GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 209)

STEVE -

I will dig out my '04 log and see how I managed by post-IMLP recovery. I had Timberman HIM four weeks after IMLP, so that was out there and demanded some attention --- but as I remember I took my time getting to it. I definitely spent more time in the two weeks after IMLP attending Chamberfest performances than executing some decent training sessions!

And yet, i ended up with a prety good time (5:29? 5:31?) at Timberman, even though I just felt sluggish. Maybe I had convinced myself that there was no "pop" in my legs for either the bike or the run....or maybe I had that handy as an excuse if I didn't perform well. But it's true that my training for T-man was slack, going into more through riding on the IM coattails than via serious and successful and specific training for Timberman.

I wouldn't categorically dismiss any early- or mid-season IM, but for my money I much prefer that effort to come at the end of the season. IMLP was on about July 25, and The Canadian was on about Sept. 2. I followed LP with four races, none of which turned out to be 100% efforts. After The Canadian.....nothing. And that was by choice; it was just a good time to turn off the season.

So something like B2B or Silver is ideal ---- aside from the fact that I have to brave training in increasingly frigid temps. In a way, Chesapeakeman (last week of September) is ideal, as I could do that AND have a race (or two?) in September and feel that I had a nice, full season, with an iron on the end that I didn't have to freeze my gazatkin off to train for.

ANYHOW, two early training session sounds good, and I hope you can indeed make it the trifecta tomorrow! I can get on rolls with training and never want them to stop, but the toughest one for me is the first day back after a day off. It's amazing how much my momentum can decrease in just one short day!

And let me know how the run today goes/went, okay?

ANNE -

Ah! The thot plickens!!

Here's what I can tell you about the course. In '02 I did Great Keewaydin, which is no more. At the time it was a oly/HIM hybrid, and follwed much of the Lake Dunmore Traithlon course. That is, it was three loops of the LDT bike course (LDT is two loops), plus a longer run and swim. But as you are focused on the bike, i will tell you that it was all very reasonable EXCEPT for the half-mile climb that begins shortly after the turn from Route 7 onto Route 53.

To follow this, you have to look at the map for the Lake Dunmore race, and what you'll see is that it is two clockwise loops. So, that hill is encountered twice on the oly race (LTD), was there three times for Great Keewaydin.....but because Half Vermont Journey does NOT follow a strict clockwise loop, that climb is there just once, at about mile 52. The best way to see what this looks like is to use the profile in the Course Description scetion, the one that's in blue. But even there it loops steep, whereas it is more of a plodplodplod climb -- just a moderately long incline, a deceptively mean-sprited thing.

Other than that, the course is just rollers, and I don't remember any of them as being tough. Now, Great Keewaydin went neither north of the junction of 7 and 53 nor south of 7 and Fern Lake Road, but looking at the porfile those two parts just seem more of the same -- rollers.

These are sweetly low-key events, and have a very loyal following. for years they were run by Vermont Sun, a fitness club in middlebury, and then a few years ago they were taken over by a separate entity, Rushton Sports. You won't get bells and whistles here, but I think you can expect accurate measurements, good on-course support, and what sounds like a nice pre-race meal.

Other than the race, Vermont is kind of manna from heaven -- especially the western side of it. This is where the more serious mountains are, and amny people view Mount Mansfield, NE of Burlington, as a real goal to summit. Burlington, as I said earlier, is a true treat. Get downtown, park, and wander along the pedestrian malls, which are full of great eateries. South of Burligton is Shelburne, and if you like museums there are a terrific bunch of exhibitions that are running at the same time up through October at the Shelburne Museum. Go to www,shelburnemuseum.org, and click on Current Exhibitions. Shelburne itself is very nice, having done a great job of architectural preservation AND providing lots of more modern amenities (lts of hoity-toity tourist options....for better or for worse).

There are three ferreis that connect VT and NY and the two bookend ones are real gems. These are the ones that have their VT terminals at Charlotte (south) and South Hero Island (north). The ferries are small and quick (~20 minutes for the crossing), and are throwbacks almost. The middle ferry gets you right into Burlington, but is bigger, longer, and more expensive. As you travel either from Kingston to VT or from VT to the Finger Lakes, it is reasonable to go through Lake Placid --- wher you could ride a loop of the IMLP course!

If at thre Finger Lakes, ride some part of the Musselman course east and southeast of Geneva. While there two weeks ago we stopped at one of the manymanymanymany wineries in the area, and Lynn enjoyed doing a wine-tasting. I think she got eight samplings for $2.50, which she thought was a bargain.

Am I tweaking your fancy at all? If not let me know -- I can on like this for a while!

