Newbz'z summer mentor group is FULL!!!! (Page 19)

Nice.  I was between trying an Adamo and the Cobb, but chose the Adamo simply because they had one to try when I got my bike fit (so you may want to do the pro fit before getting the seat as they will likely try as many different ones as you want, at least they did for me).  Did wonders for my boys and blood flow (something I've never had with a bike seat before), but it seems like its also causing a little bit of saddle sores.  I thought it was just cause I used crappy old shorts on the trainer, but it seems more prevalent now, even with some of the chamaois cream.

Anyway, long story short: I never pulled the trigger on one of the V flows because I was never quite sure the difference between all the models.  Do you know specifically what they are or who each model is best for?  Why did you choose the model you're getting?

Why are you changing your saddle before your fitting???  I'm probably telling you something you already know, but that is going to change how your seat feels a lot.  And comparing your road bike to your tri bike in terms of where you are hitting on your seat is kind of comparing apples to oranges.

Damn government has taken youtube away from us....so I will check out your video when I get home.  It is tough to say whether or not leaving your watch out of the equation will really help.  I just try to be as consistent as possible throughout the workout.  I know that if I'm losing my form after 150m, then I am pulling too hard, or getting out of breath (or something is off).  It only takes slowing it down about 5% to really make that difference.  And the longer you can keep your form the better off you will be.  This will lead to faster split times.  And DO NOT get discouraged.  Swimming is very hard on me because I will sometimes go a week with bad form or being just sort of out of it.

As of right now your workout looks pretty good.  Newbz is going to have to throw in some advice as to a different plan, as I am not a coach and don't have the experience to change plans around.  I would be wiped out by that 100m interval workout, so unless you handle it easily, try cutting that back and doing it every other week or something.  I like all those drills that you said and I would really buy a pull buoy and do arm workouts focussing on keeping your core tight to streamline yourself in the water.  I do it to make sure I'm not using just my legs to roll, but more of my core.  One of my favorites is the "monkey scratch" drill.  Who knows if that's something my swim coach made up!

Edited by jgerbodegrant 2010-04-14 7:20 AM

Okay, so I need a serious running plan.  My goal race is now 18 weeks out (august 22nd).  I feel comfortable running three times a week between 2 and 3 miles at 10-11 min pace.  When I say comfortable, I mean that my shins/knees are not hurting and am not sore the next day.  I did just switch to newtons, so when I get finished with these runs, my achilles and calves are feeling worked, but I have zero soreness or discomfort the next day, or even later in the day.  I probably have the fitness to run 8-10 miles by now, but definitely don't have the experience to do it without injury.  I can essentially run my three miles at 8 minute pace, but will be sore the next day or my shins will hurt, or something stupid like that.

So, Newbz or anyone else can chime in...I need a training plan to be able to comfortably finish my HIM run in 18 weeks.  I don't want speed work or tempo runs or anything else like that.  I am just looking for the proper way to up my mileage in order to finish comfortably. 

x2
Yes please. I need the same advice.

I am originally from Seattle so I always keep going in the rain.  In Seattle if you stopped for rain you'd never get any training in! In fact, I sort of like the rain as it keeps me cooler. 

My new plan is now to think of myself as a tortoise on my runs.  Slow and steady!  I'm just trying to up my mileage as much as possible.  I've got a 5k race this weekend, but I'm not going to try and run it that fast.  I'll just treat it as a training run.

I have a question about biking, though.  My logs are accurate going back about a month and I've been getting about 3-5 hours a week in on the bike, but some of that is on the trainer so I'm not sure about mileage.  Can I safely be doing hill and speed drills on the bike without injury?  Or should I be treating this like I am now treating my runs with no speedwork or intervals at all?

Appreciate any feedback.  Thanks.

I am winding down for a good days sleep.  I just got of work after a 28 hour stretch.  My mind is numb but it won't slow down yet.  I figure a little bit of staring into a computer monitor will work me into a bedtime mood.

Probably no training for me tonight.

