Ernie's Group - Closed (Page 2)

Hey Sean,

Welcome to the group.  I'm sure that you'll do well this year with the triathlons.

Ernie

It would great if everyone would visit and inspire each other's logs.  I like knowing other people are watching my training.  It helps with the accountability.  The logs are a great way to meet and track other people's training.   I train a lot with other BTers that are local to me that I met on line.  I know everyone's busy but if you have time, start visiting logs you see on BT.

Ernie

Thought I would try give a tip of the day (or at least days when I have time or think of something).  The two most important things I've learned about triathlon are understanding why I'm doing triathlons and realistically how much time do I have to do this.  There's no right answer to why people do triathlons.  It can be to win, finish, socialize, get in shape, challenge themselves, etc.  For me, it's become a lifestyle that I enjoy.  If you don't understand your reasons, you are going to get frustrated.  The second part of this is understanding how much time you have and matching it to your goals.  If you want to be competitive but only have a few hours a week to train, you're going to get frustrated.  This is a hobby for us and you need to be happy doing this or you will give it up.  

I liked to hear what you guys learn as you go along.

Ernie

Reasons
To be active and challenge myself. The social aspect of being involved with other people doing the same.

Goals
To learn about and to train as best I can. To get around as fast I can.

Training
Ernie pointed out to me that to be competative you need to train more than once per week per discipline. I'm now going to try to do two sessions per discipline, my second weekly swim session will start in February when I can get more access to a pool. Should I build my weekly sessions to be 80% endurance and 20% speed? Tonight I did a 5.9km run trying to keep my HR below 80%. To do this I had to walk about 1/3 of the distance? Was this a worthwhile session or should I be going shorter and increasing my HR?

Take care all
John

I'm not sure how you calculated your HR zone but at this point you don't need to worry about speed.  It should be all about building your ability to do repeatable training.  I like Endurance Nation's definition of base/fitness/training as "The ability to do work".    For beginner's it's important that they increase their ability to work.   A quote I read sums it up, "Speed is the icing on the cake but you have to have the cake first".  Cake is base training.

Here's a link to a great thread on HR training:  http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25733&start=1

I hope this helps.

Ernie

Reasons why: 

More and more people I know have started triathlons, most of them not because they will be competitive but because they enjoy the challenge.

I've never participated in endurance sports and I'm 5'10" and 200 lbs. So, I don't have the sports background or the body type to be age group competitive.  I've mentally wrestled with that and concluded, what the hell, there'll be dozens of 45-50 guys in every competition I'll enter and only three of them wil go to the podium.  That's not a reason not to be the best I can be.  Besides for every 45-50 year guy in the race, there's 1,000 of them at home watching TV or mowing the lawn. 

Because I'm a spin instructor and an avid cyclist I occasionally get asked if I'm training for something, so I might as well be.

Since deciding a few months ago that I was going to commit to training, I have really enjoyed the mental and physical challenges involved in relearning how to swim and becoming more serious about running. 

Having some new goals to focus my fitness activities on is fun.

I'm healthy at my current weight but I really would like to be about 15 pounds lighter and I wasn't getting their with the old routines.  The weight thing is a secondary objective but a bonus if I can achieve it.

Time Commitment: 

As long as I stay healthy, I don't think this will be a problem for me.  I probably did some form of fitness activity -- in the gym, teaching spinning, on the bicycle, x-country skiing, etc. -- 250 days in 2008.  So, I don't think I'd need to put in more time simply to finish the sprint tri that is my first objective.  I have stopped lifting weights in favor of spending more time running and swimming. 

I've set some objectives in terms of time for the first sprint and also to move to a longer distance later in 2009 and these objectives will require, I think, an additional 2-4 hours of training a week over and above what I've been doing for the last few years.  That's going to be logistically doable most weeks, not mentally difficult as long as I continue to enjoy the new challenges and not physically difficult as long as I am careful not to overdo it. 

Reasons
To give myself a goal to work towards and to challenge myself with things that have always been difficult to me because of how I am built. Also this could lead into me eventually doing an adventure race which I'd love to do.

Goals
Long term to eventually get back to being able to do half-ironman distances. Medium range goals are to finish this 20 week program and my immediate Goal is to finish week 2.

Training
I just need to keep my sleep schedule and the amount of training will be fine for my current goal I train around 3 hours a week and will be peaking at 6 hours.

Good topic

 Reasons:  Numerous, but I think the biggest is to have something to strive for, a goal to reach.  It has been years since I had a reason to train for any competition beyond staying in shape for my job.  The last time I competed in anything was 15+ years ago when I competed in a few cat-5 bike races.   I have always wanted to participate in a Tri and see if I can complete one of the longer distance races.  I think this is a true test, not only physically but mentally as well.  I really want to push myself and see what I am capable of.  I also have two young boys who are at a very impressionable age and I want them to see dad set a difficult goal and attain it.   Historically I have participated in team sports.  The great thing about Tri-s is that my success or failure falls totally on my shoulders, can't blame the team for my performance. 