Finally, Lynn is a very avid canoer and feels that September is ideal for trips -- no bugs! But if you wanted to sample New England waters during a proposed trip to VT and NY (even though NY is not truly New England -- right MANDY and TRACEY??), I'm sure you could find lots of waters in which to rent canoes or kayaks and jhave a ball. lynn has done a trip or two around the Adirondacks, and I can ask her where exactly she went.

Hiking around Lake Placid is supposed to be wonderful, and somewhere I have a guidebook on hiking the High Peaks area. I will look for that, and if I can find it I would send it to you if it would help with your planning.

And then there is the thought of moving the Anne and Ken show just a bit further east, and hitting the Land of SteveMandyTracey.....


(See? I can go on like this for a while!)

ANNE again -

Did I win? Huh? Huh? Did I beat you to it?

I just registered for HVM -- even though my S-I joint is bothering me these days. (or at least on two of my last three rides.) Oh, well, now with the commitment to it I have further incentive to seek out the wonders of my A.R.T. person, if necessary. (Hopefully, this too shall pass!)

YES, you did, but not by much!   We are having supper, then getting the calendar out to do some planning.  Your previous post was perfect timing.   I am printing it off now.   I hope to be registered before bed.     

I have actually been to Placid and Burlington and Shelburne about 23 years ago, long before I was interested in triathlons.   Mostly looking at things through the car windows.  I remember LOVING a tour through some cheese place in Shelburne.   I LOVE really good, old cheddar!   I've already started scheming about Placid.    Back in a bit.

SteveB:

Thanks, this is all very helpful and makes a lot of sense. I like the idea of spending part of my swim time practicing drills, because to be quite honest I have neglected them. I predict my swim time to be around 13-15 minutes at Timberman (probably not much faster than how I performed at Escape, and maybe a bit slower due to the bigger wave and turns and what not...) So about 25 minutes of laps plus the rest of the time on drills sounds good.

And I do have the flexibility on the 4th/6th and 11th/12th, so those changes are doable. And I agree it will be good to get those hour-plus rides in before the race. As for hills, there really aren't any big ones around here. I think the closest I'll come to it are the rollers they have over at Myles Standish. It's easy for me to head over there for a few rides since it's just a few miles from here.

Thanks for the input!

Tracey

Hi,

Anne and Tracey,
I'll be gone for a few days helping my Mom look at senior housing options so I'll wish you luck early.

Good luck Anne and Tracey!

Denise

Thanks Denise.    I'm looking forward to it.   Won't be a fast one, but I know it will be a fun one.  

Good luck with the search.  Is this a decision your Mom has made and is looking forward to or something that needs to be done?  Hopefully, the former.  

You had me convinced, until you started talking about the cold water!   Have done one race in 50 degree water and that was enough for me.   Both Ken and I just don't do well in the cold anymore.   However, I am still keen on that Pirate tri, so maybe we will see you then.        

Decided to do the VT Half Journey instead at the end of August and turning it into a 10 day vacation.  

ANNE -

Cool beans! It's a date! (Now I/we have to figure out where to stay.....but this will be one where I'm NOT tenting the night before!)

Pirate is a blast, and I really want to try it fresh; that is, no race the day before. So, barring something weird or awful happening, it's already on my list for next year!

TRACEY -

Hey! I think you're right about Myles Standish and hills! I was a bit too flustered to fully appreciate that, but now that I think back to it there were a few half-decent climbs. I wish I could tell you where exactly they were....but I'm still not sure exactly where I was!

Your turf is much like mine, where "half-decent" hills are the best I can find without driving 45-60 minutes one way. And when that's the lay of the land (as it were), all you can do is make the best of the situation.

My T-man swim last year was 10:12, so 13-15 is a comfy target for you, and maybe even 12 is more reasonable. So, if pressed for time you can make do with sets of 20-minute continuous swims, and that will still be over half again as much (did I say that right?) as you need come race day.

Again -- you'll love that swim, it's a real sweet one. For left-side breathers there's the magnificent view of the White Mountains; for right-side breathers, it's a constant reminder of how close the shore is. Win-win!

DENISE -

Best of luck on that one, and I echo loudly Anne's question and subsequent wish for you and your mom and the situation. I'll be thinking of you as you go through this process.

Sounds good.   I know Ken will want to get that done asap.   We are going to leave here on Friday morning and if possible tent the Friday night; hotel the Saturday night.   Want to be able to explore on Saturday and get to know the bike route and spend time with you, hopefully.     

