GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 199)

Lisa,

Where's your race report?

Denise

DENISE -

Sounds like you're about to paraphrase MLK and yell ot from the rooftop "Free at last, free at last, thank god almighty I'm free at last!"

And what do you have in mind by way of amusing yourself for 2.5 weeks? Biking? Gardening? Running? Pet management? Swimming?

Sounds like a plan!

SORRY GUYS! I was trying to get it all in and switched you two!  Ooops.    So sorry!  I do know better, but I was rushing to fit it all in and well...anyway.  You guys got the message I was thinking about you both though, right?

I decided the pink undies were worth the second stop.

YES - my chain.  I cleaned it tonight.  I did a big ride (35 miles) in a rainstorm last week and then did a few more rides when it was dry...I think that I should have cleaned my chain after that, but before the race....

Deal on Friday the 16th!  I think you mean that day?  Looking forward to the lesson.  I had black stuff on my forehead even.  I just was so frustrated at first, then I said the heck with it, fix it and move on.  Found the digger on my tire.  I need a new tire, but the LBS is far away and I can't get there until this weekend.  Crap.  It is the 4th of July this weekend.  I might mail order... Hoping it doesn't cause problems between now and then.

The leg is not 100%, but it is so much better than before.  I can't run back to back days without it flaring up,  but if I ice it regularly, and run every other day...it seems to cooperate.  Fingers crossed.

Mandy

ACK! $125!!! OUCH!  My insurance covered enough so I had to pay $30.  I didn't realize how lucky I was!  Hey, maybe you can find someone who does deep tissue massage?  that is still going to cost at least $60 though...Good luck.  The Stick, foam roller and ice! 

Thanks! I don't know where that first run came from.  I hope you don't get to experience the flat tire thing.  I presented it better than it was.  PLUS I got to see those sparkly undies. 

ANNE -

Yay for me! I actually got it right, what I said I thought my gearing might be coming bcak into a wind. It never ceases to amaze me that I just do what I do, but don't know what exactly I'm doing!

So, i rode for 30 minutes into a stiff NW wind, and stayed in the third and foutrrth biggest cogs -- I believe a 21 and a 19 or a 19 and a 17. (Better check that!) All of it was in the big ring, so I know the wind was stiff but not harrowing. What it is harrowing, I'll be in and out of the small ring.

Coming back with the wind behind me, it was still big ring, of course, but bopping between the 13 and 14, mostly. I was approx. 30 seconds in each, back and forth, hitting a cadence of about 95 when in the 13, and about 92 in the 14.

As for your question about how low would I let my cadence go before I shift gears......I'll have to go out and check that! Seriously! But the bigger question for me is at what point I bail on the big ring and go to the little one. From what I said above, it's safe to say that I am frequently shifting around, and probably more than is necessary - I may be too quick to shift when I feel the slightest change in my pedalling rhythm. I THINK that inn a wind, i am content to maintain ~80.....but I wouldn't swear to that.

Have you seen the notice on the Muskoka website that due to construction at the high school they will be moving the transition zone further upriver, to some pizza place, maybe. Or no -- that's where the people will exit the water. And as I think about it, the new t-zone is at the high school, with the construction being at the community center. Or something like that? Obviously I don't have the exact scenario, but the gist is that more of the swim is in the river this year. (This update is in bold red [maybe] on the Muskoka website.)

Are you doing any more rides up there before the 25th?

The other thing I was right about today was four posiitions of aero, with the last one being such that if my tongue was just a oit more prehensile, i might be able to lick spilled gel off the aerobars. (ACK! ) Seriously, it really does have me low, and if I tuck my head way down I can feel the difference. And when in this position, the bottom of the heels of my hands are right the base of my shifters, and my elbows are at the ends of the pads. I do NOT feel that my most efficient pedalling occurs in this position, but at least it is quite wind-resistant.

I'm not good at those calculations for calories expended and calories consumed. Were it me, and if my tummy was agreeable, i would take a gel pre-swim, in T1 or within the first mile of the bike, and at least two more during the bike. I try to follow the ruole of thumb that some of the gel folks make, which is one every 45 minutes. So along with those four, i would have one more with me just in case the day was very rocky, for whatever reasons. What are you planning to drink, or eat? Will you have a Bento box with 1/2 a banana and some pretzels and a bit of Clif bar and a Fig Newton or three? How many water or energy drink bottles, and what exactly of the latter?

Warm cahnges things some, as electrokytes might be beneficial if warm verges on hot. But that sweet wind forecast means that you will be working less, so let's hope that aspect of the forecast holds!!

