stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL (Page 17)

LISA -

YIKES!!! Myrtle Beach, for you, crept up on me! Are you feeling nice and ready for it, and enjoying the bliss of tapering? When are you heading down? I need to know, so that I can make sure thsat the mojo I will be teleporting your way arrives at exactly the right time. SHAZAM!

TREVOR -

GREAT to have you back! You put in what appeared (for 21 days, or 14-and-a-half apges here) to be a cameo appearance, but I'm gald you're still with us!

I have to split the scene for a bit, but I'll be back in a while.

Bye for now.

Haha yeah, I have Zinn's book - I'm finding it really useful for taking care of my bike. It was a big investment for me (the bike that is - as a poor student I have tons of books...), so I want to keep it in tip-top shape! I attempted it because he made it sound so easy in the book, but I've come to conclude that I'm just really weak, and will be visiting the shop when I find time  

I hope your achilles feels better and you make it to Bassman! I definitely want all the deets on the Mooseman course, but lets wait till closer to May - I don't want to freak out too much about it (i.e. the hills!) ahead of time.  I will be in Vermont in May for a graduation, so I'm planning on cutting over to NH on my way home to hopefully stop and ride the bike course once through... I don't know if you saw my latest blog post, but I've been running into hills lately on my bike rides, so hopefully I'll be ready! 

Good luck Lisa! Have fun!

Edited by ThatGirl 2009-02-11 8:44 PM

TREVOR -

Well, you did your first brick with that run after the commute! Congratulations! There's a lot of inaugural bricks flying around these days, with you and Mindy and Grace and ?? (I think there was one more recently). I'm sure your running legs will come around very soon - maybe you're over the hump already. If not, though, the plan of two during the week and a longer weekend one should do the trick in short order.

Don't worry about the idea of swimming in acompetitive setting. As I've said to several people recently, the degree of competitiveness in a triathlon swim can largely be controlled by the individual. One can choose to be situated right in the midst of the fray, or opt for the more quiet, less turbulent world in the back or sides of the action. There are loads of approaches to the swim leg, and dissected carefully it doesn't have to be at all nerve-wracking.

As for the distance, well, you'll likely be surprised at how fast that develops - once it decides to develop fast, that is . For me, there was awinte and spring full of endless slow laps in pools, and just wondering and wondering when the endurance would kick in. That didn't happen until sometime in mid-June, when an open-water swim just seemed relatively effortless. From that springboard, the distance aspect just came easily (as for the speed......about nine years later I'm STILL working on that!!)

Anyhow, see how you feel after the first few weeks of swims. As you begin, try to focus on form and just feeling comfortable. Ignore the lap clock, and only if you are fully loving the water and feeling really comfortable should you think about knocking off long-ish sessions at the beginning.

I'm hoping that you and everybody else end up loving open water as much as I do. The most deflating part of my training year is when I realize that it is just too cold to do open water swims anymore, and have to retreat to the stultifying confines of the pool. From early June until the middle of October, I might hit the pool twice, and that's when weather or really rough water forvces me in for a key workout. Otherwise, i try to do 3-4 open water swims a week during the season.

Go Rose City Rollers! (VERY cool, that!)

Keep in touch, Trevor!

ERIC -

Nutrition while training, you ask? Now THERE'S the $64,000 question. More - MUCH more - on that later. (In the meantime, feel free to enjoy that ice cream! )

COMING SOON FOR ALL -- "Chasing bubbles" in the pool as a way of getting ready for that first race swim! Glub, glub!

ERIC -

Okay. Nutrition thoughts. Big topic. Many opinions. Where to begin?

In a nutshell, I would say that as your training progresses and race season approaches, you'll want to work at fine-tuning your nutrition so as to optimize your performances. There - how's that? Case closed? (Didn't hink so!)

I went back to your first two posts to see how you defined your weight concerns and physiognomy, and found a couple of things that might be telling. You were upfront about your stature in the first post, and in the second post you mentioned some of your food preferences and your "insulation". Trying to read between the lines, I think you are generally okay with these things, but suspect that in order to perform to the best of your ability there might have to be some changes made. And this notion has, of course, come up in your latest post.

First, the "insulation" comment. One of the first things I was told (March '05) by the guy who taught me how to use weights properly is that everybody has a problem area - some part of their body with which they are not pleased and which never seems to improve, regardless of how much time and effort is lavished upon it. (His was his large bottom, which didn't please him as a serious body-builder.) So, it might be that your "problem area" is your stomach, in which case you join about 94% of the general population in sharing that displeasure! His point, though, is that people should not enter into too much angst when it comes to toning or reducing their personal problem area, as this is place where the rewards are just really difficult to come by.

