Todd's Tri Turtles 4 (Beginner, Sprint, 5K, 10K) CLOSED (Page 2)

Nicole welcome to the Turtles. The fact that you have a husband and son that are into cycling is a huge plus for you on this journey. I am one as you will find out that believes most of triathlon and how we do depends most largely on the bike portion. The best way to conquer your fears of the bike is to work slowly and smartly up in distance. What I mean is that the more you ride the more your confidence will grow. Add in little things like dodging a imaginary pot hole or trying to hold a specific line, tight turn around, as you do all those things it will become second nature.

Shawn, welcome to the Turtles. You already know what it's all about and what it going to take to get you back to that point. I think this group will be great for you to share the journey back and possibly help others by what did and didn't work or what have you this time and last time. I feel you on the self-confidence part of all this, when everything is going right in my workout and my races I just hold my head an little higher, not for anyone else but just me.

Alright everyone,

We are started to get a really good group together but I would like to leave the group open for a little bit longer to allow some more to come in. A larger group means more posts, which means a more active group. The other things here is that based off my three years of doing this at least some who have already signed up will not be around very long (I hope yall will be my first group with no drop outs). Not being negative it is just so. I have had some make their one and only post on BT asking to be in the Mentor Group and then never even log on again. You will all get out of this group what you put into it and if there is something I'm not doing or giving that you want, then just let me know. I will go into more things when the group is full.

O.K., so let's start with this as a first thing in the group. I would like everyone to come up with one question that you want answered about this sport, a discipline, training, or what have you. No question is to small and there are no dumb questions. If you see a person above you asked the question you thought of then think of another.

Example:

Question: What is the minimum equipment that I need to participate in a triathlon.

Answer: Shirt, Shorts, Shoes, Helmet, and any Bicycle. You don't have to have fancy tri gear or a fancy bike to complete your first tri. You can run and ride in the same shoes if you have standard pedals or cages. Sometimes we think we have to have all this stuff and the truth is we don't have to have anything other than what I listed. I left socks off because a lot of people don't wear them when they race.

i am starting the BT couch to Sprint. It mentions doing swim, run, and bike. I need to add in a yoga or stretch don't I? Also what about weight training do I need that as well to more rounded out. I am also not as strong in the core and was thinking maybe I need to add that in as well. I have read to much training is not good. So I am trying to figure out how much should I do. I was looking at 5-6 days a week.

Nicole,

One of the things that almost everyone does when they start in this sport is to make things complicated. You obviously took the time to look over some of the plans here and have decided on the Couch to Sprint Program. Trust the program, they have been tested to ensure against injury, and preparation purposes. Do the program and don't try to put more into it at this time. For instance I looked at WK 1 of the program, which read as follows:

Monday - Run 10 min. (this is what it is, especially the first day, run when you can, walk when you need to, just get 10 minutes done) and Swim 12 min. or 400 yards (same thing here, just get it done however).

Tuesday - 20 min. Bike (same thing get it done) and 45 Min. Strength (here is your strength part, you can stretch, lift (usually best to do lighter weight with more reps), work on your core, yoga - get it in here)

Wed - 10 min. Run and 12 min. or 400 yard swim (same thing as on Monday).

Thursday 20 min. bike and 45 strength (same as Tuesday)

Friday 10 min. run and 12 min. or 400 yards swim (same as Monday and Wednesday)

Saturday - Rest Day (about the only thing other than nothing would be walk a little if sore)

Sunday - 30 min. bike ride (same thing get it done at whatever pace you need to ride for 30 minutes.

So I just gave you week 1 and that is what you need to do. The plan is there, use it and don't over think it. Now if you look at the first couple weeks and you are already physically well above that amount then look at the next plan up, but if not go with this. Distance, speed, and endurance will all come in good time, just follow the plan.

The other thing for you and everyone to remember, especially those that are new to working out, is that the biggest / toughest thing about all of this is getting into a routine of working out.

Question : How do I take my swimming to the next step being able to do 500 meters continously without my arms withering away?

