GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 146)

I just found the photos Kasia - if you go to the Ford Ironman St George site and under 'Store' you can select photos which takes you to the photographer site and you have to select the race again and then put Steve's 965 # in.  

My favorite pictures are the one's that SteveB references above.   REALLY cool.  

KASIA -

Using my peerless, fearless reasonong, 12.5 is dandy -- exactly .5 beyond the distance required for the race. BONUS!

Almost always, sitting on a couch will contribute to legs feeling stronger -- consider it passive recovery! But seriously, sometimes that is what it takes -- just plain and pure rest. I've come to learn that feeling fatigued, or flat, or clunky, or any of those perjorative terms, doesn't necessarily have anything to do with any previous workload; it just happens when it happens, is all. So, today....tomorrow....everything will be right again!

Ver fine job on your part rationaluizing the kerfuffel with the weeks, and by that I mean figuring that you now have another week between the sprint and the oly. And, really, I think that will prove very valuable for you. Just plain and simple, having that extra week will help a lot. Period.

So, it's all good! Finally, I still figure you're in good shape. You'e got rugby under your belt, plus your snowboarding (and skiing?). I think you have a decent athletic base, and while it is not truly a swimbikerun base, it has to count for quite a bit. At the very least, it's a wellspring to draw from, mentally as well as physically. (Where are you at now in terms of runs - how many/week, how long?)

STEVE -

"The Idiot"? I'm supposed to view you as an idiot? I don't THINK so!

(But if you're an idiot, then I'm a chowderhead.....and that might help Denise keep us straight!)

Okay, onwards.....

Hey Kasia - You are a rugby player? How'd I miss that? I played in college - I was a Flanker for 4 years!  Ahhh the songs are coming back to me, and they can't be repeated here!

Steve A - you are not an idiot, because if you are, you are amongst a village of them here at BT!    Good luck finding your next race!

Steve B- It is Chowdah head if you are from New England. Well, at least if you are from Maine.  And you are not one

Cheers,

Mandy

STEVE again -

While Maggie and others who love you might question your sanity, I do not. In fact, it is a very good sign that you are already thinking about the next iron-distance race. Not only does it mean that your body didn't get shredded at SG, but more importantly it means that your confidence and enthusiasm and love for what happened at SG ruled the day. That is, you were neither mentally nor emotionally devastated by the day. Scores of people get eviscerated at any given iron, and that can range from elites who didn't manage sub-9:30 to folks who just flat out didn't make the swim cutoff. So, from my perspective, just the fact that you want to do another is a clear sign that you came out of SG strong in ways that you might not even fully yet recognize. Even more important is that you feel this way with the benefit of a few days of hindsight. It is true that many particpipants line up the next morning to sign up for next year's race, but for many it's something that they regret the next day, or the next week, or the next month. ("Oh, my....it seemed like such a good idea at the time!")

Oops. I just realized that I replied to my last post to you rather than your post to me....so I now have to hope I remember all that you asked. Hmmmm.....

The timeline, I think, is very good. It IS Vineman 70.3 on July 18, and not Full Vineman on July 31, yes? (If it's the full, then I'll change my thought about the timeline being fine....and I might just agree with the Idiot designation! )

IMSG on May 1......then 11 weeks and a day until Vineman 70.3.....then either 16 or 17 weeks until Silverman. That sounds great!! Lots of time between for both recovery and a subsequent Build. (I think Friel presents a similar scenario in one of his hypothetical case studies in his Training Bible, and i will track that down later to check.)

If you think about it, people who qualify for Kona have a shorter gap between their qualifier and Kona than you have between SG and Silverman. Kona is on about Oct. 10 or 17, and there is (and these are rough) Couer d'Alene on June 27, Lake Placid on July 25, Louisville and Canada both on Aug 29, and Wisconsin on Sept 12. You are in a perfect position to do two 140.6s this year, just by virtue of having SG so early on. If your spirit is willing (oh, yeah -- body too), then go for it! You have pre-Vineman to work on some speed items as well as nutrition, and then from there to Silverman to refine it back over to, uh, twice the distance of Vineman. (Piece of cake! [?])

I'm saying Silverman because right off the top of my head I can't think of any other western iron-distance that late in the year*. The only other late ones are Beach2Battleship (NC) on Nov 14, and Great Floridian maybe the previous weekend. (And if you think G.F. might be good to do, let me know and we can talk about some of the downsides. It's a great race, but in the wrong conditions, which happened last year, it is a very, very wicked race!)

