GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 177)

Tracey,

Wow, I didn't notice that correlation at all when I first started going clipless a couple months ago, but now that you mention it, my quads really are achier now that I have the new pedals. And that's only started fairly recently.

I didn't see too much of a difference at first speed-wise, mostly because I got the pedals around the same time as the new bike, but when I focus on doing the small circles STEVEB talked about, I feel the bike going faster. But I REALLY have to think about it for that to happen, and who wants to think too hard when they're riding? For the most part, though, I'm pretty sure I forget to go all the way around and instead just push down, hence the quad soreness.

I read somewhere (on BT, I think) that a way to practice that is to have just one foot clipped in with the other dangling so that way you're only propelling your bike with one leg. And then it becomes very clear where your dead spots are. I tried that today around the block and it was very helpful. I noticed that for the most part I go all the way around, but sometimes I forget.

Kasia


Edited by augeremt 2010-06-05 11:02 PM

ANNE -

Two weeks (G), then another two weeks(P), then three weeks(M) --- what a perfect little schedule that is for you!

And great ride today, too. You ought to be fully ready for whatever wind is thrown at you at Pboro, and after another visit to Muskoka, nothing there should surprise you at all. And as for Guelph, you must know that area really well, yes?

Where is my body when I climb, you ask. Hmmmm. As I siad to someone earlier today, I think, it amazes me that for all the time I spend doioing this stuff, I usually have to get out and do it just to make sure I'm telling it correctly! This has come up recently with Tracey in discussions about foot angles while pedaling and how often I sight when I OWS, and it has come up with you and others in reference to gearing. I ought to start exercising the courage of my convictions, maybe??

But as for where my climbing body is......it's "out there", how's that? I can tell you that I feel I am far forward, and I'm sure my chest is over my bars, even midway up the aerobars. i can also tell you that when I am working hard, i just barely get "goosed" by the tip of my saddle. I apologize if that is too rude, but it's the best way to describe it. It's nothing intrusive or potentially painful, but the contact is there. And when I say working, that's whan I'm really attacking a hill and my body is moving a lot. So, anyhow, I'm THAT far foreward that the goosing effect is just barely happening.

BUT, I will get to a hill tomorrow and take mental notes as to where my body is, as at the moment I'm just not all that sure!

KASIA -

Very true about one-legged drills showing you where the dead spots are ---- and also how prominent they are!

If you do this, find a gearing where there is some resistance. You don't want is so easy that you're spining, or so hard that it is a real effort. It's a pretty cool exercise in pedaling inefficiencies!

TRACEY once more -

The Pumpkinman sprint is on Sept. 11, and it's in South Berwick. The distances are 1/3mile/14mile/3mile. Unless they have changed the course, the biggest challenge is the run from swim exit to T1, which climbs a large hill. I think for the half they offer an award for the person who runs the hill the fastest. But maybe they have changed that part of it.

I haven't done P-man, but it has a very good reputataion. This year will be its 3rd or 4th, I think. And it's a good thing that, a la Timberman, the sprint and half-iron are held on different days!

And where have all the menfolk gone to?

Shaun?

Steve?

Mark?


Dwayne?



Arthur?





Darren?

SteveB,

More specifically, I've been eating Luna Bars, the women's off-shoot of Clif Bars I think. They tend to be crunchier (texture's always good) and tastier for me, although some of their flavors run a little sweet and tend to melt in the sun. So I may do a Clif Bar instead.

Luna Bar (Lemon Zest):

Calories 180
Total Fat 5g
Sat. Fat 2g
Trans Fat 0g
Cholesterol 0mg
Sodium 115mg
Potassium 115mg
Total Carb. 27g
Dietary Fiber 3g
Insoluble Fiber 0g
Sugars 13g
Other Carb. 11g
Protein 9g

And all this other stuff:
Vit. A 20% * Vit. C 20% * Calcium 35% * Iron 30% * Vit. D 15% * Vit. E 30% * Vit. K 10% * Thiamin (B1) 10% * Riboflavin (B2) 40% * Niacin (B3) 40% * Vit. B6 75% * Folate 100% * Vit. B12 75% * Biotin 25% * Pantothenic Acid 40% * Phosphorus 20% * Iodine 35% * Magnesium 10% * Zinc 35% * Selenium 35% * Copper 10% * Manganese 25% * Chromium 25% * Molybdenum 25%

And some random Gatorade, 8 fl oz:

Calories: 50
Total Fat: 0 g
Sodium: 110 mg
Potassium 30 mg
Total Carbs: 14g
Sugars: 14g
Protein: 0 g

The two bottles on my bike are about 24 oz each, so if I split Gatorade and water half and half I would be getting 24 oz of Gatorade (I drink a lot when I ride and have no doubt that I'll finish both bottles):

Calories: 200
Total Fat: 0 g
Sodium: 440 mg
Potassium 120 mg
Total Carbs: 56 g
Sugars: 56 g
Protein: 0 g

Geez, that seems like a lot.

