Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED (Page 18)

Paul, I would also love to be able to help you but don't have a wide enough knowledge of the shoe market to help.

Once upon a time I worked in a specialty running store and could tell you everything about every shoe, but not anymore.

This would be a great question to pose on the runnersworld.com forum (and/or the BT general forum too of course).

I believe that there are a lot of great shoes on the market and that there are likely many good choices for you.  So take a field trip to a running store and try on a bunch of shoes and see what feels best and/or comes closest to the feel you had in your favorite shoes.

If the store is any good, they allow you to run in each pair.  They will either have a treadmill, or let you run on the sidewalk outside. (I just did that last weekend with 3 different pair while I was shopping).

I actually run in yaktrax.  They are great.  You can run on any surface with them.  The only thing I noticed was running on pavement for more than like a half a mile you start feeling pressure points where the coils are under your feet.  This thread may help you also:

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=417350&start=1

Truthfully,  I rarely use them but they work well - I've also used some homemade version of these.  Once the snow falls I pretty much stay on the roads so they are at least plowed, but yeah, it gets slick on the sidewalks and some of my normal running paths.

I think you can add some swimming and biking to your running, but be careful and smart.  I'll be a little snarky and say I don't believe you can optimize training for a HM and a triathlon at the same time.  One of them has to get preference.  Which isn't to say you can't do both races and do well in both - just that one of them will not optimally prepared for and therefore you should be happy with "good enough" results.

Using me as an example, I'm prepping for a HM beginning of May.  I'm also trying to do the Jorge bike plan, but that's secondary.  So when my legs are tired from the biking, I only do two of the weekly workouts instead of all three (they're pretty intense).  I know my bike fitness will not be optimized, and that's ok with me.  The HM is my focus.

So I'd say decide what your priority will be and make sure that training doesn't suffer.  If it's the HM - keep to your running plan and only bike/swim when you know it isn't affecting your running.  If your runs are easy and you're properly recovering, maybe you can get away with all your biking and swimming, maybe not.  If the Oly is your focus, do the Oly plan and know that your HM may not be the best it could have been.  By the way, I think Oly prep is great for the HM distance run.

Are you implying some of us aren't fast?

If you want to try out New Balance, you might consider signing up for their wear test program.  I do it, and every so often I get a new pair of shoes in the mail.  I wear them for a month and then send them back (they pay shipping both ways).  The only requirement is to give them written feedback (usually at the beginning and the end of the test).  You can rank your preference for type of shoe, i.e. neutral, stability, motion control, or lightweight/racing flats.  You can also sign up to wear test their running clothing.  They have standard test sizes, so you are more likely to get their products if that's what you wear.  For women it's a size 7 shoe, but I am not sure what it is for men.  Here's a link if you want to check it out: http://weartest.newbalance.com/. 

Yes you can do this.  In fact, I think that you may end up having a better Oly performance in the end than if you did only the Oly plan as written.  The 'extra' part will almost always make you better.  In this case it's 'extra' running.  3-4 days per week of running is actually less than I would like to see most people do for triathlon training anyway.  And that's not saying anything about total mileage, just frequency.

Just pay special attention to the run intensity and don't do any hard runs that your plan may call for unless you feel fresh.  If you feel noticeably fatigued that's fine to do a slow run that feels comfy aerobically but it's not fine to do a hard run and just pile on the fatigue.

Not sure what plans you are following, but both are probably 'beginner' plans that keep the volume low while your body is getting used to triathlon training. 

There is the possibility that the volume could be too much for you...I don't know your current fitness level and training tolerance so just keep tabs on how you are feeling week to week.  (day to day don't worry about).

The HM plan probably focuses on 1 of your weekly runs being increasingly longer.  That is your key run of the week.  I would make sure that you are fresh on that day, so as you merge the 2 training plans together try not to have a hard bike workout the day prior.  But a hard bike workout the day after a hard run is fine.

I am in much the same boat here Paul.  I have only truly used 2 brands of shoes in the past 7-8 years.   I am a mild over-pronator and have used several pair of Mizuno Wave Inspires.  They worked very well for me until they changed the heel on the Inspire 7's.  I got ridiculous blisters ALL OVER my feet.  I had never had this before and I later found out what they did to the shoe.  After that I moved on to the Brooks Adrenaline series but I am currently running in 2 pair of these.  they have been a good shoe for me.  Other shoes I have tried are Asics 2160's that I thought were so horrible (for me) that I retired them after only 120 miles.