A little more info : I do not have any swimming background, but got a former swimmer to teach me the basics of freestyle swimming three years ago. Since then I have attended a masters group approximately once a week where I've asked for and gotten alot of feedback and corrections. I'm now told that my technique is really starting to look good. We do all sorts of variations during the workout with kicks, just using arms, intervalls, 25-50-100-150 meters, hypoxy - you name it i've done it - but mostly with moderate+ to high intensity.

My issue is that when I get past 75-100 meters - despite that my rythm, my breathing and my technique is ok - i just loose power and slow down to a crawl (maybe wrong choice of words, but you get what I mean). I'm not overly exhausted on the breathing, but it's like my arms just does not have any more juice in them.

I'm now planning one more day of swimming a week.. What sort of program shoud I aim for? Longer distances, more strength training, even more intervalls? It should be noted, and this is not something I am proud of, I struggle to complete 10 pushups in a row.

First off, you are no different than the majority with this dilemma. We start off in this sport and know that we are not going to easily run a half marathon or bike 50 miles the first day, but we go to the pool and expect to be able to swim 1000 yards without stopping. I think part of this is because as kids we just remember being able to swim all day long (splashing around, diving, playing in the shallow end), but we were not swimming in the same manner as we are now. The simplest answer to your question is that you will only be able to swim long by swimming long. I can remember when swimming 100 yards (2 laps) about killed me both physically and cardio wise, but now even after a long break I can get in and do that with little to no effort. What I did was this, I would swim three times a week. 1 day I would set up sets to do and make sure of a total distance, ie 10 x 50 yards for a total of 500 yards) 1 day would be more about doing shorter distances with speed and mixing in a couple of sets with longer distance, ie. 10 x 25 with 2 x 250, and the 3rd day I would say that I was going to swim for X amount of time and go as long as I could each time I started. I would swim until I could go no more (arms burning, out of breath, lack of endurance) and then stop and catch my breath and recover until I was able to start again. I would then do the same, which was usually for a shorter distance then the last time. I continued to do that until one day I was at 30 minutes and realized that I had swam the duration without stopping. I know that a lot of people in my last group did the 0 to 1650 (1 mile) swim plan and really liked it and the progression. Don't get frustrated it will come with time and for some reason it usually comes all at once so to speak. I would maybe also work on upper body and arm exercises as well. Almost forgot, what you could do is just add the extra day and do the long swims like I was saying and continue to swim and do intervals with the masters group the other days. I would also tell the Swim Instructor in Masters that your goal at this time is X distance non stop and they can alter your workouts to help you accomplish that goal. hope is helps and if not please let me know.

NAME: Jennifer

STORY: I started running about 7 years ago, after a friend inspired me to try it. With the exception of one lazy, very unmotivated year, I've been running consistently since. Every race distance I did, I always wanted to challenge myself to go further. I did 5ks, 10ks, half marathons, and finally worked my way up to 2 marathons. I ran the Chicago Marathon in 2013 and 2014. Both were amazing, exhilarating experiences, but I'm done with marathons. I've suffered from patellar femoral syndrome, and my knee can't take the distances anymore. Pain stinks. But I still want to do something more, and something that won't cause me pain. So here I am, signing up for my first triathlon!. I'm very nervous though and obviously new to this, so I'm really happy I found this forum!

FAMILY STATUS: Married 15 years, with one 11 year old (going on 16!) daughter

CURRENT TRAINING: I'm currently following the Sprint - 2x balanced -20 week plan. Currently my swim endurance is suffering!

2014 RACES: A few 5k's & 10k's, and the Chicago Marathon

2015 RACES: The Esprit De She (Naperville), and regular running races TBD

WEIGHTLOSS: Where do I start? A few years after my daughter was born, I lost the weight I had gained with the pregnancy. I got down to 150...normal weight for my height and frame. But I went through the lazy stretch in my running regiment and I put on 15 lbs, which obviously bummed me out! So I started running again, and between that and a little unwanted stress in my life, I dropped a lot of weight. And now, 4 years later, I'm back to 165. Since the marathon, I haven't run as much, and have been enjoying food way too much! Anyways, I'm hoping that along with the triathlon training, I'll get into better shape, and hopefully lose sound unwanted pounds!

