OiPolloi's Group - FULL (Page 2)

OK Maia......here we go.
First off, you can call me Michael (my real name).  My screen name (oipolloi) is a word meaning "Common People" and is pronounced O-e,Pole O-e.  Its also the name of a punk rock band that I'm fond of. 

Congrats again on the WSD decision.  I know you'll appreciate having a bike that's built for your body dimensions.  My wife loves her WSD Specialized Dolce.

Bike training is a VERY important part of your overall triathlon training.  In my opinion it's probably the most important part.  Why?  Because in most cases the Bike leg is where you win or lose a race.  The bike leg is your opportunity to put some serious time on your own PR or on your competitors.  How to approach training?  Aggressively!  Unlike running, there is very little chance you can sustain over-use injury from cycling...assuming your bike is set up properly.  In simple terms, Time In The Saddle is goal #1.  The quality of T.I.T.S. is #2.  There are several types of workouts.  Some include.... Steady-State, Hill Repeats, Low-Cadence, Sprint Sims, one-leg drills, etc.  Most of my training consists of Hill Training (i live in a hilly area) and Steady-state with intervals.  I do low-cadence drills when I've been off the saddle for a while. 

BT offers several training plans for paying members.  I used the Bronze level Ironman schedule and it worked great for me.  Check them out and see if you find something that fits (bike or swim focused).  If you don't, let me know and I can come up with a Bike training schedule.  I could give you a three days-a-week plan.  How you incorporate the plan will be up to you.  I can't offer much training advice on Swimming because I'm fairly new to swimming.  I learned the Total Immersion style of swimming. 

The workout you described above appears fine but may need a little tuning.
Here's an example of a Bike workout you can try on your stationary bike:
- 60 minute Steady-State workout.  10 min warm-up at 85 rpm, 60% effort, 5 minute cool-down at 85 rpm at 60% effort.
- After warm-up do three 5min/5min drills @ 110rpm/90% effort followed by 5min recovery (50% effort).
- Following those 3 intervals, increase resistance 2 gears.  Do 5min 95rpm/90% effort followed by 5min recovery, then another 5min 95rpm/90%.....then cool-down.  These last two 5min efforts should concentrate on pushing a harder gear @ a lower cadence, keeping your HR (heart-rate) steady.  Try not to back off if you feel yourself fading towards the end of the interval. 

If you're not fatigued after this workout then you're not pushing yourself hard enough. 

Another fun workout I like to do focuses on climbing out of the saddle.  I start with a 10min warm up then I stand for 2 min, then spin for 8, then stand for 3, then sit for 7, then stand for 4, sit for 6, stand for 5, sit for 5, stand for 6, sit for 4....then cool down.  This shreds your legs.   Just be careful not to over-strain your knees.

Cadence:  You're right about cadence training.  Cadence is very important, but so is the power output you put into each pedal stroke.  I talk to my athletes about "Dead-Footing" which is something new cyclists tend to do.  Dead-Footers concentrate too much on turn-over rate and not enough on the amount of power they're putting into their pedals.  Don't be a dead-footer.

What is cadence?  The obvious answer is that its the number of revolutions your feet make per minute (rpm).  Why is it important?  A cadence of 85-95 RPM has been proven to be the point where you're using your legs most efficiently.  Anything slower and you're recruiting power from different muscle groups and are burning energy unnecessarily.  For triathletes, a higher cadence of 100-110 can be good, IF you can sustain this and still be efficient.  Why?  Because a faster, smoother cadence saves your legs for the Run portion.  If you find yourself "bouncing" on the saddle then your cadence is too fast.  The stronger you get and the more you train the fast cadence you'll be able to sustain. 

Try and get at least 3 Bike focused workouts a week.  One of these bike-focused workouts should be followed by a run (this is called Brick training).  Add one more easy bike workout with a harder run afterwards.  This will total 4 bike sessions a week, one of which will be easy but with a hard run.  This also gives you two solid Bricks a week.

