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2009-02-17 11:30 AM
in reply to: #1964863

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Subject: RE: C-span ranks 10 worst and 10 best US president's
How can Jimmy Carter not be ranked among the worst? Anyone remember gas lines, mortgage rates in the teens, high unemployment, high inflation, DOW at or under 1000 and the phony peace agreement between Israel and Palestine?


2009-02-17 11:40 AM
in reply to: #1966330

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Subject: RE: C-span ranks 10 worst and 10 best US president's
I am a pretty die-hard conservative, and I am OK with Kennedy being near the top. Kennedy actually cut taxes (are you listening Speaker Pelosi?), and I think the space program was money well spent. I agree he pooched the Bay of Pigs pretty badly. I am conflicted about Vietnam. I think it may have been the right thing to get involved, but the way we did it certainly turned out badly. LBJ was a horrible choice for VP.
2009-02-17 11:47 AM
in reply to: #1964863

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2009-02-17 11:51 AM
in reply to: #1966330

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2009-02-17 1:23 PM
in reply to: #1966367

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Subject: RE: C-span ranks 10 worst and 10 best US president's
What about the Coaches' poll?
2009-02-17 4:44 PM
in reply to: #1964863

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Subject: RE: C-span ranks 10 worst and 10 best US president's
I would say that it is difficult to rank any President with proper perspective until time has passed and you see the long-term effects of what they have done or didn't do.

Lincoln was hated by many in his day, and not jut Democrats. Go to the Lincoln Museum and you will see an amazing amount of hate and bad press for the man - and it wasn't all because of the Civil War.

My personal view on the list - How is FDR so high - anyone who instituted the National Income Tax should never be in the top 10!


2009-02-18 11:43 AM
in reply to: #1964863

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Subject: RE: C-span ranks 10 worst and 10 best US president's

Calvin Coolidge (my personal favorite) without question should be in the top ten. This list is bunk without him.

Eisenhower should not be in the top ten and is a god example why generas don't make good presidents, which is more proof that this list is bunk.

I wish Obama had half the economic sense that Kennedy had in his pinky. In my opinion, Kennedy's tax cuts and economic policy finally took us out of the post New Deal/WWII hangover. 

2009-02-18 11:44 AM
in reply to: #1967037

Master
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Subject: RE: C-span ranks 10 worst and 10 best US president's

Wolff27 - 2009-02-17 4:44 PM Lincoln was hated by many in his day, and not jut Democrats. 

Could it be that he was tyrant?

2009-02-18 12:13 PM
in reply to: #1968606

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Subject: RE: C-span ranks 10 worst and 10 best US president's

Wolff27 - 2009-02-17 4:44 PM Lincoln was hated by many in his day, and not jut Democrats. 

Yeah I would agree with you there.  Plus funny as my 8th grade teacher always told me one of biggest thing Lincoln did was the emancipation proclamation was kinda pointless.  It did not free slaves in area controlled by the union.  It only freed salves in the states that the Union had no control over.  It was more of a political statement to break the south than something that was effective.

He did keep the union together and brought on the end of slavery which is one of the most embrassing parts of our nations histories. 

2009-02-19 8:44 AM
in reply to: #1968696

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Subject: RE: C-span ranks 10 worst and 10 best US president's
chirunner134 - 2009-02-18 12:13 PM

Wolff27 - 2009-02-17 4:44 PM Lincoln was hated by many in his day, and not jut Democrats. 

Yeah I would agree with you there.  Plus funny as my 8th grade teacher always told me one of biggest thing Lincoln did was the emancipation proclamation was kinda pointless.  It did not free slaves in area controlled by the union.  It only freed salves in the states that the Union had no control over.  It was more of a political statement to break the south than something that was effective.

He did keep the union together and brought on the end of slavery which is one of the most embrassing parts of our nations histories. 

The point wasn't to free slaves, it was to confiscate the property of the enemy and reduce the means of production in the South. So in light of that, it wasn't pointless. It was a tool of war.

 

2009-02-19 10:18 AM
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Subject: RE: C-span ranks 10 worst and 10 best US president's

"The Proclamation was issued in two parts. The first part, issued on September 22, 1862, was a preliminary announcement outlining the intent of the second part, which officially went into effect 100 days later on January 1, 1863, during the second year of the Civil War. It was Abraham Lincoln's declaration that all slaves would be permanently freed in all areas of the Confederacy that had not already returned to federal control by January 1863. The ten affected states were individually named in the second part. Not included were the Union slave states of Maryland, Delaware, Missouri and Kentucky. Also not named was the state of Tennessee, which was at the time more or less evenly split between Union and Confederacy. Specific exemptions were stated for areas also under Union control on January 1, 1863, namely 48 counties that would soon become West Virginia, seven other named counties of Virginia including Berkeley and Hampshire counties which were soon added to West Virginia, New Orleans and 13 named parishes nearby."

 

Basically if you did not have control they were freed but since you did not have control they were not freed. 



2009-02-19 10:38 AM
in reply to: #1968606

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Subject: RE: C-span ranks 10 worst and 10 best US president's
Jackemy - 2009-02-18 11:44 AM

Could it be that he was tyrant?



Dang, look at you getting your JWB on!

2009-02-19 10:40 AM
in reply to: #1970417

Elite
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Subject: RE: C-span ranks 10 worst and 10 best US president's
chirunner134 - 2009-02-19 11:18 AM

"The Proclamation was issued in two parts. The first part, issued on September 22, 1862, was a preliminary announcement outlining the intent of the second part, which officially went into effect 100 days later on January 1, 1863, during the second year of the Civil War. It was Abraham Lincoln's declaration that all slaves would be permanently freed in all areas of the Confederacy that had not already returned to federal control by January 1863. The ten affected states were individually named in the second part. Not included were the Union slave states of Maryland, Delaware, Missouri and Kentucky. Also not named was the state of Tennessee, which was at the time more or less evenly split between Union and Confederacy. Specific exemptions were stated for areas also under Union control on January 1, 1863, namely 48 counties that would soon become West Virginia, seven other named counties of Virginia including Berkeley and Hampshire counties which were soon added to West Virginia, New Orleans and 13 named parishes nearby."

 

Basically if you did not have control they were freed but since you did not have control they were not freed. 

This is a great post because it also demonstrates once again that the civil war was not fought over slavery.  slavery was one of the symptoms of the conflict on state's rights.  The simple fact that there were 4 union "slave states" demonstrates that slavery was not the reason the civil war was fought.  It's also important to understand that prior to the Amancipation proclomation, I believe in 1861, one of the Union generals in Missouri issued a military declaration "freeing slaves", Lincoln over turned this in an effort not to tick off the union slave states of Missouri and Maryland.  Going as far to note that without Missourri and Maryland the union effort would be doomed.  I'm always curious how those that assert the civil war was fought over slavery explain these curious facts.  Later Lincoln clearly used slavery and the abolistionist movement as a ralying cry to save the union, and to attempt to mobilize northerners.  Slavery was a concerete concept, as opposed to state's rights which is kind of an imorphous issue for most lay people of the day.

Saying the war was fought over slavery is a gross simplification of the historical facts.

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