Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED (Page 15)

Wow!  Holy improvement Batman!  That's great.  Lots to improve!  I love it! 

First, I guarantee you are swimming with your feet down.  Keep your feet together and try to maintain a nice long reach in front of your shoulder.  Look at the bottom of the pool.  If you pick up your head like you are looking ahead of you when you breath, your feet will fall and you will stall.  Try that out.

Well, you better drop something, mister.  Speaking of dropping, I have to drop off your package at the post office.

Yay!! Someone moving at my speed!!

On a gooder note - I bet you and I can shave the most off our swim times by the end of the mentoring session!!

Jonathan beat me to it, but wow.  This shows how much better we can get at swimming.  Can you imagine dropping your 5k run time by 65%!

Jonathan is right that something is really dragging you down, and the feet/legs are the most likely culprit.  Think of how important aero position is on the bike.  Well water is almost 800 times denser than air.  Swimming at our level is ALL about being hydro-dynamic.  Reducing drag is #1 priority, and #2 isn't close.  Think of how much faster you go by pulling and kicking like a crazy person.  Not much I bet.  But start eliminating some of that drag, and use the 800x multiplier, and you can gain some serious speed.  And the best part is that it's also easier since you need a lot less energy.

Jerry has me visualize that I'm swimming inside a pipe, and the smaller that pipe is, the faster I go (I know it only makes sense to a point as the hand during the pull is pretty low, but you get the idea).  Keep everything in line and feet/legs as high as possible.  And the best way to get your legs to stay high is to keep your head and chest low, almost pushing them into the water.  Jonathan is right - try breathing without even picking your head up - try to breath sort of behind you in the "wake" during a rotation, if that makes sense.

By the way, this is one of the main reasons wetsuits help us mediocre swimmers so much - it gives us a very good position with all the buoyancy, particularly in the legs.

I wanted 10lbs so I was at 15 to start....then I'd lost about 5 by the time you said: "the weigh in day is...".

I don't want to say I weigh 15lbs today.  I weigh 8lbs today!  If today is the start then I'm starting at 8.

And I'm old and my brain misfires some times.

As for the 200TT I can't find results from my meet 2 Saturdays ago.  I was going to use that 200 time, even though I swam it at a 500 pace.

Monday in practice I swam one at about a 500 'feel' and it was 3:20 in a meter pool.  So that converts to 3:00 for 200 yards.

Without wanting to sound like an idiot - I had no idea it made that much difference over 200 yards. At the speed I go, that's probably like a 1-2 minute difference! Just kidding - it is much bigger than I thought though.

Yep, yards and meters are 10% different.

200 meters is 220 yards.

3:20 = 200 seconds

10% of 200 seconds is 20 seconds.

so it's 3:00 for the yards.

Trying to keep up!

Good luck weighing in everyone.

I feel like a wet blanket not playing but I'm really better off not weighing myself all the time. I weigh in a few times a year just to check where I'm at.  I tend to get obsessive about normal fluctuations in my weight and no matter what the number is I think I should 5 lbs.

I still want to focus on drinking more water but I'm not really sure how to make it a challenge and don't want to add confusion to what you all are already doing with the weight loss challenge. If anyone has any easy suggestions let me know! I did read this little bit of info on the Mayo Clinic website:

The Institute of Medicine determined that an adequate intake (AI) for men is roughly 3 liters (about 13 cups) of total beverages a day. The AI for women is 2.2 liters (about 9 cups) of total beverages a day. 

This includes soda, coffee, tea etc but of course the article recommends mostly water.

We have a great range of swim times at all different abilities! Nice job doing the time trial everyone. That is not something I look forward too .

Rest day for me today!

bswcpa - 2012-01-18 11:46 AM That's exactly what I was thinking, John! It just kills me to see Vero beat my 200 all out, leave my guts in the pool time when he "rolls onto his back to catch his breath". Ugh to me but good job to Vero!

Believe me, my 200 was everything I had too. That roll onto my back was just to get a better breath because I was swallowing half the pool at that point, and I kicked like mad during that.  I looked back at the split times for each 25 yards and they went something like 25 (seconds), 25, 26, 27, 27, 31, 27, 28 . That extra 4 seconds on the 31 second split was where that roll happened.

My typical times for 100 are around 2:30 so I wish I could do your "comfortable 1:05 for 50". I was actually hopeful for an even 4:00 on the TT.

JonnyVero - 2012-01-18 4:52 PM

bswcpa - 2012-01-18 11:46 AM That's exactly what I was thinking, John! It just kills me to see Vero beat my 200 all out, leave my guts in the pool time when he "rolls onto his back to catch his breath". Ugh to me but good job to Vero!

Believe me, my 200 was everything I had too. That roll onto my back was just to get a better breath because I was swallowing half the pool at that point, and I kicked like mad during that.  I looked back at the split times for each 25 yards and they went something like 25 (seconds), 25, 26, 27, 27, 31, 27, 28 . That extra 4 seconds on the 31 second split was where that roll happened.

My typical times for 100 are around 2:30 so I wish I could do your "comfortable 1:05 for 50". I was actually hopeful for an even 4:00 on the TT.

I was thinking the same thing as you, Brenda!  I guess we all have to start somewhere though.  I'm trying to be optimistic by looking at all of the room I have for improvement.   

abergdol - 2012-01-18 5:02 PM

JonnyVero - 2012-01-18 4:52 PM

bswcpa - 2012-01-18 11:46 AM That's exactly what I was thinking, John! It just kills me to see Vero beat my 200 all out, leave my guts in the pool time when he "rolls onto his back to catch his breath". Ugh to me but good job to Vero!