I don't have any race shoes at all but I have kind of began a search for them.

I agree 100% here.  I rarely run with my ice cleats or yaktrax equivalents on.  For instance: last weekend I carried them with me for my long run because the day before we had had some freezing rain and then some snow later, only about 2-3 inches and deeper drifts.  I thought there might be some pretty slick areas and thought it best to be prepared, so I took them......and never used them.  By using the techniques Jeff described I was able to navigate very well through the snow just fine, never having any close calls or even a slip.

I would encourage everyone to purchase something similar to the yaktrax for outdoor running and, at a minimum, carry them with them just in case.  They are very inexpensive when you consider a broken bone or a sprain that keeps you away from training.  Just make sure you stop and put them on when necessary.

Yeah!  Who does he think he is?

Seriously though, the point of Jonathon's post and link is that running easy can be a tremendous benefit to speed and LT gains.  As an example I'll use myself and certainly not to brag but to provide the "proof in the pudding."

I went back and looked at my race log at the same race on the same course over 3 years.  It was a 4 mile race that I love to run here in Fort Wayne.  The only variable for the races were the weather conditions and the form of training I had pursued over the course of the latter 2 years.  The 2009 Galloping Gobbler race I ran a 29:52 (7:28) in 2010 I ran a 27:16 (6:49) and this past years' race I ran a 25:55 (6:29).  The difference for these races and, what I believe are pretty large speed gains, the times differentials was the many, many miles of easy runs that set me up well.

My logs for 2009 are unavailable to me because I logged them on a different site but an estimated distance would be close at 550 miles.

2010 miles 884

2011 miles 1504

Most of miles over the last 2 years have been easy but I have thrown in some hard tempo runs.  But the huge bulk being on the easy side.

Dirk.  Glad to have you posting today.  I know your wife is pretty sore and I imagine you are home nursing her. 

Thanks Jeff!  She is pretty sore but she's pretty tough too.  I have had to tell her to lay and be quiet several times so I can do some things for her.  I even got off the trainer so I could make her more comfortable in her "sick spot" on the couch.  She is doing well  but is reluctant to "bug me" when she needs something.  She doesn't seem to understand that I want to be bugged. LOL

Swim commentary.

Something happened this week in my swimming.  Something good.  More on that in a minute.  First some setup...

For the past 4 years that I've struggled as a swimmer I've noticed something.  Over those 4 years swimmers have come and gone from our Master's team.  Many of them fit a profile.  The profile is that of an ex-swimmer.  What I mean by that is that they were a competitive swimmer in their youth.  Invariably they join in explaining that they are horribly out of shape and haven't swam in years.  In a few cases they look like couch potatoes too.

Then they get in the water and proceed to beat me by 15-20 seconds per 100.  Afterwards, they talk about how hard that was and how poorly conditioned they are!

Fact #1:  I am in much better cardiovascular shape than they are.

Fact #2:  These fast people have technique flaws I can spot. (I might too, but think my technique has gotten good enough)

Fact #3:  I can often sprint a 25 as fast as these great swimmers.  (another clue re. technique)

So what's the deal?  I can think of 2 possibilities.

1) Vast amounts of swim training in their youth created changes, adaptations in their swimming muscles on the cellular level making them more efficient in swimming.

2) Some magical mystery that eludes me.

Now.  Back to my story about something in my swim changing this week.  I have no idea what triggered this, but can speculate....Sunday I was hurting so bad in my legs and lower back that I took a muscle relaxer.  Monday was a stellar swim.  Today I was super sleepy operating on 2 days in a row of around 5 hrs of sleep with the other days this week around 7.  So I was bleary-eyed and honestly SLEEPY while swimming.

So what happened?  Suddenly as I swam I didn't need air like I usually do.  I think my usual pattern of swimming was to deal with my oxygen demands by relaxing my arms and legs (go slower) and 'working' my breathing.  This week it reversed and I was 'working' my arms and legs and relaxing my breathing.

It's hard to describe it, but I guess I just began to breath in much the same way I breath on dry land while jogging.  I mean by this that I had a relaxed abdomen, diaphragm, thoracic region and trusted the air would be there.  And I found I could work quite hard with my arms and even legs without going in to oxygen debt.

It's pretty cool.  So I may have identified #2 above...that secret trick that has been eluding me.

Does this resonate with any of you?

