Why you should swim with a Snorkel and other new ideas... (Page 2)

Joe M - 2006-06-22 1:45 PM Well... a few things... 1) Hypoxic (i.e., oxygen deprivation) does not improve VO2... at least according to a study I read some time ago... (I'll dig this research up later this evening... as, it seemed to have disappeared from the search engine from this site.) The abillity of the body to convert oxygen to energy (in simplistic terms) is not defined so much by oxygen consumption, but it is defined more by conversion. The lungs can bring in more than enough oxygen to the body.... but, the bodies ability to convert this into energy is the limiting factor. I believe it was someone on this site who mentioned that they use a tube that limits oxygen intake as a way to develop adaptation for higher altitude racing (as related to running). In that instance, maybe it would have some effect - but, I've not seen any research to prove this. Others have claimed that breathing through a tube helps muscular lung strength... which may or may not be the case... but, that really doesn't matter since muscular strength of the lungs has virtually no effect on oxygen conversion. The only known positive influence that breathing through a tube (whether it be in water or running) is if you have some neurological issue with regard to breathing rythym. I have seen these tubes used by Respriratory Therapists to help facilitate breathing issues with individuals who have CP or other neurological disorders. However, I know of no research that indicates this would help athletic performance. The terms Hypoxic training and Interval training are commonly confused (specially among swimmers). The key difference being that Interval Training is where Oxygen is not limited in terms of consumption but rather the body is being forced into a state that makes it need more oxygen but has hit it's limits of CONVERSION capacity. IMHO, Hypoxic training simply gets to this state sooner and thus deprives the bodies ability to achieve this state through a longer process. It is this longer process that provides the bodies key mechinisms to achieve better oxygen conversion ability. I guess you could say ... Hypoxic training is akin to training to crash on a bike... yea... it would make you good a preparing for crashing... but, is that really the purpose of training to increase performance?

>>>All good stuff. here is my only counterpoint: IF Wolfgang Detriech, the best IM swimmer of all time, has his swimmers swim hypoxic in his masters class - chances are you should do it. I have been invoilved with research studies - and I have seen how the data is 'gathered' - and I am not going to rely on a research group of 3 people to dictate how or why I should or should not use hypoxic techniques. You can counterpoint me until the cows come home, and since I have seen these methods work first hand, no research study will change my mind. For MOST athletes, if you TELL them something works, and they BELIEVE it, chances are its GOING TO WORK. There is no better research group than having coached hundreds of swimmers over the years from ages 3-73  - I know what I know, and I know what I have seen work - so bottom line is, you can have an open mind and try something new, or you can continue to do what you are doing and create an opportunity for yourself to improve. Like I said in an earlier post, I am willing to try anything legal to get faster. After I swam 58:xx at IMNZ last year I realized that I can still get to 56:xx at some point, even though I am getting older - and have already been swimming for almost 20 years. I keep trying new things and some work and some don't. You can bet I wouldn't come on the forum here and tell you about something unless I thought it worked.

Peace,
Mike

The goal of most training is to maintain the longest period of time in a state of NEAR oxygen conversion failure (IMHO... this is not deprivation). The "NEAR" state is commonly referred to as functional threshold (whether this be HR, VO2, Watts, etc). Just how much you need to be in this functional state is dependent upon your training goals (i.e., long periods of activity vs. shorter periods of activity). Teaching the body to convert O2 to it's optimal level is the key. And, I have seen no study to indicate that Hypoxic training provides this ability (of course, I may have missed something and someone can indicate a study to me). FWIW Joe Moya

lynda - 2006-06-22 7:25 PM Why do I get sucked into these threads?! Hey, if Mike Ricci and Doug Stern advocate using a snorkel during your swim training, you should probably keep an open mind... I can't comment on increasing one's VO2 max, but Doug is an advocate of snorkel training because it allows you to concentrate on working on your stroke deficiencies without having to add breathing back into the equation. It is a training tool. I can't speak for Doug, but I think the main point is that perfecting a swim stroke is hard enough; if you can tease out the breathing while working on another aspect, you'll be well served. Doug believes that you should stay aerobic while you swim, just as you do biking and running. If a snorkel helps you work on your stroke without having to rotate every 2-5 strokes, the stronger swimmer you'll be once you add in the breathing portion of the stroke. And, Bear, I understand where you're coming from, but biking and running don't require you to turn your body to the side to breathe. You just breathe when you need to. You don't need to worry where your feet are in relation to your head. The snorkel just helps with stroke technique, if I understand the concept. Can't wait to read Mike's formal thoughts.

RGRBILL - 2006-06-27 5:11 PM

Quote from Peter Reid:

Peter Reid, the first athlete FINIS has sponsored, won the 2003 Ironman Triathlon World Championship on Saturday, October 18 with a swim time of 00:50:36, and finishing time of 8:22:36. In interviews immediately following the race, Peter commented "I had the best swim of my life."