Believe me, my 200 was everything I had too. That roll onto my back was just to get a better breath because I was swallowing half the pool at that point, and I kicked like mad during that.  I looked back at the split times for each 25 yards and they went something like 25 (seconds), 25, 26, 27, 27, 31, 27, 28 . That extra 4 seconds on the 31 second split was where that roll happened.

My typical times for 100 are around 2:30 so I wish I could do your "comfortable 1:05 for 50". I was actually hopeful for an even 4:00 on the TT.

I was thinking the same thing as you, Brenda!  I guess we all have to start somewhere though.  I'm trying to be optimistic by looking at all of the room I have for improvement.   

I think most of the keys have been touched on already - keeping your feet up and being as efficient as possible. From what I've read and watched over the last couple of days the biggest rookie mistakes are dropping your feet down, not reaching far enough in front and not pushing as far back as you can. I found a couple of good explanations of this earlier on today, I'll see if I can find them again and post them up.

Wednesday Weight In:

Jonathan: 10 lbs.

Allison: 9 lbs. 

Warren: 12 lbs.

Vero: 10 lbs.

Matt: 10lbs

John: 13lbs

I'm in for the weight challenge too.  I have read that ideally you should lose any weight during base phase and keep weight consistent during build phase.  This enables you to have adequate energy for all of the threshold training and other quality work.  Makes sense to me.

Wednesday Weight In:

Jonathan: 10 lbs.

Allison: 9 lbs. 

Warren: 12 lbs.

Vero: 10 lbs.

Matt: 10lbs

John: 13lbs

Brenda: 4 lbs.

Curtis: 11 lbs

I'm officially in.  I have had a steady weight for about a year now but I would like to be down 5 more pounds.  Like Jeff said, for each pound lost it may equal up to 15 seconds of each mile running.  I'll take speed where ever I can get it.

Curtis,  I imagine there is some truth to the statement but obviously that would be for the athlete that is already near their optimum weight.  During my first marathon training regimen I lost some weight during the build phase and that only helped me during the race itself.  I did make sure I got good recovery time and post run recovery fuel.  I think these are couple of key factors in building and losing weight.

abergdol - 2012-01-18 5:02 PM

JonnyVero - 2012-01-18 4:52 PM

bswcpa - 2012-01-18 11:46 AM That's exactly what I was thinking, John! It just kills me to see Vero beat my 200 all out, leave my guts in the pool time when he "rolls onto his back to catch his breath". Ugh to me but good job to Vero!

Believe me, my 200 was everything I had too. That roll onto my back was just to get a better breath because I was swallowing half the pool at that point, and I kicked like mad during that.  I looked back at the split times for each 25 yards and they went something like 25 (seconds), 25, 26, 27, 27, 31, 27, 28 . That extra 4 seconds on the 31 second split was where that roll happened.

My typical times for 100 are around 2:30 so I wish I could do your "comfortable 1:05 for 50". I was actually hopeful for an even 4:00 on the TT.

I was thinking the same thing as you, Brenda!  I guess we all have to start somewhere though.  I'm trying to be optimistic by looking at all of the room I have for improvement.   

You all aren't giving yourselves enough credit.  You all did fine on the TT.  Obviously there is room for improvement but everyone of us can use some improvement.  Even after my TT tonight (2:35) I can see my own areas to focus on.  Now, before anyone starts thinking about how fast anyone of us are, consider my daughter is around 2:10 for her 200 TT.  And my daughter is not the fastest in her conference, she was 5th last weekend at the conference meet.  The boys are under 2 minutes for the 200.  THAT!!!!! is fast!!!

I am not the bike junkie that Jeff and Jonathon are but I would suggest keeping the same pedals or the style so you don't have to buy more cleats and/or shoes.  If you need new shoes or cleats go ahead and purchase something else but I can't recommend anything personally.  I would just love to have a TT bike this season but it isn't going to be in the budget for sometime.

Agreed.  The run focus is going to benefit you most.  But just as Jeff and Warren have said remaining injury free will be the most important thing.  You are going to have to run at what Warren called "an embarrassed to be seen in public pace" to get your run fitness started.  If you ever feel like your back is starting to cause a problem back off and allow recovery.

As far as the last race of the season I think you should wait and see how the run develops for quite a while.  The 70.3 could prove to be a little more difficult depending on how your run training goes.  Just take your time am train smart and make your decision later.

That's a good question, which I have to answer with a question.  Are you going to be wearing the same shoes for your tri bike, or will you have a dedicated pair for that bike.  Because the cleat on the bottom of your shoe will vary with different pedal styles, you want to make sure whatever pair of shoes you are wearing will have the cleat to match the pedals.  I have the same style cleat/pedal as you.  The look keo.  The pedal comes in a bunch of different forms.  I personally have the look keo 2 max carbon pedals.  They look like this.  I personally buy used pedals because they are WAY cheaper and you can always find them.  Don't pay more than $100 for them.  If you can't find them for cheap, let me know and I'll find them.

In reference to future races...when am I going to be able to tell when it's safe to sign up for a half marathon?

With your past injury history I think you should wait until you can get your running base a little higher.  It seems like you are still fighting that achilles injury and it doesn't look like your biggest runs have been more than 5 miles for some time.  I would wait and see what the ART guy can do for you and then be able to get some longer runs.  You need to have some weeks where your runs are up to around 20+ miles with long runs with a shortest distance of 8 miles.  And I think 8 miles would be the absolute minimum long run before I would run a HM and that would also require at least 3 other runs similar to a 321 plan that Warren likes to use.