That's it!  Be sure and ask questions if you have any regarding what I've explained above.  Be sure you're recovering correctly after your workouts (carbs & protein).

hanson1427 - 2007-01-03 5:45 AM Bike question, Is it worth putting clipon aerobars on my road bike. I only plan on doing sprint and oly distance tris. I quess I could see the advantage in longer races. I have watched the ITU race and most if not all of them seem to ride road bikes! Are tri specific bikes only better over the long course? It just seems like everyone wants a new tri bike, I would like a new road bike ( I currently ride a trek 1200) if that would give me the same or close to equal performance over shorter courses. Then I could use the new road bike for other things. I understand the whole "save you legs for the run' geometry, but honestly I am so short my angles are already pretty high on most road geometry bikes. I ride a 52cm. Just seems like everyone is caught up in the tribike phenom. Then again, I don't want to waste money on a new road bike, if the the 1200 is good enough. I guess that leads to another bike question. At what price point do road bikes become significantly better then my 1200? My 1200 was in the $1100 price range. What would be the next logical jump up. I got the 1200 becuase I didn't know if I would stay with riding. Ok sorry, alot of rambling, and questions all mixed together. Excuse is I just got back from the pool and I am a little O2 deprived. Ryan

Hey Ryan.  Glad to see you've been to the pool!

To answer your questions...
1) Yes, it may be worth putting clip-on aero bars onto your road bike if you are comfortable in that position.  Next time you're on your bike bend over in that position and put your elbows on the top of the handlebars.  If this is a position you're comfortable in, then clip-ons may be worth it.  The position does help save your legs and is aerodynamic.  But, if saving a minute or two off your finish time isn't a big factor to you then save your money.  Some people really enjoy the aero position, not only for tri's but for everyday riding.

2) ITU races have different drafting rules than USAT races, therefor you see a lot of riders on bikes with Road handlebars.  ITU courses are typically more twisty and turny as well, which makes it unsafe for riders n the aero position.

3) Tri bikes are not beneficial for only long course triathlons.  You can feel a noticeable difference on Sprint distance courses as well.  You're right about the position "saving your legs", but there is also a aerodynamic advantage.  This advantage only kicks in at speeds greater than 15mph or so.  However, a road bike will do just as fine if winning medals isn't your primary concern in doing triathlon.  I've been passed by many people who were on road bikes.  And when I raced on my road bike in triathlon I passed many people on high-end tri bikes.  Easy answer:  If you have $1500 burning a hole in your pocket then buy a tri bike for triathlon. 

4) The Trek 1200 is a nice bike with moderate components.  What you'll get from spending more money is a lighter frame, most likely made from an exotic material (carbon, titanium) and better functioning components.  There's no real "jump" in price points.  The bikes improve incrementally as you spend more money.  A guess one comparison would be your Trek 1200 @ $1100 to a Trek 2100 (lighter aluminum, better components) @ $1700 or a Trek 5000 (carbon) for $1900.  Again, this is all about budget.  If you can justify the expense (or have a very nice wife) then by all means, but what you want.  I justified the purchase of a $5000 Trek Madone 5.9 Project One custom because to me it was worth it.  I ride a lot, I coach a lot, and its better than spending the money on cigarettes or booze.    The only real way to tell if an upgrade in bikes is worth it is to test drive them. 

Hope that helps!  Let me know if you need more detail or clarification.

Hey Ryan,
Good decision on the aerobars.  I think you'll like them, especially if you like the position.  The 2 minute gain I refer to is just general.  There are a lot of factors that go into speed improvements.  If you happen to race a very hilly bike course you may actually lose speed if you're trying to climb in the drops.  But overall, if you're comfy in that position, you'll see improvements in overall speed.

Is it close aero wise to riding in the drops?  No, not necessarily.  When in the aero position your arms are tucked in, in front of your torso.  When in road drops your arms are outside of your torso in the wind.  When in aero you are also stretched further forward.  You'll see what I mean once you have the bars mounted and are in the correct position.  Or, just look at a few photos of people in road drops vs. aerobars.  Its a very different riding position.