I'm confused by your post, though. Do you mean that it's easier to get electrolytes with the bar, but faster to get the carbs with the gels?

Another reason I'm going for the bar is because I tend to get hungry on long rides and I figure a bar will satiate that hunger more so than a gel. I could be wrong, as I've never tried a gel. Either way, I need something because I don't really see myself stomaching a PB&J in T2. Although now that I wrote that, it'd be so delicious at the top of that climb around mile 14. Mmm...

Kasia

Yay ruggers! Maybe that means his advice is geared towards a more masochistic kind of person. But then again, triathletes are their own breed of crazy so that probably was an easy transition for him

KASIA,

On harder rides, and races, I have tried bars, gels, energy sports chews, and sports drinks and for me, the gels work the best - instant energy and they do get rid of hunger feelings.    When you are working at or near lactate threshold it is really hard for the stomach to digest anything, and hence very easy to get stomach upset, acid reflux, etc.    On the long (75-100km) plus rides that are relatively easy, bars work just fine.

Yesterday, for example, I found out how well the sports chews work.  I had a good breakfast of about 400 calories at 9:00; swam hard for 1hr at 11:00, then had a coffee and 2 homemade muffins (another 400 calories).   Didn't start riding until 2:15 and was working pretty hard on the hills.   By 3:30 I was shaky with hunger and knew I couldn't make the final group of hills without some nutrition so wolfed down a bag of Sharkies - 140 calories, 36 g carbs, 17g sugar, 30 mg of potassium and 110 mg of sodium.   Wasn't sure if they would take effect before I hit the hills but they did.   Shakiness was gone and I finished strong.

Same thing happened on my hill ride 2 days before - but I used a Cliff shot gel instead and I knew that I would get immediate energy because I use that on a regular basis.    The cliff shot gels are thick but I really like them, especially the Mocha - 100 calories, 25g carbs, 40mg sodium, no potassium.  

From my experience and what I see with alot of athletes is that you have to watch what you mix on the bike - when you start using bars, gels and sports drinks you can get quite a cocktail going that wreaks havoc on your stomach.  

I find that for Olympic distance and under I don't need electrolytes during the race.   I do drink 1.5 litres of electroyte drink before the race but make sure I am finished minimum 1 hour before races starts and then stick to water.   I make sure I get my gel into me no later than the last 10 minutes of the bike and use nothing on the the run.   Just make sure to get the electrolytes back into you immediately after race.

Until this past week I have been doing fine w/o much nutrition on the bike because the training has been on the slower side, but now that the pace is picking up and I am burning more carbs (alot) than fat, pre-training nutrition is becoming more important.  

Have fun experimenting and finding what works best for you.   We all have different stomachs, and rates of digestion, so it is a very personal exploration, so to speak.  

I LIKE this post - thanks!.    'Out there' sounds good - I think that described how I was - had my chest over bars but don't remember how far over I was.   It felt really good and much more powerful.  And I wasn't sure how much movement to have - but I remember reading in one of Lance's books about using sideways momentum of the bike AND your body to aid in the climbing.    

Talk later,

Hi everyone. Just trying to get caught up on the posts after being off the net since last Wed.

My mother-in-law passed away early Wed morning (6/2, ~ 5:00 am). We had the funeral yesterday, so, as those who have been through this know, very busy and emotional time. We all seem to be doing OK. Although more time is always desired, she was in great pain the last few weeks and it is good she isn't in that pain anymore.

Belated good luck to Shaun today.

Dang injury bug seems to be biting several of you. Been there. Focus on healing, set measurable goals and track your progress. Anne, glad you are feeling a bit more enthused.

SteveA - hope you are recovering. Biking is the one dangerous piece to training. Iowa recently passed a 5 foot passing buffer law, but I'd say 1 in 6 people don't obey it (probably don't know the law exists) and pass within 3 feet, going 55+ mph.

SteveA and all, thanks for the various posts with questions and information, I continue to learn a lot by reading through all of the posts.