Second, you are quick to cite some of the usual suspects as food weaknesses, and you know as well as I do that in many ways the stuff you love most is not the stuff that wil enhance your athletic performances, or improve your overall health. (I say this as one who shares many of your eating weaknesses, and who needs to exert a lot of willpower to avoid those temptations!)

Third - and this is what I think you want to hear - is that it is likely a very good idea to work on your overall nutrition between now and your first serious race(s) of the season. Now, I would say this to ANYbody who is looking to compete --- and come to think about it I'd also say it to anybody, just because. But, for us as endurance-minded athletes, we can wring a lot of improved peformance gains out of ourselves just by keeping ourselves properly fueled.

Have you ever kept an eating log? Neither have I. Lots of people swear by them, though, and some nutritionists require them of their clients. (I guess it's like cognitive therapy for eating.) The most comprehensive eating logs include caloric values, while many people get by with just writing down everything they eat, each and every day. (Fairly grim to do, I think, especially for those of us who love their cookies!! Maybe that's why I've never done it -- who needs the guilt?)

So, between now and whenever, think about reducing simple sugars (oh NOOOOOO!!!) and processed foods. This is actually easier than it may sound, and can yield significant gains. By all means, don't do this all in one fell swoop - going "cold turkey" is always problematic, and improving one's diet shouldn't be an ordeal. Realistically, you have several months in which to do this, and small improvements on a weekly basis will add up over the medium- to long-term.

Resist diets. Most diets seem to carry their own agendas, and these agendas are often so conflicting that they make people crazy when they try to figure them out. HOWEVER, get a hold of the glycemic index, and try to understand how this works. It will help your view of carbohydrates, and a good - that is, one that doesn't play to a particular dietary agenda - glycemic index (GI) will disabuse you of the simplistic notion of "good" and "bad" carbohydrates. From the perspective of athletic performance, the GI will give valuable insights into how particular foods can affect your blood sugar or blood glucose levels. This might be the crux of your question, so definitely track down a GI, have a look at it, and we can talk about it later.

Also, pay attention to protein - which I suspect you do, as it must've come up in your various strength/mma-based training programs. While many diets will rip you for your carbohydrate intake, other diets will rip you for your protein ingestion. Protein is critical for us, especially when it comes recovery. In fact, there is a lot of discussion out there about the optimal carb:protein ratio for endurance athletes, and some products are formulated on either 3:1 or 4:1 ratios. But the point here is to not eschew protein! There are different sources of protein, and all you have to do is venture into a helth-food store - especially one that caters to body-builders - to see how passionately people view their protein sources. (But that's a discussion for another time and place!)

I'm 6'2" and weigh 181 this morning. This does not really please me; I liked the 179 yesterday morning much better! I try to hit the middle of the race season at in the low-170s, as I just feel this is optimal for me. (Most seasons, come August, I'm at 168-170.) However, last season was very successful, and I don't think I ever made it down below 173; 175 was maybe most common. But this unsettled me, as I felt that it maybe signified some metabolic change associated with age. I still worry about this, and so when I see the 181 on the scale it sets off some low-key alarms. It's true that I normally "allow" myself to drift up to 180 in the off-season, and I say that by way of trying to make you feel that it's perfectly okay to be a bit laissez-faire with what you ar eating at this point of the year. Many coaches can accept a 5-8 pound off-season weight gain from their clients, knowing that once the serious training begins, the weight will shawl off again. And that's how it always happened for me - until last summer.

I've written a lot here, and not sure I've said much. If you've made it this far, let me know what you think and shoot off some questions if you want. I have many more thoughts about this - including the 2.5 year stretch starting in October '03 when I went vegetarian. Not only was that a highly useful exercise, but it also proved beneficial, I think, in that my best endurance results were achieved during that period. I'm not sure it was a "deal-maker or -breaker", but it certainly didn't hurt and was definitely wonderful in terms if eating "consciously". (But this also is a discussion for another time and place.)

Good god almighty - has ANY of this been useful to you????

TREVOR -

The really great thing about Bike Lust is that it enables one to multi-task at sinning. The way I see it, to be an committed bike-luster, one has to incorporate several of the acknowledged Deadly, or Cardinal, Sins. I mean, where would Bike Lust be without aspects of Envy, Pride, Greed, and just plain old Lust being involved to varying degrees?!?