I can tell you what I do, though I'm certainly no expert. I just read a lot about these and try to practice what I read (if only swimming could get better using this method :9 ).

I'm currently running 6 times a week. I started with 3 weekly as you currently do. All my runs were easy, no tempo or intervals. I made it 4 times weekly after about a month. Then increased to 5 after one more month, and finally to 6 after one more month. During this period I did all my runs easy, just did some strides (20-30 seconds of 90-100 % efforts) in one of my weekly runs, I still do them once per week in an easy run. After I reached this maximum, I changed one of my short runs with a tempo run. After some more time, I'm doing one hill interval work every other week. 4 of my runs are short, I run them at lunch break. So they are about 35-40 minute range. One session is about 1 hour, middle distance, I do this Saturday mornings. One of my runs is long, about 1:30, I do my long run as a second run at a weekday evening.

So, if your body does not tell you otherwise (it looks like you have adapted to running) you may add some more easy runs, forgetting about the pace. Also you need a long run if you are not doing any. I just checked you logs and found out your mileage is too low. Are you recovering from some injury? So you may first add a long run, or convert one of your runs to a long run. Then you should add some slow-short runs, but slowly. Always pay heed to 10% law.

Jane, biking is much more forgiving compared to running. I'm a pretty good biker, and my running and biking trainings are way different. I do hills, speed works, LT work almost EVERY time I ride. So if you are not recovering from any injuries I would say, go kill yourself on the bike to get better. One important note though, if you are not recovering enough from your biking to do your swimming or more importantly running sessions, you may be trying too hard, or you may need to arrange your schedule accordingly.

Edited by RogerWilco 2010-04-14 9:49 AM

Got in a run today! Woohoo!
I ran a very comfortable 4 mi at about 11 min/mi (estimate since I forgot to start my watch).  This was a 10% increase from last week and it felt really good.  I could have gone further, but decided to stick to my .5 mi/week increase.  I'm psyched because I'm definately ahead of where I was last year at this time.

For those of you struggling with swimming - one of the things I've found helpful is when you're doing a tough set like 10 or 15 or 20 x 100, make sure every stroke you take is perfect form.  Especially when you get tired, its easy to get sloppy and inefficient which is bad for conditioning, for times and for shoulders.  If I get tired and cant make an interval without flailing I change the rest interval.

just my opinion.

I'm not really recovering from an injury, just pestering little issues.  To make a long story short, I was up to  an hour and a half for my long run on Sundays, but the only way I could go that long (without shin splints) was by wearing my orthodics, which were then in turn tearing apart my arches.  I had some seriously infected blisters on both feet.  So I went to a running expert, who told me that I shouldn't be running in the shoes that I was running in because I'm more of a forefoot/midfoot striker....so I converted over to a flatter shoe with some posting for my pronation.  So given the new shoes and new running style that they put me in, I decided to start over so as not to over-do it.  Well, things were going so well that one day I decided to run too fast too soon and got slammed with shin splints that lasted almost a month.  So now that brings us to where I am now.  You're right...my mileage is too low.  Starting this week, I'm going to do 4x a week, including a longer run.  How long should my long run be at this point?  Like 4-5 miles?

The swimming looks good, keep at it, it may take a few weeks to start to see improvement. If you feel your stroke falling apart stop for a few min.
Also something to think about, if you are not getting winded at all, try upping your arm turnover to take a few more strokes per length, this should help speed thigns up.

On the running, no, no drills at all.

In short, yes you can.

Assuming you pay attention to your legs, there hsould be no issues here. biking, ie more like swimming in this respect, that you can start doing faster stuff MUCH sooner than running, just not as much all the time.

X-2...as long as you are comfortable on the bike and it fits you well, you should be putting more effort into the bike.  It's the only way you're going to see serious results.  If biking is creating a lot of fatigue, you should work on a warm up and hard middle session followed by a long cool down.  This always helps me.

swimming:

My times are generally at 1:55-2:00/100m pace

This does not change from swimming a 100m or a 1600m swim (my swimming logs are not all up to date).  But when i do any type of workout, weather it's short sets of 10-15x100 or a 1600m straight swim, my time is always around that 2:00/100m pace. 