Goals:  Goal is to complete a HIM in August.  Not trying to set the world on fire, just trying to finish at a level I feel I am capable of.   I will also do a Olympic Tri in June.  Potentially more throughout the season. 

Training:  This will be the most difficult part.  I like the analogy used earlier of making the cake before the icing.  The majority of my training will take place in the morning as I want to minimize my impact on the family.  I am lucky to have a wife who enjoys working out at the gym, and the gym has childcare so that helps us out and the kids really enjoy going there.  Back to building the cake, this will be the real test for me, having to push myself, over the course of months to attain a goal down the road.  The fear of failure, a sense of commitment, and now being part of a mentor group will keep me going.  Being accountable and not wanting to let the "team" (family,  mentor group)down helps me to stay motivated.

Greg 

I thought I would share one of my favorite web sites:

http://www.coachgordo.com/gtips/index.html

This is Gordo Bryne's website.  Here's a quote from his website:  "Following five years of general endurance training, I completed my first Ironman in 1999 (11:06).  Since that time, I’ve completed fifteen Ironmans and won the Ultraman World Championships. The most satisfying aspect of my recent race performance has been the consistency of results (my last six Ironmans all being completed under 9 hours).

I have three things that I believe are essential to making progress in athletics: consistency, recovery and the right mental attitude. I believe very strongly that the last item in that list is by far the most important. I do a lot of work training my mind. The next most important is recovery. About half of the long distance athletes I know spend their lives on the edge of, or slightly over, the overtraining abyss. I believe this is the most overlooked aspect of superior performance. Finally, I believe that consistent work, rather than hard work, is what reaps the most dividends."

He also posts on BT and has a mentor group.  Definitely worth checking out.

Ernie

I am curious if there are any sites that compare effort on a lifecycle to that of a real road bike? Also I have heard triathletes do freestyle swimming without their legs to save them for the bike and run, any truth to this?

BTW I did my run thanks for reminding me :-D

I'll try find a link to a site that explains it better but in a triathlon swim the legs/kick are used for body position and to promote rotation, not really for propulsion.  Usually, I only kick hard enough to maintain my balance in the water.  The only swimming most people see is the Olympics.  Olympic swimming is a sprint and you'll see the swimmers throwing up huge rooster tails from their kick.  You won't see this in triathlons. 

I don't think you'll find a comparison between a lifecycle and real road bike.   I've never seen a site or information that does that.  The biggest problem is that the riders position on a lifecycle is so much different than a road/tri bike.  From what I've read, the best way to simulate outdoor riding is with your own bike on a trainer or rollers and then next best is a spin bike that you can set up close to your own bike.  I'm not sure this helps.

Ernie

There's really no way to do a conversion that would fit everyone.  Speed is a function of watts (power output), wind resistance (wind conditions and your aerodynamic position on the bike), rolling resistance (the type and condition of your bike, e.g., fatter tires = more rolling resitance) and a bunch of other factors.  This website (link) let's you estimate speed based on these factors. 

What you want to pay attention to on the Lifecycle is watts output and heart rate. The training goal is obviously to increase your sustainable wattage output given the level of input (heart rate).

I did my first ever session on a gym bike today. Usually I ride as fast as I can – which isn't too fast. So it's interesting to read and learn from the above posts. Any ideas how I could do 1 hour gym sessions, with a view to improving my power? Is there a particular heart zone to train in when working on power? Where does cadence fit into all this?

Gordo Byrne's site is is a real inspiration, so methodical, something I've never been in any training I've done.

John

I've never been a big fan of using the word power in conjunction with endurance training (unless your using a power meter on a bike).  What you're trying to do is increase your ability to do work (or a specific activity).   If you want to be able to train for an hour, you need to decrease the intensity level to that which you can sustain for an hour.  For example, during a 1 hour running session this may mean walking some of the hour to make it to the finish.

What this comes down to is one of the biggest arguments in endurance training, how much or how to balance volume with intensity.  Most people agree for beginners the emphasis is on increasing your volume.  Intensity needs to be added slowly and at the correct time in the training cycle (my opinion). 

As far as HR zones, until you have the fitness to finish a HR test, I would use the basis of going at an intensity that allows you to carry on a conversation.  Remember the goal is to train consistently, not have one big training session and then have to take 3 days off.

I posted a link to a good discussion on HR zone training in one of my earlier posts.  I paste in your training log.

