stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL (Page 16)

2009-02-09 4:10 PM

in reply to: #1952158

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

MINDY -

How goeth the weekend swim(s)? Did you still have the "chops" that were apparent last weekend?

If yes, GREAT! If no, DON'T DESPAIR! I find swim gains - and swimming itself! - quite capricious, and what goes marvelously one session may be back to the same-old-same-old the next session. In my case, I had great swims on Thursday and Saturday, with nifty improvements in a couple of minor areas. But today --- nowhere to be found!!! As I live and breathe, I was doing the EXACT same technicsal execution today as I did a few days ago, but the highly-positive results just weren't there today. I figure they'll return (sort of like the old tom cat on the prowl, comes and goes as it pleases), as these sorts of improvements usually do, and hopefully sooner than later! (To use another analogy, swim improvements for me seem like scrambling up a steep scree slope - it takes a lot of effort to get somewhere, but it's SOOOO easy to slip and slide back down!)

Anyhow, I dearly hope that swimming went well for you this past weekend!

2009-02-09 5:15 PM

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

Steve-

Yes, first race of the swimming or biking kind. I've done plenty of running races. Growing up in Vt, not too many swim teams around in my area!

I'm honestly not much of a swimmer. My goals now are to swim as many lengths in 30 mins as I can while I'm there. Yesterday was about 750m in 30 mins- so I do some and then rest. But, this is an improvement over a couple months ago. My biggest downfall had always been a poor technique with kicking too fast, making me SOB too quickly. That's under control now, just working on endurance.

2009-02-09 5:18 PM

in reply to: #1952260

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

Thanks, but I'll be 37 in 2 weeks! I'll have to take a look at the roster from last year.

mindymcc

2009-02-09 6:19 PM

in reply to: #1953242

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

Steve, swimming continues to go well. No huge breakthroughs in speed, but the endurance is building and I feel comfortable with the breathing - all an improvement.

I did get on my bike this weekend. With temperatures approaching 70, I really wanted to go for a real ride, but am not confident on the pedals yet. So basically I did 30 minutes on the trainer and then rode up and down my street practicing getting my feet in and out of the clips. I'm sure my neighbors thought I had lost my mind! Anyway, maybe soon I will actually go on a real bike ride. I'm curious if my "time" on the stationery at the gym will have any correlation to to real time/distance on the road.

2009-02-09 7:22 PM

in reply to: #1953440

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

Mindy-

Just my 2 cents, but I've always heard that a stationary bike can actually be a better workout than a real bike. The theory is, on a stationary you are constantly peddling for the 30 mins, but on a street bike, you go downhill and stop peddling once in a while.

Makes sense to me anyways. :-)

-Eric

2009-02-09 7:48 PM

in reply to: #1953516

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

MINDY and ERIC -

What Eric says is essentially right - and definitely so if you ALLOW yourself to suffer on the trainer. I find it much easier to "zone out" on outside rides, and really have to focus to follow a structured workout, if I have one.

With the trainer, it is much more effective doing controlled cadence work, or things such as one-legged drills, or focusing on "emphasizing" a particular part of the stroke (in clock terms, "pushing" at 12, or 3, or 6, or 9 o'clock. It's also easier to get the most out of something like pushing tough gearing for a minute, then spinning a minute, repeat ad nauseum. And getting really intense with the same sort of thing, alternate hard and easy every 15 seconds! Lots of rapid shifting is required, but it is an effective drill -- and one that just doesn't "work" when tried outside.

Yeah, the trainer can give a much more structured and/or intense workout than outside rides - especially for someone like me, who lives in a flat part of the world; to get to decent hills, I need to drive about 45-50 minutes.

2009-02-09 8:06 PM

in reply to: #1953348

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

ERIC -

Did you see my "correction" for your age, back on the previous page? As it turns out, the two age groups had pretty comparable swim times. I think that well under 15 minutes for the .3 miles at Timberman is highly likely for you, as it's still 6+ months away.

