Newbz' Spring Fling Mentor Group is FULL! (Page 17)

Wow, those are some exspensive sticks.  But I guess it would be nice to spend some money on something that isn't spandex for a change.

I got the stick to help with calf cramps and love it!!

If price is an issue, and you can, check out a bigger race expo (marathon and half marathons are one of the easiest). they often sell them at discounted prices and you dont need the largest ones.

David, I'd like to probe the running a bit more if you wouldn't mind. 

First is addressing how reasonable a goal is for running.  I'm reasonably convinced based on recent runs that I could tick off a 1:40 1/2 marathon right now.  How reasonable is a 1:30 in 6 or 7 months?

As I've stated earlier, I've adopted the run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard method.  I'm shooting for 6-7 days a week of running with an occassional 2/day if I feel OK with it.  I listen to my body as well, but  usually give every workout 10-15 min of attention before quitting/skipping one (sometimes you don't want to workout, but once you warm up it goes fine). 
Right now I'm approaching the run schedule like:
Sun: long run (8-12 miles)
Mon: Recovery run (4-5 miles)
Tue: Hill workout (Intervals or cross country 4 miles)
Wed: Recovery (4-5 miles)
Thur: Tempo (5-6 miles; 3 to 4 @ tempo)
Fri: Recovery (4 miles)
Sat: Recovery (4-5 miles)

This translates to about 35 mi/wk.  I'd like to work up to 50.  Where should the additional miles go?  On to the recovery runs?  Should I even consider track style workouts later in the year(mile repeats or 400s...etc)?  My long run will probably end up being around 17 miles this year.  I have no marathon plans, so that distance is sufficient for the 1/2 mary distance.  Also I do some higher effort work during long runs, trying to negative split.

I'd just like to put the additional miles on the right workouts.

What do you guys think.  Does running in cold (My run today was 22 degrees) impact your times.  I trying to figure out if I have actually gone as far back as my last couple of runs seem to indicate.  I know I took off about 3 weeks but I was hopoing it wouldn't go so far backwards.  Also possibly still feeling effects of being sick.

Before I was sick I was able to run 6 miles at about 11:45 min/miles and keep HR in Z2, today I was only able to do 4 at 12:05 while maintaining HR.  If the run was scheduled to be much longer I am sure I would have had to slow down considerably to keep HR in check as I was starting to bumb up against the top of my Z2.

Oh well I am wondering if the cold air has something to do with my slower times and harder efforts.

Hope everybody is having a great weekend!!

A few things.

First, have you raced anything longer recently? 10k, 10mi, 13.1, or anything like that in the past year? What has your running looked like (both overall volumes and race results in the past year?)

If you can do 1:40 right now, and have not been stuck on that for a long time (ie you were in 1:50 shape a few months ago), then that right there would indicate you can probably do the 1:30 down the road.

If you are still dropping time, and able to add volume, i'd keep paces relatively easy and simply work on the volume for now. For races this long, the volume is going to be the single largest factor in dropping time. Once you get the volume up, then work on the speed.
Keep the tempo run but drop the intervals while you build (it should let you add a bit more and stay fresher each week).

As for building volume, get the base runs day in and day out up closer to 6-8 mi vs 4-6. that will give you a few miles right there. work the tempo into a mid-long run, say 7-10 mi depending on where you are.

Is the long run that long for a particular reason or just because you can? I'd personally say to cap it at 12-14/2hr. if you are not doing longer races the extra volume through one run wont do much outside of beat you up. Until you really start bumping into your limits speed wise it's sort of a waste (there can be other reasons to do it, i do sometimes, but its not going to gain you much).

Speed wise, i'd focus on getting your overall volume up int othe 40-50mpw range with just the tempo run, get used to the volume for a few weeks, and then slowly work in first a threshold workout (can alternate between mile repeats at 10k pace or just slower, to 2x2mi, 5x5min, 15 min steady, 8x800, 1200m repeats, any of those, done around 10k to 10mi race pace. semi short rest (something like half the interval or so.