Silverman has a fantastic reputation for a sensationally well-run race. (Go do a search at slowtwitch to see all the raves about it.) (Note: I haven't read about it on slowtwitch for a year or two, so if they had a clunker last year I might not know about it.) The iron is quite tough, especially the bike.....but I'm not sure it's anything worse than what SG threw at you. In fact, it will be interesting to see how SG is viewed when everything shakes down from it. I wouldn't be surprised if the bike achieved "epic" status!

Silverman has been on my radar since the first year, so if you are truly thinking of doing it.......
I generally worry about the ability of my body to survive iron-training, and I am not at all as inclined to drive big distances anymore to do a race, but if you we going to be there I'd have to give it some serious thought. (Oh, yeah -- there's also the matter of training up here, what with the autumn chill and all. I can't imagine doing a 5- or 6-hour ride any time after about Oct. 15!)

I will now go back to your post and see what I might've missed. And let me know if I have answered what you asked, or if I just did one of my signature ramblings!


*There used to be an iron distance to Grand Columbian, in WA, but I think it was scrapped a year or two ago, leaving just the HIM.

MANDY -

How about "chucklehead", or "cementhead", then?

MANDY again -

I've never done a pool tri, although ANNE has. LET'S ASK ANNE! ANNE????

Thinking about it, it might be easier or harder, depending on how the lanes are set up. If they are really narrow, it might be hard to get on the feet of someone who has passed you, but not too quickly -- epsecially if there are other people you have to pass to stay with the one you're drafting behind. But if lanres are wider than normal, then passing might not be hard, and at least they would still be narrow enough so that if you are a "drifter" (such as I am), you really can't drift far at all. That's one of the advantages to that black line on the pool's bottom!


"Drift, draft, I'm just floatin' lik a raft...."

Never mind.


ANNE!! HELP!!!

STEVE once more -

A long-shot thought -- and I don't even know if you'd want to do it this way -- is to see if there are any of the "community" (I think that's what they're called) spots for IMAZ. These generally cost a pile more to enter - maybe a grand? (But not having ever considered it I don't know much about it; just kind of guessing right now!)

From what I have read, you have to say on your side of the lane - so that seems like it would make it tough to draft, right?  and they have lap counters (people who count your laps) and they stick some red thing in the water when you have 1 length left....I am going to be the dork who swims an extra 50 yards cause she didn't see the red thing

Mandy

Yeah!!!   A topic I can contribute to.  

I have done  a few pools swims - in Ottawa and in Kingston - both of them different formats.   Personally, I think doing a pool swim for a tri before doing an OWS is a good way to start to the season.   You get a little race practice along with getting some of the kinks out of the transitions.    Also, since we are swimming in pools all winter, it doesn't put us too much out of our comfort zone.  We also don't have all those OWS factors that can really slow us down - mass starts, wind and waves, poor sighting, cold water, etc.  

For both of my races we were all seeded ahead of time according to our most recent pool times for a 500 meter swim to reduce the number of people passing each other, because yes, the lanes are narrow.    However, I quickly learned that people fudge the numbers!   Kind of bugged me actually.   What kind of ego does a person have when they say it takes them 12 minutes to swim 500 when they know darn well it only takes them 9 minutes.  

Anyway, in Kingston the lanes (25 meters) were wide enough for 2 people and you each stayed in your own side of that lane and just did the required number of laps.  Really liked that set up.   That race they had the slowest people start first.  

In Ottawa it's a 50 meter pool with 5 lanes set up and they also seed you but have the fastest people start first.   Racers enter the water every 5 seconds apart and you swim up one side, down the other side, and then have to swim under the lane ropes to the next lane and carry on that way.  I didn't like it so much because I don't do flip turns and always got stuck on the ropes.  

There was a fair bit more passing in this race, but it wasn't much of a problem from what I remember.   Didn't have many people passing me because I was in one of the later groups but did manage to pass a few people.   There was never any chaos.  

Hope that helps.    

So I know SteveA and SteveB have discussed sports drinks and maybe some of you other guys have as well...Well for all of your entertainment I'm mid cycle of mind screwing myself trying to pick one to try and see how it goes...

Well I know SteveB uses HEED and has had good results. Others around here in the biking world use it and like it.

SteveA uses EFS.

So the eng-ina-neer (engineer) in me decides lets compare what HEED, EFS, Accelerade, etc all have in them. Now, with my recent cramping I am paying attention to electrolyte content. Confusion ensues.

So the literate  or computer savvy or bored out of his gourd engineer in me says Excel! As in Microsoft Excel. So now I have a nice spreadsheet comparing them all and I'm about back to where I started. Confused as hell and not sure which to try next other than Gu Electrolyte Brew trial pack I have in front of me right now...