Ernie

John - I'm a spinning / indoor cycling instructor (get a free gym membership out of it), have done spinning for about 10 years and have done a fair amount of road cycling in the last few years.  So on this topic, I'm comfortable offering a little advice.

If by "gym bike" you mean a Lifecycle or similar device, I'd encourage you to try something else.  Those things are not really built for people training to do outdoor or competitive cycling.  Notice for instance how short the crank arms are on a Lifecyle; they're like the ones on a kid's bicycle.  Also, you really can not employ a proper pedal stroke on a Lifecycle.

I think finding a spinning class and / or getting a trainer to put your bike on is a much better bet in terms of potential training benefits.  If you try spinning, my advice there would be to try to find a class taught by an instructor who rides an actual bike!  Many don't and what you get in that case is an aerobics class on a bike, not a cycling class.  In the cycling classes I teach I emphasize only a few things --  cadence, proper pedal stroke, proper body position and balance and HR / breathing awareness.

There's tons of stuff to read on the internet on these topics.  Try googling "cycling pedal stroke" and "cycling cadence".

I read some of Byrne's site too.  One of the things I took away from it boils down to, 'if you want to become a better runner, run a lot'.  Same with cycling I think.  Once you get a few basic techniques down, your ability to generate more watts for a longer time will come with more time in the saddle.

Oh, and I would add that there are two indispensible pieces of equipment you need for cycling whether indoors or out - padded shorts and cycling shoes with cleats.

-Howard

For those of you trying to lose weight.  Check out the Tri'ing for weightloss forum.  Here's a link: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/forum-view.asp?fid=16#s

They often run challenges.  This is a way to lose weight with a group and excellent way to increase accountability and to track progress.

Ernie

Ernie, yes the balance between volume and intensity is something I've got to work out. But another important variable for me is the quality of my training. I've built up an alright cycling base over the past 12 months in which I've cycled about 2000 miles. These have been on rides of between 20 and 70 miles, with the longest being 125 miles. These rides have not particularly structured, and not of the highest quality – I haven't got much faster over this period either. I also commute 6 miles a day, which I do on a fixed wheel so my cadence and my pedal stroke have got better, I don't count this as training. I haven't done a structured HR test so am just working from the max I've hit on my polar, which is 201. I'd now like to focus building speed for 20km cycle of a sprint tri.

Howard, I don't even know what make the static bike was but the position was very different from a road bike. I had a idea that I could maybe do intervals or 2x20 sessions on it to try get faster, but maybe I'd be better off just riding hilly routes or getting a turbo

Cycling is the least of my worries though, the swim and run are the big challenges for me.

Hope ye all had good weekends
John

My body is wierd, maybe it is part from my ADHD but the more tired I get the more energy I have. I tend to find I also because of my past fitness experiences am recovering my old level of fitness really quick. My thing is I don't know how to balance the volume and intesity because I don't feel sore or tired the next day. I can push myself to the point of puking and not feel it the next day. I need to know is it better to just go slow? I tend to at the end of a run, bike, swim up the intensity and push through the end for a near sprint level.

 I hope this makes sense, Also I can not afford a bike until probably mayish and even then it will be a mountain bike because those I can get for around less then a hundred dollars. Should I then train on the spin bikes at the gym instead of the lifecycle?

Phil - As you can probably tell from my earlier comments, I think the spinning bikes give you a more realistic ride feel than the Lifecycles, regardless of whether you are going to be riding a mountain bike or a road bike when you actually get outside.

 -Howard

http://spreadsheetcreations.com/bike_wattage.htm

This is a cool chart to compare wattage to actually speed.

It's been interesting seeing ya'll post for the last two weeks and the different topics.  I've been surprised on how many questions there have been regarding intensity.  I went back and looked at things I posted and realized I had the same questions.  All I can say is you have to trust that building base is the way to excel in endurance sports.  The important thing is to work on increasing your volume through consistency.

In the early parts of any training plan, you will feel it's too easy but you have to trust to the plan.  It's not just building up your aerobic capacity and muscle strength but also the ability of your soft tissue (ligaments and tendons) to with stand the stress of training.  Something like 25% of the people that register for an IM don't make it to the starting line.  As one point (not statistically relavent) of evidence, I did an IM in 11:34 with exactly zero speed work.

Ernie

John,

The best way to improve your bike speed is time in the saddle ().  Structured training is important in that you should have a goal entering each training session whether it be a tempo, endurance, intervals, stength, etc.   It's hard to do long rides during the winter and can be a good time to work on strength and hills but you shouldn't be anywhere near your max.  (Although max HR is a myth and shouldn't be used in establishing training zones).

In my experience (and I'm not a coach) training consistently and establishing a solid base will help you meet your goals.

Ernie