GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 186)

STEVE B

Hey, had a question about bike cleat position.  One of the things I've noticed is that on very long rides, the feet tend to get uncomfortable.  I'm sure part of that is just the fact it's an 80+ mile ride.  I don't have any "hot spots" though.

So I started playing with my cleat position on the shoes (speedplay pedals).  This weekend, I moved the cleat back toward the heel - maybe an 1/8th to 1/4 of an inch?  I "felt" that I might have been too forward with them, as the discomfort is all toward the front of the foot, just behind the toes. 

I did this before my spin session on Sunday (20 minute hard ride followed by running), and yesterday, my glutes were SORE!  I thought I might have done the Buns of Steel DVD while sleepwalking at night they were so sore.  I felt I had more power on the bike, especially at the bottom of the pedal stroke, and (between say 5 and 9 on the clock), but that could be the placebo effect. Who knows.

Anyway, wanted to get your thoughts on cleat position.  Is there a "too far" forward or back?  Is it best to do by feel within a certain range?  I was very sensitive to any knee discomfort, but so far, they feel fine.  I know I can always go in for a FIST fitting, but wanted to save the dollars if I could.

Thanks!

 

SteveA,

Just now getting to these posts, so pardon the delay.

It'd be great to meet up with a GrooveTimer (I feel so left out ) this season! I'm still deciding between the sprint and Oly, but I'll definitely be there for one of them. Hope to see you out there!

Kasia

LISA (hooslisa, that is) -

You're welcome here ANY time at all; there's always a room at the inn for you!

You know, after I did Timberman sprint last year, you made a comment about driving such a long way for such a short race, and as I live and breathe --- that was one of the reasons I scheduled TWO races for this weekend. It doesn't exactly make the driving any shorter, but two races sort of justifies it.......a bit more......don't you think? Maybe?

Of course, two races means two entry fees, and an extra day of meals on the road, and another night of accommodations ----- which is why I sucked it up and stayed in the tent Friday night. Noble sacrifice, or what??

Just before coming over here I looked at Whaling City tri, July 25, which is 0.25/11.7/3.3, and it was like I was wearing one of those W.W.J.D. bracelets, but with the J changed to a L -- What Would Lisa Do? Well, Lisa would NOT drive 9 hours to do Whaling City tri, so.......

Actually, i sometimes joke with Lynn about WWLD, the L there of course being for Lynn. She has always been the Voice of Reason around this here relationship, and the tragedy is that I have not always followed her Sound Financial Reasoning. It is amazing that she hasn't bludgeoned me with a checkbook, or pelted me with coins, or forced me to swallow credit cards; thank godd she's pacifistic by nature!

But, holy cow, I digress! Thank you for the compliments, I feel pretty good about my bike and run times these days. I am running better/faster now than I was in my "prime", which was roughly '04/'05. This is happening consistently, and I need to try to ridse it as long as possible. I have virtually all of my a.g. peers' run times get slower, yet mine are somehow improving. Has my Newton experience for 2.5 years now made me a more efficient runner? I do believe it has!

And it was fun seeing my name on the list of top 25 bike splits for Escape the Cape. Such notoriety!

I've been "aaaarghing" at Lynn ever since I got home Sunday. I don't think she ever found it alluring or fetching. In fact, I think she is getting quite tired of it. Aaaargh?

Anyone? Aaaarghh?

Yes! The 83 is me from Columbia! I hope you went out and found some clear shellac and painted over the tag so I am there, forever. It's kind of like when I went back to my summer camp from when I was about 11, went in cabin #2, proceeded to the top bunk, right back --- and there was my name, carved into the wood. All power to defacement! That was about 1960, and I was there in about 1994, so the longevity impressed me. (Of course, names on gravestones have a way of staying there for decades, even centuries, so I better not get too cocky!)

AAAAAARGGHHHH!

And ahoy to Ryan!





Edited by stevebradley 2010-06-15 6:11 PM

Is anyone interested in an Ironman in Texas, just a few miles from my house?

Ironman triathlon returns to The Woodlands

Updated: 06.15.10
Area triathletes have been playing the guessing game for more than the the last two months, “Will there be an Ironman next year in The Woodlands or not and if so, when?”

The waiting game, though, may soon be over.