Purpose of drops on a road bike include, but are not limited to... Control, Power and Aerodynamics.  As you mentioned, you will feel the "butt muscles" get recruited because of the more aggressive position.  On a steeper angled tri bike and in aero position you'll not notice the pull on the hamstrings as much as riding in the drops on a road bike. 

So, if you put aerobars on your road bike you might want to move the saddle forward and tilt down a smidge to comensate for the forward position.  If you don't ride in the drops very much then I wouldn't touch your setup.

I have a female friend who's in the Navy and is stationed in San Diego.  She doesn't run but is a strong biker.  If you're there a while and need someone to ride with let me know.  Maybe you two can hook up.

Wow!! Thanks for all the bike tips. I was going to try it out today, but I decided to swim and run instead. Hopefully (fingers crossed) I'll have a bike by the end of this weekend and I'll be on it nonstop...well you know what I mean. Uhm...I was going to say something, but I forgot.

A few questions:

*Maybe it's the weather here (I swim in an outdoor pool) but my goggles keep fogging up ALL the time. By the time I get to the end of a 50m lap they're fogged and I have to stop and clear them out. Does anyone have any tips for this?

*For the people who have long hair - how do you organize your ponytail with your helmet? I was just trying on some helmets and it seems like I have to have my hair in a low ponytail or braid while biking, but then when running I like to wear it high. Any solutions to this when it comes to transitioning?

I think that's all for now. Happy first week of the new year!

Goggles fogging:  Best remedy is spit.  After you jump in the pool get the goggles wet and acclimated to the pool temperature.  Then, spit a little saliva in each lens and wipe gently with your finger, careful not to scratch.  Another quick dunk into pool water to rinse any excess then place on your head.  That's always worked for me.  I've tried different Anti-Fog drops and they didn't work at all. 

Pony Tail:  I don't have one, but my wife does.  She will either tie it low and wear it through the hole in the back of the helmet (between the helmet and support strap).  I've also seen ladies wear their hair in TWO rear pony tails, one to each side and back, kind of behind the ears.  Or.....you can just cut all your hair off.

Transitioning:  Maybe consider wearing a hat and tucking your hair under it when running.

hanson1427 - 2007-01-06 4:08 PM Do we have a current list of who is in our group. I just want to make sure I have everybody. Thanks! I like looking at evryones training, everyone seems to be getting in some good stuff. Ryan P.S. When is everyones first race. I am planning on doing the east cooper tri in march (SC), and then the paris island sprint, and lake murray sprint in may. Let the countdown begin. wast cooper tri is an ocean swim...march...can you say cold! Never used a wetsuit. Guess I'll have to rent one. hint, hint, hint. WET SUIT QUESTIONS TO FOLLOW!

Hey Ryan,
The group so far is.....

Elizabeth: (Summer_2005) New Haven CT
Jason: (gr8jason) San Antonio
Lesley-Anne: (gentle_storm) Spokane WA
Ryan: (hanson1427) Ft. Bragg NC
Chris: (ogdenc)
Maia: (two_degrees_north) Singapore

My first triathlon is the James O'Rourke in North Platte, NE in April. (sprint).  I have several other foot races and bike races in between triathlons.  Most of them just for fun.

Your first race of the season sounds fun.  A cold swim in the ocean!  I know a little about wetsuits, but not everything there is to know.  I can tell you that you should try them on before buying, or renting obviously.  It should be tight, but not so tight you can't breath.  Also, a lot of Full Sleeve wetsuits are limiting in arm extension, so many people recomend sleeveless suits, which is what I own.  I know some of the newer high-end full sleeve suits don't have the "limitation" problem.  Also, buy a roll-on stick of BodyGlide.  This stuff really helps with chaffing and helps the wetsuit slip on and off easier.

Hello everyone,

My first race isn't scheduled yet. I believe in the area the first race is a run-bike-run in March. I'm having a hard time finding about when registration is though.

