GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 189)

TRACEY -

That is a very cool t-shirt! The place might get firebombed WHEN the Celtics win tonight, but I guess that's a small price to pay for having the courage of your convictions displayed on the back of the t-shirt!

Speaking of bars, i was quite thrilled to see the one on Onset Avenue -- Stevie B's! Were I a drinking man, i might've gone in there and raised a glass to myself, but all I ended up doing was saluting it each time I passed it, either in car and on bike.

SHAUN -

I have wanted to do Steelhead long enough that next year sounds about right. So, I will stow that away in my memory bank (which is where?.....), and have a tenative commitment to that weekend.

Of the branded races, Steelhead gets less pro and elite athletes than some of the others, and I'm not sure why that is. Well, in general, there have been so many of the M-dot and 70.3 races that have cropped up that they now tend to disperse the top athletes. It used to be just 2 or 3 M-dots, and before the 70.3s there were some half-irons that offered Kona spots, so it was those handful of races that attracted huge rafts of pros and elites. But we now have Placid, Florida, Wisconsin, Couer D'Alene, Arizona, St. George, Louisville, and Canada just across the border, and then all of those 70.3 that offer spots at Clearwater, with maybe just 4 or 5 having Kona spots as well.

The closest HIM raxce to you that has lots of the top triathletes would be Eagleman, in MD. GREAT race.......although this year for the first time in its history it was not wetsuit legal. And on top of that the swim course was likely mismeasured quite a bit long (maybe 1.5 miles rather than 1.2) which, added to big heat, made for a long day for some folks!

But I digress! Steelhead '11 is in my tentative books!

In general, I can carry a grudge against the people at Ironman, who run the M-dots and 70.3. I think they are less concerned about making races safe than they are in getting rich quick...........but having siad that, there IS a buzz at many of those events that is lacking at most others. There are problems with swimming with 2000+ others, but that experience cannot be replictated elsewhere and is worth doing at least once, I think. Some of the courses are clogged with screaming and incredibly over-the-top fans, and that too is pretty amazing. And then there's the finish, which can be a quite the circus.

But all that is not to say that the independents cannot do an iron well. Vineman has a great reputation, and probably Rev3 in Sandusky will get there too. There is alot to be said for doing 140.6 miles in something that is less frenetic than an M-dot, and that's the direction I will likley take for my next iron -- if it happens. Beach 2 Battleship is annother up-and-comer in the iron arena.

I could talk about this stuff forever! There are a couple of cool, very small HIM in northern Michigan, and I think I have mentioned Musselman to you before, in Geneva, NY -- that all that far for you! One that's been around forever is Muncie, which is probably about 3-4 hours from you. I did it in '03, and it's a good one. Blah, blah, blah!

SteveB, Anne, SteveA, other bikers,

A couple questions related to mounting and dis-mounting.

Full flying mount? What does this mean? I'm doing the stop, cleat left foot in, push off with right and swing over the seat.

I've tried in a parking lot the shoes attached without an elastic and have not figured out the best thing to do with the velcro strap to make it so I don't fight the shoe for a few hundred yards.

Flying barefoot dismounts?

I've tried the unclip right foot, swing leg over and twist out of left under braking and so far have not fallen on my head but came close once.

I think my biggest fear to landing bare foot is landing right on some pebble or hard on my heel...thoughts? Things to try?

Thanks!

Full flying mount is not as easy as you might think when you watch the 'experts'.    For the first couple of years I did what you have been doing, - running with shoes on, stopping the bike, clipping foot in, leg over and off you go.    But I really wanted to try running barefoot with the shoes on the bike.   I used elastics to hold the shoes into place so they are not flip flopping all over and dragging on the ground.   The elastics break right off once you start pedalling.  

I couldn't do the flying mount so I would have my left shoe 'open' so that I could insert that foot right away, push off and then start pedalling, getting my right foot into the shoe when convenenient.   But then I started having problems and I actually had my shoe come off the pedal a couple of times and seemed to be wasting more time, rather than gaining any time.  

