BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE! (Page 20)

2011-05-25 6:23 AM

in reply to: #3516978

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

TRINA and JOE H -

You two okay? It's been an awful couple of days in your region, and what I heard last night is that tornadoes were very close to OKC. Yikes.

2011-05-25 6:31 AM

in reply to: #3516969

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

MANDY -

Nice workouts, and very glad the calf is returning to form. What exactly was the nature of the injury you had? You and Joe K and Jeff and I need to set up a secondary calf support group within the main group, I think!

I dipped my give-or-take thermometer in the Rideau River last week -- kept it submerged for nine minutes at about 24-30 inches down, and it came back up reading 59. My hand in the water, though, which was holding its tether, registered more like 56. I'm not sure which is more accurate.....but the chilly hand clearly suggests that a chily body would quickly follow suit were I to swim there. Well, that was last Friday, I think, so maybe now it's into the 60s. I'll test it again either today or tomorrow. My swim pass expires in three days, so I need the river to cooperate with me!

Where in eastern ME will you be? And the Red Sox! We haven't talked about the Red Sox, we seemed to have found their groove at long last. Whew??

2011-05-25 6:33 AM

in reply to: #3517356

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

JEFF -

Responses will be coming to you soon. I am home all morning, and plan to settle into that (and a race report....or two?) very soon. I have the thoughts in place, now just need time to peck 'em out on the machine!

2011-05-25 8:43 AM

in reply to: #3515508

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

DENISE -

Thanks, but the memory is very selective these days....and how and why it selected that bit of info to hold onto, i have no idea!

2011-05-25 8:49 AM

in reply to: #3512883

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

JEFF -

As with that other post I did to you about a month ago, I will break this one into parts. I guess the first part was about the swim times of this year versus last year, and I'll just do the rest randomly. The biggest part, which will be about "linear" training and racing (and the fact that they aren't!) will be last.

Onwards!

2011-05-25 9:15 AM

in reply to: #3517667

Expert

1191

Sarasota, FL

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Steve,

Looking forward to your dialogue.

Subject: Pushing on the bike and run setup. Earlier in the thread you mentioned that you had some thoughts about setting up the run after pushing on the bike (I'm paraphasing but it was something to like that). Maybe you have already covered this and I missed it. If that is the case let me know and I go searching back in the thread. If not, I would like to hear your thoughts on that subject as well.

2011-05-25 9:19 AM

in reply to: #3517667

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

JEFF (#1) -

I had problems with parts of my du run last Saturday being on wobbly grass, but that's nothing to how I would've felt having to do so much beach running as F.I.T. required of you. I agree with your anger, and there's no way i could've gotten my mind around that had I been there. While some people groove on beach running, they aren't those who have calf/Achilles/plantar fasciitis problems. They also might not be people who have ITB or hip problems....or those who just don't like waterlogged running shoes.

That anger probably contributed to some of what you felt when you mentioned not thinking clearly while under stress; it would've for me, anyhow. Fortunately, i have few big curve balls like that thrown at me, bjt I just know that when they happen, they can get right under my skin and as you say, the brain leaves the building.

So, I don't have any advice for you on this. I think it was good that you expressed your feelings to that person, just to get a sense that misery loves company.....but sadly for you, your misery didn't end there. I don't think you were the only person who left that race hurting, as the beach run would've exacted a nice toll on a number of people. There's more company for that higher level of misery, although i doubt it makes you feel even an iota better.

My main experience with race stress comes towards the end of most race seasons when I get tired on putting on my "race face". This involves the fianl push to USAT ranking spoints, plus the fact that I have spent the season to that point checking out the competetion pre-race, and then gunning for it during the race. It gets tiring, but more than that I wind myself tighter than I need to. I cannot say that I race happy at all, but I don't think it affects my HR or my ability to think (mostly) clearly.

In a sense, what I do is sacrifice the former for the latter. That is, I further sacrifice happiness in order to keep my focus (i.e., clear thinking) tighter, through competing harder. I rarely let up on the bike and run of a race, and just narrow, or tighten, my focus. the "break" I give myself on the run is to be chatty, or at least encouraging, to other runners, and I'm really good at thanking volunteers. It's hard to explain. On the one hand I am focused, and pushing, and not especially having much fun at it, and on the other hand I am taking stabs at being "human" and extending myself to those around me. It's kind of Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde, maybe.