WHAT WILL MAKE ME A GOOD MENTEE: I'm really looking forward to support, advice, motivation, and am simply looking forward to a forum where I feel welcome in my newbie level!

I'm excited to be here!

Ok great thanks.
I just realized I told you the wrong plan. I am doing the Michael Pates Total Sprint Program. But I get the idea follow the program. Which I did and I also have a swim coach that has done triathlons to work with me every week. That starts next Monday.


I have another question. How much more carbs should I be eating? I eat pretty clean. I usually get carbs at breakfast, lunch, and dinner but I try to fit in veggies or protein and a fruit for a snack.

I want to make sure I am getting enough for my workouts.

Swimming has always been my weakest event. I try to start out with a nice slow pace, breathing every second stroke, but as I get more tired my breathing gets faster and in order to still take a breath only every second stroke my arm turnover rate increases. That increases my fatigue and makes me breathe even faster. Seems like a silly question but will this problem take care of itself as my endurance improves? Before I thought it was more of a training-my-body thing as I was used to breathing at whatever pace I wanted when running and biking and just not used to the breath discipline required for swimming. How can I help improve this?

Another question has to do with kicking technique for front crawl - I just can't seem to get it to work for me! When I was active before I took swimming lessons to improve my technique and I got some great tips overall but never managed to get the kicking thing right. I move my legs but it just doesn't seem to make much of a difference and it takes me forever to do a lap using a flutter board. I used to find it such a waste of energy that I would swim almost exclusively with my upper body. I know this is a tough ask without being able to see my technique, but do you have any suggestions for improving my technique?

Thanks!

I would like to join your group. I plan to compete in my first sprint in may 2015. I have no clue as to what I am doing!!!

As I mentioned before, I'm struggling with the swimming. Running and the biking are going great. I consider myself a good swimmer, however I can't get past 100 yards (freestyle) without getting exhausted cardiovascularly (arms are not tired at all). All other strokes I'm fine with and can continue to do no problem. My friend mentioned that maybe this is a breathing issue/inefficiency.

I take two strokes when my face is in the water, during which I breathe out, exhaling all the air, then I breathe in when I turn my face out of the water. But I feel like I'm breathing too heavy...not getting enough air when I have my face out of water. I've tried taking more strokes while having my head in the water but it only makes it worse. For comparison sake, I will occasionally do the freestyle and keep my head out of the water, facing forward, and I have an easier time. However it's not an efficient form at all. I'm certainly not swimming fast either. I thought that this would be the other way around for me ...that my arms would be tired, but cardiovascularly I'd feel fine. Exact opposite.

Long story short, could this be a breathing issue, or just that I need a TON of endurance training/work? Also, is it ok for me to do the freestyle until I get too tired, then break into other forms for a bit, then go back to a couple laps of freestyle when I'm ready again?

I hope I've not rambled too much. Thanks for any help!

Hi I am an absolute beginner. I decided to train for a triathlon last week and so far I am hooked on the idea. I am 42 years old, wife and mum of 3 wonderful kids, 7, 2 and 11 months. Although I have run a few times in the past, the training plan that I chose "couch to sprint" is very apt! I am signed up for the Kemah Sprint in April and Trigirls in May. Looking forward to the challenge, getting fit and loosing weight. Thanks for having the mentor program!

I am totally in the same boat as you on this one. I'm certainly not an expert, but I think it is completely valid to switch to a different type of stroke if you begin to feel tired. Then again, I am coming at this from the perspective that I am just looking to finish the race with a personal best and am not really competing with other people, so if I can keep going and not have to stop (especially for an open water swim!) by switching technique then that is what I am going to do. In the races I have been in I have never seen a rule stating only a certain stroke(s) can be used during the swim.

