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brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! (Page 20)
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 2010-04-21 5:02 PM in reply to: #2808277 |
Expert  1179    Kansas City, Missouri |  Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now!Meulen - 2010-04-21 1:57 PM SAWFISH50 - 2010-04-21 3:39 PM Then your comparing Apple's to oranges.... They are beating you because ther overall conditioning is better than yours not because they spike there HR higher than you do. For example... If we take 2 top Pro Ironman winners. Chrisy Wellington & Sonja Botman. Do you think the only reason that Wellington can Beat Botman and all the other women is because she can push her HR higher?? Same With Lance Armstrong... It is actually quite the oppsite. They can sustain a higher level of out put for a longer period of time at a lowr HR than you can to produce the same output. So fact is your probably working just as hard or may be even harder than they are... I think we are misunderstanding each other. It's not about them being able to beat me. I expect that. I'm relatively new to this, and most of them have been racing MTB's for 10+ years. I don't expect to beat them. They are nice enough to push me while I'm with them so I get better. I'm concerned I'm mentally giving up before I physically am out of gas and basically cheating myself on my workouts. I'm concerned that is the case because: 1. I have pushed to with 14 bpm of my max hr on the bike once before so I know I can get there 2. Most people's max hr are about 10 bpm lower on the bike from the run and so far this year I've tried several times to push to that level only to get to 178 ( a couple times, my max is 201), but mostly I have trouble getting above 170 3. I may be cheating myself in my workouts by not working to full potential if I'm mentally giving up. 4. I may be setting a bad precident for myself, and consequently, may mentally give up in a race when it's down to the line im probably not versed well enough in these things to give you any closure on this, but it sounds to me like youre just overthinking this. No one is going to say you cheated yourself because cant get to a certain heartrate. do a TT, monitor your HR, give it a go again in a month or two and see if theres a difference. if your HR is lower, then youve improved. or forget max HR and go for some LT training like tim suggested earlier in the thread. |
| 2010-04-21 5:05 PM in reply to: #2808012 |
Expert 1179 Kansas City, Missouri | Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! dhopman - 2010-04-21 12:56 PM Okay I gave up on reading through all the previous discussion on the 6th page. =( What's in the training plan for everyone today? I'm taking the night off to rest my knee (I have patellofemoral maltracking) and cook dinner for my gf. Tomorrow I'm hitting the pool and doing a short run if my knee holds up. Dave, welcome to the group! Ran at lunch and some trainer time on the bike later for me today. Some splashy work tomorrow and maybe another ride on the trainer. |
| 2010-04-21 5:23 PM in reply to: #2808457 |
Extreme Veteran 565 Silicon Valley | Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! shmeeg - 2010-04-21 5:05 PM dhopman - 2010-04-21 12:56 PM Okay I gave up on reading through all the previous discussion on the 6th page. =( What's in the training plan for everyone today? I'm taking the night off to rest my knee (I have patellofemoral maltracking) and cook dinner for my gf. Tomorrow I'm hitting the pool and doing a short run if my knee holds up. Dave, welcome to the group! Ran at lunch and some trainer time on the bike later for me today. Some splashy work tomorrow and maybe another ride on the trainer. Way to go! I wish we had showers at work, I could sneak away for quick runs too. I've heard some people talk about using "wipes"...does anyone have experience with those? I just can't imagine it's as good as a shower. |
| 2010-04-21 5:41 PM in reply to: #2808277 |
Regular 454 | Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! Meulen - 2010-04-21 3:57 PM SAWFISH50 - 2010-04-21 3:39 PM Then your comparing Apple's to oranges.... They are beating you because ther overall conditioning is better than yours not because they spike there HR higher than you do. For example... If we take 2 top Pro Ironman winners. Chrisy Wellington & Sonja Botman. Do you think the only reason that Wellington can Beat Botman and all the other women is because she can push her HR higher?? Same With Lance Armstrong... It is actually quite the oppsite. They can sustain a higher level of out put for a longer period of time at a lowr HR than you can to produce the same output. So fact is your probably working just as hard or may be even harder than they are... I think we are misunderstanding each other. It's not about them being able to beat me. I expect that. I'm relatively new to this, and most of them have been racing MTB's for 10+ years. I don't expect to beat them. They are nice