STEVE B, my race was planned for awhile.  Third time to do this particular race.  A race report to follow in a bit.  Congrats on the PB at Tupper.  What's up next. 

KASIA, I got citrus flavored Shot Blocks in my race package, so will give them a try.  I don't like the gels because they tend to be too sweet and don't like the drinks because they tend to be too salty.  I've actually used fruit leather and fruit chewys on my races before but they've all been sprint tris and the longest run a half mary.  Don't what I'll do for longer distances.

STEVE A, hope you have a great time in Belize, in case you jump ship before I get a chance to tell you.

MANDY, hope your mom does well with her surgery.

SHAUN, great race report, great bike, great race!  Ouch to the gravel!

TRACEY, congrats on the 1800m swim!!  Hope that you decide to give the 10K a try this weekend.  I'm going to NYC for the weekend and was hoping to find a run up there over the holiday, but no luck.  Guess a leisure run in Central Park will have to suffice.

ANNE, glad to hear that your feeling better.  Sounds like you needed to take a few days off ... and way to come back with a great ride.

DENISE, 2 1/2 weeks ... alone, by yourself.  I don't know what I would do, but enjoy!!   I remember when my husband took my kids out of town once for about  5 days (a number of years ago).  The first night they were gone, I cleaned the house ... then I didn't have anything else to do.  It stayed clean the whole time!  Race report will follow ... after a walk.

LISA

Edited by lufferly 2010-06-29 7:54 PM

Glad to hear you got it right.   I had complete trust in you.      I can relate to what you say about just doing what you do and not really knowing what it is when I think of me using a keyboard.   I can type 120 words/minute but don't ask me to tell you where the letters are on the keyboard.  

I have read (I think in my Marc Evan's book or maybe Lance Armstrong book) that most people don't shift gears nearly often enough and they talk about learning to shift when you sense the slightest change of pressure on your foot, either way.  I'm always shifting and I do think it makes you a more efficient, faster cyclist.  

If you have a chance to check on when you would bail from the big ring to the small one, that would be great.   I think we have some wind in the forecast for the next few days.  

The changes to the race venue had been posted prior to our last 2 visits to Muskoka, so we know the layout and even with the change, you only swim about 100 meters past the old swim exit.  It's very narrow there.   We would like to ride the course again before the race and most likely will.   Personal Best is having a tri clinic on the 11th and 12th, biking the actual course with Sean Bechtel and Dave Sharratt, I think.   Although I would like to do that, we will most likely go up during the week. 

So, are you saying that I should have some food in addition to the gels?   If so, I would think I would bring Fig Newtons ( I used them in Florida and they seemed to work well, although I wasn't riding hard then).   I have eaten LARA bars before but never anything like a banana.   My Bento box is pretty small - I need a bigger one.    I am going to load up on electrolytes before the race but not during.   There has been a major supply problem with coconut water the last few months, and I only have 2 small containers.   I do take a gel pre swim and will do as you suggest - another within the first mile and then every 45 minutes which would be another 4?  When do I eat the food?    I know I shouldn't be trying new stuff in a race, but I have tried things before during my training rides and duplicated it during a race with totally different results.  

Thanks for walking me through all this.  

My daughter's best friend and her boyfriend were supposed to do this race with me but ended up bailing ... it would have been their first tris.  I talked my WW leader (Chanel) into attempting her first triathlon, so it was fun to have a first timer there with me. 

In regards to poor race planning, they ran out of first timer medals.  Before the race, Chanel told me she was going to finish no matter how long it took her so she could get that medal.  She was the last one in the pool (25 minutes), the last one out on the bike (12.8 mph) with the police escort and the cones being picked up behind her, but was able to pass several on the bike and run (12:28 pace), so there were others that came in behind her.  She was last in her AG (30-34)and  finished in 1:58; the time limit was 2 hours.  You should have seen the smile on her face running through the finisher's shoot with her family cheering her on, then the disappointment when she found out they had run out of medals. 

I think it's very disappointing that the last first timers finishing the race weren't able to get their medals, because to me, they worked harder than anyone to finish.  I'm not sure why they run out of medals (they ran out in the prior race) because they ask if you're a first timer on your registration, unless there are others that aren't first timers that are asking for medals.

OK, off my soap box.

Good night, LISA

ANNE -

This isn't meant to be a flip answer......but I eat the food when I get hungry! Then, and also whenever I sense I am going to get tired of the gels. For a half-iron, that is very predictable -- not necessarily when it will happen, but certainly that it WILL happen.