Once you get 6-7 weeks out from the race, sprinkle in some faster reps, like 6x200m, or a mix of 200s and 400s at 1mi-3k pace on a longer rest, not sprinting but moving fast. these will help with quick turnover and are more for form.

keep the tempo run in there most weeks, but you may need to adjust a bit if you have another hard or two other workout runs that week.

a mix of the cold, time off, and being sick all likely have a part to play. Also keep in mind that paces can change day to day based on how you feel, rest, etc. My ave run paces can vary a LOT from day to day on the same course (like over 1:30 per mile dif).

'Evening everyone,
Sorry I've not been very involved; I've been lurking a lot and trying to get as much as I can from y'alls' posts. Right now I'm still not doing anything that activates my calf except walking.

The posts on swimming are a huge help for me. Swimming is my weakest event; I only recently got to where I could swim 400 yards without stopping, and I had to switch strokes a few times. Anything that helps my technique is appreciated.

On cramping: I was biking and running all summer, but the last month I was training I started experiencing calf cramps on every ride and most runs. I drink enough water and water-based drinks that hydration shouldn't be an issue, though I could be wrong. The...errr..."wastewater" indicators are clear, so I'm pretty sure I'm taking in enough fluids. I don't eat a LOT of salt, but I thought I was getting enough. I like Accelerade, and I don't think I over-do the Accelerade; I usually ride with one bottle of Accelerade and one of water. I researched the subject on the 'net and followed the advice I found, but it didn't help.
Any ideas? I wasn't able to figure out why my calfs were cramping. It got really bad on a few occasions.

I was able to finagle an appointment with the orthopaedist sooner than originally provided, so I'm really hopeful that I'll be posting workouts soon.

That's about what I thought.  It's tough to extend the runs to 6-8 miles b/c I'm taking advantage of my lunch at work.  Instead is two 4 milers/day is OK, or will  I lose something in splitting runs up?

I've been doing the interval workouts to keep my legs strong.  Basically I just set the  incline to  5% and run 1 mile,  then do something like 6x400m repeats at 8% (at 7mph or so).  For me, I think these workouts have helped my quite a bit in the mental fortitude and aided my overall speed. 

As for results, the last couple of runs I did for actual time...hmmm.  I ran the Twin Cities marathon this year, but quit at mile 21.  I was dead on pace for 3:30 (even splits for 20 miles).  Bascially 3 years ago I  was afflicted  with runner's knee (I ran through an  injury ONCE  and  it cost me 3 months of  PT).  I felt the beginning of the  pain associated with it at mile 20 and quit.  It wasn't worth it to me.  Off  the  bike for 10K and less I've maintained 7:15s or so.  Right now I can string out 6:50/mi for about 20 min. 

Last year my volume topped out about 35-40 mi/wk. I was training for the IM, so I was running about 4x/wk.  I  started increasing my running volume in November this year and have seen noticeable resutls already.  My threshold speed has dropped quite a bit (from 8.2 to 8.6 mph).  I'm getting pretty comfortable at 7:30s for extended runs. 

As for the long run,  17 is arbitrary.  I erased the 15 I went to write earlier.  17 was a good distance to make the legs hurt, but keep me away from feeling totally thrashed the next few days.

In general my fitness can handle the higher training loads.  I was doing two workouts/day + commuting by bike last year for the IM, so I know I'm not currently pushing myself near my limits.  I want to explore those limits this year.

Thanks so much for the insight!!!  I am very excited about this year and I cannot describe how much I love this every day running approach.  It's so satisfying. 

Edited by silentcs42 2011-01-08 6:50 PM

As you get closer to the longer races you'll give up a small amount doing something like 2x4mi vs 8, but outside of that no you wont lose much (and at this point/the speeds you are running, you'll probably never notice the dif.
So if you need to split them up dont worry about it, you (nor i) are anywhere close to the point where that is going to make or break the program.