I've written to Keith Jordan, the fabulous RD, asking to be placed on the wait list, so I hope that works out.

On to music, then! I told you that blues is my long-standing default musical form, what I've listened to and learned about forever. But mostly as a result of your mention last week of Sam Bush, I've been delving into my bluegrass stuff. I always have in mind what I once read about bluegrasss, that so much of it is about split-second virtuosity. That is so true, yes? When I hear the stuff that is predicated on split-second virtuosity, it is about the most exciting music I know.

If you don't already own it, try to find Tony Trischka's "Territory" CD, which has more musical ideas in it than you can shake a stick at. Even though it is primarily a banjo tour de force, he delves into so many other genres, and messes around with so many weird tunings, and seamlessly melds so many disparate musical concepts, that the CD almost seems to defy easy categorization. GREAT stuff!!

In my next life (if I believed in next lives, I'd feel better about this.....) I want to come back as someone who has some more-than-decent innate musical talent. It takes me SO long to pick up musical stuff, and it makes me crazy when I'm around people who just "get it", muscially. They hear things seemingly immediately, and can find patterns effortlessly on whatever instrument they choose. One of my nephews can just naturally find chords up and down the neck of the guitar -- and even when I see them demonstrated on a DVD, in just doesn't sink in quickly. Intuitive musical understanding -- that's what is tragically absent in my genetic make-up!!

Thanks for re-awakening the bluegrass beast within me, Eric!

2009-02-10 6:36 AM

in reply to: #1896958

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

Thanks Steve, I'll shoot for 15 mins. ;-)

I'm glad to help with the re-interest in Bluegrass. I like Del McCoury a lot, Alison Kraus of course (she's now #1 on the list of female performers all-time with 26 Grammys). The soundtrack to O Brother Where Art Thou is a favorite too. A little off the bluegrass track is Gillian Welch, and Jimmie Dale Gilmore... but they are on my iPod often. (But, I also have AC/DC on there as well.)

My parents used to drag me to bluegrass festivals in Vt and Maine, so I guess it rubbed off.

2009-02-10 9:06 AM

in reply to: #1953999

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

ERIC -

1.) Okay. Shoot 15, think 12!
2.) I'm in at Timberman!!

2009-02-10 9:59 AM

in reply to: #1951954

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

sax - 2009-02-09 1:41 AM

I recomend being patient and building the base...you will thank yourself later. There will be plenty of time to work on speed and higher intensity later...As far as doing Oly distance...absolutely, I think you can do that in the same season, if not several...

NEIL,

Thanks for your thoughts. I'll try to rein in myself for now. It's not just the low intensity workouts, but also the high intensity workouts (in this case 48 min cycling on my Sprint plan) that leave me wanting more. After that wonderful bike-run brick workout on Sun where I did 10 mile bike in 50 min and ended a 5k run in 21 min, I felt a little tired the next day, but not sore. I rested Mon, and am hungry for more today.

So I guess for building the base I should work on increasing my distances first, and later work on speed and higher intensity.

Thanks for your encouragement!

2009-02-10 10:08 AM

in reply to: #1952095

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

stevebradley - 2009-02-09 8:50 AM GRACE - Here are two more exercises for quadriceps-strengthening by way of aligning your kneecap and helping with your knee pain... the top one can probably substitutre nicely for the vastus medialus one I TRIED to explain a few days ago, but at which I likely failed miserably!

STEVE,

Thanks so much for taking the time to walk me through the exercises. I can definitely feel the burn in my quadriceps when I do them and it is great that my knee doesn't hurt too badly when I do them. It is very clear that I have been compensating for my right knee by not using it as much because my right quadricep is 'atrophied' compared with my left! I noticed this after reading a diagnostic article online. While waiting for the chance to get a proper diagnosis from a sports physician, I will work on these exercises. By the way I also understood the v.m. exercise you described too. I'm starting to think you can't fail miserably at anything hehe.