Michael, I did the first half of the workout you suggested (since I was only doing a 30 minute bike) and man did my legs feel weak. What is dead-footing? It would be great if you could write up that 3 days a week bike workout for me. Still haven't gotten the bike though!! I was talking to a few lady triathletes who have ridden a Trek1000 WSD and they recommended me to put in the extra money for a 105 groupset. I asked the shop and they said I could get a trek1500 with 105 ... but it almost doubles the price!!! I know someone who's selling their trek1000, but I've been warned that if I buy a used bike I won't have the after services I'd get from a store (which I don't really know what they are). I'm going to do a little more research and hopefully have a bike by the end of the week. It's still the rainy season, so no rush to get a bike yet.

I LOVE my swims. It's so relaxing and painless (okay, maybe I'm not training hard enough). The goggle trick definitely worked last night. We'll see if it still works during the day.

Question: Are any of you guys afraid of open water swims? I grew up around the ocean and know how to handle the water well but I've always had a fear of creepy things lurking around especially imaginary sharks. It's okay when I'm snorkling/scuba diving and I can actually see things, but I'm always super aware of "hey what's that dark blob over there". I even caught myself thinking that in the pool last night (outdoor pool, it was really dark and I was swimming alone). I guess maybe with practice in the ocean it'll go away.

Hey Maia!

I'm glad you tried the workout, and I'm glad it had its intended effect (weak legs).  Now, try and get the 1-hour workout done.  Dead Footing is when a person puts too much effort into just maintaining their cadence but isn't putting effort (power) into their pedals.  Basically just free spinning.  Once you get the cadence you should shift to the proper gear so that you're applying the appropriate energy to the pedals.  But I don't think you have this issue.

Personally I don't think a 105 group is worth doubling the price of the bike.  There isn't THAT much difference between Tiagra and 105 (depends on exact dollars they're talking).  But again, if you can afford a 105 bike, then why not spend the extra money.  If you plan on riding for years and years, then the few extra hundred $$ mill be worth it.

The "extras" that the shop gives when buying new bikes is usually Free tune-ups and adjustments for a year and a discount off of other accessory purchases.  If you buy used you're typically on your own and will have to pay fr any work done, and no discounts.

I'm not afraid of open water, but I've only swm in local lakes.  No chance of large fish eating me!  And, the water is so murky in lakes that you can't see more thana foot or two deep.  The thing I would fear is the under-tow or being drug out to sea. 

gentle_storm - 2007-01-08 4:02 PM Hello! So I finally got my avatar up, but after I saw that it doesn't look great really small I couldn't change it. So there you have ME, acting as a gorilLA, with some distortion. Sorry if the pic is disturbing to anyone . Question for any swimmer fabulouso's: Do you have any tips on how to turn the body while swimming/with each stroke? )

Gorilla?  I see a small baby playing with a toy.  Either your pics are screwed up or your just being funny.  Either way, funny. 

By "turn" I assume you mean Rotate.  If so, then I used the T.I. (total immersion) method of learning to swim.  To get the proper hip/torso rotation we practice drills called "Sweet Spot".  In these drills we would rotate to one side, using your hips, just about to the point where you'll roll on your back, but not quite.  You relax in this "sweet spot" for a while as you flutter kick, then do a stroke and switch sides.  I'm sure your masters group will have a lot of info for you.  Let us know how it goes.

Gorilla?  I see a small baby playing with a toy.  Either your pics are screwed up or your just being funny.  Either way, funny. 

Indeed, I am pretty funny , but that was totally unintentional. I was just trying to get the gorilla picture to disappear, so I clicked on a picture of my nephew Will. He'll be happy to know he is gorilla-like. I think I got the gorilla picture up. Now that I know how to change it, maybe I'll update it through its evolutionary stages...

By "turn" I assume you mean Rotate.  If so, then I used the T.I. (total immersion) method of learning to swim.  To get the proper hip/torso rotation we practice drills called "Sweet Spot".  In these drills we would rotate to one side, using your hips, just about to the point where you'll roll on your back, but not quite.  You relax in this "sweet spot" for a while as you flutter kick, then do a stroke and switch sides.  I'm sure your masters group will have a lot of info for you.  Let us know how it goes.