I get sick of sweet stuff pretty quickly, and if I am to cointinue on the sweet path I need to dampen it some with something salty -- pretzels of Clif Mojo bars work quite well for this. For a short while I had on board several Pringles, which normally I'm not wild about, but during a long race they suit me quite well. An advantage to those (and maybe I'm just imagining this) is that they seem less oily or greasy, which if true has to be an advantage.

I want to be able to use gels on a half-iron run, but find that there is a limit to how many I can take. I don't have a number for that, but 4 or 5 for a whole race is about there. So, if I want to use two gels on the 21.1km run.....I have to tone them down some on the bike, and that's where the actual food comes in handy.

You're right that you don't want to mess around with somehting new for the first time during a race, but if you used Fig Newtons in Florida, then maybe trying just one during Peterborough won't hurt. You might even think of being more cautious, and having a nibble at about 40km and seeing how that sits with you.....and if it's all okay, nibble away until it's gone.

I might've mentioned this at some point several months ago, probably as SteveA was gearing up for his long ones, but a trick I used several years ago for several half-irons plus my two irons was baby potatoes, pre-boiled in salty water and put in a little baggie iwth salt sprinkled in. I would use these on the bike, and in a couple of HIM I even started the run with what was left and finished 'em off in the first mile. There wer never many -- maybe 2-4 baby spuds. But, lordy, were they ever good! And they score really favorably on the glycemic index!

Let me know what your thinking is on Muskoka rides. And, I am still comtemplating doing the race itself, it's just a matter of trying to fit it in on that particular weekend.

Not much wind here right now, and I'm not sure I can squeeze in a ride today. But if it's windy and I do ride, I'll try to get to the point at which I have to bail to the small ring!

SteveB,

I think I missed some topics in your response to my race report.

Looking back at the swim times, there was someone at 1:20 or so however not very many people at all under 1:40 so maybe the course was a bit long but not much long.

I learned my lesson about mixing Gu too strong. Point taken hopefully I don't repeat. I was suprised by the issue a bit as I have a pretty strong stomach.

I have played with the Infinit sliders. Great tool but I fear (and I think I've said this before) going over strong in calories or protein or sugar type and end up messing up a batch of it. So I filled out one of their cards and will be getting a custom drink mixture made up for me based on Oly distance for this year. However with all the Gu, Heed and Gatorade I have no I doubt I'll need any mix before next year. So maybe I should have submitted it for the HIM distance for next year. For that distance I suspect I will want some protein intake.

Very impressed with Multisport. If their events were USAT sanctioned, I would definitely consider doing them in the future if in a specific season I was going after a USAT ranking. Otherwise, I don't see why not.

There's still plenty of time for Xmas hinting for a new P2 or P3...in fact I'll have to discuss how I would have gone from 35kph to 38+ and what a difference that would make in all my races!

I agree a lot of positives could be found in the race results. If I knew more of the competitors than it would be more interesting. Seeing as how I don't know anyone else I race against its kind of hard for me to really determine much. As for AG comparison, it would be nice to see every race do an overall and AG rankings just so it would be a bit easier to find the data I/we am/are looking for. I highly suspected the field at Welland was a lot higher caliber than Hawk Island. Hawk being so beginner friendly and what not. More of a fun race than competitve race.

I 100% agree on your assessment of the Welland HIM.

Your logic for working on the swim/bike make sense and really probably will be where I focus the most effort this year. I understand the reasoning to kind of let the run progress as it does but knowing its my weakest link, its what I want to work on because I know I'll see the most gain in overall time there and its the only portion I consistently see myself being passed. Of course like you there are many many many people who can murder me in any one portion of a tri but it would be nice to be within that FOP group across all three disciplines.

Gee, am I competitve at all at this??

It's going to take some time, rest and speed training on the running...I'll try to get there. Hopefully I will be able to talk to the Sport's Doc about the running and the hernia's on the 19th.

You have mentioned Road Runner and I have used their website for information. My next pair or two I will be going through local shops to either or reject my current suspicions of what I am doing. Before I buy though, I will be making sure they have a good return policy and at that will use my next trip in as a information seeking visit and tell them I am doing such due to the injuries and I want a good 20-30 day window to try the shoes before I decide which shoes to go with. The only down side is none of the local running stores carry Zoot or Newton's shoes. Only the local triathlon bike shop carries those shoes and I do no know what they do for running analysis, if anything. I know they do lactate testing and what not so they have a treadmill...

LISA -

I understand* your disappointment with the swim and the attitude problem on the run..........but still! A 1:39 improvement over '09 is superb, and a 5:19 over '08 is even superber! I'll bet you can hardly wait for next year, huh? Redemption will be sweet!