Have updated our plans for the rest of the summer - going to canoe in Algonquin from July 30th-Aug. 7th?; then Orillia aqua/bike on the 27th; Vermont on the 29th and Wasaga on Sept 11th.    We won't get home till Sept 4th, but plan to do alot of cycling on this trip.   Thinking I can use the 30th as recovery to sightsee around Shelburne, Burlington area. 

I am so glad you suggested this.   Seems to be just what I needed to get me really enthused about something.  It just feels right.  

Hey GrooveTimers,

Trying to catch up here & at work after 2 weeks off. I'm ready for another vacation!! So I'm planning a long weekend to Milwaukee in a few weeks.

Quick question though. Has anyone washed their running shoes in the washing machine then continued to run in them? Any detrimental side effects? My plan was to wash on cold and then air dry or dry on low heat. Planning on taking this as my walking shoes in Milwaukee and would like to get rid of some of the funk.

SHAUN -

Welcome back here, and I'm so pleased to see that you have your priorities straight -- "Trying to catch up here and at work". We amy not be as finally rewarding as work, but in terms of karma and joi d'vivre, we can't be beat!

It's beeen years soince I machine-washed a pair of running shoes, and I think the only time I did that was when they had already been relegated to walking duties. If you are going to do this, then remove the sockliners first, and maybe even do it on a gentle cycle. I think I've read both sides of this --- NEVER machine wash them, and sure, why not, given the punding they take in all sorts of conditions. To the latter I would say there is some truth, maybe lots of it, because I've done scores of runs in pouring rain.....and if they can survive that then they can survive 20 minutes in a washing machine. Right? Maybe?

Milwaukee is a nice place. I di it with the kids about 1990, and we included a couple of museums - natural history and an art one. The Brewers weren't in town when we were there, which was unfortunate, so we caught a White Sox game on the way up, and then meandered over to Madison and saw the Madison Muskies play; I think that was single-A ball.

My father's slightly-prefered baseball team, the Boston Braves, moved to Milwaukee in '53, so I've always had a small attachment to the city for that reason. Plus, the big sports arena is the Bradley Center (Is it "center", or something else?), although it is unfortunate that none of the money is connected to any aspect of our line of the Bradley name.

Okay! Get back to work, you!

ANNE -

The only thing I sense now is that I will leave here Saturday morning and get into the general vicinity in the early afternoon; it is about 4-4.5 hours from here, depending on how slow the traffic is on Route 7! But I also might leave on Friday and do a leisurely circuit of the bike just to refresh my memory. That would be the preferred plan, but it's hard to think that way right now with my back (S-I joint?) bugging me some.

As for Saturday, though, I will hang out however you want to do it -- short of hiking, however. Or canoeing. Or kayaking. A swim, though, would be dandy. Eating is always good! And I can get there even earlier on Saturday than in the afternoon; if I leave at seven I'm there by eleven. And probably in terms of Route 7 traffic, earlier in the day is better.

Although this has been in my sights for a while now, and when that happens I usually book accoms first and at least have that in place, I've been dragging in this case. I think I will get serious about that RIGHT NOW!

But first, I'll just say that I know that feeling of some race or other feeling "right". I haven't figured out a formula or pattern for that --- it just happens when it happens, I guess!

Sorry your back is bugging you.   Funny you mention S-I joint.  Ken's right hip has been bothering him for a couple of weeks and yoga seems to aggravate it, especially bending over - he is feeling the 'red flag' kind of pain.  I have been nagging him to go to the chiro because I believed he needed an adjustment, so he finally went today and sure enough........   Also got some ART and the chiro wrote out an assessment for him to take to the massage therapist - a big, DEEP, muscle that starts sort of in the middle of the back and goes down to the hip has really shortened and  is 'lifting' the hip and causing SI dysfunction.   He called is Quadratus Lumborum myofasciitis, if I got the spelling right.     Hope you get yours looked after rather than trying to work through it.

Just spent over an hour trying to find accommodation in VT using the list of places provided by Rushton Sports.   All the ones I initially liked were $160-$200+ per night which we cannot justify after spending 400 on the race fee, even if it is vacation.      Moved on to the motels and quickly forgot about them.   The reviews were dreadful - from 'this is the most disgusting place I have have stay at' to 'the proprietor was repulsive and rude'.   Tons of this type of stuff.   Started to get scared.  

Really wanted to be close to the race site, so ended up calling and booking the Salisbury Station Bed and Breakfast & Wellness Centre.   It is 10 minutes from race site and the owner is doing the massages for the race.   There is no one staying in our room on Friday night at the moment, so she said we can check in before noon if she doesn't book it.   She is making an exception on the Sunday allowing guests to check out after the triathlon and come back for a shower and change of clothes.   She will prepare breakfast whenever we would like it - 5:00-5:30.    Very accommodating.   The only thing is she doesn't take credit cards so we have to send her a cheque and it doesn't have to be a U.S. cheque (just include the difference in exchange).    Our room was $110.   She has 2 other rooms - one at $120 and one at $130.  Both still open at this time although she is playing telephone tag with another gentleman who was looking to book a room.  

