BT Development Mentor Program Archives » Tri/tbay group closed Rss Feed  
Moderators: alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 22
 
 
2009-08-24 11:50 AM
in reply to: #2366650

User image

Regular
182
100252525
Brazoria County
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed
Yeah, Steven, re: your half marathon, I need to say officially that I Hate You.  :-)  Incredible run, and consistent also with yoru splits.

I completed my first Olympic tri this past Saturday, everything was right where it needed to be until mile 3 on the run, when my legs were dead.  Start conditions were 76 deg and 95% humidity, and it got worse from there, finish temp was 88 deg, still high humidity.

Other than multiple lacerations from oyster beds (not to mention a run-in with a portugese man-of-war...what is it about me and marine life anyway??), the swim went fine.  I averaged just a bit over 2:00 100m's, HR never got above about 135, could've kept swimming further easily.  Actually exited the water able to smile and shout back at members of my club who were lining the chute.

T1 OK, I intentionally took a few extra seconds due to weather (slipped on a Halo headband prior to bike helmet to channel weat out of eyes, brushed debris off of my feet before putting on shoes, etc.), 1:19.

Bike was better than I thought, everaged 19.8 mph, horrible road surface between miles 14 and 16 caused my average to be under 20.

T2 also casual, wore the Zoots without orthotics or socks, and they were fine.  (My custom orthotics just make the toe box too small, and I don't need socks for a 10K).  Also donned a two-bottle race belt due to heat (water breaks were every mile, didn't feel that this was enough).  1:30.

Run started OK enough, legs were a bit dead but was to be expected; unfortunately, they never recovered.  I had to stop at mile 2 water break, pour a cup of cold water over my head and walk a bit.  It was all over at that point, as I run/walked the rest of the way.  Damn, but it was hot, lots of people cramping up (thankfully, I was hydrated enough that I didn't have that problem), walking, just dying on the run course.  It was a combination sprint/oly course, out-and-back...hardest thing I had to do was keep going when the sprint guys got to make their half-way turn!  8:20 miles for mile 1-2, 9:54 average for the entire 10K...sucked.

OVerall, I finished somewhere in the middle of my age group at 2:51 and change (but results STILL have not been posted...just one of a number of problems with the way this race was organized).

I've clearly got bike-run work ahead of me prior to Redman, but oh well.


2009-08-24 12:30 PM
in reply to: #2366730

User image

Extreme Veteran
639
50010025
Lakeland
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed

wildcat83 - 2009-08-24 12:50 PM Yeah, Steven, re: your half marathon, I(we) need to say officially that I(we) Hate You.  :-
That's what I wanted to say so I added we into the sentence. LOL>



Edited by tri/tbay 2009-08-24 1:41 PM
2009-08-24 12:37 PM
in reply to: #2366868

User image

Regular
182
100252525
Brazoria County
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed
One more thing I forgot to mention re: the swim course--I (and many others) saw a gator in the water about 300-400 meters from the swim course as I did my pre-race warm-up.  Niiiice.

Finally found the results, I finished 14/22 in my age group, 208/332 men.  Not great, not bad, just what it was.

As bad as my run was, I still finished 10/22 in my age group...tells a lot about how rough conditions were if I finished above the mid-point in my group.

Edited by wildcat83 2009-08-24 2:06 PM
2009-08-24 3:06 PM
in reply to: #2366893

User image

Expert
1210
1000100100
Near Tampa
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed

Great race mike

My report for another Sprint.  This was my first race last yr, so fo the first time i am able to gauge progress in actual race conditions.

S Rank 13   S Time 10:59   (600 yd)
B Rank 11   B Time 31:51  B Speed 20.0   (10.6 mi)
R Rank 17   R Time 27:10  R Pace  8:46 (3.1 mi)
Final  1:09:59

I am really excited because last yr my time here was 1:27.48 (18 minutes slower)
Even since my last race in July, my running has improved.  Being able to maintain 8:46 pace after the bike is huge for me.  My goal was 1:15    At no time in the run I felt like there was no end so I kept pushing hard (this Garmin is a great motivator - seeing what you're actually doing and figuring out you can maintain that pace for another mile really helps)

Overall: swim was middle of the pack, strong bike, and back to middle on the run (215th, 78th and 216th respectively). Running in the middle of the pack feels lots better than near the tail end. The OA place was 130 from 500 athletes - almost on the top 25%  And it would take just a couple of seconds to get there, so I am ready.