Absolutely.  I say go for it.  I think that you can fairly easily complete both plans at once.  Like Jeff said running more is going to leave with a better feeling on race day in a triathlon.  It will leave your legs better prepared for the transition from bike to run.  And you should have a pretty good HM to boot.

As far as injury I don't think it's asking for any injuries at all.  You will have to be smart about it by following the 10% rule with run volume increases.  Keep the run intensity low and allow the increase in volume slow.  I am sure you will be dropping the running from the triathlon plan and just follow the swim and bike plan.  The added running will likely require a lot of 2-a-days but there is nothing wrong with that either.  (I have been doing 2-a-days for a long time.)

Just as Jeff said, you have to pay attention to your body and take rest days as needed (particularly for running).  Taking this approach will allow you to get the the races properly trained and injury free.

Sometime this seems to happen to me on random days.  I have never put anything together and figured it was just a good swim day.  Maybe a "swimmers high" kind of thing.  By the time I get back to the pool I have forgotten what I had been doing that made it feel so good and it becomes lost.  I am planning a swim on Monday evening and I may try to replicate the breathing you are talking about.

Since I just started running in 2011; the only shoes I have any experience with are Brooks Adrenalines. I ran last year in the 11 model. Now I’ve replaced them with the 12 model.  I’m not as happy with the 12’s as I was with the 11’s. It isn’t a specific thing I can pinpoint, but I just don’t feel as good in them. I’m looking at getting another pair of running shoes so I can alternate using them.

I can definitely tell the difference in my swimming (trying to implement improved technique) just in the short time I spent yesterday in the pool. I still need a breather after 200 continuous and I only had time for about 400 yards yesterday, but my time per 100 was considerably faster than previous swims.

I’m still in that “working my breathing” place that Jeff posted about getting out of though. So clearly I still have a lot of room for improvement.

Dirk – Praying for a quick recovery for your wife. My wife had her gall bladder removed about 12 years ago. The entry point scars are so small now you wouldn’t notice them unless you new to look for them. The only reminder that she even had the surgery is the fact that the surgeon’s kids happen to be among the fastest runners in town, so we see their names at or near the top of every local race.

On a personal note this week: 

On Monday of this week I met with my brother for about 5 hours.  He had talked to me about meeting with him and helping him make a major life decision that would affect everyone in the family.  We sat in my truck at a local Starbucks and discussed a possible move to Wyoming.  He has been employed by the same power company as I have and is a well respected Lineman himself (takes after his older brother I guess LOL).  He wants to live in the Rocky mountains and work for a power company there.  He had already interviewed by the time he told me and was expecting a job offer this week.......He got the call last night.  Needless to say I'm not excited about his move but I can't blame him for wanting to get out of the flat land of northern Indiana.

Tuesday night my daughter had a pretty good swim meet.  We are getting very close to the end of her swimming career and I am not particularly happy that it's almost over.

Then you all know that my wife had surgery which she is doing well BTW.  She has been sleeping on and off today and trying to get rid of the 3 bags of IV fluids that she was given yesterday.

Then last night I found out that my nephew's house caught fire.  At this point it appears the fire was caused by an overheated bathroom fan and the fire was contained to 2 bathrooms and smoke and water damage to a couple of bedrooms.  The good news from that was that his wife was in Ohio visiting her family with their child and Jeremy was the only one home (Camp Lejeune, NC).  He got the animals out and then post on FB that he was remodeling with a pic of the scene.  They were blessed that he was there ad the rest of the family was gone.

Well.......it's been an exciting week, I guess.

Dirk.  This means we can all meet in Wyoming for training camps. 

Sounds like a plan.

Wow, that's a lot on your plate Dirk.  So glad that given all that could have happened, everything worked out relatively well.  Remember that training stress comes in all forms, so pay attention to your body this week and for a while going forward.

Hopefully your wife can relax and let you care for her a bit.  I know it's tough for people who are usually givers to become receivers.  They don't understand how much they blessed you by allowing you to help them.

Your swim story is absolutely my experience.  What little swim training I've done has been all about being relaxed in the water.  I know it's controversial on this site, but I really learned to swim using TI.  Not that I did all the drills or really adhere to everything in their program, but I have learned to completely relax in the water using their various methods, and actually let the water "hold you up" if that makes sense.  I think due to my being so relaxed in the water I swim much faster with less effort than I "should" be able to, given my form and level of training.  The core area has all the big muscles and controls breathing to large extent, so especially relaxing there is helpful.