Hope everyone has a great day. Mark

MARK -

Very sorry to learn about your mother-in-law; is your father-in-law still alive? Losing my father was tough, adn when my mother died it was just all so final. (I'm an only child.) Lynn's dad died in March, and her mom is struggling. Hopefully, your wife still has her father.

Good advice trhere for the injury-bit, about setting measurable goals and tracking progress. over the years I have included an amazingamount of nonsense in my logs, but the reflections on injuries and recovering from them are almost always useful.

Finally, that's good about the 5-foot buffer law, and in time most peole will observe it. Hopefully the police will be right on top of those who don't, and nail them with stiff fines. Ontario has no such law that I'm aware of, but oout here in the sticks drivers are remarkably considerate. Of course, all it takes is............

KASIA -

Yes, comparing my Clif Bar and a CarbBoom! gel, the bar provides 200mg of sodium and 250mg of potassium, while the gel offers 50mg of each. The bar has 42g of carbs and the gel has 27g, so two eensy gels provide more carbs than a big old Clif Bar, while still coming up way short of the sodium and potassium.

The bar is 68g and the gel is 41g, and in those two the bar has 250 calories and the gel has 110.

WIth sprints, most people can get by with little additional nutrition; an early swig of whatever energy drink is on the run should do it all. For me at both Escape the Cape and Pirate next weekend, i will have a gel before the swim and then what I just said -- a swig of energy drink on the run. Depending of heat (not likely to be a factor), I may not have any water bottle of board, or if there is one it will have only about 60z water.

At the olympic distance, however, things change. I can never remember the numbers, but the average age-grouper will need to replenish carbohydrates to avoid "bonking" or "hitting the wall" at worst, and just suffering and turning in a poorer-than-hoped-for performance at best. So if you think you can make it through a couple of bottles of Gatorade on the bike, and at to that a Luna Bar, then you'll probably be okay.

My oly consumption might be 3 gels starting from just before the swim, about 20oz of energy drink on the bike, and then maybe four cups (which become much less due to sloshing) of energy drink at the run aid stations. To that basic list I might add another gel, and also some portion of energy bar, with my favorite being Clif Mojo Bars -- nice and salty, VERY crunchy!!

As for pb&j, I told this to SteveA before, but if you missed it I'll tell you that I would not do another iron unless I could be guaranteed a peanut butter and grape jelly sandwich midway through the bike!! I had one wiating in my special needs bag at the midway point (56 miles) of both my irons, and it was among my top ten all-time most rewarding eating experiences. Seriously! So if you think a bite of pb&j might be what you need at T2, then by all means have a half sandwich there and grab a quick bite just as you head out on the run!

Finally, the electrolytes will be of most use to you as distances and/or temperatures increase. Most people say that sodium is useful, but Hammer would suggest that we all have sufficient stores of sodium and don't need a whole lot as a race-day supplement. There has been lots of discusssion about the race-day benefits of potassium and magnesium, and I come down on the side of them being useful at HIM and beyond, and maybe also olys. There is some good evidence that points to magnesium as helping with preventing cramping, so I'm in favor of trying to use it if I can. The Gatorade I bought today is a 710mL bottle and has 300mg sodium and 80mg of potassium -- and no magnesium or calcium. So, they seem to support the idea of adding in ample sodium, and a dash of potassium.....and forgetting the rest!

ANNE -

TERRIFIC post to Kasia!!

As for me and the bike and checking my position today ----- not yet. Big rain all day, part of the system that is over New England (and good luck to the Mooseman 70.3ers with it today!! ), but it seems to be lightening some and I'm hoping for a late afternoon foray. If not, then tomorrow for sure!

Had a blue-finger swim this morning in the St.Lawrence. The water there is at about 64, but the air temp was cooler so that meant that every recovery stroke had my hands going through cold air. Plus, the return leg was back to the east, which is the direction the waves were coming from, and it was a struggle; I only lasted 14 minutes, allowing discretion to be the better part of valor. (Ta-da!!) However, there was a 9.2km run before the swim, and for that I wore just my basic tri stuff, and that set the stage for being chilled on the swim. DOH!

No sign of Shaun yet, eh?

Hurry back, Shaun!

Holy jumpin' catfish! What happened at Mooseman International yesterday???

The results show a bike, a transition, and a run. The bike there is ~26 miles, and the posted times I checked were ~40-50 minutes, which is about half the time it takes to navigate the hills of the full bike course. The run times reflect the 10km distance......but what happened to the swim and the second half of the bike course?????