2009-02-10 10:16 AM

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

mindymcc - 2009-02-09 9:25 AM

Grace - all I know is, with those times, you would kick my butt!

Mindy

MINDY,

I think your progress has been awesome too. I love that this group has such a diverse bunch of peoples with different strengths and challenges, yet can encourage each other to strive for their own personal bests. And of course there's our handsome Guru Steve hehe...

Edited by gracetaBitha 2009-02-10 10:19 AM

2009-02-10 11:04 AM

in reply to: #1953225

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

stevebradley - 2009-02-09 4:59 PM GRACE - If "early" would be, say, May or June, you have loads of time to establish your base AND work on the so-called "build" phases... How familiar are you with the concept of "Periodization"? ...I agree with Sax that you can likely look at more than one oly late(r) in the season, or just do some mixing and matching with sprints and olys... sneak in one of those Week Ten workouts in place of one of the current week's ones, and see how that makes you feel - both physically (all systems feel fine?) and mentally (more satisfying?). Let me know which way you lean on this, okay? ...Does the capital B in your user name stand for "Built for speed"??? That's a friskily fast time for a 5km at 1.5%incline!!! Nicely done! (And your knees are purring! Sweet!)

STEVE,

Yes, I am planning to peak for an 'early season' Sprint at the end of June for That Dam Tri, Meadville PA. Then if it is viable, I would like to do a 'late season' Oly 19 Sep at Ford City, PA. Both venues are less than an hour drive from home.

I have come across the periodization concept in my readings and can recognize it in most of the training plans that I have looked at. I think it means that I train in such as way that I don't overexert myself (to the point of exhaustion) and give myself time to recover after each high intensity session to realise best gains from it. And I would use my HR or perceived level of exertion to stay within my 70-80% zone most times, keeping out of the 'exhaustion zone'?

I felt great the day after that long bike-run workout Sun. That workout wasn't in my plan - I sneaked in what was essentially a Week 10 workout. It was mentally satisfying and left me wanting more. I looked at my overall 'canned' plan after that workout and was a bit disappointed to see that there isn't a long bike-run (62 min-18 min) brick until Week 20 (End of May). I'm in Week 3 now. I feel there should be more brick workouts even if this plan is mainly build phase. My plan currently calls for 2 bike, run and swim sessions a week, but there is another 20 wk Sprint plan that has 3 bike, run and swim sessions. Maybe I could switch to that instead.

Ah... the capital B in my username was actually a typo hehe. Now that I hit 21 min for 5K I have started fantasizing about a sub 20 min time hehe. I am so greedy!

2009-02-10 12:18 PM

in reply to: #1954581

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

GRACE -

I lurked and skulked around your post to Neil, and saw that wonderful line: "I felt a little tired the next day, but not sore."
PERFECT!!
That's just about 183% exactly what you want after a challenging workout (or maybe any half-decent workout, for that matter). Tired and Sore are twins -- tired is the Good Twin, sore is the Bad Twin.

Ah, yes, I remember your earlier mention of That Dam Tri. You know, at that time (probably along about page 2 or 3) I thought it would be a brilliant idea to start a list somewhere of the proposed races for all of you.......but now, 14 or so pages later, guess what I have NOT done?!? Procrastination rears its fetid head, yet again. Uh, maybe today I will do the race-list thing....

Part of periodization is what you say, but it includes far more than that. Really, it is a way to organize an entire training year. The kingpin of this is Joe Friel, and what I'll put below is taken from the first edition of his "The Triathlete's Training Bible"; the thirds edition, I believe is just out.

"Periodization is a training concept in which the year is divided into periods with each having a specific aspect of fitness to improve while maintaining the gains made in previous periods."

"The basic premise af all periodization programs is that training should progress from general to specific (principle of specificity), and always emphasize the unique needs of the athlete (principle of individuality)."