The one thing to pay attention to in just running vs full triathlon training is that it can beat you up more than you think and you wont notice until its too late. You wont have the overall tired/soreness that you can with the full load of 3 sports, but bones/joints are still going to take a big pounding.

As an example, my legs feel like i'm training a LOT, but i'm just running. I was doing in my last 8 week build over the season around 25 hours a week of tri training, doing 6 workouts of each sport a week most weeks, and my legs feel like that right now, with just the running.

So keep an eye on how the little things like shins/feet feel as you build.

Once you get used to running each day it becomes habit and stops seeming so hard, and will do wonders for your races.
I'm doing two faster runs a week right now, a shorter workout focused on some quick turnover and a longer tempo run (a longer track day will come in closer to races). the other 6-10 runs a week are just easy distance, nothing faster, but i'm doing well and racing faster than ever.

Rick,

Your situation is a little tricky.  It would help if you could narrow down what you are doing for your workouts and how you go about them.  I used to cramp up on the run during a brick workout because I just got off the bike and went too fast.  Are you doing a sufficient warm-up?  When do you start getting the cramps?  Only on hard workouts?

What I would try is:  Get on your bike and spin loosely for 15 minutes (small chain ring front/middle in back).  Focus on your pedal stroke so you are making a nice circular pressure on both pedals (pulling up, forward, down, back with each foot).  After 15 minutes try picking up your workout from there.  Lower your cadence and focus on that pedal stroke.  Keep your lower back straight (you want to tilt your pelvis, not round your back) and keep loose.  Cramps can come into play when your position on the bike makes you tense in the legs.

So our club raced the other local club last night in the pool.  It was basically 45 minutes of all the 100 yd sets you could do per lane.  Each lane had 4 people.  Basically you go every 4th 100 and so on.  I'm psyched to say that our lane managed to come up with the win with 3050 yds over 45 minutes.  Avg split of 1:29.  I didn't eat much yesterday and crapped out after the first couple 100's.  My split times were 1:12, 1:15, 1:18, 1:21, 1:19, 1:22, & an awesome 1:26.

It was a great way to get some friendly competition in January.  What does everyone have in store today?  I'm out for an easy 40 minute run after I get out of work.

that's awesome on the swim race and i wish we'd have done something like that last year!


I'm heading out for a 12 mile tempo run in a few minutes, and then nothing the rest of the day

Dave, I am trying to set up my race schedule for this year. Last year I had a plan and then added and subtracted races as I went. I was also doing IMWI so I didn't want to race a lot (did about 6 races from June til IM), while this year I am not doing IM so I would like to get in as much race experience as I could. I am still debating my "A" races, but it looks like it will be Racine 70.3 and then a HM in late October. How should I structure my races around those two? I have a big month in June, right before Racine with a sprint the week before. Also I have a couple weekends where I will be racing twice, is that a good sub for training? My races are listed in my logs if you want check it out. 

So, I am supposed to do my long run today and the weather has not cooperated.  With windchill, it's currently -30c (-22f) out there.  Plus, the roads are crap, which means I can't drive into the city to meet up with the friend I usually run with. 

I've gotten good at sucking it up, but I just don't think I have it in me to suck up that cold of temperatures...  So, that means I either run at the track or try to reschedule my long run in a couple days.  I will need to do 63 circles at the track...

In good news though, the swim program I signed up for starts tomorrow.    It's with the town's tri club, and it was in danger of getting cancelled due to low registration.  There's enough people in it now though, so it will run.  I really need it.  I just learned to swim last May and I've taken 2 adult swim classes.  I feel like they really only teach the basics in the adult classes though, and I need something that is more specific to front crawl, and hopefully I'll get some good feedback on technique.