Watching my friend and pseudo coach swim confirms this as well.  He's one of your profile types - ex-D1 swimmer who specialized in the 1650 (back on the days of yards).  When he jumps in to show me something, he breezes through 1:10 hundreds without even breathing heavy, and I can't figure out where the speed comes from since it looks like not much is happening.  But he does look super relaxed and smooth.

I decided to look and found out there is no Adizero XT for women.  You could consider the men's shoe 1.5 sizes smaller than your woman's size.  BTW, always buy adidas 1/2 size larger than you normally wear so if you wear a women's size 8.0 Nike or whatever, you would want a size 7.0 adidas men's shoe.

I did find a women's Adidas trail shoe that did not look like a good option.  The mid-sole stack height was too high which tells me it's a road shoe design with off-road tread.  Won't have the stability you need on the trail.

Browsing around adidas.com I found this shoe that looks like it's designed much like the Adizero XT and may be your best bet in a women's trail shoe from Adidas:  http://www.shopadidas.com/product/womens-running-thrasher-trail-shoes/MI960?cid=G48155&breadcrumb=svZu3Z1z13y9lZ1z139kx

But feel free to look for dedicated trail shoes from other manufacturers.  Just be on the look out for the shoes with too much stack because they are unstable. 

My Adidas Adizero XT3 have a heel stack of 20mm while the women's Response Trail has a heel stack of 30mm.

The lower stack gives up cushioning, but is necessary for off-road stability.

All this running shoe talk has me thinking.  I am an over pronator, and I have wide feet.  I originally went to a running store and tried tons of shoes.  It was tough finding shoes to fit in the toe box which felt reasonable while I ran.  I finally settled on New Balance 760.  They since have "upgraded" to the 860.  I'm very comfortable in these shoes and love the fit and feeling.  They are very much a stability shoe, nowhere near minimalist.  I use them for all my training and racing.  I am more of a mid foot striker than a heel striker, and I don't particularly over stride.  My natural running cadence is around 88 (one foot) so 176.

Should I pursue finding a lighter version shoe for racing, or just continue to race in these shoes?

I know I'm not a woman and have no idea what it's like to be one.  But I have heard that women have much the same issues as men when it comes to sitting on a triathlon bike.

The women specific saddles for road bikes are designed different in an attempt to better fit the different shape of the tush (and thank God for that!).  Now, when on a triathlon bike in the typical 'aggressive' position (I don't know if that describes you or not) the pelvis is rotated forward and your tush isn't really touching the seat.  Instead it's a more delicate portion of the anatomy.

But in this area men and women have the main nerve located in the same place.  So the seats designed to solve this problem for men often work well for women too.  I know that a lot of women use and like the Adamo saddle.  Another good one that works well for me is the Cobb V-Flow.  Google those and take a look at the picture and see what you think.

These saddles aren't cheap but if they work for you they are worth it.  The Cobb saddles can be purchased, used and returned for a full refund if you don't find the comfort you were looking for.  So that's a risk free option (minus shipping I suppose).

I'm also not a woman and would not claim to understand ANYTHING about them either, but I tried a ton of saddles to alleviate numbness on rides.   Saddles are very personal since our anatomies are all slightly different, but the two Jeff mentions are great choices to help eliminate the pressure when in the typcial aggressive TT position.  I tried a ton and then finally tried the Adamo.  It was pure bliss from the first ride, and no issues since. Check with your LBS - some let you try them out before you buy.  Be careful though since it can take a while to really know if a saddle is right.

As a pronator it would be possible that you would do just fine without a motion control shoe.  It's also possible you wouldn't.  Just know that stopping pronation isn't an imperative for all runners.  I used to pronate a decent amount as a high school runner but fixed it.  I used to use pronation control shoes but used fly weight racing flats and spikes with no problems.

If your competitive zeal is such that you want all the advantage you can get out there on race day then I think you should get a dedicated race shoe.  There are a lot of options, especially now that 'minimal' running is such a craze.  This means that there are now shoes designed as 'lightweight trainers' that fit the bill very well as a racing shoe either for a heavier runner or for longer races (like HM to Marathon).

On the topic of pronation control trainers...I just began training in a pair of Nike Equalons.  They are a pronation control shoe and also (ironically) rated as the most cushioned shoe on the market this year.  If Nikes will fit your foot I suggest you consider them as your training shoes.  Cushion is never bad for training.  They are actually fairly light too, I was surprised.  And I DO believe that they now come in widths.