According to an agenda and working documents posted online Friday for Thursday’s Board of Director’s Workshop for The Woodlands Township, it appears very likely that the Memorial Hermann Healthcare System in conjunction with the World Triathlon Corporation, the owner of the Ironman brand, is set to bring the challenging 2.4-mile swim, 112-mile bike and 26.2-mile competition to The Woodlands.

“I think bringing an Ironman to The Woodlands would be huge,” said USA Triathlon-certified coach and former pro triathlete Kim Hager of The Woodlands. “Every major city has a marathon, but there are only a handful of states that have an Ironman. It would truly be an honor to be selected to host an Ironman.”

The impacts, she said, are immense to the local triathlete.

“The opportunity to train on the course is an obvious benefit, but more than that an Ironman is a journey,” added the 2004 U.S. Olympic Trials marathon participant. “It will bring athletes together, friends will be made and it will also be an opportunity for those who maybe could not afford to travel to an Ironman to participate in one.”

Last year’s Ironman Florida finisher Greg Gibbons of The Woodlands couldn’t agree more, but he – and other area Ironman competitors — hopes an announcement will come soon.

“Ironman training programs require four to six months of preparation and because you sign-up a year in advance, your race schedule must be well designed,” said Gibbons. “Most athletes are already thinking about next year’s races, prior to the completion of this year’s competitions.

“The speculation surrounding an Ironman race here in The Woodlands adds complexity to anyone’s race plan. I would love to do an event here but I will be closed out of other summer races (Coeur d’Alene, Lake Placid) waiting for them to announce it.”

Ironman races usually sell out a year in advance within a day or two of the current year’s event, making the ruckus over the proposed lottery for this year’s Chevron Houston Marathon and Aramco Half Marathon look like child’s play.

Therefore, the timing is especially critical for those, like Gibbons, who are eyeing Ironman Coeur d’Alene for 2011 as it will be contested just four days after next week’s Board of Directors Meeting.

For area athletes, like Gibbons and others, who are competing this fall in Kona, Cozumel, Florida and Arizona, moving their Ironman race calendars up a month has an element of risk.

“Having a spring or summer race in Texas would necessitate an abbreviated rest period,” he said. “Sometimes a month of preparation or recovery can make a big difference. To race again in May after a November race would prove difficult and increase potential for injuries.”

Then there’s the Texas heat.

While triathlon-focused websites such as slowtwitch.com have had triathletes desiring a late April or early November Ironman in The Woodlands, much of the conjecture seems to be pointing to the Memorial Day weekend.

If so, the conditions for an Ironman, could be some of the most difficult of any of the current 23 Ironmans worldwide, including Kona and China.

However, the last five Sundays prior to Memorial Day, according to weatherunderground.com, have averaged a high of 86 degrees and a low of 72 degrees. This year and two years ago, though, temperatures have soared into the low-nineties.

“Most experienced triathletes, particularly those who train in this region, are not naive to these conditions,” he said. “Having a well-orchestrated nutrition and hydration plan is the key to staying out of trouble regardless of your finishing time.”

Something Gibbons can uniquely speak to as a local emergency medicine physician.

“With the potential for high temperatures and humidity, the medical staff will have their hands full regarding dehydration, heat- and electrolyte-related illnesses,” he added. “The majority of the field will be starting the marathon portion of the race during the hottest part of the day. These conditions can be brutal even for the smartest, well-prepared athletes.”

LISA

ANNE -

Where to begin?!?

I have done two races that involved a Guelphish run halfway through the swim, and one that had TWO runs -- Riverkeeper here in Ottawa, where the course is 500m, but the whole swim is 1500.

The first was IMLP, and I just kind of loped it and felt good. The second was Riverkeeper, wher the run was very short, yet I lengthened it by pounding out of the water too early, and then running into it for too long. Doh! Not having fully absorbed that lesson, I did Fronhofer Tool Triathlon two years ago, and that featured a long run between the two loops of 750m. I swear, it took me about a minute to feel I had my system under control, and I would've liked a nickle for every beat above 150 my heart was pounding at! Negativo!!

However......I think my total swim time was slightly improved by pushing the mid-swim runs. It is definitely not pleasant, but part f the unpleasantness comes from also trying to resume a "normal" swim effort. So, if I can do the run briskly, and then go at about 85% of swim capacity until my system allows me to get it back to 100% capability....I think I end up better off.

One trick with any swim exit is to not stand up until you are clearly hitting the bottom with each stroke. To do otherwise is just asking for slogging through water that is still too deep to do that effectively, and it takes a toll to get those knees up high enough so that you are moving quickly.