Those are some solid times in the pool! I would like to get back to that speed before the season hits. I can kill myself at about a 1:20 pace right, but can't hold it for too long, I need to get more of a base built first. I only swam about 100K last year as I was sidelined with a broken arm and dislocated shoulder for the first 5 months of the season. 

 

I don't think anyone can knock you for now wanting to run in that.  I love cold weather but we all need our limits.  I would be hesitant to even go ice fishing in that weather and I love to ice fish.

Don't get me wrong Ben....I was pretty much going as hard as I could go.  haha

YOU CRAZY CANADIANS!!! 

 

That's an awesome idea.  I need to get back into some kind of swim lessons.  I feel like I hit a wall and haven't been able to get any faster.  I should probably jump into the master's sessions.  I just can't get motivated to pay the extra fee.

Ben,


i think the schedule looks good assuming you are smart with it. If you are going to use races to help get you into shape, a few things are important to remember if racine is a goal race.

1- you'll need to make sure you adjust training accordingly and use the weeknds as your big/harder workouts. This should be pretty easy to do

2- No tapering for most races, as this will wreck your overall training load

3- You need to make sure you're still getting in the volume you'll need for racine. Depending on how fast your goal time is for that race, the super long stuff is not really needed assuming you are smart with the rest (ie you dont need to be doing 4 hour rides and 13 mi runs all the time/ever if you manage the rest of the load right).

Lastly if you recover from races/training well (as your age you should be able to), i'd not back off training, or very little up until that sprint the week before racine, race the sprint, then do a week taper from there into the half. By not tapering before the sprint you wont be able to dig yourself into as much of a hole during the sprint and will then give you the week to recover and rrest for racing. Now if you are getting close to that sprint and are beat up, i'd think about stretching the taper out a bit.

deb,

While i like the cold and all, i'd probably bag the run, or run on an outdoor track if its sheltered, no way would i do that on an indoor one unless you have a full sized one somewhere (like 350-400m, not the shorter 200m ones).

David (or anyone else)

I am only doing short course stuff this year (oly & sprint) and over the past two years have lost a lot of time in transition due to drying feet off/putting socks on.  I have gone through the results and I have lost at least one place in my age group due to transition times in each race.  So as far as I'm concerned this should be an easy place for me to make up time.  I want to race sockless.  How do I go about working into socklessness??  Do I start now?  I'm up in NH, so I can't exactly go run outside without socks on, or I'd have more problems than just blisters.  I figured you can't just do part of your workouts sockless....not like I'm going to stop in the middle and take them off.  What's the best way to go about this? 

There are a number of things/ways you can go about this, from full blown just ditching them to ever so slowly working into it, so ways around it. I'll hit as many of them as i can and you can decide which sounds best.

1- Pick a pair of shoes that has as few seams as possible Zoots have been the best i tried, but many others work, and its often just finding one that works.

2- You can either slowly start working into some runs sockless (if its cold, then only on tredmill runs), either a few runs without and some with socks, or ditching them part way through a run (not easy in the cold).

3- just race sockless and dont train that way (what i did my first season). Its a 3 or 6 mi run, most of us wont blister in that, or not till the end and it wont matter by then.

4- Use baby powder in your shoes. it will act as a sort of lubricant and will work wet or dry. (i do this for all triathlons, and all running races over 10k).

5- start doing the sockless thing in cooler weather before it gets real hot (the sweat will make the blister issue worse), use baby powder when starting out, NOT BODY GLIDE. body glide will pick up dust/dirt and will come off, the baby power will work into the shoes and over time form a soft feeling layer, and works wet or dry.

You have not run in months, i'd be careful with even 15.

have you been doing longer walks? If so i'd do something like a few min walk, 1 min run, and slowly change the ratio.

When i came back from my stress fracture i was allowed 400m every other day for a week, then 800 at a time for a week, then slowly worked up to 15 min at a time over the next two. It can take some time to get thigns back, but be careful and remember your aerobic system will be WAY ahead of your legs and what they can handle.