login
"No Easy Day" (Page 2)
-
No new posts
|
 2012-09-10 10:50 AM in reply to: #4403322 |
Pro  6767      the Alabama part of Pennsylvania |  Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"DanielG - 2012-09-10 10:59 AM ... I believe Carter took the blame for the hostages not being released and thus creating the necessity of trying to spring them. Iran figured with a Democrat in the White House, the US was the proverbial paper tiger and wouldn't do anything. NOT starting a debate about whether they were right or not but that's what they believed. I do believe that was what Carter was blamed for. Had it not been for a weak foreign policy especially regarding terrorists, the whole debacle would have never been. Similarly, the reason we ended up with the first Gulf war, was that Saddam misread statements by Bush I, and thought he would have carte blanche to go into Kuwait. I believe that Bush I handled that one well - getting a coalition and stopping at the border as agreed by the coalition. I think the point is that we do a poor job overall of signalling what we will or won't do in that region. |
| 2012-09-10 11:14 AM in reply to: #4402812 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: "No Easy Day" Here is an e-book put out from the Special Ops community group. Review is interesting. Maybe I'll buy it. But even for them, and critical information... the fact that they say there was an "official" story that was to be fed to the public then the administration had to change it when the helicopter crashed... again, just seems like airing a lot of dirty laundry. Not that we don't think those things go on... just that we never get actual confirmation of it. Edited by powerman 2012-09-10 11:15 AM |
| 2012-09-10 12:45 PM in reply to: #4403319 |
Expert 1215 Austin, TX | Subject: RE: "No Easy Day" gearboy - I had an office manager whose husband was in the navy on a nuclear sub as an enlisted man. He was shocked when some movie or book had come out that showed some details that had been classifed when he served, since he knew no one was supposed to be talking (and he had been a civilian for at least a decade or two). That sounds like "Hunt for Red October." I had just gotten secret clearance when the book came out. We had just had what was supposedly a secret clearance class that included a bunch of stuff that was in the book. From what I recall when I signed the secret clearance, I was never allowed to discuss anything that had been classified regardless of me being active duty or not. They made it pretty clear. |
| 2012-09-10 12:53 PM in reply to: #4402812 |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: "No Easy Day" First rule of fight club is you do not talk about fight club.
This guy is a disgrace and a sellout. The problem is, the government's statements are just helping him sell more books. Either throw his butt in jail or completely ignore him. The half-angry press statements only stir up more news articles and put dollars in his pocket. |
| 2012-09-10 2:09 PM in reply to: #4403758 |
Pro 6767 the Alabama part of Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: "No Easy Day" Hugh in TX - 2012-09-10 1:45 PM gearboy - I had an office manager whose husband was in the navy on a nuclear sub as an enlisted man. He was shocked when some movie or book had come out that showed some details that had been classifed when he served, since he knew no one was supposed to be talking (and he had been a civilian for at least a decade or two). That sounds like "Hunt for Red October." I had just gotten secret clearance when the book came out. We had just had what was supposedly a secret clearance class that included a bunch of stuff that was in the book. From what I recall when I signed the secret clearance, I was never allowed to discuss anything that had been classified regardless of me being active duty or not. They made it pretty clear. I think that was it - thanks! |
| 2012-09-10 2:11 PM in reply to: #4402812 |
| 376 | Subject: RE: "No Easy Day" Regardless of what folks think, I'll probably get the book (or audiobook in my case) out of curiosity. I saw the interview last night. One thing that I thought was odd was the helo crash. They assume it was turbulence from the walls, but if they ran thru this Op, on a full size replica, wouldn't this problem have manifested itself? When they showed pics of the downed helo, I couldn't recognize the tail, when they said it was a Blackhawk, I knew it had some serious mods done to it. With all the youtube clips nowadays, I'm just surprised no one has caught a pic of it flying. |
| 2012-09-10 8:50 PM in reply to: #4402812 |
| Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida | Subject: RE: "No Easy Day" Ok on Bissonette writing a book. I agree, he never should've written it. However, like I pointed out early in the discussion, since January, there have been several indications that the White House provided specific, classified intel from this op to 1) Kathryn Bigelow so she could make a movie that will air in late October and 2) two dudes so they could write a book. They even had a SEAL or SEALS sit with those two for interviews. In doing that the Government de facto declassified the information. So, how is it that he's the one getting accused of loose lips??? As for the spec ops team dying comment. We have done ops into Pakistan for years. Including Drones, raids, and gone after HVTs. We also lose helicopters all the time in Afgh. We lost a bird with 24 SEALs last August. How much press did that get? Not much. Definitely not political suicide. Did anyone ask what the h--- 24 SEAL team 6 members were doing on one aircraft near the Pak border? There are only 150 of them and we lost 1/6 in one accident? Are you aware of any ops other than in Afgh right now? Exactly. They happen all over the place and we never hear about them or about the ones that go bad. If someone wrote a book about missions in some other armpit where we aren't actively at war, he'd be charged right away and incarcerated until his trial was over. Eagle Claw was not on the same level because it was a huge op. 6 C130s, dozens of helicopters, troops, operators, civil engineers, ships, etc etc. It was also during peace time. So it was a lot harder for that story to go by the wayside. The "Only Obama made that call" or "Obama made a bold call when everyone told him not to" shows why this admin is messed up. He seems to have to make all the decisions. OBL, God, Jerusalem, what else? How about you get some people who know what they're doing around you. Is he really the only smart one surrounded by fools? My point is that given what Obama knew based on the articles and the excerpts from this book, any prez who listened to his Commanders instead of his wonks would've made the same call. |
| 2012-09-10 9:52 PM in reply to: #4404763 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: "No Easy Day" GomesBolt - 2012-09-10 7:50 PM Ok on Bissonette writing a book. I agree, he never should've written it. However, like I pointed out early in the discussion, since January, there have been several indications that the White House provided specific, classified intel from this op to 1) Kathryn Bigelow so she could make a movie that will air in late October and 2) two dudes so they could write a book. They even had a SEAL or SEALS sit with those two for interviews. In doing that the Government de facto declassified the information. Surely, you are not saying that those that went through the proper channels, had their work examined and approved by the government... is license for others to say what ever they want? How do you know those projects did not indeed have classified info...and that the government denied it's inclusion, and then they just substituted stuff for "dramatic effect"? The point about his book is that it was unauthorized. There is a huge difference. The Government does not "de facto" declassify anything...they go line by line word by word and release only what they approve for release.