For training purposes I think doing what we can to build endurance is important. Again I'm no expert at swimming by any means, but I think there is something to be said for trying to get used to maintaining some forward motion no matter what stroke is required if we get tired. I believe there is a benefit psychologically to knowing we can still keep making forward progress and not have to stop if we get tired. Kind of like slowing to a quick walk if we get tired during a run instead of stopping completely. As our endurance builds hopefully this will become less of an issue!

Edited by S.M. 2015-01-27 11:26 AM

I swam as a child and in high school and was a lifeguard. I feel comfortable swimming but I am not a coach and I've never done an open water swim so please take my words of advice with a grain of salt. You might be in a better position in an ows while swimming with your head above water, facing forward. You will need to 'spot' in open water so you will need to swim differently in a race than in a nice flat pool with lane lines protecting you from the wake of another swimmer. Spotting is when you pick something on the horizon and occasionally look up to make sure you are swimming straight, toward your spot. It might be a red house across a lake, or a lone pine tree or something.

With regards to not being able to swim far without getting winded, this does sound like a breathing issue and you need to practice to breath slower. You can either do it on land- take a breath and count to 4, hold for 4 and then breath out for 4 counts. Do that a few times, then build your number up. In swimming we used to do drills to build up your breath, take two strokes, then breathe for 2 laps. Next work up to 3 strokes (this helps you also work on alternative side breathing) for 2 laps etc. then 4 strokes per breath, then 6 then 8 then 1 breath up, two breaths back, etc. this teaches you to breathe more balanced and will also help your with your running and biking.

I hope this helps., swimming is a small part of this race. Don't focus too much on the swimming. If you are a strong biker or runner you can compensate.

Thanks for your reply! It figures, I didn't see your post until AFTER I had submitted mine. So it sounded like I just repeated a portion of yours.
It sounds like I need to work on the breathing technique a bit. So between that and the ongoing training, I hope that things will get better. I just never thought the swimming part would be so hard! It's not like I remember when I was a kid. ; )

Thanks Colleen! I'll use your advice and give these breathing techniques a try.

Thanks, this seems like a good idea and a good place to start. I'll also check out the 0 to 1650 plan to get some inspiration. Better get this push-ups and chin-ups going to get some more upper body strength also. I´ve joined the "A Plank a Day" challenge in the forums just to get started on core as I find strength training a bit boring. Anyone interested is welcome there :-)

My experience learning to freestyle first as an adult has mostly been the importance of technique, technique, technique. I've got some people in the masters group that barely use energy while swimming in circles around me, and the only training they do or have done the last 10 years is single swimming practice a week, at best. I have trained 2-3 times a week for a couple of years with mostly running, but still there is no chance that I'll manage the same pace with the same amount of effort as they do.

Based on this I early concluded that getting as much input as possible on my form was the way to go. I've asked for much advice and tips, only focusing on one aspect at the time, and slowly my form has improved. I've still got a long way to go to compensate for the immense number of hours the former swimmers have put down in the pool when the where young, but things are looking much better now. I've also watched tons of Youtube videos, and after some time you get the feeling of the top five paths to go for improvement.

But if I should give one tip it would be to have a good swimming instructor look at your form and give advice. I have found that in swimming it's very difficult to evaluate your own form. Having people in that group to comment on what works and what doesn't has been very valuable. In my opinion having something to focus on while swimming - improving your form - also makes it more fun as there is always room for improvement.

My question: So, I've read that you believe the key to completing a triathlon is comfort with the bike portion. This is the part I'm most scared of. I'm wondering if I practice the endurance part in spin classes and on stationary bikes until approx. the end of March (when the streets and trails in Illinois are snow/ice free) will April and May be enough time to gain confidence to ride 13 miles in June? This is the only reason I haven't registered for the race yet. I'm so uncomfortable riding on the street and I wonder if 2 months is sufficient to acclimate (It's been 6 years since I rode regularly and that was commuting 12 miles a day in no particular hurry and mostly on sidewalks (shhh).)

Can I ask two questions? The second is...what would be a very "average"/middle of the pack lap time to shoot for for a sprint tri (half mile?) I think they DQ if you're not out of the water in 45 minutes (I think I read that?) and the race ends two hours after your start. Since I think the run will be my slowest leg, I need the swim to be my "fastest".