Many people do the "dolphin" thing as they begin to hit the relative shallows, but I have never mastered that; in fact, I have hardly tried it. That should maybe be on my to-do list, real soon.

Again, loping worked well for me at IMLP....but what exactly is loping? I know what loping is for me, but how to explain it. Hmmmm. A kind of elongated shuffle, with a forward lean? Fett not coming up high at all? "Flowing", perhaps? A comely gliding across the sands, water lapping at my ankles ---- a vision in neoprene? (OMG...........)

Uh, let me know how you decide to handle it, but I highly recommend against a passionate sprint!

As you exit the water for good, the swim complete, count to five and then hit the button on your watch. That way you will have a time that accurately reflects your actual swimming effort, and then you'll also have the posted Sportstats time that reflects that dopey run to the mat on the top of the hill. Illegitum non carborundum!

Congrats on getting the cold out of the way, well before race day. Better then than now, to be sure! It sounds like a miserable bugger, however, and I'm sure that did nothing for creating a positive penultimate weekend before Guelph. Bah!!

Excellent, though, on the ITB and the general knee porblems. That is very encouraging! Again, it looks like your patience is being rewarded!

This week as you outline it looks perfect. You have done more than enough in terms of biking -- the fitness is there, and then some, I am sure. And you have pretty much methodically, systematically, kept plugging away at the swim. I think you will be fine, Anne!

Finally, Neil from the other group swears by homeopathic formulations that feature Arnica (I think specifically Arnica montana). This comes as a cream and also can be done orally. You might want to try Arnica, just to add some variety to your treatments. I have never read anything negative about it, and as I said, Neil swears by it (and has used it for several different problems).

LISA (lufferly, that is) -

VERY intriguing! Wasn't it Memorial Hermann Healthcare that took over corporate sponsorship of Lonestar, the one out of Galveston? Keith Jordan, RD par excellance, was the original person behind Lonestar (he's also Timberman and Mooseman and Longhorn), and if he's willing to climb into bed with MHH, they HAVE to be good people and very supportive of triathlon; Keith would accept nothing less!

I will have to follow that and see how it unfolds. Keith has been kicking around the idea of a full iron for many years, so I can see this as having him down there (where his in-laws live, near Houston) for Lonestar at the end of April, and then hanging around and getting the iron set for a few weeks later. it would be around Memorial Day, yes? Of course, that's assuming that he is behind this, somehow, someway. Let the speculating begin!

STEVE -

I wish I could help you more about your experiments with cleat position, but that's something I've never tried -- wouldn't dare to! Tnatis not to say that you shouldn't try it, but really only refers to my own astounding ineptitude with anything even remotely "mechanical". In fact, many people have tinkered with all aspects of their position, and have enjoyed great success, so i hit the ball back to your end of the court ans quickly exit through the side door!

But wait! There's this:

I have had two professional fittings, and both were done with the Serotta system (don't ask....). I know there is also the FIST system (don't ask.....), and the person who gave me my great fit, Ian Buchanan of FitWerx, is trined in both, but uses the Serotta primarily, he has lots of respect for FIST, however, so that is probably equally as vaild as Serotta.

I think that FIST was started by Dan Empfield, the owner of Slowtwitch, and I'm sure there is a big link on the site for FIST info --- although you probably have that already. But if not.......

About the only other thing I know, or think i know, is that fittings involve a plumbline to help determine how optimally one is positioned. Have you involved a plumbline in your machinations? It might not be necessary for small adjustments in cleat position, and maybe of higher importance is that you felt more power at the bottom of your stroke, and unless you begin to feel even the smallest amount of discomfort, I'd rely on that as being a positive. I doubt it's strictly placebo effect you experienced!

Finally, getting back to fittings....yes, they are expensive. I think mine with Ian was about $380, but that also involved about five hours. And given that it solved a lengthy serious issue with S-I joint pain, it was well worth it --- but iit is still alot!

HOOSLISA -

Yes indeedy. Money and time well spent!

SHAUN -

And with Lisa (hooslisa) bopping over from the other group, i'm reminded that you asked about Triple-T, and I didn't say anything about it. The thing here is that Lisa is thinking about doing the original one, the hard-core one, in Ohio, next May, so that's where the reminder comes in.