enough to push me while I'm with them so I get better. I'm concerned I'm mentally giving up before I physically am out of gas and basically cheating myself on my workouts. I'm concerned that is the case because: 1. I have pushed to with 14 bpm of my max hr on the bike once before so I know I can get there 2. Most people's max hr are about 10 bpm lower on the bike from the run and so far this year I've tried several times to push to that level only to get to 178 ( a couple times, my max is 201), but mostly I have trouble getting above 170 3. I may be cheating myself in my workouts by not working to full potential if I'm mentally giving up. 4. I may be setting a bad precident for myself, and consequently, may mentally give up in a race when it's down to the line Well the answer to that is if you don't throw up or your still able to cross the finishline without crawling across it you just didn't give it all you had. Now this might seem like the thing to do if your goal is to make sure you were dead nuts Balls to the wall the whole race or workout, But You wont last long without going into overtraing or injury if your trying to reach that level in all your workouts. Not saying you are but if your looking for a way to override your brains natural defence against limiting your output beyond a level that is perceved as safe then It's probably not gonna happen. If you want a book that goes Deep into this and how your Body and mind work during Hard core exercise read BRAIN TRAINING FOR RUNNERS by Matt Fitzgerald. It all applies to the bike as well as the run. http://www.amazon.com/Brain-Training-Runners-Revolutionary-andResults/dp/0451222326 |
| 2010-04-21 6:01 PM in reply to: #2808510 |
Expert 1179 Kansas City, Missouri | Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! SAWFISH50 - ... read BRAIN TRAINING FOR RUNNERS by Matt Fitzgerald. It all applies to the bike as well as the run. http://www.amazon.com/Brain-Training-Runners-Revolutionary-andResults/dp/0451222326 which reminds me, thats collecting dust in my nightstand... reading up on TI swimming rite now  |
| 2010-04-21 6:02 PM in reply to: #2808477 |
Expert 1179 Kansas City, Missouri | Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! dhopman - Way to go! I wish we had showers at work, I could sneak away for quick runs too. I've heard some people talk about using "wipes"...does anyone have experience with those? I just can't imagine it's as good as a shower. Only in the 'living in an environment for weeks w/o a shower' sense. never had to spongebath it for work. is there a gym nearby that has showers that you could use? |
| 2010-04-21 6:27 PM in reply to: #2808543 |
Extreme Veteran 565 Silicon Valley | Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! shmeeg - 2010-04-21 6:02 PM dhopman - Way to go! I wish we had showers at work, I could sneak away for quick runs too. I've heard some people talk about using "wipes"...does anyone have experience with those? I just can't imagine it's as good as a shower. Only in the 'living in an environment for weeks w/o a shower' sense. never had to spongebath it for work. is there a gym nearby that has showers that you could use? Not really...if I was really motivated I could use a shower at another building 5 blocks away, it would just be much more convenient if it was on-site. Right now, my bum knee is the biggest hurdle to get over. |
| 2010-04-21 6:40 PM in reply to: #2770949 |
Expert 1104 Canada | Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! Well another NO workout day for me  On a positive note, picked up my new Tri bike. Had a "LBS fitting" which is very general, nevertheless, I am ready to ride. Now I need to rain to STOP. Will probably run tomorrow. |
| 2010-04-21 6:49 PM in reply to: #2807995 |
Master 1887 Brentwood, CA | Subject: RE: Some Guidance Please.... 1. I thought that the reason we add speed work in our training is that it actually improves our lactate threshold. Maybe it doesn't need to go quite to max HR. However, elite athletes seem to have an uncanny ability to sprint to max hr and recover quickly. I have been told that they train this by doing hills and sprints. I got to train with Robbie Ventura this winter. He told me that, while most triathletes don't, he thought speed work and hills (strength training on the bike) once a week is highly beneficially to overall speed. In my opinion, you need to drop the concept of max HR. I don't know my max HR and I don't want to know. I know roughly where my LTHR reside and thats the number I care about. LTHR is mostly determined by genetics, but can be improved through a combination of steady-state riding, speedwork, and hill work. However, my point is that by riding below your LTHR, you develop base and gentle build. As you build, you will become faster at a slower HR. This takes years! Similar to running, there are speedwork and hill drills, but you don't take these on during every ride. These drills are intended for short duration and longer recovery before repeat. I challenge you to sprint anaerobically for more than 5-10 minutes. 