I'm not kidding, I spent a time on this at work today, thinking about it while commuting to work and now I just finished another 20 minutes doing research at home...all over a sports drink!

Where do I stand? Going to try and the Gu Brew and if I like the taste go with it...If not I'm back to where I started.

SHAUN -

Uh-oh. I hate to do this to you, but.....

I have recently been comparing HEED with a couple of Carb BOOM! products -- Endless Energy and their prosaically named Electrolyte Sports Drink. I am close to divulging my findings, so if we do this at the EXACT SAME MOMENT, maybe we can create a new strain of electrolyte-inspired fusion power!

What brought me to this pass, you wonder? Well, it's simply because I have really been enjoying CarbBOOM! gels, and wanted to see how far I can take that corporate ball and run with it. And to add intrigue to all of this, my LBS guy told me today that HEED and CaerbBOOM!'s E.S.D. come from the same laboratory. How's that strike you?

And a weird thing is that the new containers of HEED do not have the complete nutrition facts; specifically, there are no values for any of their electrolytes! I mentioned this to my LBS guy and he too thought it was weird -- why WOULDN'T Hammer want to strut what is in one of their flagship products? I might even call them and ask about it. It's downright odd, is what it is.

But you're right, Shaun, that all of this stuff just adds confusion onto confusion. I mentioned to Kasia a couple of weeks ago thta at the very least these products are contributing SOMETHING to you fuel-based needs, and it may not matter a huge amount the fine details. To a point I believe that, but I also feel that the longer a workout or a race goes, the more important the various components/ingredients become. And, also, the intensity of a workout may requie something different......and I guess that places us in the realm of the Dazed and Confused, huh?

I'm posting this now, but will be right back....

SHAUN again -

Before jumping to any conclusions.....and if you have a few (!!!) empty minutes.....

Go to www.infinithutrition.com, and play around with the "sliders". Gop ahead! Do it! Think about your various perceived needs at different distances, and work those sliders around. Wheeeeee!

The HSBC Triathlon series, of which Welland is part, is using Infinit as their official on-course drink this year. This will be immensely popular with many committed triathletes, as Infinit has an almost cult following. Up until recently, however, their (Infinit) focus has been on custom-made formulations, but more and more over the last year or two they have come up with more "generic" formulations. I think the two that HSBC is using are called "Run" and Ride", but I might not have that right.

A few years ago I bought a customized jug, but it seemed neither better nor worse than any of the over-the-counter products. However, a big part of me believes that if one reads their needs correctly, a customized formulation just about HAS to be better. But maybe therein lies the caveat -- reading one's needs correctly.

If you look at their different generic products, you can see how these appear when placed on the "slider" scales. Or. the site used to work this way. And the site was never intuitively easy to navigate through, but maybe they have improved things.

I really am not trying to make you crazy by throwing CarbBOOM! and Infinit into the mix, it's just something you might enjoy (??) considering as part of this whole process. It's just one of those services I provide!

[

Edited by midlifeinsanity 2010-05-25 8:42 PM

My pool tri was different than both of Anne's.  People were grouped according to similar swim times.  3-4 people in each lane doing a circle swim.  Swim 1 length staying on the right then swim back on the opposite side of the lane.  You could draft this way.  If you wanted to pass, you tickeled the foot of the person ahead of you and she had to stop at the wall and let you go by.  As you approached the wall, someone put your length count under water with a red circle if it was your last.  I was pretty amazed they could keep track of everyone in the lane, especially when there was passing.
Denise

Thanks Anne and Denise-

I will let you know how it goes - I will say I put down 12 minutes, but hope to do less.  Who knows, I haven't swam much really since October the pool is so far away. But from the info, they would rather you go over your time than under.

ANYWAY, looks like it is going to be a downpour tomorrow.  I am psyched anyway - I bet a lot of people bag it.  Not me.

Cheers,

Mandy

MANDY -

Rain is good, downpour is better! You do all sorts of weird things in snow, so riding and running in a downpout oughta be nuthin'!

I thrive on racing in the rain, and it helps further to know that most people hate it. It makes it even easier to gain back time lost on one of my signature mediocre swims!


The Sox DID end up winning last night, didn't they? If so, four straight against the Angels --- I can live with that!

YES SOX! If they start out good, they finish badly, but if they start out badly, they usually make the playoffs.  LOL

I am with you on rain!  So funny - my first marathon was in a downpour and literally 200 people bagged it.  Then last year I did the Trek Across Maine (3 day, 180 mile bike ride) and the first day was a complete downpour.  All these people took buses to skip the first leg, or skipped the whole event all together.  It wasn't bad, I mean, once you got wet, you were just wet.  The first 5 minutes was the hardest, you know, going from dry to wet.