I know second-, third-, and so on stuff about Triple T, and am thinking of it myself for May, which is why I might do the new Triple T, in NC, in October. I think of this as Triple T "lite", as it's on a mostly flat course -- as opposed to the Ohio course, which is torturingly hilly. Plus TTNC gets you at the end of the season, as opposed to TTOH which nails most people when they are scrambling to build up their strength and mileage after the winter.

More to follow!

You are damn right we mind you poaching over here!!!!

Just kidding.

No kidding eh, who is this Steve Bradley guy??? Some kind of super fine aged wine by the sounds of it!!

Shaun

Edited by smarx 2010-06-15 8:02 PM

Lufferly Lisa,

Keep us up to date on that Woodlands race. May not be of big interest to me for May 2011 but 2012 is not too far away (well at least planning a race season....). I am intrigued by the idea of a race in that area of Texas. It would also give me a good excuse to visit a friend who lives in Houston for a couple days.

Very very cool though. I'm envious you might live that close to an IM and get to experience some or all of the craziness!

Anne o Anne,

I must thank you for mentioning Chris Carmicheal's Food for Fitness. I'm hooked on it. I'm about half way through and keep flipping to the recipes and telling myself umm that sounds good AND I could even cook that!

Also with what I have learned and already read in other books this is a great resource to tie the training together. Being in my 'peak' season albeit compromised, I've noticed a difference with how much I'm eating and the overall body changes.

Thanks again for mentioning it. What he tries to teach will definitely be playing a role later this year in my transition phase and build into next year.

Oh and just in case anyone was wondering...running sucks.

I don't know what I did but man my pace has fallen off like a train falls off the tracks. Left calf still sore from after Hawk Island. Right shin still sore. I'm going to try and foam roll these out 2-3 times daily now.

Also, with Steve's continued success with the Newton's and my own self diagnosis of how I run I am getting quite interested in having someone look at how I run and tell me if I am mid/fore foot striking or not. I think I am un-intentionally but really have no idea.


Further HERNIA update....

Got the official letter in the mail from the General Surgeon that he recommends surgery. Talked to a nurse and got a referral to a Sport's Medicine doctor for July 19th. The ONLY restriction is on heavy lifting. Otherwise I was told to keep doing what I am doing. If I want to race go ahead but listen to my body.

So, Welland is still on for June 26th. From there I'm going to wait for the Sports Doc's opinion but I am looking towards 2 olympics in August/September.

Right now I am planning to have the surgery in mid Nov. Main reason is I have to be out of my house on Oct 31 and need to be able to move myself. Also , I can take 6 weeks off to recover before January which puts me about 25 weeks out from Welland or 29/30 to Steelhead HIM.

Hi Denise,  

It was a fun ride.   Had never heard of it before but it was their 13th year.   2 years ago they had about 850 riders, last year 1300.   Seems to be getting popular.   They offer several distances from 10km, 25, 50, 60, 72, 100 and 160.    There were staggered start times so we were spaced out a bit, and within each distance they would send off 50 or so riders at a time.   Got a bit hairy during the first 5 km though because we were right into the hills and alot of people were pretty slow getting up them and riding 4-5 abreast.  Dah.  

Very bad bike manners as well - no one indicated when they were passing you.   They were adamant about that on the Florida tour - everyone said 'passing on your left' as they came up to you.  

Probably wasn't the smartest thing for me to do with a cold and fever.   It was a drizzling mist the entire ride, but I really enjoyed it.  

I remember when doing a 40km ride was a REALLY long one and now 75km seems short.   

I used to use a mirror for the first couple of years and for some reason decided to take it off.   Didn't see many people in races with mirrors, I guess.   I felt naked without it initially, but practiced checking over my left and my right shoulders until I could do it w/o swaying over the center line (yikes!), and am very comfortable w/o a mirror now.  

KASIA -

Don't feel left out! In time, we will all establish personal contact with at least one other person from the gropu. Trust me!

Of course, you could accelerate the process by traveling east for a few weeks/races, you know. You're welcome in scenic Casselman, Ontario, any time your little heart desires!

STEVE,

Here is what I put into my log today after my swim/bike brick.    At least I know I should be able to swim the distance - won't be pretty or fast for this one. 

SWIM:

Guelph Lake. WIND 20 km/hr E. Little waves wanting to push us to the right, and got a few mouthfuls of water breathing to that side, but stuck with bilateral breathing.