Fantastic question Jason.

The old adage of "don't eat after a certain time at night" has been proven to be hogwash, particularly if you're an active person.  If you do nothing but sofa surf then you should be concerned.  Otherwise, you should be eating whenever you feel you are hungry, or anytime you're in need of a recovery meal, such as after a workout.  If you were to go home after a good workout and NOT eat, your body will cannibalize its muscles in order to repair and rebuild what damage you did during the workout.  So, you must recover by eating, no matter what time of the day or night.  Just make sure you're eating the RIGHT types of food.  Complex carbs & lean protein.  Whey or Soy powder mixed into a recovery drink before bed may be a good meal.  Not only will it feed your muscles, but will be easier on your digestive tract while you're sleeping.  I make recovery shakes out of Soy Milk, Whey Protein, Frozen Blueberries and a banana.  This covers all the bases.

Sounds like an infection maybe.  Better get it looked at if it continues to hurt.

I once tried earplugs and didn't like them.  They actually caused more pain than having water in my ears.  I've also heard that there's a LESS risk of infection if you DON'T use plugs of any sort because it allows water to flow in and out rather than get trapped. 

This may be a good question for the Triathlon forum.

Hello everyone!

I'm not an expert but here's my two cents of advice

gentle storm - You could try practicing outside of the pool standing up in front of a mirror. Then you can watch exactly how you're doing it and try to tune what you're doing wrong. Maybe it's in the timing of your strokes. I think when you're in about midstroke on the downpull with your left your right arm should already be exiting the water with your elbow pointing to the sky (I'm trying to imaginary swim sitting on my couch describing this right now...so it might not be that accurate). In this way your right shoulder should be pointing up and your chest facing to the right. Anyway, I suggest practicing the correct motion a lot where you can see what you're doing until it feels kind of natural.

Haven't shaved my head yet! I did it a few years back when the weather was super hot. We'll see after my first tri how it works out.

Ear pain - I was fooling around in the ocean trying to scare my mom by grabbing her legs and I ended up getting kneed straight in the ear. When I first jumped into the pool a few weeks ago to start swimming I had pretty bad ear pain. Any kind of pressure really hurt. I also experienced an annoying thing where water would trickle into my left ear as I breathed on my left side. I bought some speedo ear plugs and swam a few times with those. My experience was that it created a funny air pressure in my ears which sometimes hurt. I took them out and started swimming with my swimcap pulled over my ears. A little water would still get in though. Now my ears are doing well, I only feel the pain occasionally. Maybe our bodies just need to adjust.

Question: If you were to recommend the bare minimum tri gear essentials (for a woman) what would it include? I'm saving up to get a bunch of gear (bike included!) at the end of the month. I've made some friends at a store where I think I'll get a discount if I buy a bunch of gear from there.

Essential tri gear?  Probably a good pair of tri specific shorts or bike shorts.  Pearl Izumi, Zoot, DeSoto....all make good stuff.  Try...All3Sports.com  A good tri top or jersey is also a must.  Something with pockets so you can carry gels or sunglasses etc.  And, buy a Race Belt....the thing that your race number snaps to.  Attaching your number to your jersey with a safety-pin is NOT the way to go.

As far as tri specific bike shoes, I don't see the benefit for an age grouper.  I ride in what's comfortable.

I should also mention:  USAT regulations are that you can't lose or disguard anything during a race (throw trash etc).  That's why a jersey with pockets are important and a race number belt.  You'll see a lot of people who don't use number-belts lose their race numbers.  You can get penalized for this.

Hey Chris!  Glad to see you're alive and well.  I know how busy you must be getting ready for the marathon.

I got into tri's as a complete non-swimmer.  After taking a few classes just to learn the basics (and lose the nose plug) I read and practiced Total Immersion.  T.I. worked very well for me.  I'm still not fast (2min/100) but at least I can go the distance in somewhat comfort.

Good luck with the marathon.  Be sure and let us know how it goes.  And be sure and write up a race report when its over.