We will probably be too tired to do much on Friday after driving all day but would swim for sure on Saturday and even a short bike.   I don't usually eat food prepared by others at these types of events, but think I will try it this time.   

I'm pretty sure we are going to book a site at Branbury State Park for Friday night.  Sounds pretty good.  

Hey Shaun,

Glad you made it home safe and sound.   Hope the appt went well on Monday.   I have never washed my shoes in a washing machine so have no idea what would happen.   I think it would depend on your machine and just how rough it is.   I have a hand wash cyclel on mine that I use for things that are not supposed to be machine washed and have never destroyed anything.   I might try it on an old pair first just to see what happens.  

HA!  Burlington is a pretty awesome place, that is for sure.

Well, the water is cold at Lobsterman.  I don't mind it in a weird sort of way.  I hate wait...HATE swimming in the ocean though.  The briney taste in your mouth, the murky water, the seaweed globs floating up at you, and in the back of my head I have the irrational thought that I am really just part of the food chain... Que the Jaws theme - Na na...na na...nanananananananana....

ANNE --

ACK! That is not good news about accoms being so precious or potentially disasterous. maybe I had some deep-seated cosmic vibe that that was the case, which is why I didn't check all that first. ACK!

I have just scouted around the motels in Rutland, with the upside being that they are affordable, the downside being that they are about 45 minutes from the race site. But I have done that sort of drive before, and it doesn't really phase me; I'm up so early on race mornings anyhow!

I have called Comfort Inn and Red Roof Inn, and using my senior status and/or CAA, I'm getting rates around $70. If I ignore the drive, that kind of cost is about $25-30 less than I was figuring I might pay in summer, so I think I should be pleased. Maybe?

So, I'll give you some numbers if you want to pursue the staycheap/drivelong option.

Comfort Inn
802.775.2200
(They have two in Rutland; ask for the one that is clsoest to the junction of 7 and 4)

Red Roof Inn
802.775.4303

Ramada Limited
802.773.3361

Rodeway Inn
802.775.2575

There are some others, so let me know if you want them, too. I will likely book at one of the above later tonight, and then keep searching in the meantime; might even consider the campground option for the Saturday night! (I had a decent race at Timberman HIM in '04, tenting the night before. But I was young then!

Again, sorry about this glitch. I guess I shoulda checked before I opened my big yap.........

ANNE again -

As for the back........yes, it is a botheration and a concern. My S-I was awful, almost a deal-breaker back in '02 and '03, and then I had a great, comprehensive fit from Fit-Werx (VT) and that solved everything. I'm not convinced that what is bugging me now is S-I, but it's close. It is kind of wrapping around to the right hip, which I don't remember the S-I doing. It is also pervasive now, whereas back then the S-I problem was only present when I was riding; once done, i was fine (or so i remember it).

I did a very brisk 74' run today, and for the final 35' or so I could feel it in my right glute, but not over to the hip. On yesterday's 55' run, I think I felt stuff a bit more widespread, and wondered if it was compromising my running form at all; I didn't feel that at all today, form was just fine.

It was in my plans to ride today and test it, see how another 40km or so would work, but I end up swimming and running instead; probably just as well. I might just give it a few days off, maybe ride again on the weekend. My A.R.T. person is working IMLP, so I'll probably see her tomorrow when I'm down trying to spend too much money at the expo. Maybe I can even squeeze in a quick half-hour with her, if the hordes of more deserving athletes aren't lined up waiting for panic treatment before embarking on 140.6 on Sunday.

Blah, blah, blah!!

Thanks for those numbers.   We are really happy with the B&B we picked and the rate as well, so will stay there Sat night.   But we may pick one of those hotels for Friday night.   Found out there is a minimum stay of 2 nights for VT State parks, which was kind of annoying.  

Ken is supposed to be in Rockford, IL on the 25th and 26th, but if those plans change we may end up leaving on Thursday the 26th and then WOULD camp 2 nights.  

Have spent the better part of the day planning the entire month of August.   Not one `free`day now.     

We have loosely planned our trip after the race - Monday exploring the area around the park and north to Burlington; taking a ferry across to NY and probably staying at a park called Meadowbrook? really close to Placid and will bike one day and hike one day.   Then head south a bit and either canoe or hike.    Checked out a couple of State parks south of Geneva and will spend a couple of days there cycling and whatever.   You CAN stay one night at the NY State parks. 