I put the * there because I only understand the disappointment part but not the logistics aspect, having never done a pool triathlon. But in the spirit of a chain being only as strong as its weakest link, all you need is one person who swims slower than their seeded position to really gum up the works. And the fact that you did the distance last week in 7:05 must've just added hugely to your frustration. Grrr!

Anyhow, congrats on the big PR, in part due to a good bike and two great transitions. It's beeen said aover and over and over, but those transitions are opportunties for "free speed". A person can spend mega-money on wetsuits and race wheels and other techie stuff, and still may not see the time savings that copme from crisp and clean transitions. Zoom-zoom!

And you're another fan of Clif Mojo bars!! They are impossible to find up here, and I have little success anywhere other than Eastern Mountain Sports. Maybe I ought to become the Canadian distributor for them!

LISA again -

I share your spot on that particular soap box! There are so many first-timers who covet the medal, and all RD must know that. A woamn I met at Pirate Tri two weeks ago had gone through a close-to-two-year personal program to do a tri, and I hung around to see her finish. As she crossed the line she had a huge smile on her face and said "Where is my damn medal?", and fortunately they had one for her. She didn't say that at all aggressively or nastily, and everybody knew that, and it just added an exclamation mark to her joy.

Yeah, you over-subscribe to the first-timer medals. Period. Cut no corners on that one!

I hope she orders a finish-line race photo, anyhow. And does she have plans to do another race?


What's next for you, oh semi-secretive one?

ANNE -

Happy Canada Day to you! Any plans, other than a ride and/or swim? We have nothing special, and will definitely steer clear of Ottawa and all the madness there.

It turned out that yesterday would've been a great day to do a wind-ridden ride, but I swam then ran then came home to mow the lawn and plant the last of the onions. So, I don't have a clear guideline to when I bail from big ring to little riing, but I will try to patch something together for you.

I think that for a course like I envision Peterborough to be, I would want to run a cadence no lower than 80/min. For most races and training rides I can sustain 90+ quite easily, I think, and when I shift around a lot it's to mix trhings up so that my legs are always feeling fresh enough to do that.

As I fight wind, however, in the big ring I will run out of "quiet" gears; that is, at about my 19-cog the chain will start rubbing against the front deraileur. I can tolerate a bit of that, but if I'm slowing down and my cadence is dropping dramatically and I'm in the big ring and the click-clank is happening........that's the time to drop to the small ring and bop down two cogs, to maybe the 17 or 16. That will allow me to eneter into more of a spin, and that will bring my cadence and speed back up, and then I will shift back into the big ring when I feel I am ready for it again.

In general, when faced with tough winds I feel that I take too long to get out of the big ring. At some point I should probably try to quantify that and figure out how much time I have wasted there rather than trying to optimize my whole range of gears (well, at that point, there's not much of a range of viable options!).




If you're riding today, stay safe! Hopefully, most people will be at the cottage or in whatever town is offering the best celebration, and not out tearing up the roads.

SHAUN -

For sprints and olys, I don't plan on any protein during the race; however, I still try to take some in post-race. I don't think it would hurt at all, and probably provides a cushion of protein that means you can go longer without adding any post-race, if necessary. (That is, forgetting to drink my Recoverite or similar protein-enhanced recovery drink until about three hours later, well beyond the recommended one-hour window! )

Once my effort goes beyond three hours is when I start to think about adding protein to my regimen. I think that is about what Hammer recommends for when to use Perpetuem, and so that's a half-iron, or an oly-HIM "hybrid" such as Muskoka or K-Town, or one of the oddballs that are offered by Piranha Sports and Genesis Adventures.

As for having too many mixes.......been there done that! In fact, the shleves in my back room have an array of canisters that have been long-neglected, but on the other hand I have gone through many just in run-of-the-mill training. That is, i try to keep my go-to stuff for races, and gradually work my way throught the others in workouts. There's a reason for doing two-a-days --- more opportunities to exhaust your supply of drink powders!

SHAUN again -

One prevailing theory is to work on your weaknesses during the off-season, and that's how I approach the swim. Or used to, anyhow. I still swim lots during the off-season, but I cannot say that I approach it as seriously as I used to. The returns just haven't been there over time, and there seems to be little sense in doing killer sessions or technique-infused sessions if the rewards are so few and far between.