THATGIRL -

If you can do it, DEFINITELY head over to to Mooseman venue to test-ride the course in May! More than maybe any course I've raced, the Mooseman course rewards either pre-rides or previous experience on it. That is NOT to say that it is the toughest couurse out there - far from it - but that there are lots of different parts to it that can be approached more successfully by the knowledge that they're there, and when they appear.

When is the graduation in Vermont? If it works with my schedule, I'd be more than happy to head down there and ride the course with you. Having a "guide" there would help you as well to focus on the course and not have to keep referring to the cue sheet for directions. (It's not exactly a straight-line course!!)

Let me know about your timing for a proposed pre-ride, okay?

TOPIC - HERDING CATS?

It's good to have Trevor back in the old corral, but I wonder about Patty, Isaiah, and yukonjess. And where has Nathan gotten to? I feel like an old mother hen, trying to keep track of the lot of you!

(Bad mixing of metaphors there: cats....corral....hen.....)

I enjoyed the post on weight/nutrition/etc.  While weight loss is not the main goal of doing a triathlon for me, I did think it would be a pleasant side effect.  After 5 weeks of working out 6 days/week (compared to 2-3 times before my tri training officially started) I have lost a total of zero pounds!  I was expecting a few so it is a little disappointing although I am not dweeling on it.  I don't think my eating habits are terrible, and have noticed a general increase in weight that I hate to attribute to age/metabolism shifts, but it just seems harder and harder to see results.  I'm not sure if my husband is being truthful or just trying to be nice, but he thinks there may be some weight gain due to using new muscles (adding biking and swimming versus only running) so there really has been some gains made, but I don't see it.  I will continue to do what I have been doing and hope the weight loss will start to occur before too long. 

Steve-

I'm 5'11, and bounce between 178-181 or so. I think my ideal would probably be around 172 for running anyways. I did do a calorie estimation, and it said I should eat around 2500 a day, and I think I'm right around there. The nutrition journal through BT seems a little too daunting- way too many foods on there to scroll through. My fiance' is an excellent cook, that's probably my biggest downfall. I think from the boxing and thousands of push-ups we do, that some of the weight gain has been back/shoulder muscle.

I do try and avoid processed foods, and take in very little sugar I think. In 2003 or so I did the vegetarian thing for about 8 months after a bad case of food poisoning. I could switch back at anytime, but it's hard to do with a family who isn't I found. I'll try and stay on the path of avoiding the sugars as able.

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

-Eric

MINDY -

I wonder if thinking in terms of Tone, as opposed to Weight, might be useful and applicable at this stage of things. What I mean is, not only do I think your husband might be right on target, but beyond that I wonder if there have been some subtle changes in your upper body, specifically the large muscle groups that power swimming. I'm thinking of your back in general, but specifically the traps and lats. And I say "subtle" because while neither you nor your husband might notice changes in muscularity, it may well be that is has happened, and is happening still. That's toning, in action!

Beyond that, the cycling you're doing has probably added a similarly subtle amount of muscularity to your lower body, although likely a bit less than for the swimming and upper body, simply because you had already been working the lower body with running. But I would not discount it for any of the muscles that work separately for cycling.

I went back to your introductory post on page 1, and I can see why the zero weight loss might be a bit deflating. I mention the stuff above because, given all you've been doing over the past 5 weeks, I would expect a bit of weight loss, so I think the suggestions above might have some merit. There also might be something to be said for metabolic changes, which can be quite insidious. I think I mentioned in my earlier post today that I attribute my inability to get down below 173-175 last season to metabolic/aging changes, and I'll DEFINITELY feel that way if my race weight this coming season sticks in the mid-170s.

Don't despair, however, as I will almost guarantee that if you continue to ramp up your training, you will indeed lose some weight. If your body is currently responding by adding muscle mass, that will NOT continue indefinitely unless you augment your endurance training with really serious lifting that is designed to build muscle mass. So, eventually, some of those less-than-loved pounds will slough off, I am sure! Keep the faith!

ERIC -

2500 calories a day? You mean you're not like MIchael Phelps, with his 12,000 a day?! (Can you imagine - 12,000 calories daily? Mercy!)

Running is the hot button for me in terms of weight. I think it is not just in my head that makes me think that I am just that much more sprightly when I weigh in the low-170s. It's so tough to quantify this, however, as at my age the effects of aging can exact a toll on one's performances, regardless of weight. I'm still placing right at the top of my a.g. for triathlon runs, even though my times are not as good as they were two or three years ago.