Mooseman is often plagued by cold water temps, and if the storm here todsy was really strong there yesterday, I guess they decided to cancel the swim due to a combo of cold and heavy chop. But the bike is a mystery; maybe massive flooding on some parts of the course? Have to check this out!!

(And I'm very glad I didn't give in to a mid-week thought to pay the $125 and go down there for it. WHEW!!!)

SteveB,

Jeez have one race and I don't even get some slack in not posting in a day or two???

Jeeeeezzzzz....

STEVE B!-

I did some scouting on the Pirate bike course today...Here is the scoop -

- 3 hills to speak of, the one in the middle is a good one. 
- There is a SWEET downhill between mile 6&7 - don't get to comfy in the aerobars, you are heading for an intersection    and need to take a sharp right
- As I was enjoying the nice downhill after the hill between 7-9 (that would be the good one), I regretted not dropping down a gear before the right turn onto Brown Ave (Hill#3) - it is a short kind of steep shot that by the time I was on it, I couldn't downshft because of the tension on the chain (I was already going up) so I did a bit of mashing.

Sebago Lake is warm.  Lauren swam without a wetsuit.  I needed the floation so I could keep up with her and Molly.  The waves were HUGE though - white caps.  We were not on the race course though, we couldn't get in there on the weekend.  We were in a more open spot then where the race is.  We swam about the length of the course, battling the waves (which was kind of fun, am I a masochist?)

RE: Lodging

Windham:
Dunkin Donuts - check
Places to eat - check (mostly chain-like places - Chili's, stuff like that. But I saw a few other places that looked like that they might be good too.)
Close to venue - check (10 miles)

So you may want to change to that Windham motel - they still have availability (CHECK) as it is about 10-15 miles closer than Westbrook, who as far as I know, DOES NOT have a Dunkin Donuts, but does have a MR Bagel.

Cheers!

Mandy

YEAH! Where have you been? You didn't call! We were worried about you!!!

So how was it!

I have some friends doing the HIM today - I hope they got to do the whole thing, they will be so bummed...I need to go check on them, I just got back and checked here first!

I'm assuming this is done on a bike trainer, right?

Thanks Steve. I knew about Pumpkinman, sort of. I think I knew it was in New England in late summer but wasn't sure where. For my current races, I'm thinking of staying more local since there seem to be so many around the Massachusetts area. Just because scheduling travel can be such a hassle, it'll make it easier in the future if I decide to do the same races in upcoming seasons to see how I progress. (At the time I registered for Timberman, I had absolutely no idea how common tri races were. Before that, I was planning to do the Danskin tri in Webster, Mass, but it sold out very quickly. So I immediately signed up for the next local-ish one I could find that had registration open, which was Timberman.)

I'm thinking possibly the Title 9 women's tri in Hopkinton on September 12th (also a Max Performance race).

I'm sorry to hear about your mother in law Mark. I hope you and your wife and your wife's family are all doing okay.

Anyone ever heard of "train gain"? I think this is happening to me! I hope it doesn't sound like an excuse for overeating, but since I started training for tris I'm just soooo hungry all the time. I've gained about 8 or 10 pounds since last fall when I started my training. I can attribute a few pounds of that to holiday overeating for sure, but most of it has come on since the beginning of the year.

My nutritionist told me this can be common in women. Men respond to training by becoming lean and losing weight, but women respond by getting hungrier, holding on to every last ounce of body fat, and sometimes gaining weight. She says it's evolutionary: men are designed to be lean and strong to be able to chase down prey, and women are designed to keep their body fat so they can bear offspring. Makes total sense, but it's so frustrating!

My nutritionist put my on a plan of around 1800 calories a day, which is supposed to provide enough energy to train and also support gradual weight loss (I'd really like to take off 20 pounds or so). But most days I'm just starving. I haven't lost any weight since I first started the plan in April. In fact, I've gained a couple.

I'm going to start tracking my protein intake and see if I need to increase it. She recommends 75-100g per day for me and I've kind of just assumed I'm getting enough, but maybe not.

Race Report for Hawk Island Triathlon on 6/6/2010

Official results for me (I know this because I have the sheets they were about to pull down):
Time    1:09:19
Overall   149 of 815
Age group (25-29) place   23 of 52
Swim 7:46 Rank 13/52
T1 2:08
Bike 30:17 15/52
T2 2:03 37/52
Run 27:06 31/52

Pre-Race
Up at 3:30 am with a 1.5 hour drive. Arrived at 6:10 or so. Good parking spot right outside of transition. Only what I needed, nothing more into transition. No buckets or any other fancy stuff. COOL weather. Probably low 60's so I had a bike jacket in transition.