In EVERY season, along about the end of July I will see a nice "bump" in my swim performance. One day I'll do one of my 3-4X a week open water swims........and it will all click. My time for that ater body will be significantly faster, and I will carry that improvement into the very late season. Then, along about the first week of October when I am swimming less (getting too cold), I will lose that sweet edge. That's one of the double-edged swords aspects to carrying my season into later October or even November -- if I swim more at that time I will keep the speed, or maybe it just dissipates as the season progresses, and then I'll be screwed in the swim part of theose late races! .

ANYHOW! (Big digression there!)

Your biggest (and safest) gains right now are likely to come from the bike first, followed closely by the swim, and so emphasize though while working gradually to be a more efficient runner. And then in the off-season, get more focused about the run if you want to be more of a triple-threat.

One of the people in the other group (it's hooslisa, who sometimes surfaces here to stir up some trouble! ) is a really soild triathlete, and she says that she does well because she has no weaknesses. (That's what she said last year when she was still learning the ropes; since then, she has made some quantum leaps and DEFINITELY has no weaknesses!) For people who are competitive and want to be more FOP, that's the goal -- no weaknesses. Virtually all triathletes have one weakness, but it may not be so much a true weakness as the area that is relatively less proficient than the other areas. I think that characterizes most FOP triathletes.

I think your goal with the run might be similar to mine with the swim -- get better, limit the losses. And as much as I moan about my swim, I can say that over the years I have moved from weak swim performances to ones that are mediocre at worst. (Hey, it's a start! ) And within my age group of people who have decreased range-of-motion, I can kinda sorta hold my own in the swim, so that's worth a WHEW! or two!

In the meantime, too, keep working on the transitions. As I srote to Lisa earleir today, those represent opportunities for "free" time gains. I regularly see guys who have come out of the water before me, but I'm on the bike while they're still ditzing around in t-zone. So, if they do a swim in 28:37 and mine is 30:13, but I'm on the bike before they are.......why in the world do I spend so much money to swim all winter in the Ottawa pools? I ask myself that question!

STEVE B, we can buy Clif bars (including the Mojo bars) at just about all the groceries stores around here (for about $1/bar) ... at least the ones that I frequent carry them, as well as any of the sporting/running stores (for about $1.50/bar).  BUT the Sam's Club by my house just started carrying them and I can now get a box of 24, I think for about $21 dollars!!  ... with the Mountain Mix, PB Pretzel, and Dipped Peanut bars!  Unfortunately my kids found my last box and have decided they like them as well, so will have to hide the next box I get.

No, other tris scheduled at this point, though I'll likely get one more in before the season ends, likely September or October.  I'm with SHAUN and KASIA ... think I'll be into more informal training at this point.  My running group has already started training for the fall marathons, so will be working on that.  I am looking at a short duathlon in October in Galveston ... 2 mile run, 8 mile bike, 2 mile run, with the runs being predominantly on the beach but will be the weekend before 10 for Texas (a 10 mile run).  Hoping to talk my running partner into the duathlon. 

LISA

Hey Steve,

So, I've been mulling over your great results and it dawned on me, "What does Steve's training schedule look like?" 

Do you have a set schedule you follow?  Time spent per day?  Mileage goals?  Specific brick workouts?  Or do you go by feel at this point? 

What does a typical week of training look like for you at this point?

I'm interested too - especially in how many hours/wk
Denise

STEVE and DENISE -

Alrighty then! What I will do is summarize a few weeks of my training. This may take a day or so, but I will actually aim to have something here tomorrow.

I got razzed a bit last year from the other group for not posting my workouts here on BT, but I am very committed/addicted to my paper-and-pencil log which is, incidentally "the total triathlon almanac - 5", by Tony Svensson, and published by The Trimarket Company in Palo Alto, CA (www.trimarket.com).

I will try to get summarific for the week or three leading up to Columbia, and then maybe the past few weeks as I've bee-bopped my way through Escape, Pirate, and Tupper Lake. This should be instructive for me, too, seeing as how my plans are not really carved-in-stone.

And, Steve, I will try to attend to all five questions you asked in the middle paragraph.

Off to NYC early tomorrow AM to visit my daughter and be back again on Monday AM.  Looks like tomorrow and Saturday might be nice but they are calling for 95 degrees on Sunday.  I was hoping to be leaving the heat for a bit.  My husband and youngest son left for the Ozarks today and it will be cooler there than in NYC.

Hope everyone has a great holiday weekend for us Americans; and happy Canadian day for our northern neighbors.

LISA

My husband and his grandson just arrived in NYC for the weekend to visit son and see a Yankees game.
Denise
 

Hope you have a great weekend too, Lisa.    Belated congratulations on your race.   You did really well!       

You seem to have things under control and able to maintain a nice balance with training, races, and looking after a home and family.  

Stay cool.