Another thing that grounds me some, although it is anal in its own way, is to count cadence. That certainly serves to keep my mechanics where I want them, but also works to take me a bit further out of myself so that my brain doesn't start to cannibalize itself. I mention this partly because of your comment about hurrying to get to the next buoy during the swim, and that I think focusing on mechanics CAN help racers get grounded.

That said, the problem I have with swim mechanics during a race is that it usually ends up being more leisurely than I want it to be. that is, I tend to revert to Toatl immersion style swimming, which through my filter becomes long and leisurely and with maybe too many dead spots. The alternative to this is often is to get caught up in some thrash-fest, and in hos ecases my stroke will more often than not fall apart and be a problem that way.

I'll post this and move on.

2011-05-25 9:35 AM

in reply to: #3517761

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

JEFF (#2) -

My monkey brain has betrayed me. I printed off your long post and made notes on it....and whikle that made sense to me 2 or 3 days ago, it's lost to me now. To wit, at the end of you section on mental fortitude I wrote "aqbk?" and "just to segregate", and it's not 100% clear to me what I was getting at. Hmmm.

It might be the thought that doing an aquabike could help you just by removing one step (the run) from the race process. It would segregate the swim and bike quite nicely, and two things could come from it: (1) better focus on swim mechanics during a race-type swim with lots of competitors around you, and (2) to experience what it really feels like to ride a bike HARD in a race -- without having to worry about running off the bike after.

Another thought for you might be that in a "throwaway" race you wouldn't get stressed, and that might open some pathways you could then access for thinking more clearly in races that actually matter to you. Just a thought!

I'm sure I said this before, but my season of doing aquabikes taught me how to ride a bike hard. Not only did I not have to worry about running off the bike, but I also did those events "angry" -- not that you really want to go there yourself! It worked for me, though, and was so much more efgfective than trying to push myslef against myself in my training.. Having a whole field of cyclists to ride hard against made all the difference.

Another way to approach this without chasing down a race that provides an actual aquabike race category is to find the lowest-cost races near you and just bag it after the bike. Ironpeople have done this for years a week or two out from their iron -- that is, enter a half-iron and od the swim and bike, but bail on the run so they don't waste their legs. they get to work on or refine their swim and bike skills over longer distances -- in a way, it's segregating those disciplines on that "throwaway" day. Again, just a thought!

2011-05-25 9:54 AM

in reply to: #3517761

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

JEFF (#3) -

A couple of smaller ones here, for now.

You say that arriving later than you wanted is "totally avoidable"....and I have to agree with tnat 100%!

Of course, thsat's coming from yours truly, whose only truly solid organizational skill is punctuality. I am always early to anything, and my ability to wake up whenever and be quite functional in a hurry further helps me get to races a few minutes before transition opens. So, I grab a great parking space, and if racks are not assigned or only partially assigned, i grab me a good one there, too. I get my body-marking and chip-finding before trhe lines get long, and speaking of lines I can begin my pilgrimages to the port-a-lets before it becomes an ordeal. Then my only problem is to keep myself amsued for the next couple of hours, but I will either yak with rackmates, or fgo back to the car to snooze. I cannot tell you, literally, how many races i have made it to as the first competitor on site. It's probably close to 20, and that number apporaches 50 or 60 races if I allow myself to be within the top ten to show up.

Seeing as how you (and me, too) will never be a FOP swimmer, sighting does become key. Getting out of the fray helps, as does just choosing a position, or line, that allows the best vanatge point for sighting -- especially on days that drifting happens. i spend some small amount of time in the pool sighting stright forward, with the work for that involving learning to lift my head straight up without allowing the hips and legs to sink, AND while not interrupting or distorting the stroke. I'm pretty good at it....but not so god as tho totally avoid drifting!

Finally, for this post, I'll just reinforce what you probably know yourself -- that in prep fro Gulf swims you will need to add swims with a current to your regimen of OWS sessions. I guess if you are there in proximity to the ocean, that is easy to do, yes?

The other aspect to that is knowing how to read the current on race day, and how to adjsut accordingly. I wouldn't have much confidence in that, and the times I have done a swim in a current i was not too strategic about it; that is, I got carried more with the current than I wanted to. A recent issue of Triathlete mag had a piece on the Alcatraz swim, with a drawing showing the angles to swim at and the things to sight on to make it work. that isn't the Gulf, too be sure, but maybe some of their thoughts of current-swimming might help you.