Last year I went back to running with the shoes on and stopping bike, jumping on and then going.   Fast enough but I'm not happy with that and am going to practice running mounts until I get it.   A big problem is my shoes - Specialized tri shoes and the velcro strap is so strong that when I put the weight of my foot on it to get the bike going, I have a hard time getting the strap unhinged to get my foot into it.    No new shoes in the horizon until maybe next year.

I ALWAYS do a flying dismount and LOVE it.   It just feels so good and it is so much faster than running with the shoes on.   It is really easy to get the feet out of the shoes and pedal with the feet on top.    You just have to make sure you do it at the right spot so you can keep your speed up and it is a safe spot to do it.

That's so they will have an idea of what races they might want to do when they come up and visit us!      

That's so they will have an idea of what races they might want to do when they come up and visit us!      


YEAH YEAH what SHE SAID!  I say we have a Groovetimer Canada race/meeting.

  I have got to get back to work!

DEAL!!! YEAH Ice cream!! WOOT.  Keith Jordan has an ice cream place?  That is just awesome.  Think they have Milano cookie ice cream?

I am usually alone too.  I would have swam along shore on this day though if I was alon,  but this was way better cause I got to go further!

The calf is OK.  I know it is there, but it has gone down to more of a wimpering than the obnoxious yelling it was doing...which is cool.  I can deal with wimpering.  I am doing light mileage, slow and not pushing it.  I plan on 2, 3, 3 (that would be miles) this week. 

OK now work!

SHAUN -

Foot/shoes thoughts to follow.

As for Graham Beasley, I'm seeing the fees as $74 for the sprint and $85 for the olympic. And that's the late fee, too. The venue is okay, with a pretty good oly bike course and an okay sprint bike course. The runs are a bit tedious, especially the two loops of the oly (one loop for the sprint on that course is enough). Well, they're actually okay.

Evidence of faulty swim technique? Me at G.B. a few years ago, when I got a nice zebra messel slice.....on my thumb! So if that's not damning evidence of a start to the pull that is too deep, i don't know what is! Embarrassing! Aside from that, though, the swim is pretty nice, just as long as the current isn't strong. That makes the out parts of each swim a bit tough, but the flip side is a nice push behind you on the back parts. (Part, or parts, depending on the race distance.)

I'm disinclined to race there this year, mostly because I will have done Musselman sprint the day before, and partly because I may have a commitment with Lynn on Sunday. However, if you were hellbound and determined to race there, I would do it....or at the very least show up and cheer you on and all! So, that's not the Timberman recon with Mandy, which is the next week, but rather my Musselman commitment.

Onwards!

SHAUN again -

I do the flying dismount thing, but not the flying mount. I would love to do that, but my flexibility is so pathetic that were I to try it, I would leave my groin behind at the mount line!

My mount is quite modified, but still faster than the conventional one, which has one clunking up to the line with their cleats on, then coming to a full stop and swinging a leg over, and then scratchin' and scrapin' around to get the cleats locked into the pedals.

For mine, the cleats are already attached and I am barefoot. I run about 3-6 feet beyond the line, and breaking stride slightly I step onto the left pedal which I have positioned just slightly higher than parallel to the ground, and as I force it downwards I swing the right leg over -- and then I'm off. This works really well......unless there are problems with getting my foot/feet into the cleats. For some odd reason, i had that problem with both feet at Escape, and what makes that really odd is that the road was perfect for it -- wide and flat. But I just clutzed it, and it wasn't until I was about 2 minutes from transition that I managed to get both feet secured.