Are you aware of any ops other than in Afgh right now? Exactly. They happen all over the place and we never hear about them or about the ones that go bad. If someone wrote a book about missions in some other armpit where we aren't actively at war, he'd be charged right away and incarcerated until his trial was over. Everyone knows we went into Cambodia too, so what? Yes, we know there are spec ops going on in other countries... but as much as Obama is vilified...if it ever got out the he authorized a operation into Afghanistan to get OBL, and it failed... and worse yet OBL got away... he would be burned at the stake by the right as a failure. And since we already know Obama is a Muslim trying to bring down America, well they just might try him as a sympathizer and traitor... but ya, that would never happen I'm sure. So how ever it would have shook out, Obama for his own skin, making matters worse with Pakistan, tipping off OBL that we were close, making the U.S. look stupid and giving a victory to AlQaeda... there would have most certainly been political fall out over a failed mission and America's finest dead at the hands of Obama.
The last... that is too broad of a brush to even take serious. You have no idea what, who, or how Obama is briefed and how he uses that intel or makes his decisions. You don't have a clue how Bush JR., or Clinton, or Johnson did either. That is what makes us us and them them.
All I know is this... from his own mouth, he said there was nothing political at all about it and if he takes swipes at his COC, then that is suspect. There are plenty in the spec op community that are not happy at all about it, yet he says his friends approve, that is suspect. The Government is not happy about it, that is suspect. I'm just taking him at his word because just for what he was he has earned that. But who knows what is really true. I'm pretty sure of the fact that we (the public) will be the last to know. Edited by powerman 2012-09-10 9:53 PM |
| 2012-09-10 10:45 PM in reply to: #4402812 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: "No Easy Day" I don't like Obama. I respect that he gave a green light to the mission. He had much more to lose than to gain politically....so I don't go down that road. As far as I'm concerned, he made the call as Commander in Chief. Again, I respect that. As far as "No Easy Day"....eh....like someone else stated, the White House has already granted interviews to be used for a movie and book, with the likely hope of it helping Obama in the November election....I don't respect that. |
| 2012-09-10 10:45 PM in reply to: #4402812 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: "No Easy Day" I don't like Obama. I respect that he gave a green light to the mission. He had much more to lose than to gain politically....so I don't go down that road. As far as I'm concerned, he made the call as Commander in Chief. Again, I respect that. As far as "No Easy Day"....eh....like someone else stated, the White House has already granted interviews to be used for a movie and book, with the likely hope of it helping Obama in the November election....I don't respect that. |
| 2012-09-11 1:08 AM in reply to: #4404919 |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: "No Easy Day" Left Brain - 2012-09-10 8:45 PM I don't like Obama. I respect that he gave a green light to the mission. He had much more to lose than to gain politically....so I don't go down that road. As far as I'm concerned, he made the call as Commander in Chief. Again, I respect that. As far as "No Easy Day"....eh....like someone else stated, the White House has already granted interviews to be used for a movie and book, with the likely hope of it helping Obama in the November election....I don't respect that. There's a big difference between the government reviewing and declassifying portions of the mission and a (former) operator going off on his own and talking about it. Some of you get riled up by Obama using it for political gain. Guess what - when you're the president and CIC, the buck stops with you. Signing off on something like this is a political gain if you win and walking the plank if you lose. This could've been another Mogadishu. |
| 2012-09-11 1:25 AM in reply to: #4404974 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: "No Easy Day" spudone - 2012-09-11 1:08 AM Left Brain - 2012-09-10 8:45 PM I don't like Obama. I respect that he gave a green light to the mission. He had much more to lose than to gain politically....so I don't go down that road. As far as I'm concerned, he made the call as Commander in Chief. Again, I respect that. As far as "No Easy Day"....eh....like someone else stated, the White House has already granted interviews to be used for a movie and book, with the likely hope of it helping Obama in the November election....I don't respect that. There's a big difference between the government reviewing and declassifying portions of the mission and a (former) operator going off on his own and talking about it. Some of you get riled up by Obama using it for political gain. Guess what - when you're the president and CIC, the buck stops with you. Signing off on something like this is a political gain if you win and walking the plank if you lose. This could've been another Mogadishu. Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with anything you wrote. I guess, in this situation, I would defer to what his partners and other operators think about him doing a book....and, admittedly, I haven't looked to see. I'll stick with my comments about President Obama.....I don't like him, but he pulled the trigger when he didn't have to, I respect that. That was probably "No Easy Day" for him either. |
| 2012-09-11 11:45 AM in reply to: #4402812 |
Member 127 Franklin | Subject: RE: "No Easy Day" when i worked my BN S2; any soldiers out processing had to sign a non-disclosure that covered a time span of 10 years. that was back between 98-00. im sure the ND is far more intricate now. |
|
|
|
|
View profile
Add to friends
Go to training log
Go to race log
Send a message
View album
CONNECT WITH FACEBOOK