At the FINIS Swim Clinic in Kona during the week prior to the race, Mr. Reid said, "I never make a workout without my Tempo Trainer. It's awesome for pool swims. It's awesome for open water swims."

I used a Tempo Trainer when I was learning how to swim last year doing TI drills. It helped me quite a bit, but the batteries didn't last long. I sent the first one back to Finis after it died in just a week, the second died in two weeks and it's in my glove box of my car. I need to use one again because I am having trouble turning my hands over fast in the water (a remnant of my TI drills I suspect... having my lead hand out front for so many drills...). I'm just reluctant to shell out $30 and have them keep dying on me.

Mike do you know if that has been a frequent problem or did I possibly get a bad lot? I'd absolutely use one again if I thought it would last a while. BTW, yes I was turning it off after each workout.

AusVirgin - 2006-06-28 11:08 PM I got the Wetronome (great name hey, with a little gnome as the logo...) and the battery has lested well, it was cheaper than the TT and more robust. Little more fiddly to set up though. But if you're looking for an alternative I would recommend it.

mikericci - 2006-06-22 6:53 AM

I love to experiment with new training toys. It keeps me motivated, I get to see what works, what doesn't and if I can get faster using it. Last month I messed around with a metronome for swimming and running and if you have been reading my log you'll know that I have been using a snorkel recently.

A quick re-cap: The metronome or Tempo Trainer (TT) (Cost is $29.99) as it's called is a little electronic watch-like device. In the pool you can clip the TT onto your goggle strap and it will beep at the cadence you set it to. With your TT comes a bunch of info on how to use it at different settings etc. World Class swimmer swim at a rate of a stroke every .77 for 1650 - that's a pretty quick turnover.

For running, you can clip the TT to your hat or onto your shorts or even hold it in your hand (It's about the size of a silver dollar) and set the cadence to the desired pace. If you want to run 90 cadence you set the TT to .67 and off you go.

In both instances I have seen solid improvement in my swimming and running - my cadence has gone up on the run and my swim turnover is more consistent now than before. This is definitely a 'must-have' for the tool box.

Snorkels: Right now I am experimenting with the Finis Swimmer's Snorkel (cost is $39.99)- the main reasons I am trying this:
1. The Australian National Team is using them in all their training
2. They increase VO2 as it's harder to get O2 when you are breathing through the snorkel
3. It will help you see your entry, hand position and catch b/c you aren't turning your head to breath.

So - I'll have more of a write up by end of next month on these two products - I need to get all my thoughts pros/cons on paper first. My impression so far has been good and I will recommend that all the athletes I coach use these products. My opinion is that the technology is there so we might as well use it and make training more fun AND improve in the process (see June's D3 newsletter - "Process Focused vs. Results Focused" http://www.d3multisport.com/newsletter/june2006.htm).

Lastly, if you want to try out the TT for yourself or the Swimmer's Snorkel, I have secured a discount of 20% for BT.com users - they also sell Zoomers, swim suits, hand paddles, goggles, videos, mono fins etc. The website is: http://www.swimyourbest.com/SearchByCategory.aspx?CategoryCode=2

**The coupon code is 'tempotr20ainer'
***The TT is backordered until August is what I am being told

Remember, have fun in your training!

Special K - 2007-02-16 1:48 AM At the last race I did last season a guy wore the snorkel that goes over the forehead in the middle, is that the one your talking about. I am going into only my 4th season and just assumed that something like that would be illegal, I asked the USTA offical and he said is it "was within the rules". Sort of a weird answer if you ask me. I have been curious sense then if it would help in any way?

yojimbo - 2007-02-15 10:27 PM

Picked up a Simmer's Snorkel and Tempo Trainer (along with the Finnis Freestyler hand paddles) in a kit and have been looking for a post or article where Mike might have gone into more detail about incorporating them in workouts. I've been out of the water for the most of six months while sticking to the run and I'm wondering how to best use them as I get back in the water (or if I should even mess with them at all).

The snorkel seems pretty self explanatory. It's using the TT with the swim that has me guessing.

The Finnis paddle is also a little different then the other paddles I've used (more of an arrow cut rather than a 'mitten'). It's interesting. Anyone tried it out?

A snorkel will help you more in training imo - b/c you can see your hand entry and 'catch' on EVERY stroke which allows you to self correct - imo one of the best tools you can have to help your swim stroke right next to getting a swim lesson/video tape session.

madkat - 2007-03-28 8:07 AM

My snorkel just arrived yesterday!

Any tips? 

Start swimming! Get comfortable with it and learn to watch what your swim stroke looks like: entry, catch, etc. Good luck and have fun!