Goota go now, but I'll continue these later!

jrhesq

2011-05-25 5:49 PM

in reply to: #3517344

New user

Swansea, IL

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

everyone still standing around here although more tornadoes in st. louis as I type. when it hits this close to home, it really makes one appreciate the little things in life.

was able to ride yesterday early a.m. and run today at lunch. expecting new ride to be ready any day now and am anxious to get it out on the road. next event is a 5K on 6/4 (originally intended to do a biathlon that day (5/22) but run buddies opted for the shorter run instead). haven't been in the pool all week but maybe tomorrow morning.

2011-05-25 7:50 PM

in reply to: #3517761

Expert

1191

Sarasota, FL

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Steve,

As always great insight with nice tidbits of information that I'll have to try out. Nice to know that even someone like you can have an occasional "thrash-fest" during the swim.

stevebradley - 2011-05-25 10:19 AM JEFF (#1) - I had problems with parts of my du run last Saturday being on wobbly grass, but that's nothing to how I would've felt having to do so much beach running as F.I.T. required of you. I agree with your anger, and there's no way i could've gotten my mind around that had I been there. While some people groove on beach running, they aren't those who have calf/Achilles/plantar fasciitis problems. They also might not be people who have ITB or hip problems....or those who just don't like waterlogged running shoes. That anger probably contributed to some of what you felt when you mentioned not thinking clearly while under stress; it would've for me, anyhow. Fortunately, i have few big curve balls like that thrown at me, bjt I just know that when they happen, they can get right under my skin and as you say, the brain leaves the building. So, I don't have any advice for you on this. I think it was good that you expressed your feelings to that person, just to get a sense that misery loves company.....but sadly for you, your misery didn't end there. I don't think you were the only person who left that race hurting, as the beach run would've exacted a nice toll on a number of people. There's more company for that higher level of misery, although i doubt it makes you feel even an iota better. My main experience with race stress comes towards the end of most race seasons when I get tired on putting on my "race face". This involves the fianl push to USAT ranking spoints, plus the fact that I have spent the season to that point checking out the competetion pre-race, and then gunning for it during the race. It gets tiring, but more than that I wind myself tighter than I need to. I cannot say that I race happy at all, but I don't think it affects my HR or my ability to think (mostly) clearly. In a sense, what I do is sacrifice the former for the latter. That is, I further sacrifice happiness in order to keep my focus (i.e., clear thinking) tighter, through competing harder. I rarely let up on the bike and run of a race, and just narrow, or tighten, my focus. the "break" I give myself on the run is to be chatty, or at least encouraging, to other runners, and I'm really good at thanking volunteers. It's hard to explain. On the one hand I am focused, and pushing, and not especially having much fun at it, and on the other hand I am taking stabs at being "human" and extending myself to those around me. It's kind of Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde, maybe. Another thing that grounds me some, although it is anal in its own way, is to count cadence. That certainly serves to keep my mechanics where I want them, but also works to take me a bit further out of myself so that my brain doesn't start to cannibalize itself. I mention this partly because of your comment about hurrying to get to the next buoy during the swim, and that I think focusing on mechanics CAN help racers get grounded. That said, the problem I have with swim mechanics during a race is that it usually ends up being more leisurely than I want it to be. that is, I tend to revert to Toatl immersion style swimming, which through my filter becomes long and leisurely and with maybe too many dead spots. The alternative to this is often is to get caught up in some thrash-fest, and in hos ecases my stroke will more often than not fall apart and be a problem that way. I'll post this and move on.

2011-05-25 8:00 PM

in reply to: #3517801

Expert

1191

Sarasota, FL

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

I hear ya Steve on the Aquabike and they are good thoughts. I like the idea of really laying it all out on the line during the bike. Just to see what I'm capable of doing.

Regarding anger, I once read somewhere.... "when all else fails, then try anger".