Nutrition: whole wheat bagel with PB, oatmeal cookie and mug of coffee. ~6:45 a banana and almonds. Sipping on a Gu drink. ~ 7:45 Gu gel.

Swim
Wore tri shorts and a tri singlet. Looking at ground when wave took off. Doh!! Get going and its a flurry of people. Lots of people swimming off course left (me included) lots of slow swimmers at the start. Stopping and looking around going on. Swim into and kind of over one guy who stood up right in front of me. Doh!! Felt like this was the longest swim I've ever done. Nerves were high, HR was probably 205 to start. I never really felt like I calmed down in the water. Got into my normal holding of breath routine. Probably needed to sight more. Buoys were not greatly marked but maybe this is normal. 200ish yard run uphill across mat into....

T1
Bike was basically at bike exit per setup of going by tag number (607). Everything on including jacket as the air was colder than the water. No blunders. Kind of took time to make sure I had everything.

Bike
Quads felt dead from first stroke. Not used to that at all but then again I never have biked right from a swim. Kept repeating the beginner seminar comment of 'if you think you are in the right gear, back off one'. Tried to keep cadence high. Played leap frog with a young kid who would fidget with his Garmin on the handlebars and then take off and it'd rotate and he'd slow down...Finally got around him. Passing another guy who wants to have a conversation about the run tells me he was out drinking at 11:30pm when he was requested to take part due to a friend's family emergency. Got into a good rhythm but quads were not ever very happy. Quads were never happy. (Sidenote, got a new saddle and noticed the same thing at the end of my last right (a hard 40 miler), but didn't want to mess with position because the rest of my body was fairly good. Looks like saddle will be adjusted forward as I never had this with the old saddle. New saddle has me stretched out a bit more, which is more comfortable.) By the end my toes were numb and I think the jacket was a good idea but I'm not really sure. Too late now.

Nutrition one large water bottle of Gu Electrolyte Brew in the aero bottle gone around mile 9 probably.

T2
Took me some time to rack the bike as most people's items were a ways out from the bar. Put socks on (using 1/2 rolled down idea). Grab a gel and go. Again, no major rush.

Nutrition More Gu Drink and a gel.

Run
Kept telling myself to take it easy, no going all out you know you are going to be passed left right and center just take it easy. So I did for the most part. Pace was 8:44/mile (been trying to train at 7:30 or 8:00/mile). Kind of glad I was in the first wave, on my way back (out and back course), TONS of people on the course. Kicked it up last mile or so. Ran into guy from bike above as he was slowing down in the run. Chatted again about how we felt. Tried to keep with the positive thoughts.

BEST PART OF THE DAY (just so happened on the run): Coming into the finish, the announcer called out '...and here comes Shaun Marx NUmber 607 from Troy, MI.' Made it all worth it!! He didn't call me an Ironman but it is close enough for me...or for now...we'll see.

Post Race
Met up with the people I did the trial run with last week. Met a bunch of their friends and training counterparts. All super friendly easy going people. Missed out on the BBQ Turkey (common...815 athlete's and volunteers how can you run out of the good stuff???? Note to self: get to the post-race food PRONTO!!).

Ended up they gave out containers of HEED and gels as well as the flasks. So I got me a HEED and a flask (gel all gone), which is quite nice for the price of entry.

Overall impressions
I don't know what it was but I was not happy on the swim or the bike. Usually I enjoy those substantially more than the run but not today. Not sure why. Maybe weather (low 60's, overcast, threat of rain and rain overnight) or I really needed more sleep last night. At one point on the bike I did question myself about what I got myself into or why I opted to do this. I'm still not sure.

No groin pain, well no more than after my normal training. This is a good thing!

So, now I can call myself a triathlete....I'm ready for dinner!



Followup thoughts for next year:
RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN!!!!! I need to get more bricks in and train myself to run at a faster pace. Next is transitions. Definitely could gain some time there like leaving the shoes on the bike, don't think about taking a hat, decide before you stare at it. Oh and I got 10 feet away without my belt & number which didn't help. Swimming, I need more OWS with people around jostling. Or if I am going for a PR at Hawk Island I should go for the time trial start so I do not have to worry as much about people around me. Bike, some fit to figure out why my quads were never happy. Maybe an early season focus on speed instead of time in the saddle for next year, of course race schedule depending. Run, run more, run faster and more faster.

Edited by smarx 2010-06-06 2:53 PM