I never try to do this right away, and just rely on my bare feet on top of the shoes to get myself up to some decent speed. So when I have problems like at Escape, I have to give it up for a few moments, get the speed up once more, and when it's there, try again. There has to be some "cut-off" point at which the time spent getting the feet in the cleats and fully secured negates the time saved in not fuddling about at the mount line. I would say that 1 in 10 race leave me wondering if I saved any time at all, but at least that means that 9/10 times it's been worth the effort.

For my dismount, that is mostly flying. I approach the dismount line at considerable speed, and maybe 30 feet from it I swing the right leg over and keep it behind my left leg. Both hands are braking, but as little as I feel I can get away with, and then right before the line I hit them hard and I guess that kind of propels me forward. In this act my right leg passes inside the left one, and I do believe that it's the right one that makes contact with the ground first. (This is yet another instance in which, for all the times I've done this stuff, I can't replicate it in my head with complete confidence. I will check during today's ride.) I LOVE doing this, and it's sort of fun to see the dismount marshals get apoplectic as I'm not slowing down as much as anyone else is; I like to think of myself as a runaway freight train, approaching the station at the end of the line!

However, there are risks to it, and it's just a matter of time before I get badly bit. There is always the risk of getting snagged swinging the leg back over, and that's why for sprints and olys I use only one short bottle (on the right) behind the seat, and in half irons I will have a short and a tall, but the short is on the left, which is the side the leg is descending on. So, it's either no bottle on the left or a short one, and this is just to avoid getting caught up in the bottle top. The other big concern is landing with a toe or two curled downward, and you can imagine the possibilities for misery in that case! At Pirate on Sunday, I came off the bike very fast and hard ---- and somehow spasmed my left calf. I felt it for most of the run, but it never got worse and hasn't bothered me since. But thinking about it, it's a reasonable thing to happen --- to require the calf to work very hard cycling, and then suddenly require it to stop all that and land forcefully.

My race wheels don't involve my pedals spinning when I'm running wth the bike; that is, the pedals just stay in the position where I have set them before I left T1 for the swim. I think this is because.....of something to do....with the bearings....inside the cranks?????? I think this has been explained to me??? My training wheels don't behave like this, and when I run the bike with those, my pedals spin all of their own. I guess I should learn why all of this happens the way it does. Anyhow, all of this is to say that I do not use rubber bands to hold my pedals in place.

To start off? Slooooooow. Reeeeeaaaally, reeeeaaaally sloooooooow. And maybe just focus on one activity at first, which would be the leeg swing-over thing. It invloves counter-balancing, of course, as the only thing left on the right side of my bike when I do it is my left arm from the elbow down. So, what's that - 4 pounds to the right and 168 to the left?!? And then when you have that down, head for some grass and do your feet set-down there. If you can find a place where pavement ends in smooth contact with grass, that's ideal --- just coast up to that point, maybe already with your right foot over on the left side, and off you get! And so far I have yet to make contact with a rock, which I guess speaks well of race folks grooming the dismount area for our benefit. Yay to them!

When you're here, we can mess around with this. And speaking of which, think too about a swim in the Rideau, just south of Hog's Back. the Rideau Canoe Club has finally straightened out their line of buoys, and it is the best one they have established -- three reds, two yellows, a red, then three yellows, extending out about a thousand meters. So, it's easy to pick a buoy and plan the swim for whatver distance (roughly) that buoy is at. Weekdays are best for this, and either from 9-11 or 1-3. At the other times there are likely to be actual memebrs of the club there kayaking and canoeing, and I always feel guyilty taking up space in their water. Well, actually, it's space in public water, but I have used thier lot to park in and their docks to get and out from, so I try to be as invisible as possible. And a run? Up in the Gats, or along the Canal, post-swim?

ANYHOW, whatever works for you will work for me - especially the Mo, Tu, or We, the 12, 13, and 14.





Edited by stevebradley 2010-06-17 10:25 AM

MANDY -

Yup! It's his place! Right from the first T-man in '01, a perk of it has been Jordan's ice cream after the race, so i figure he was an ice cream guy before he became a race director. Whether it was something he birthed or inherited, I don't know, but it's fine ice cream!