I am also ready to start training for OLYs.  Although I will probably repeat this race next year as well, I plan on doing only OLYs and train for the full marathon. 

I swam on the first wave and decided to stay on the inside.  Although I got my share of kicks and elbows, i am happy with that decision.  There was a bit of a current against us but 13th/34 out of the water is a good way to start the race. I looked back when I was on the sand and the next wave was just passing the slower swimmers.

The one thing I really hated most was landing a great rack (first one next to the bike start).  This menat I had to run over the entire parking lot (pebbles) to get to the bike from the water, but also coming in from the bike, they made us walk our bikes all the way to the end and back to our racks, then run all the way to the back for the Run start.  That long bike push was crazy and added some unnecessary time, but it was what it was.    My garmin time was 1:07:10    That would have just given me a 12th place on AG but the satisfaction of beating one of my local training buddies.  Next time he better look out. 



Edited by TrkHilo2k 2009-08-24 3:11 PM
2009-08-24 3:13 PM
in reply to: #2367383

User image

Regular
182
100252525
Brazoria County
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed
That is solid Olman--it is nice to be able to compare aples to apples over time, isn't it?  How was your HR when you came out of the water--feel pretty comfortable?  And as for your run splits, did you take off at a pretty good clip right from the bike or did it take a mile for your legs to "become your own" again?

I know exactly how gratifying it is to compare results in the same race, I raced a second year in a tri back in June, knocked almost exactly 10 minutes off of my prior year time (1:17 vs. 1:07, 300M swim, 12 mile bike, 3 mile run).

So what's your next race?
2009-08-24 3:37 PM
in reply to: #2366730

User image

Regular
126
10025
Jamestown, ND
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed

wildcat83 - 2009-08-24 11:50 AM Yeah, Steven, re: your half marathon, I need to say officially that I Hate You.  :-)  Incredible run, and consistent also with yoru splits.

That is funny!!  I laughed out loud at work when I read that sentence. 


I completed my first Olympic tri this past Saturday, everything was right where it needed to be until mile 3 on the run, when my legs were dead. 

 

I know how you feel, Mike.  Remember my race report from June for my 1st Olympic?  Same thing.  About mile 2.5 I was toast and walked/ran the rest of the way.  I am glad to say I have completely eliminated nutrition based failures (cramping, stomach issues, etc) from workouts and races.  Your situation is a bit different with the extreme heat and humidity.  I have worked as hard on that as I have my training.  I retract any negative statement I have ever made about Hammer products.  I use Endurolytes, Perpetuem, Premium Insurance Caps, Mito Caps, Race Caps Supreme and Recoverite pretty much daily.  I don't use the gels anymore just because I don't use any product on workouts 1 hour or less anymore, and anything above that I use Perpetuem. 

Olman, nice work on your improvement this season!!  You have really shown what digging into your results can do for dialing in your training and working on where you need to improve!!!  That will be a springboard for even better performances next season.  Keep it up. 



2009-08-24 3:47 PM
in reply to: #2367484

User image

Regular
182
100252525
Brazoria County
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed
Other than the endurance fluids, I, also, use Hammer endurolytes, anti-fatigue caps, energy surge caplets.  Also take 2-3 thermotabs (salt tabs) prior to a workout, and take a gel sparingly (never on a workout of less than 2 hours--Gatorade with a pinch of salt works fine for me).

My pre-run/race nutrition is pretty solidly locked in:  two packages of instant grits, with a bit of butter and shredded cheese added in, about an hour or 1.5 hrs prior to the race/workout.  Bland but still has flavor, carbs, a bit of protein, salt.

I haven't bonked badly since I quit trying to use Heed alone as a running fuel/fluid (man, but were those some ugly workouts when I was finding that out).  I'll still carry one bottle of Heed plus three bottles of Gatorade, since the Heed can be taken with a gel during my long runs.