It can certainly catch my attention, however, when I read stuff like "Imagine how it would feel to run a 10km with a 10-pound bag strapped to your back, and that's exactly the effect of those ten extra pounds you weigh now is!" But, of course, that comparison is not entirely valid, because some of that extra weight will be in the form of functional muscle, rather than just dead weight. Right?

As I think about all of this more, I'll try to be a bit more clear about eating habits and regimens. Stay tuned!

Steve, After dropping 30lbs I have gotten about 2min per mile faster at 150bpm and can go much further without pain.  In fact in the beginning I pretty much didn't run over 3 or 4 miles...opting instead for the lower stress biking option.  I have said it before but lots of Thai food (the soups in particular) and riding up in the Hollywood hills on a 11-19 cassette...that seemed to do the trick. 

 

I can finally see the old 6 pack that was once there...yoga is helping me with that.  I am holding stdy at 184 right now...I was at 179-81 daily just a few weeks ago during mary trng but as my mileage has dropped a touch I notice I am up about 4 lbs.  Not that concerned....just noticing it.  It seems to be a simple math problem of same amount of food + less calories burned = weight gain

I am not sure of my BF% but I assume its in the teens...intersted to find that ideal BF% for going into IM.  I have fairly broad upper body and muscular legs...I am hoping that doesn't atrophy down too much...I certainly don't have the runner's build. At 5'10" I am thinking 175 would be just right...so I'm close!

Edited by sax 2009-02-12 3:31 PM

Lisa, you have my sympathies!  I hope you ae feeling better soon.

LISA-

To your list in paragraph #1, add a third reason - we're just like family!! REALLY!

Are you on antibiotics yet for it? That would go a long ways towards making you feel more comfortable on Saturday. Is there any good contingency plan in the absence of antibiotics?


Well, no sugar-coating it -- that's a tough little forecast for the race. I just went on-line to check a couple of other factors beyond the rain, and I see three things of note: cool temps (46-59), fairly high humidity (78%), moderate winds (SSW, 9mph).

So, what would I do? Very tough call(s). You have about 90 minutes to run dryly, so that eliminates the need to start in something waterproof, especially if you hate getting wet. But if you have a zip-top thing that is really light and somewhat waterproof and DECIDEDLY breathable, that might be a good top layer. I would start with cotton gloves for the early cold, and then stick them somewhere that they will be about the last thing to get wet once the rains start, after which you might really welcome wearing them if the wind contributes to an uncomfortable chill.

If you'll be wearing a hat, go for one with the thinnest brim possible, just so that you don't have six pounds of sodden brim hanging over your face. (I use DeSoto race hats exclusively, just because their brims are so thin and light.)

The really tricky part about the forecast is balancing the need to stay warm and as dry as possible with the need to avoid feeling suffocated if the humidity gets to be too much. That's maybe where the zipper would come in handy, so you can zip the bottom part behind your back, but still get water coverage on your shoulders and arms.

Do you have something like BodyGlide left over from race season? If so, use that for your feet, anyplace where you might get hot spots or full-blown blisters. I would recommend the lightest socks you have, just to avoid the extremes of water-induced bunching and the blisters that will sprout from this. The BodyGlide will also work well for any place you might chafe, which is always exacerbated by wetness.

For your husband, maybe tape across each nipple. This is a big problem for men, especially with technical shirts that are not quite form-fitting, when it is raining, and bloody nipples can be remarkably painful (not to mention embarrassingly unsightly!)

Because you'll be wet and maybe chilled, the temptation might be there to avoid water stations. But looking at the race website, they are only every two miles, so definitely take in something at each aid station. And towards the end, maybe even the last half, try to avail yourself of the Powerade, which is their drink-of-choice. It may not seem it, but you'll probably be losing a fair bit of electrolytes, especially if the humidity exerts itself.

Food at miles 16 and 22. Hmmmm. Take in what you can, within limits, and don't worry if you haven't the stomach for anything other than water.

Things to be grateful for:
(1) That this is not your first marathon!
(2) That you're not doing the 63-mile bike ride (or maybe even the middle one - 37 miles? - for that matter).
(3) That the course is a long rectangle, meaning that the effects of the wind will be distributed mostly evenly (I think that's the shape. I couldn't get the little map to load big when I clicked on it, so I'm not 100% certain.
(4) That you are doing this, spouse close at hand. (Or, do you run your own races?) If it's the former, use each other for support or mutual kvetching. If it's the latter, use that competitive fire to stoke your own furnaces!
(5) That this is not your first marathon! (Worth re-stating!)