As I said, the place I'm aware of is right near the road into Belmont.....which I guess would make it in Belmont itself. I think he has a few other branches, but i won't swear by that; it might be that the only one is the Belmont one.

Good for Kid Calf, seemingly molded and prodded into submission by the ART guy. Yippee!

what, me worry?  lol

I'm way off from ever getting to the point of even thinking about "flying" mounts or dismounts, but how the heck do you manage to get wet, bare feet into shoes that are clipped into your pedals?? All this while not toppling over...

From what I can tell, the Full Flying Mount is when you have your shoes pre-cliped in, held by rubber bands.  As you're running along side your bike, you have both hands on the horns, and literally spring off your left foot (assuming bike is on your right) and your right leg goes flying over the seat, and you land on it.  From there, slide feet into shoes, reach down to secure velcro, and then pedal like hell!

Degree of difficulty:  4.8

Dismounts:  Undo your velcro straps as you're headed into T2, remove feet and keep pedaling with your feet on top of your shoes.  As you approach the dismount, begin to brake, swing right leg over seat (so you're now on one foot on the bike) and then brake sufficiently so that you're comfortable stepping down and running from there.   I suspect this starts with you coming to almost a full stop, and then letting your momentum carry you  onto the ground, and over time, you can hop down at greater speeds depending on the road surface, crowds, etc.

All that said, until I get to a point where seconds count (i.e., there is a rat's chance of getting on a podium or qualifying for something), I'm gonna continue to do it like you do now - run in cleats, stop, click in, push off and go.  LOL.

Had an OK swim/bike brick today.   I'm starting to wish I didn't wait so long to start doing some harder bike sessions.   I rode further and a bit faster today on a much tougher route with a lower HR but boy, oh boy, I'm thinking Sunday is not going to be anything to write home about! 

Cold and a bit of sore throat still hanging around - lost my voice sort of after the swim.   Not sure why that would happen.  

OK brick as well - bike/run - yesterday.

Bike continues to be the bright spot - 45 minutes at a 18.3 mph pace on the trainer.  HR was up in the 160+ range for most of it.  I think I'm getting more and more comfortable being uncomfortable o the bike.  :-) 

Ran hard off the bike - not far - just under 2 miles, but needed to stop and walk 2x.  Still finished with a 8:10 pace, so I guess when I was running, I was really running.  Still not feeling at all comfortable on the run though.  More like I'm "hanging on" the whole time.  A far cry from a sub 7:00!  LOL.

Maggie is having dinner with her girlfriends tonight, so I'm gonna do another brick - ride then run, shorter ride, longer run, and try to moderate the pace somewhat.  Goal is to do 5 miles at an 8:45 pace.  We'll see how that works out! 

Hi everyone,
It looks like I need to bow out of the mentoring group. Summer is full upon us and with my kids' activities I just don't have time to keep up and be involved, and, as well, with recent events, things have changed and there are other priorities to attend to other than triathlon. I have greatly appreciated my time with this mentoring group. It has, by far, been the most supportive and informative mentoring group I have participated in. Thank you.
Mark

MARK -

Say it ain't so, 3D!

You will be missed, to be sure, but given the three girls and their range of ages, plus the loss of your ma-in-law, I can see where all of this stuff here needs to be set aside. I hope that will just be in the short- to medium-term for you, as I think you truly enjoy being actively involved in triathlon and its components.

Anyhow, you know where to find us, so drop in whenever you want to. If you can squeeze a race in somewhere, let us know how it went (especially if its your coveted sub-2:35 oly!). And I'm just a quick PM away, if ever needed.

Bye (for now?), Mark!

STEVE -

Getting more and more comfortable being uncomfortable on the bike --- that sounds good! A goal inexorably being moved towards!