2. You and I also race MTB's which I believe training above your lactate threashold is highly beneficial for tackling hill climbs and overtaking opponents trying to drop you. Yes! But these are "bursts." I'm not going to head into a 5-10 mile hill climb anaerobic. This is a recipe for disaster. I'm going to settle in a few beats under my LTHR for the long haul. Is you're opinion that I shouldn't be worrying about training this as much as I am? No. I think it is highly beneficial to know how to train via HR. But, in my opinion, you need to know your LTHR before any of the numbers make sense. If you have a bike trainer, get it out, and conduct the test I posted. Once you have the number, then you know your base. From here, you can monitor your training and assess progression. But be forewarned, it takes years of riding, running, or swimming to influence your LTHR, VT threshold, and VO2 max. Also, comparing your LTHR to anyone is meaningless. There are to many variables. I don't mean to confrontational LOL Don't even worry about that. This is a good conversation. This my my perspective and how I train, so take it for what it's worth. |
| 2010-04-21 6:52 PM in reply to: #2808186 |
Master 1887 Brentwood, CA | Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! SAWFISH50 - 2010-04-21 1:39 PM Then your comparing Apple's to oranges.... They are beating you because ther overall conditioning is better than yours not because they spike there HR higher than you do. For example... If we take 2 top Pro Ironman winners. Chrissie Wellington & Natascha Badmann. Do you think the only reason that Wellington can Beat Badmann and all the other women is because she can push her HR higher?? Same With Lance Armstrong... It is actually quite the oppsite. They can sustain a higher level of out put for a longer period of time at a lowr HR than you can to produce the same output. So fact is your probably working just as hard or may be even harder than they are... Very well put! This is what I'm trying to articulate. Increased conditioning will improve your output at a lower heartrate. |
| 2010-04-21 6:55 PM in reply to: #2806918 |
Expert 1104 Canada | Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! "Norcal and Brick (and everyone else who gave suggestions): Going to use the race belt, no cycling gloves, sunscreen prior to swim, Gu and hydrate while on the bike. Thanks for the suggestions. Will do. And I'm going to try and have FUN throughout the entire experience! I have to say it's kind of hard to imagine having fun since I'm already nervous as heck, but I will make a conscious effort to remember why I'm there, and that is indeed to have fun. Woohoo! Oh, and I've got dinner dates set with a couple of BTers. It's going to be a blast. Just being near the ocean, even if it is just the Gulf, is always fun for this landlocked girl. Plan on taking lots of pics! Leaving now for my trip down to Galveston. Good luck to everyone racing this weekend!" Have a great time...the advice you got were the main points I would have made. We expect a race report! Edited by GoGoGo 2010-04-21 7:25 PM |
| 2010-04-21 6:57 PM in reply to: #2770949 |
Master 1887 Brentwood, CA | Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! Pretty much a rest day for me. I did get a little upper body workout in though. I also tried jumping rope for 10 minutes this morning. Wow, I'm horrible. I can't believe how fatigued I got by doing an activity that is outside of my normal training. Over the next few weeks, I'm going to try and add some different activites to increase core stability and introduce lateral movements. |
| 2010-04-21 6:58 PM in reply to: #2808600 |
Master 1887 Brentwood, CA | Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! GoGoGo - 2010-04-21 4:40 PM Well another NO workout day for me On a positive note, picked up my new Tri bike. Had a "LBS fitting" which is very general, nevertheless, I am ready to ride. Now I need to rain to STOP. Will probably run tomorrow. You're not on vacation anymore! |
| 2010-04-21 7:08 PM in reply to: #2808607 |
Expert 1179 Kansas City, Missouri | Subject: RE: Some Guidance Please.... brick94513 - 2010-04-21 4:49 PM If you have a bike trainer, get it out, and conduct the test I posted. im gonna give this a shot tonight. seeing as how ive never really cycled, only monitored HR during spin class, do i just try to go balls out at what i think is a 30 min pace? is there a mpg or cadence range that might benefit me to stay in to make it the whole ride? i dont wanna blow up 1/2 way through :D |
| 2010-04-21 7:08 PM in reply to: #2806672 |
Expert 1104 Canada | Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! Meulen - 2010-04-21 11:13 AM shmeeg - 2010-04-21 9:06 AM what benefit does the p4 provide that the p3 doesnt? If that benefit isnt worth the wait, go w/ the p3. Upgrades from P3
Even better aerodynamics - Integrated brake, ICS2, dropped downtube, new seatstays, and integrated water bottle/storage unit (see below).