Final thought - For me, rain is a friend. I don't know how much it is for you, but if you've had ANY success in rain, or at ANY point have enjoyed training in it, then keep those thoughts right at the forefront of your mind. And remember that the vast majority of the other runners will dislike the weather as much or (hopefully) more than you do, so use that to your competitive advantage.

Mojo comin' your way, all Satruday morning, starting at 6 a.m.!!! Best of fortunes, Lisa!

SAX -

Well, with that weight loss it's a whole lot less from above that's putting pressure on the lower body. I'd like to read somewhere exactly what this translates into something along the line of G-force. I've probably read studies that try to quantify the effects of different weights on the skeletal-muscular system, but If so then it hasn't stuck. There is definitely accessible info out there that considers how much force is applied through each footstrike, but I'm just not sure I've seen those data dissected via different weights. Something to track dowm, I guess.

You know, having raced scores of times, I'm just not sure that there is truly a "runner's body". I've been blown past by all sorts of physiognomies, ranging from 80-pound females to - and I'm just guessing here - 260-pound males. Very few people have that Kenyanesque body that is usually thought of as the epitome of a runner's body, and certainly in the vast world of age-group runners, triathletes, and duathletes, just about any body type can achieve tremendous success.

Looking at your photo for a few weeks now, and reading your account of where you're currently at in terms of body composition, I'd say you have a lot going for you as a runner, at least physically. You appear pretty "sculpted" to my eyes, and I'm seeing an upper body that can power a powerful set of quads -- that's a pretty good combo to start with! And basically, nowadays you're pretty lean, and tending towards getting leaner; I would figure that the 175 target is very realistic - particularly with a big assist from those Thai soups!

Your approach to the post-Carlsbad weight gain is very healthy, and what you're seeing is extremely common after a demanding training regimen for a long event. Your body is still adjusting (although now it's in rebound mode) from the stresses of the training, and before long you'll find it swinging back down to whwre it was just before Carlsbad.

I doubt you'll experience any atrophy as you prepare for IMAZ. Atrophy tends to happen when muscles are under-utilized for an extended period. Grace mentioned some atrophying of her legs, and I certainly noticed it in my right leg as a result of my torn mensicus back in '06. In fact, my right quad is still not as developed as the left one, and this is just about 3 yeards from when the meniscus got torn (I didn't run between, say, March and mid-September of '06). As long as you continue to train solidly, you will lose weight without losing any functional muscularity. You MIGHT lose some muscle mass (bulk), but if that happens it will be a trade-off and what you'll receive is a more lean muscularity - but definitely NOT any atrophying!

Finally, my guess is that your BF% is well down into your teens - maybe 17 or 18? I'm very bad at guesstimating stuff like this, however, but I'll hazard those numbers anyhow. Remember, though, that part of what what you'll want to be burning for IM will be fat stores, so you'll want to keep SOMEthing there in the lipids category!

SAX -

As phenomena go, yours is pretty desirable! (DON'T think about it, or you'll jinx it!!!!)

I think that what you suggested about being warmed-up (altho' that type of warm-up will contribute to some sort of fatigue in many people) after the bike is one likely explanation. I seldom time things for comparative purposes any more, but for many bricks I have done I have felt remarkably fresh coming off the bike. This is something I mentioned to Mindy a day or two ago, when she was wondering if she might always be plagued with lead weights for legs, which was how she felt after her first brick earlier in the week.

Another thought, though, is related to nutrition - actually, two components of it. First, how well did you fuel during the brick rides? Did you take in adequate fluids, and maybe nibbled something carb-based (gel? bar?) while riding? If it's "yes" to one or both of those, and if you think that you fueled more adequately while riding than you normally do before a stand-alone run, then I would figure that is an excellent reason for runiing well off the bike.

The second nutrition component is broader, and probably less easy to answer, and that is - How well did you generally eat in the 6-18 hours before the activities (bricks and stand-alone runs)? It just might be that what you ate before the bricks was beneficial. I get the strong feeling, however, that you pay a lot of attention to what you eat, that you eat very consciously, so I doubt you ever allow yourself to wallow at the junk food trough (at least, i've never seen you near mine!).

Let me know how you fueled druing those rides, okay? It would be great to know that your body responds so well to proper fueling -- you'd be another piece of anecdotal evidence for keeping those energy stores elevated!

(Before reading yours this morning, I was working on a follow-up to mine from last night, fixing to focus on basic fueling concerns as they relate to our energy stores. This will come your way soon, although I will post it to everybody just for general information, seeing as how nutrition is a hot topic here of late.)