it improved somewhat when I over emphasized my heel strike.  My PF wasn't aggravated by heel landing, it was aggravated by straining the connection point by weighting my forefoot--I felt less pain at the moment while walking/running on my toes, but far more pain the next day as a result.

The Strassbourg Sock is something I never used, but should have. 

Here's a very important lesson I learned!!!!  Ever walked barefoot in the sand?  Perhaps on your recent trip to the beach?  It hurt your PF didn't it???  Know why?  Your weight on your heel sinks it in to the sand and then as you transition your weight forward the spot just in front of your heel pushes down on the ridge of sand that was raised up when your heel sank.

This same thing happens in miniature with very soft shoes.  Also with very soft insoles.  And just take a look at an old worn out pair of running shoes...often your weight has created a depression in the heel of the midsole as well as the insole.  This creates a slightly raised ridge right under your PF pain.

So you may find your Newtons feel better for this reason.  But so would removing your insolves from an old pair of running shoes and wearing them around that way (not necessarily running in them).

And did I mention those Superfeet insolves???? 

I'll take all the advice I can get Jeff, so there will be no chance I would take any offense.

I feel fairly confident that my PF is likely a running issue.  It has been something that has been coming on for some time.  I remember back in February taking a week or so off to let some of the symptoms mend themselves.  As the season progressed toward my HIM's I allowed the symptoms to get worse but not really out of control.  It took me being honest with myself about what was going on after the season ended to begin to treat it. 

Right now I am trying to give some thought to what you are saying about landing on your forefoot.  When I have the pain, I tend to walk and land with my toes hitting first (this isn't a way I run at all) and it seems to alleviate the pain while walking.  What I am wondering is if that is actually irritating the PF, as you experienced. 

I did walk barefoot in the sand a couple of weeks ago and I kind of remember altering the way I would lead off of my toes by kind of rotating my heel outward so that my big toe wouldn't pull on the PF any more than it had to.  I actually remember it feeling kind of good to let my foot rest in the sand and kind of stretch the arch.  It seemed to allow most of my weight to rest in the arch and off of my heel and toes.

I am going to examine my older running shoes and try to take the insoles out and walk in them.  I have also bought a pair of insoles with arch support to allow that to kind of stretch my plantar fascia out throughout the day.  They are not Superfeet but if they work out I may look at some Superfeet.  The only thing is I wear work boots all day and I'm not sure how they would work outside of dress type shoes.

The things I have been doing to work on my PF is stretching a lot more.  Stretching my legs, hips, ankles and pretty much everything below the waist.  I have been using a hard ball to roll my foot on to get rid of any scar tissue, as Jonathon has done.  I also try to stretch the plantar fascia specifically.  I will try to do a little more of a heel strike tonight over a short run and see how that feels.

The common factor to all of this PF may be when I switched running shoes from the Mizuno Wave Inspires to the Brooks Adrenalines.  The problem took a while to crop up after the switch but then that would be expected (I think).

The 'dress shoe' type of Superfeet I have would actually work great in a pair of work boots assuming there is enough room in them for the extra material. 

I couldn't get the athletic shoe style superfeet insoles to work well in my hiking boots.  They are too much thicker than the original insoles for them to fit me and work right in anything I owned.  I'd have to buy shoes a size larger for them to fit right, but those 3/4 inserts seemed to take less room in all shoes than the athletic insoles did because they don't have that 1/8" layer of foam.

Rolling the foot on a tennis ball (or any ball) is great.  So is taking off your shoes and grabbing things with your toes.  The typical suggestion is to lay out a towel on the floor and start with your foot on the end of the towel and to pull the towel all the way to you using your toes.

For stretching, there are 2 things I did that worked well together.  First is to stretch the calves.  Yep, there's some type of connection there...and then to stretch the arch directly by sitting on heels (on the knees) with the toes curled up bending them back.

I also would take my shoes off a lot and massage the sore spot.

I even found that sitting with only the weight of my feet on the floor would hurt my PF when my shoes were on.  I began to slip them off when at my desk and that helped a lot.

You can't easily pull work boots on and off, so I know that won't work.  But the right insoles should do wonders as will finding shoes and a running style that don't increase the strain.

Oh, Tracy!  I'm so sorry.  You've been through so much lately.  Hang in there.  We're all thinking of you.

I gotcha.  Although...when I get on the bike, it compresses and then releases differently it seems like every time.  I also have an adjustment on the bottom of the forks and a lock-out on the top right fork.  There's a lot to it.  I have to spend some time on it.  I have some boards I'm going to set up in the road to ride over so I can duplicate the test each time.  Just gotta take the time to do it.  Spent this evening working on our deck.  Ended up having to rip out all the old joists and redo all the flashing.  What a pain.  Hope everyone else's night was eventful.

Kinda stupid question.  I've had problems with my right shoe being a bit tight since I've been running.  I finally ordered shoes a half size up, and the right foot fits perfectly but the left is loose.  I usually buy aftermarket insoles and replace the ones in the running shoes.  Is it ok to just add the new insoles on the left foot which I assume would make it fit right?

No wisecracks from the peanut gallery, I know that I'm a little slow...