Feature-Benefit-Experience
The bike industry loves to talk about features (tube shapes, materials, etc). But a feature is useless without a benefit! Ask yourself, would you prefer a poorly engineered frame made of “Ultra High Modulus carbon” (a feature)? Or an intelligently engineered frame that uses the material to create something lighter, stiffer and stronger (real benefits)? Even more than benefits, you want experiences. The aforementioned lightness & stiffness may be benefits, but what you really want is the experience of higher performance, through quicker acceleration and better climbing.
To recap: I'm with Tim, I am not patient enough to wait. When choosing a Tri-Bike (or road bike), there are several thing to consider. Usually you can get an excellent bike for around $3000. The benefits increase rapidly from $1000-3000. From there, the benefits increase marginally. You save 150g (1/3 bottle of water!), etc. Race wheels are usually included, which is a cookie cutter approach. We all have different weights, windiness of city, etc. & it is nice to choose your wheel, if that is important to you Some other points to consider... P4 is an expensive bike...if you want nothing but the best, you may not want to budge. If your wallet says you to afford it, you could wait or consider another brand such as Felt, Cannondale, Specialized or Trek. The all have high end bikes. Look at the Shiv by Specialized, for example! Otherwise you could come down a little, eg P3 & as you said consider race wheels. Still very fast & light bike. You won't go wrong either way! I bet you could easily sell P3 next year if you needed to & roll it into a P4 JMHO |
| 2010-04-21 7:09 PM in reply to: #2808600 |
Expert 1179 Kansas City, Missouri | Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! GoGoGo - 2010-04-21 4:40 PM Well another NO workout day for me On a positive note, picked up my new Tri bike. Had a "LBS fitting" which is very general, nevertheless, I am ready to ride. Now I need to rain to STOP. Will probably run tomorrow. wheres the porn?? |
| 2010-04-21 7:20 PM in reply to: #2808277 |
Expert 1104 Canada | Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! Meulen - 2010-04-21 5:57 PM SAWFISH50 - 2010-04-21 3:39 PM Then your comparing Apple's to oranges.... They are beating you because ther overall conditioning is better than yours not because they spike there HR higher than you do. For example... If we take 2 top Pro Ironman winners. Chrisy Wellington & Sonja Botman. Do you think the only reason that Wellington can Beat Botman and all the other women is because she can push her HR higher?? Same With Lance Armstrong... It is actually quite the oppsite. They can sustain a higher level of out put for a longer period of time at a lowr HR than you can to produce the same output. So fact is your probably working just as hard or may be even harder than they are... I think we are misunderstanding each other. It's not about them being able to beat me. I expect that. I'm relatively new to this, and most of them have been racing MTB's for 10+ years. I don't expect to beat them. They are nice enough to push me while I'm with them so I get better. I'm concerned I'm mentally giving up before I physically am out of gas and basically cheating myself on my workouts. I'm concerned that is the case because: 1. I have pushed to with 14 bpm of my max hr on the bike once before so I know I can get there 2. Most people's max hr are about 10 bpm lower on the bike from the run and so far this year I've tried several times to push to that level only to get to 178 ( a couple times, my max is 201), but mostly I have trouble getting above 170 3. I may be cheating myself in my workouts by not working to full potential if I'm mentally giving up. 4. I may be setting a bad precident for myself, and consequently, may mentally give up in a race when it's down to the line I will admit to not knowing an answer to this. It is advanced exercise physiology. I think you should post a thread in general discussion with you question & get some other views from the coaches on the site.  |
| 2010-04-21 7:27 PM in reply to: #2808627 |
Expert 1104 Canada | Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! brick94513 - 2010-04-21 8:58 PM GoGoGo - 2010-04-21 4:40 PM Well another NO workout day for me On a positive note, picked up my new Tri bike. Had a "LBS fitting" which is very general, nevertheless, I am ready to ride. Now I need to rain to STOP. Will probably run tomorrow. You're not on vacation anymore! I know!!! I am slipping into slob-dom!!!! |