As we are looking at the maps we have discovered just how close this entire area is to us.   A HUGE playground!  

WOW, you really get around.   Going to Placid for an expo.   It must be pretty awesome.   I have been talking to a young girl at the pool who is racing this weekend with her husband.    Hope they do well.   

Hope you are able to sneak a few minutes with your ART person, and don`t spend too much money at the expo.  

ANNE -

Sounds like a plan --- MANY plans!

LP is about 2:30 from me, much easier going than returning due to a horrificially reconfigured border crossing back into Canada at Cornwall. There's a big story about this concerening my former constituents, the Mohawks of Ahkwesahsne, and remind me to tell you about that when we are together. As for a Placid ride, depending on the day I would be game for it.....that is, if you two still have a stomach for me!

The IMLP expo is a very weird thing, as are all the M-dot expos. They are not "open" affairs; that is, not just any vendor can pay their money and claim a spot. It is limited to a few choice, chosen vendors, among them Inside-Out (the main all-purpose vendor), Newton, K-Swiss, Endless Pools, Trigger Point, and a few others. It is a definitely not a free-for-all, which is what one might expect, right? Oh, and there is also the big tent with all of the (mostly overpriced) IMLP stuff.

Inside-Out is one of the biggest tri stores in the U.S., and they are located in Cary, NC. Along with all-purpose tri gear at all the M-dots, they also handle the bike issues. They have a great reputation, to be sure, but I gotta tell you what I did about 5 or 6 years ago.....

Triathlete magazine did an issue back then where they profiled each of the M-dot races, what the town had to offer, all that kind of stuff. One of the categories was "Best Bike Shop" ----- and for EVERY U.S.-based M-dot, what was listed was Inside-Out. This really annoyed me, because each of those towns has a bike shop that could use the props from Triathlete. In Lake Placid there is High Peaks Cyclery, and my favorite, Placid Planet. Starting today, Placid Planet is open 24/7 right up through Sunday, and if that's not service I don't know what is. (Inside-Out is open from 9-7, I believe.)

I stewed about this for a bit, and then posted about it on Slowtwitch -- to the effect of a menage-a-trois between Triathlete and Inside-Out and M-dot, EXCEPT I didn't use the m-a-t term. Mostly, I defended the independent bike shops, and if the category is Best Bike Shop, how caould they not include the local ones, as opposed to Inside-Out which is there five days a year. Many people understood my position, but not Dan Empfield, the owner of Slowtwitch. He really ripped into me, feeling that I was somehow calling Inside-Out to task. I repsonded that I have no beef with them, but rather Triathlete and M-dot, with the latter "feeding" the preferred info to Triathlete. Anyhow, that wasn't pleasant, and to this day I don't know why Empfield responded quite the way he did. Maybe it was a bad day for him. But if I often kvetch about WTC and the M-dot wannabe-monopoly.....that is just one bit of supporting evidence!

Tomorrow it's Newtons and, hopefully, EFS. Plus meeting up with hooslisa form my other group, and who sometimes pops up here. She is there for about six days with her tri club (Team FExy), which has rented a chalet and are doing heavy training there -- as well as volunteering on Sunday.

Gotta go! Lynn is lurking!




Edited by stevebradley 2010-07-21 9:32 PM

Good luck this weekend Anne!

I'm feeling better about my race this weekend now that I have finally dragged my butt over to the course. I feel like just seeing the course is half the preparation, you know? I swam around a bit in the bay where the course will be, then ran about 1/2 of the run course. The run course is very nice, winding along the shore and quite flat throughout. It was also good to get back in the wetsuit and get the feel of that again.

The best part of this though is that (knock on wood) my neuroma has still not resurfaced. I know anyone who's had injuries or pain already knows this feeling, but it is just SO great to be able to run without pain. It's like you can just run and think about the run, without having to get distracted by anything else.

Thanks Tracey.  I'm looking forward to it.   Have no idea what the weather will be like.   For the fun of it, we have been printing the forecast for the past week and it changes daily.   The only constant has been some rain.      The goal for me on this one is to gain some valuable experience that might help me later in the season.

I am glad you are feeling better about your race.   I checked out the race link and it sounds like a nice one.   Really great to have a closed bike course.   We had someone get hit by a car during a race in early June.   He's OK but was seriously hurt. 

Any VERY good news about the neuroma.   I have a nagging feeling I won't be able to say the same when I get back to running.   Every now and then when I put on dress shoes (but they are not really  high), I can feel a twinge or two.  

Hope you have a great race!