stevebradley - 2011-05-25 10:35 AM JEFF (#2) - My monkey brain has betrayed me. I printed off your long post and made notes on it....and whikle that made sense to me 2 or 3 days ago, it's lost to me now. To wit, at the end of you section on mental fortitude I wrote "aqbk?" and "just to segregate", and it's not 100% clear to me what I was getting at. Hmmm. It might be the thought that doing an aquabike could help you just by removing one step (the run) from the race process. It would segregate the swim and bike quite nicely, and two things could come from it: (1) better focus on swim mechanics during a race-type swim with lots of competitors around you, and (2) to experience what it really feels like to ride a bike HARD in a race -- without having to worry about running off the bike after. Another thought for you might be that in a "throwaway" race you wouldn't get stressed, and that might open some pathways you could then access for thinking more clearly in races that actually matter to you. Just a thought! I'm sure I said this before, but my season of doing aquabikes taught me how to ride a bike hard. Not only did I not have to worry about running off the bike, but I also did those events "angry" -- not that you really want to go there yourself! It worked for me, though, and was so much more efgfective than trying to push myslef against myself in my training.. Having a whole field of cyclists to ride hard against made all the difference. Another way to approach this without chasing down a race that provides an actual aquabike race category is to find the lowest-cost races near you and just bag it after the bike. Ironpeople have done this for years a week or two out from their iron -- that is, enter a half-iron and od the swim and bike, but bail on the run so they don't waste their legs. they get to work on or refine their swim and bike skills over longer distances -- in a way, it's segregating those disciplines on that "throwaway" day. Again, just a thought!

2011-05-25 8:17 PM

in reply to: #3517856

Expert

1191

Sarasota, FL

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Sighting practice. Something that I never do and I need to do.

As I mentioned earlier my swim fitness entering the race wasn't at its best. My bike and run fitness were going so well (relative to myself) that I figured I could fake my way thru the swim and still have a great day. So building into the race I didn't work as hard in the pool as I should have. It won't happen again.

Isn't it funny how we can have a great resource and never use it!! I live 7 miles from one of the most beautiful beaches (Siesta Key) in the country where I can swim without a wetsuit for 7 months a year. I have done about 5 OWS (2 of them races) in the last year. Go figure!!

stevebradley - 2011-05-25 10:54 AM JEFF (#3) - A couple of smaller ones here, for now. You say that arriving later than you wanted is "totally avoidable"....and I have to agree with tnat 100%!

Of course, thsat's coming from yours truly, whose only truly solid organizational skill is punctuality. I am always early to anything, and my ability to wake up whenever and be quite functional in a hurry further helps me get to races a few minutes before transition opens. So, I grab a great parking space, and if racks are not assigned or only partially assigned, i grab me a good one there, too. I get my body-marking and chip-finding before trhe lines get long, and speaking of lines I can begin my pilgrimages to the port-a-lets before it becomes an ordeal. Then my only problem is to keep myself amsued for the next couple of hours, but I will either yak with rackmates, or fgo back to the car to snooze. I cannot tell you, literally, how many races i have made it to as the first competitor on site. It's probably close to 20, and that number apporaches 50 or 60 races if I allow myself to be within the top ten to show up. Seeing as how you (and me, too) will never be a FOP swimmer, sighting does become key. Getting out of the fray helps, as does just choosing a position, or line, that allows the best vanatge point for sighting -- especially on days that drifting happens. i spend some small amount of time in the pool sighting stright forward, with the work for that involving learning to lift my head straight up without allowing the hips and legs to sink, AND while not interrupting or distorting the stroke. I'm pretty good at it....but not so god as tho totally avoid drifting!

Finally, for this post, I'll just reinforce what you probably know yourself -- that in prep fro Gulf swims you will need to add swims with a current to your regimen of OWS sessions. I guess if you are there in proximity to the ocean, that is easy to do, yes? The other aspect to that is knowing how to read the current on race day, and how to adjsut accordingly. I wouldn't have much confidence in that, and the times I have done a swim in a current i was not too strategic about it; that is, I got carried more with the current than I wanted to. A recent issue of Triathlete mag had a piece on the Alcatraz swim, with a drawing showing the angles to swim at and the things to sight on to make it work. that isn't the Gulf, too be sure, but maybe some of their thoughts of current-swimming might help you. Goota go now, but I'll continue these later!

2011-05-25 8:20 PM

in reply to: #3518953

Expert

1191

Sarasota, FL

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Bet ya can't wait for the new wheels!!

Good to hear that you made it thru the storms without troubles.

jrhesq - 2011-05-25 6:49 PM

everyone still standing around here although more tornadoes in st. louis as I type. when it hits this close to home, it really makes one appreciate the little things in life.

JoeK

2011-05-25 9:26 PM

in reply to: #3435045

Regular

108

Crystal Coast

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Steve,

Quick follow up on your earlier post on nutrition and having Whey just prior to bedtime......Actually "back in the day" my schooling had me taking a slow digesting (complex) carb right before bed (whey was pre and post workout and used to ensure daily protein intake at 1 to 1.5 grams / target body weight along with getting the amino acids). Thought process was that night was the longest period your body goes without adding nutrition and is also the time it is doing the most repair, hence you want something that will last in your system as long as possible. I was a fan of cottage cheese which is about a 50/50 split between carbs and protein. Some place in the scattered brain cells their is the thought of also minimizing the insulin spike running around..... but I am by no means a nutrition expert.

kickitinok

2011-05-25 9:51 PM

in reply to: #3435045

Expert

801

Oklahoma City

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Denise - Congrats!