Spent about 4 minutes warming up and then started our first 750 loop. Had my intermittent watch timer set for 7', 3'30", 7' (for about a 2.20 pace).

First loop started out pretty good but sighting is pathetic; really puts a 'kink' in my stroke; by the end of the first loop wasn't sure I would do the 2nd - my breathing/lung capacity isn't quite back to normal with cold still lingering; thought maybe stay close to shore, but after running along the beach for 2min and then back into the water, I seemed to have a better feel than the first loop.

2nd loop we were in the water an extra 1'30" because when we started running on the beach the timer was starting it's next 3'30" interval but it didn't take that long to run the beach so we started swimming with 1'30" left on that interval, before the 7' interval started.

Swam right into shore until knees touched sand, then stood and had wetsuit off and down to hips by time I hit the grass.

Ran up the hill and was good until 2/3 up and heart was really starting to beat and legs felt heavy so walked to top and across the road. (I think I did the same in my Oly last June).

Took me 29" to get wetsuit off. Stuck a bit at calves - didn't put any glide stuff there.

BIKE:

Bike stuff was laid out - put wheel on bike and left fairly quickly

WIND - 15 km/hr E.
5km out and back of Guelph I race route.

Put bike shoes on and walked to 'mount line' and didn't start out fast. Wind says E but it was at my back so I would think S, because normally they say north and it is in my face.

Wanted to pick up the pace for this ride but not race the 10km. Just get a feel for going harder and faster after the swim.

The hill got my HR up to 155 and then you continue with a long, gradual climb so it is hard to get the HR back down -was staying at 152 and I didn't want it that high today, so slowed down to get it lower.

Then I picked up the pace again.

Need to practice my turn arounds- need to be tighter - almost when into the gravel.

Head back for 4km but still able to cycle over 30km/hr on the flat and more on the gentle declines. About 28 on the gradual inclines.

Have to stand on the last short steep hill - I switched to the small chain ring and need to leave it in the large one because the race is almost over and the speed drops dramatically switching to the small chain.

Dismounted with feet out of shoes and landed with a running barefoot dismount.

Need to talk to Steve about race strategy for first 2-3km of bike.

It is so much easier to get faster average speeds on longer rides. Short distances require alot of all out sprinting.

My average HR was 137 and max HR 155 - 137 is in the middle of Z3, race pace training.

DENISE -

I do not use a mirror, but it's very timely that you asked that. Today i was doing a run and a woman passed me on a bike with a little mirror afixed to her helmet. This brought back a memory of poor Lynn, trying to find a suitable present for my birthday or something around the time I started triathlon, and what she produced was a mirror ---- which I never used. I am a tough person to buy stuff for, and she tries really hard, but......








Edited by stevebradley 2010-06-15 8:41 PM

STEVE,

Is there a strategy for starting out on the bike?   Like do you go off like a bat out of hell and let the HR go where it may, or do you start a little more conservatively?    I think I remember reading that once you get the HR up there it is hard to get it back down, w/o slowing down a fair bit, which I don't really want to do.  However, I don't want to burn out in the first 10km.

I really can't remember what I do, other than pacing myself so that I do have a stronger 2nd half. 

Thanks. 

I am SO glad you like his book and find it useful.   I have read it through at least 3 times and refer to it alot.  

SHAUN -

I don't think I knew that you emerged form Hawk island with calf and shin problems. Or probably i knew you had them post-race, but then they split the scene and you were fine. Calves love rollers, so do that there, and shins love ice, so apply that to them. The best ice treatment for shins is in a styrofoam cup, and you just keep peeling off the styrofoam to expose new ice. These make great ice-massaging units!

As for the kind of footstrike you have, STUDY the wear patterns on the bottom of your running. (Daily shoes usually tell a very diffeent story, so pay no attention to those.) the places you want to focus on are:
-- heel - almost certainly outside edges, but also how far back, and how much wear
-- under the ball of the big toe -- much there?
-- under side of the midfoot-forefoot -- how much (if any)?
-- front two inches of each shoe -- roughly under which toes?

That is some of the info that can tell you not only whther you strike midfoot, forefoot, or heel, but also if you overpronate, underpronate, or are mostly neutral. Let me know what you see!

As for the hernia matter, that sounds pretty promising! No restrictions on SBR stuff, and if all you have to avoid is heavyish lifting, then there's hope for an ongoing season for you. Welland, here you come!!!!!