As for finishing a brick run at 8:12 pace, it sure sounds like you were really running when you were running. You know, that's a part of my own pacing that I'm never sure of -- the first x-amount of distance/time off of the bike. The only way I'm even remotely sure of it is when I bring it right down to something deliberately slow, but anything that seems moderate just might end up being a shade or two quicker.

At Escape last week I didn't feel I was bursting out of T2, but when my breath was still labored after about 1/2-3/4 of a mile, I began to suspect something!

So.....how did last night's brick go? Ddid you manage to "reverse" it, with the shorter ride and longer run?

Finally, it sounds like your motivation has returned fully. Yes?

CELTICS FANS -

Watching the second half last noight was somewhere between being on The Rack and experiencing waterboarding. And that's that.

MOUNTERS and DISMOUNTERS -

A few more thoughts to what I said to SHAUN yesterday:
1) Know for certain where the dismount mine is, and have a good idea of the "line" heading up to it.
2) I get my feet out about 200-300 meters from the dismount line.
3) To get into shoes that are already on the pedals, have the velcro "set" at it's loosest postion -- or not set at all, just flapping/hanging free.
4) When getting my feet in, I am in my lowest body position, which is on my aerobars -- or, one aerobar at a time. This keeps my center-of-gravity more towards the middle, but more importantly it is more stable as I have that line of contact established between my elbow on the pad right up through my hand at the end. If I'm just on the brake hood area, then that is just one small area of contact - the hand. Plus, being lower on the aerobar means I have less distance to reach down.


Related to 1) and 2), at Escape last week I pre-drove the course and knew that the final 300-400 meters of the bike involved a couple of small twists and turns, then a little descent, then a sharp right turn, then another litle descent to the dismount line --- all of which is a poor time to try to get out of the cleats. So, I did all that about 500-600 meters out, and just brought it to the dismount line with my feet on top.

GANG!

Race photos are up from last week's races. Both are at www.capstonephoto.com. For Escape the Cape I was 264, and for Pirate I was 282. I'm very pleased with the bikemones at Escape, less so the run ons. For Pirate, if anything it's the reverse.

TRACEY and MANDY -- found your photos yet, and if so, ya like 'em? I think they're pretty fine!!

ANNE -

As I live and breathe, I'm sure you'll have a very solid bike split on Sunday. I guess you know you best, but from my reading of all of your cycling over the past bunch of months, I think you're primed for a good one at Guelph.

I suspect your big concern is with intensity, but over the course of the 42km at Guelph, some of your endurance strength can be "redeemed" for intensity. That is, you've got 42km to play with........and so much of your training has been for much further than that! In those longer rides you were working hard for, say 55km, so at Guelph you have less 13km to worry about, which is a gap of time during which that you can push it all a bit harder.

Try bursts. Pick up the pace significantly, and when you begin to feel it taxing you, back off. Regroup, and do it again. And in the regrouping part, the moment you begin to feel back in the got-control zone is when you crank it up again. I love these, as the after the first couple I realize that I can ride at the edge like that forever -- thos brief recoveries solve all the world's problems!

RACE ACTION - SUNDAY the 20th


ANNE!!

GUELPH LAKE WEEKEND
Olympic Swim-Bike
1.5km and 42km (Aquasphere Swim and Pepsi Bike!)

8:30 am start
Guelph, Ontario

www.trisportcanada.com

Ha! I was wondering - they usually send an email and I didn't get one! I was #125 folks if you want to see.  WHY AM I NOT IN AERO???? Duh.  The ones of me coming out of the water are funny, because I thought I was going to die on the swim I am in such bad swim shape.  AND apparently I am a thumbs up runner?? ha

Ran yesterday.  It sucked.  I wish my ART guy was closer, I am trying some stuff myself and will give it a go tomorrow.

I don't want to talk about the Celtics.  Hrmph.

GO ANNE! WOOOOOT!  Have fun, I can't wait to hear all about it!

Mandy