| 2010-04-21 7:28 PM in reply to: #2808634 |
Expert 1104 Canada | Subject: RE: Some Guidance Please.... shmeeg - 2010-04-21 9:08 PM brick94513 - 2010-04-21 4:49 PM If you have a bike trainer, get it out, and conduct the test I posted. im gonna give this a shot tonight. seeing as how ive never really cycled, only monitored HR during spin class, do i just try to go balls out at what i think is a 30 min pace? is there a mpg or cadence range that might benefit me to stay in to make it the whole ride? i dont wanna blow up 1/2 way through :D Ideal cadence is 90-120...Although Lance does 130ish or higher. I am a masher & have to work to get to 100ish.  |
| 2010-04-21 7:29 PM in reply to: #2808637 |
Expert 1104 Canada | Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! shmeeg - 2010-04-21 9:09 PM GoGoGo - 2010-04-21 4:40 PM Well another NO workout day for me On a positive note, picked up my new Tri bike. Had a "LBS fitting" which is very general, nevertheless, I am ready to ride. Now I need to rain to STOP. Will probably run tomorrow. wheres the porn?? Waiting for it to stop raining to take a pic outside. Not right to take a bike pic, in the house!!!! |
| 2010-04-21 7:41 PM in reply to: #2770949 |
Expert 1104 Canada | Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! Can one of you computer gurus add Dave (dhopman) to Tim's chart that many of us have in our logs???? |
| 2010-04-21 7:49 PM in reply to: #2808680 |
Expert 1179 Kansas City, Missouri | Subject: RE: Some Guidance Please.... GoGoGo - 2010-04-21 5:28 PM shmeeg - 2010-04-21 9:08 PM brick94513 - 2010-04-21 4:49 PM If you have a bike trainer, get it out, and conduct the test I posted. im gonna give this a shot tonight. seeing as how ive never really cycled, only monitored HR during spin class, do i just try to go balls out at what i think is a 30 min pace? is there a mpg or cadence range that might benefit me to stay in to make it the whole ride? i dont wanna blow up 1/2 way through :D Ideal cadence is 90-120...Although Lance does 130ish or higher. I am a masher & have to work to get to 100ish. ok, ill give that a shot. update the mentor group table w/ daves profile. cant seem to get it to post right. its in my training log if you wanna copy/paste from there. Edited by shmeeg 2010-04-21 7:53 PM |
| 2010-04-21 9:46 PM in reply to: #2770949 |
Extreme Veteran 793 Naperville, IL | Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! Guys, Appreciate the posts and info. Don't feel like I'm adding a whole lot as I'm only about a month in and just learning / building the basics. However, am learning a ton from the discussions and observing. Biggest help to me is knowing that you're checking up on me / providing feedback and guidance. Provides a bit of extra motivation to get to the gym and make sure the log is up to date on training/nutrition. On the negative side, all the talk of HRMs, MTBs, and other toys is likely to cause a drain on the wallet!!! |
| 2010-04-22 4:23 AM in reply to: #2808938 |
Expert 1104 Canada | Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! croixfan - 2010-04-21 11:46 PM Guys, Appreciate the posts and info. Don't feel like I'm adding a whole lot as I'm only about a month in and just learning / building the basics. However, am learning a ton from the discussions and observing. Biggest help to me is knowing that you're checking up on me / providing feedback and guidance. Provides a bit of extra motivation to get to the gym and make sure the log is up to date on training/nutrition. On the negative side, all the talk of HRMs, MTBs, and other toys is likely to cause a drain on the wallet!!! Tri can be as cheap, or expensive, as you like. There is certainly an abundance of toys, gadgets, etc. Glad you are getting some help from this stuff!!! |
| 2010-04-22 4:37 AM in reply to: #2770949 |
Expert 1104 Canada | Subject: RE: brick94513-GoGoGo Mentor Group - Closed For Now! QOTD: Looks like many of you are experienced, but if not, here goes... Do you use a quick lace system for your running shoes? If so, which? Lock Laces, YankZ? I think these are great. My running shoes always get these, right out of the box. Have a good day fellas & lady. |
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