What are the best drills to decrease my time/100m?  should i be doing sets that are on the 2:05?  or the 2:00?   I guess this is where a lack of coaching/established workouts in my life are putting me up against a wall as far as decreasing my swim time.  I "think" i have pretty good form, i do the swim drills, etc.....  Im looking for advice on some main sets that i can do that will help with speed.  Thanks for any input. 

first, to tackle the running plan questions.

The first goal is to build up mileage to whatever distance/time you can put towards it.

I would recomend starting with frequency first, then adding distance.

If you currently run 3x2 miles a week (or something there abouts), add in a 4th run next week.
If all feels good with that, and you have the time, add in a 5th run, if not, add a bit of time to one.

so week one looks like 2, 2, 2
week two, 2, 2, 2, 2.

week three, start adding a bit of distance.
2, 3, 2, 3,

week 4 (assuming you feel good).
3,3, 3, 2

week 5,

3,4, 3, 4

once you get comfortable with this, slowly start to lengthen one out. so a few weeks down the road, it would look something like this

3, 5, 4, 6 mi (or something along those lines.


These are not hard and fast rules, and if you can add more days, that is always helpful to spread the mileage out, and you can follow a progression like this for a LONG time as mileage builds.

When i got back into running and started upping things last year, my first 4 weeks looked like this

week1: 2, 3, 3, 4,
week2: 3,4,3,5,2
week3: 3,5,3,5,3
week4: 3,5,3,5,3,2

two months later that had built into
4/6/5/6/4/8

Basically the goal is to build mileage through frequency first, and then through distance.

As you start getting closer to the longer races you'll want that longer run to slowly lengthen out to reflect your goal distance a bit more, for the half IM in the 1:20-2:00 range. but you have 18 weeks to work on that.

what sort of effort is the 2:00min pace for you?

What can you swim 1 all out 100 in (if you dont know give it a shot after your next warmup, this will help nail down if the issue is pushing yourself, or specific fitness).

DOC,  those drills that wilco was talking about are good to do.  BUT, the absolute best thing you can do is to get a swim coach for two 1 hour sessions.  It may cost you 40-50 bucks a session for private lessons, but it is SO worth it.  Now that you can swim that distance and especially because you think you have good form, a third party is a must to tell you what you are doing wrong....because all of us are doing something wrong.  And of course, have someone video tape you on your blackberry (you're a doctor, I know you have one) and post it!!

Sweet....I'm all over that. 

Thanks Newbz.

Thanks Newbz...

I haven't officially timed myself at an all out 100, but i will at my next swim.  My question for this would be, do you do this without sacrificing form?  or do you just go balls to the wall?  I guess my reading of everything on the main board is that form is the most important thing in swimming, so I focus on that while swimming any sort of distance, and that's where i get stuck at my 2:00 pace.  I imagine if i try to go balls to the wall for a 100, i might lose some of that form. 

Thanks for the reply Jger,

I'll look back at the drills wilco posted.  I keep debating over doing the swim coach thing ,but i guess i should just bite the bullet and do it.  I'll also look at getting someone to film me swimming...although i might wear my jammers that day rather than my speedo

Absolutely....some people can teach themselves to swim, but for me, I was stuck at a 2:00 pace also....that was in early January.  I'm at a 1:40 pace now and can do 100 intervals at sub 1:30.  I'm giving credit to my swim coach because without her, I'd still be doing the same things wrong.

your form will change a bit, but within reason.

If you are more comfortable, try a 200 (so you'll have to pace it a bit). You should be ready to die at the end of it. this is not a comfortable hard.

X2 on this.  Definitely try out a swim coach (start with a couple sessions in case you just don't hit it off).   I taught myself to swim and thought I was doing pretty well.   In reality, lots of the things I thought I was doing right were not quite right.