I figure the worse the weather, the better I place (ha).

Cheers,

Mandy

I've done a couple of pool tris and they have been more along the lines of Anne's second.  Everyone seeded to time, fastest to slowest.  300 meter swims in 50 meter pool with 6 lanes.  Even number bibs on one side, odd number bibs on the other.  We started in the outside lane and swam up and back in one lane before going under the rope to the next lane, finishing up in the middle.  You can pass but it's difficult to do it midlane because you have two swimmers sharing the lane and you have to pass in the middle.  I did pass someone in my last pool race but it takes a lot out of you when they are only a tad slower and you've got to get around them.  Some swimmers take a break on the wall and allow the faster swimmers around.  It works OK if everyone is honest with their seed time but some inadvertantly use a 300 yard time (rather than meter) and some are used to swimming in 25 y/m pools and getting more of a push off the side which makes a difference if you are swimming in a 50 meter pool.

MANDY, hope you have a great race!

STEVE A, took a look at you pics from St. George!  I especially like the picture with the big smile at the finish line ... that's what it's all about!!  Hope you've enjoyed your week.

LISA

It's snowing - big blobs - too warm to stick now - we'll see what happens later.

Denise

Thanks SteveB!!!

You're NO help at all!!!!

Well other than I noticed the same thing on Hammer's website. Seems to me they'd want to share more information than they do. Makes you wonder a bit about them. Especially when you directly cross shop HEED and EFS or Gu Brew or Infinit and it it has less electrolytes and is one of the lower in total carbs...

Gu Brew looks to be my choice (that and Tri Zone now carries it for a very good price), but it only has potassium and sodium so I'll probably end up stocking up on Endurolytes to be safe.

Had another one of my most ingenious moments ever last night. Decided I was going to try and run with no socks. Instead of carrying socks or band aids in a pocket or run around a small block, I went for a longer run with no socks or band aids. The run was OK but what I though might be a blister starting was actually the top back of the shoe ripping through a layer of skin. Not painful but a bit bloody. This is a normal spot for me to get blisters or do this with new shoes....Great idea for me though!! This won't hold up my running though as long as I keep a band aid on it.

I over think my electrolyte drink and then I go and tear my foot up!! Great idea eh?

STEVE B - thanks for the reply.  Nope, I think a week out now, I'm about emotionally recovered.  Still in a bit of a Brain Cloud Funk, but I'll go for a ride this weekend, get the endorphins going, and all will be well.  I finally was able to step back and realize what from the day was a fitness issue, what was a conditions issue, and put it to bed. 

It had been nagging me that I ran so hard that last quarter mile (for show) and I had been thinking in the back of my mind, "then why not do that earlier?"  Typical ego stuff.  At the end, I made a tactical decision to walk at times where on a shorter course, I might have tried to push and risk blowing up or  injury.  And on that day, I decided finishing was more important.  Looking back, I might very well have been able to "push it" and have a slightly better looking finishing time.  But at the time, the risk/reward didn't seem worth it. 

I suspect it will be a huge motivating factor on the summer's training schedule, and if Silverman is put on the list in ink, it'll be a huge motivational factor - kind of a way to cleanse the palette.

As for Siverman vs. IMSG bike...I think they are night and day, but equally as hard.  I rode a fair portion of Silverman on the Showdown ride, and will get out there in a month or two in the heat and ride it with my friend in total.  But, from what I road, and what I've see on maps, if you were to compare these routes to boxers - Silverman is like Ali, and IMSG is like Tyson.  Silverman is going to wear you down - just long, never-ending modest climbing - constantly jabbing at you and scoring points that add up.  IMSG is going to try to knock you out in a few hard, damaging roundhouse-type climbs.  that said, there are two sections on Silverman that look to be about 5 miles long at average grades of 3-4% which will be tough. 

But, that's all on paper.  The other thing that I think I'll like more about Silverman is that the max altitude is 2500 feet - where IMSG started.  I didn't have any breathing issues at Showdown, so I'll be interested to see how a training ride goes there.

Lots to think about - good thing registration is open until mid October!

Heh, rain, schmain!  Go kick some butt!!!

Have a great race Mandy.   I was checking out the website for Tri-Maine?  that shows a bunch of races for 2010 - a Pirate one and one called The Lobsterman.   Did I read in some of the previous posts that you and possibly others are doing some of these?   

Do you have any idea how far they would be from here?   September is my birthday month and we often like to do a little trip around then.    We want to start testing some different types of recreational vehicles for the future - might be a good time to do it.    

Have fun tomorrow........