Also, Jennifer...I'm planning on the Naperville Tri too. It'll be good to know someone there :D

Thanks,

-Jen

Nicole, the best answer I can give you is what I do and bear in mind that I'm not the cleanest eater and am not a calorie counter (blest w/ a jacked metabolism). I will drink a protein shake after my long or extremely hard workouts, other than that if I feel I need something extra I just try to make it a health snack. The food thing for me is the same as the training thing, for now do what you do and then once all that comes together you can apply more towards the finite things that can take you to the next level.

Answer 1 - Yes, it will improve as endurance improves and you might find out that what works best for others does not work best for you.

Answer 2 - This one I can tell you that I know exactly what your talking about and you basically discribed me and my swimming to a T. I can not flutter kick and swim like others, my body just gets all out of whack and my kick is ineffective and kills my legs and hips. I had a master's swim coach try to work with me and I did a ton of drills and work with the kick board and everything under the sun before she told me to go back to my old way because it was my most effect swim. So now I swim the old way all the time, which is fast stroke turnover, scissor kick, and taking a breath basically every stroke. I am not fast by any means, but with what I have I swim under 2 minute 100s for the during of a 1.2 mile swim. At the Galveston Half Ironman this past year my swim time was in the top 3rd for all participants, so me not worrying about a podium I am just fine where I am. Don't give up though on doing it right especially if you're newer to it, my decision came 3 years into this sport.

Ashley, welcome to the Group. When you get a second tell the group a little about yourself.

You have gotten some sound advice and tips already so I'm just going to add a little bit. As you probably read a few posts up in another answer, I basically breath every other stroke. I was told I was breathing to much and that i would basically fatigue myself and get light headed and this and that and none of it happened. The breathing portion and a lot of what you speak of will come with time and distance training. You body and lungs have to get use the exertion and something new. The other thing that people do not think about is just how many muscles and used during the act of swimming. Muscles require blood and blood requires oxygen. Also there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing another stroke, you should strive to do the duration free style but that does not always work out (the reason freesytle is what you always hear and why some people get mad a butterfly swims and other strokes just has to do with the space a different stroke takes up and how it effects pack swimming) You should have a secondary stroke that you feel comfortable swimming even when exhausted or cramping or whatever problem may arise. For me it is kind of a reverse butterfly or backstoke. I know in his position I can fix my goggles, catch my breath, recover after someone accidently punching or kicking me in the face. The biggest thing right now is just to swim, it will come, just swim.

Answer 1 - I believe that two months, especially given the fact that you use to commute the total distance of your sprint ride on a regular bases, is plenty of time to get ready. What I will tell you about the prep you are speaking of is to make sure you do right at an hour and don't just go at a super easy pace with little to no resistance. Getting a trainer for your bike (doesn't have to be high dollar, I wore out the bearing in my first, which was an ascent that cost $30.00 new) would also help because while it makes your bike a stationary bike, you are actually sitting on your bike and shifting your gears, which will add to your comfort when you get out on the street. If and when you get a chance to get out on a safe, ice / snow free day beore Aprill make sure you take advantage of that, use it as a gauge of where you are.

Answer 2 - (this greatly depends on the race venue and course difficulty) Middle of the pace in my sprint races has been around the following for 400 yard swim, 12 mile ride, 3.1 run for reference) 2:30 per 100 for swim (total right at 10 min.), 16-19 MPH on bike (41.08 @ 17.5), and 9:30 - 10:00 per mile on run (30.13 @ 9:45 pace) so with tranistions and give or take here and there 1:25 - 1:30 for most off mine has been M.O.P.

Also when talking about total times and so forth, let me tell you and everyone about an APP called (TriCalc). You can put in paces, times, distance, what have you for swim, bike, and run and see what pace is required or how long it will take at a certain pace or distance. Example pertaining to your question that I checked with it (let's say your swim is 800 yards with a 45 minute cut off - it shows that you have up to 5 minutes and 37 seconds per 100 yards to complete it in time)