"It also involves arranging the workouts in such a way that elements of fitness achieved in an earlier phase of training are maintained (principle of reversibility) while new ones are addressed and gradually improved (principle of progressive overload). Small changes are introduced into workouts typically during three- to eight-week periods. The targeted physiological system gradually becomes more fit with such a pattern of chnage and then maintained as a new system is targeted."

So, when Neil mentioned Base the other day, that is traditionally the phase for the first part of a training year. It is considered part of General Preparation, and follows what is known as Transition, the period of flexible length after a season has ended. With the plan you are following now, it is likely in the Base period, and after 8 or 10 weeks or so, will move into the Build period, which is characterized by more specific preparation. At least, that's what I'm guessing, as almost all established training plans these days are periodized.

If you're feeling hungry for more, then definitely look into the plan that would have you doing three of each, rather than just two. But if what you are REALLY after is the feeling you goit from your brick, then maybe just create them yourself whenever you feel up to it. I would expect they'll become more of a feature in the plans you are viewing as you move out of Base and into Build and beyond ---- but maybe not, or not as much as you think you would like. That's where your creative right-brain kicks in, Grace!

There are a lot of people who feel that NObody does enough bricks, so in a way that kind of gives you permission to set them according to your wants and needs. (Also, many people simply hate doing bricks.) One of the toughest things a new-to-triathlon body has to do is learn what it feels like to go from swim-to-bike and then bike-to-run, and not feel miserable or clutzy in the process. But bricks can go a long ways towards making it easy for the body to make those on-the-fly adjustments, and therein lies their main value.

One thing to consider with bricks is to work into them gradually. What I would add for the one you cited for Week 20 is to do those 18 minutes at a really easy pace. (For what it's worth, I would not have advocated doing a fast 5km as opart of your first brick, but it sure seems to have worked well for you!) In general, at least for your first bunch o' bricks, follow this rule: the longer or harder the bike portion, the relatively easier the run portion. The line is fuzzy here, in that it's not clear what is "hard" and what is "long" for the bike; I'll leave that up to your judgment for now.

Hmmm. It seems as if there were other things I wanted to say, but they've escaped my mental grasp for the moment. Oh, the slings and arrows of insidious senility!

Leaving stones unturned for now, then, I'm off. Bye!

2009-02-10 12:26 PM

in reply to: #1954581

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

GRACE again -

Back on Jan 26 (on page 5), I wrote some comments to Becky about bricks; that's the 12th post on the page. Then, two posts later, I outlined my favorite I-REALLY-AM-A-MASOCHIST brick, the one called "Icks". Have a look at it, and dream about the day you first tackle it in all its glory! It might well be that the tiredest I have ever been after a workout is when doing "Icks", but to the best of my memory (and our memory is oh-so-good at blotting out bad stuff....) I was never full-blown sore after them. THE PAIN FEELS SO GOOD WHEN IT STOPS!!!

2009-02-10 9:39 PM

in reply to: #1953516

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

MINDY and ERIC -

Thanks to you two and the trainer-talk, I was motivated to get on mine twice today. The first was late morning, just 45 minutes bopping along at ~90-92 rpm. The second was 60 minutes this evening, a combination of sets of one-legged drills, high cadence (100-117 rpm) work, and a bit of out-of-the-saddle efforts in tough gearing, all interspersed between (among?) straight riding at ~90 rpm.

Tomorrow is supposed to be warm-ish, about 8 Celsius, which is maybe 45 Fahrenheit, which might be good enough for a bundled-up outside ridre -- if freezing rain is not part of the picture early on. I remain painfully envious of all of you who are able to ride outside regularly!!!

2009-02-11 8:59 AM

in reply to: #1955913

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

LISA -

Just before I set about type all of this for you, are you part of [email protected]? If so, then you will have seen the recent discussion abouut VO2Max testing, in which a couple of very reputable coaches have chimed in saying forcefully that they do NOT recommend that for their athletes.

I will try to diddle around and see if I can soemhow get those references onto these pages, but if not, I will just type out the salient points. They will definitely be of interest to you, and liley everybody else as well.