Steve - Yes, I'm still here. Was pretty hairy there for a bit, but we have a tornado cellar so there's a safe place to retreat to if we see a tornado heading straight for us. Tornado sirens sounded for three hours straight. Ugh, what a night.

I'm heading down to Austin, TX. No tornados in the forecast, but 90+ degree weather is. Ugh again.

cornchexs

2011-05-26 8:32 AM

in reply to: #3519245

Expert

1149

CenTex

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

kickitinok - 2011-05-25 9:51 PM

Denise - Congrats!

I'm heading down to Austin, TX. No tornados in the forecast, but 90+ degree weather is. Ugh again.

It will be hot but the humidity is decreasing, which is the key. This past week we have had 70-85% RH daily and training has been nasty. It will be hot but it will be dry.

LadyNorth

2011-05-26 3:45 PM

in reply to: #3435045

Extreme Veteran

996

Minnesota

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

I'm in heaven - 59 and sunny - no bugs yet.

Steve, I'll send you this weather.

Denise

Of course, that means after running 11 miles and swimming 1 mile, I have to do yard work.

My husband does not like anything that involves physical labor. But - he is a computer expert. If there's anything wrong with my computer, I just say "Honey, fix this" and he does. That's invaluable.

manfarr1974

2011-05-26 4:24 PM

in reply to: #3519245

Expert

701

Caratunk, Maine

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Trina,

So glad you are safe. So scary.

Mandy

2011-05-26 10:23 PM

in reply to: #3520712

Champion

10618

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

DENISE -

GREAT swim and run! You're easily well ahead of pace for Racine!

Yup, need some of that weather. Actually, this weekend should be fine,e specially Sunday. And I did a temp check on my closest swimmin' hole, and it was 68 -- up from 59 six days ago. My thermometer might run a degree or two warmer than reality, but at least it's close enough to warrant a swim. Which is good, beacuse my pool pass expires on Saturday!

sanl

2011-05-27 7:58 AM

in reply to: #3516969

Member

winnipeg, MB

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Hi everyone,

I'm still here. A little bit frustrated. My job ends on Tuesday, and the last two weeks have been impressively busy working some days 10-12 hours. I haven't have the time that I planned to train but I still managed to do some. Starting June 1st. I'll be unemployed (bad) which means I'll have plenty of time to train (very good).

On Sunday was the first time that I tried the 3 sports. I went for a run earlier in the morning, right after I swam 1km, and later I went for a long bike ride (50k). It was good.

This Sunday, will be my first triathlon, even though I'm not prepared as I would like to, I think I'll be ok.

The last time (Tuesday) I was able to run 2.5 k, still slow and my ankle didn't bother me too much.

I did not have time to practice any transitions, but I'm trying to mentally organize what I'm going to do. I'm not worry about that. My concern is the running part. Well, I know I can always walk.

Have to go to work now. My last 12 hours long day!!!

I'll be around tomorrow.

Sandra

LadyNorth

2011-05-27 12:31 PM

in reply to: #3435045

Extreme Veteran

996

Minnesota

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Sandra,

Good luck Sunday! For your 1st triathlon, you don't need to worry about how well you do. Just have fun and finish. I'm sure you'll just love it.

Denise

Sorry about your job

LadyNorth

2011-05-27 12:34 PM

in reply to: #3435045

Extreme Veteran

996

Minnesota

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Trina,

Good luck with your 1st Olympic Sunday. I can't wait to hear how it goes, the good and the bad, but I assume mostly good. (I'll be in Madison,WI, on Sunday cheering our daughter in her 1st marathon - I don't know how she trained for this during finals)

And have a blast at your music festival.

Denise

cornchexs

2011-05-27 2:44 PM

in reply to: #3522071

Expert

1149

CenTex

Subject: RE: BigSkiesMentorGroup - COMPLETE!

Hope everyone has a great, safe holiday! Good luck to everyone that's racing!

Trina, good luck in your 1st Oly. Hope you like CapTex. I'll post my bib # up on Sunday, after packet pickup. Maybe we can meet race morning before the gun. I'm in M 45-49.