Did you get around to doing those baseline "tests" for max. h.r.? Just wondering.

2009-02-11 9:52 AM

in reply to: #1956343

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

LISA again -

While looking around for something for Grace, I went to www2.trainingbible.com and found Joe Friel's guidelines for "The 30-Minute Test". this is under Free Resouces, in the Training Tips section.
I hope it helps!

mindymcc

2009-02-11 2:55 PM

in reply to: #1896958

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

I attempted my first brick today...if you can count 3 minutes on the treadmill after 55 minutes on the stationery bike. It is interesting trying to run when your legs feel like lead weights! Does that ever get easier with training or it is something you just learn to push through?

My training schedule will take a beating this weekend as we are headed for the mountains with a long weekend for the kids (Monday and Tuesday off.) I will try to be good but like to spend my time there sitting on the sofa with my dogs or taking leisurely hikes! If the weather is decent I do hope to get a real bike ride in and might squeeze in a run, but definitely no swimming. Hopefully I won't forget everything I've learned.

ThatGirl

2009-02-11 3:11 PM

in reply to: #1896958

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Bethesda, MD/Northern NJ

Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

I had an attempted pedal surgery last night (trying to put the new pedals on), but I couldn't get the old ones off! I'll probably just take it to the LBS and have them do it, but does anyone here have tips on how to get the old ones off? I tried with both a wrench, and then an allen key in the back, but I couldn't get it to even move a little bit. Maybe I'm just really weak

Workouts are going well this week - and I'm officially signed up for Bassman! So my spring schedule right now is: 1) Cherry Blossom 10 Miler (April 5), 2) Bassman (April 26), 3) possibly a MS Charity bike ride on May 16, and 4) MOOSEMAN on June 7. I'm definitely looking forward to Bassman - my first tri!

Enjoy your trip this weekend Mindy! I'm actually going up to NJ for the weekend, but I should still be able to get my long-ride in on Sunday, and I have a rest day Saturday. I will be going to Costa Rica for a week in March though, and I already know that that is going to be a lost week. I'll get in what running and swimming I can, but I don't think it will be much...

And thanks Steve, for taking the time to type out those arm stretches a few pages back! I've been regularly incorporating them before swimming and I'm no longer feeling that 'burn' (as Eric (I think!) described it ).

hooslisa

2009-02-11 3:52 PM

in reply to: #1956488

Master

1524

Reston, VA

Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

stevebradley - 2009-02-11 10:52 AM LISA again - While looking around for something for Grace, I went to www2.trainingbible.com and found Joe Friel's guidelines for "The 30-Minute Test". this is under Free Resouces, in the Training Tips section. I hope it helps!

hey steve,

thanks for the info. i will check it all out, and no, i am not on that yahoo groups thing, but I will look. whoa run on sentence.

i have not done the testing yet. work has been hectic and i've been tapering (have the myrtle marathon on sat). i will look to do that probably after recovering from myrtle for a bit.

thanks!

TGrayPDX

2009-02-11 5:42 PM

in reply to: #1921919

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Portland

Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group OPEN

Steve,

Thanks so much for the response, I'm sorry it's taken so long for me to get back to the forum. Life is sometimes so lifelike.

I've been continuing with the bike commute, with snow forcing a few days off - nothing is worth riding road tires on ice- and mixing in some starter runs in the evening. I used to be built for running, but this seems to have gone away and I have yet to hit a groove. I did do a pretty good run immediately after a speedy homeward commute that felt surprisingly good. My legs were much better off for being warmed up than when just stretch and go. My hope for now is to get in two runs during the week with one (perhaps a bit longer?) on the weekend.

No swimming yet, but there is a community pool that is more or less on the way to work. I plan to start with two mornings a week, which would make them "bricks" by default I guess. I have never really swam in a competitive setting, and definitely never gone a full mile in open water. This is the part of the tri that gives me the biggest worry.

As for the bike, I've commute on a 80's Miyata 110 - 14spd- with upgraded wheels and drive train, SPD pedals. It is not exactly state of the art, but I think the saying goes "This is my bike, there are many like it but this one is mine . . . " :-) I would love to trade up but the family seems to be so fond of eating. . . .

I'm planning to get in longer weekend rides when possible, I rode with my wife to her Roller Derby practice (go Rose City Rollers!) then looped back for a good 16 miles and did another 10 later in the day. All of this went pretty well, I think I am moving into territory where the question is of speed with endurance rather than just endurance. That said, the tri course has significant climbing in it, we shall see.

OK, another rambling post. Thanks again for taking the time to answer mine (and all the other) questions. If you make it to Portland in August the first post race pint is on me.

Trevor

2009-02-11 6:28 PM

in reply to: #1957256

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

MINDY -

Yes, yes, YES!!! It WILL get easier with training - and I dare say sooner than later!
YES! also to 3 minutes on the 'mill after 55 minutes on the stationary as counting as a brick. A brick by any other name is a brick (??), and the goal of a brick is abiding -- to get your systems accustomed to switching from one activity to another. And that's what you did! Bravo!!

And what you felt is one of the two most common things for beginners to bricks, the other being the feeling of your legs having turned to jelly. (Maybe that will be the next brick for you

........)

As for something you "just learn to push through" - well, I'll go back to the "sooner than later" comment above by way of saying that in your training it will generally be much better thsan what you fear. In fact, before long you will have learned how to push PAST it, especially if you take your time easing into your runs - both in terms of duration and intensity. As I said to Grace yesterday, at the beginning follow a pattern where when your bike is long (relatively), keep the run short (relatively). I think you did that just about perfectly today, especially as you were feeling your legs being like lead weights.

However, in race situations is where it is all quite unpredictable. In races, how your legs feel off the bike is dependent on so many factors - the bike course, the weather, your nutrition, your race-week training, and so on. One of my more "wobbly" runs was at the start of my fifth triathlon, and followed a particularly tough, hilly bike; still, it was unsettling to feel so disengaged with my legs and feet. The good news is that it has been literally YEARS since my legs felt truly crappy starting off on the run, so I think the learning curve is steep at first, then gets nice and gradual --- and then the whole deal gets mastered. Hallelujah!

There are some tricks that help with this in races, and keep these in mind for later.
In the final mile or so of the bike, there are two things you can do. One is to get your gearing nice and easy, and then spin quite fast for 25-40 seconds. As a counterpoint to this, get your gearing much tougher (big ring and your 11-, 12-, or 13-teeth cog), and get out of the saddle for 15-30 seconds. (I will often alternate these a couple of times, keeping my time in each at the lower range.)

What these two activities do is get you out of the usual position you've been in, be it aero or just riding on the hoods. The spin gets your legs beginning to think about moving fast, while the out-of-saddle grind activates your hips differently and gets you in a more upright "running-friendly" position. Does this make some sense? Try it next time you're on the stationary, maybe from the 53rd to the 55th minute, using the example of what you did today. But DEFINITELY remember it for your races, as I guarantee that it will make your transition from the bike to the run that much more seamless.

The extended weekend sounds lovely! Don't worry about being "good", as it's so early in the season that you have lots and lots and lots of time to make up what you might see as "lost ground" (although it really isn't lost at all). And from one whose "kids" are soon-to-be 25 and just-turned 22, and both of whom live quite a ways away from home, I can definitely say that the time with your own kids this weekend is more valuable than any old workouts! Enjoy! Revel! Bask! Savor!

2009-02-11 6:44 PM

in reply to: #1896958

Member

Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

How about nutrition anyone while training? I'm still pretty much eating whatever I feel like, although am trying to cut down on desserts and generally avoid greasy/fatty foods.

Do you have to give up the occasional bowl of ice cream and beer (not at the same time of course....) if training?