I'm thinking of experimenting with putting a Nuun tablet into my Gatorade bottles the night before a run for the added electrolytes--I have two bottles of them just sitting around.

My sweat rate this summer has been an incredible--and consistent--10-freakin'-ounces per mile.  Clearly, I can't replace that much fluid during a workout, so I have to have recovery drinks ready at hand immediately post workout so I don't get dehydration headaches.  The problem I have is the incredible sloshing in my shoes!
2009-08-25 9:31 AM
in reply to: #2367416

User image

Expert
1210
1000100100
Near Tampa
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed
wildcat83 - 2009-08-24 4:13 PM That is solid Olman--it is nice to be able to compare aples to apples over time, isn't it?  How was your HR when you came out of the water--feel pretty comfortable?  And as for your run splits, did you take off at a pretty good clip right from the bike or did it take a mile for your legs to "become your own" again?

I know exactly how gratifying it is to compare results in the same race, I raced a second year in a tri back in June, knocked almost exactly 10 minutes off of my prior year time (1:17 vs. 1:07, 300M swim, 12 mile bike, 3 mile run).

So what's your next race?


HR was not bad coming out of the water, I could still run at a good pace to T1. 
My running felt pretty good after the first 100 yd or so.  That was a good indicator; and my first mile was @ 8:41 pace - first indicator I was going to finish well.  Even if I had run 9:00 miles I would have met my goal, but I smashed it by going 5:00 faster than that.  It does feel very good to look back and where I am - even w/o looking at my times-just looking at the mirror.  I have been able to keep off every single pound of weight I dropped between Jan and Feb.  That is the best part.

As far as races, I'm only booked for one more Sprint (same series) in October but am looking for an OLY in late Sept.  I am also signed up for 1/2 mary in November.   Considering a winter Oly series but they take place in lakes and I don't really like 'em; especially now with the Pythons in the news...
 
Thx for your support.
-----

Mike:
I know youre a scientist/engineer so you already know what each and everyone of those 50 products you take, do.  From where I stand, it looks like an awful lot of duplicity.   I guess you could use the "if it works,I'll stick with it" mentality but you might want to chart where you're overloading etc.  Still, I understand why and it's easier said than done, so I am not saying your doing anything wrong but take a step back and analyze the data...  who knows, it might make you faster.

Edited by TrkHilo2k 2009-08-25 9:38 AM
2009-08-25 10:17 AM
in reply to: #2368898

User image

Regular
182
100252525
Brazoria County
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed
Olman, I agree that it is difficult for me to discern differences amonght e (many) Hammer products--so many seem to do similar things, and it is also hard to know which one(s) are helping, which are neutral/unnecessary, and which if any are detrimental. 

Given my sweat rate and the horrible conditions my training occurs in, I have decided to err on the side of all the help I can get from an electrolyte perspective, especially since I can't come close to replacing the fluids I lose (and I am also a heavy salt sweater, so know I am at risk for cramping due to electrolyte imbalance).

I'm open for suggestions as to how to implement, but each tablet only contains a very small percentage of your RDA in the salts category, generally in the 1-3% range, so they are only an augment to my fluids.
2009-08-26 1:26 PM
in reply to: #2369081

User image

Expert
1210
1000100100
Near Tampa
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed
Mike, r u a lawyer too?  read your answer... I had to read it three times before I could understand - LOL

I agree, that's why i suggest you put the ingreds and benefits on a spreadsheet - again, I also tend to err towards "it seems to help - don't change it". 

For electrolytes, believe me, many of these producers use nothing but table salt.  It is processed and has some Sodium and some Potassium.  I often add a bit of sea salt to my mixes but thats only sodium - still it seems to help but its very obvious on the taste buds.  I still think you have a lot of duplicity.  Hammer has a book as well as a magazine that explains the use of each of their products.  I have both at home.  They advocate the fact tht it is not necessary to replace the amounts spent on training but to continue giving the body what it needs to keep the engine running.  Another proof that you might be overloading even if it seems to work.  I'll mail you the magazine.  Send me your address again.
2009-08-26 9:16 PM
in reply to: #2366730

User image

Expert
1210
1000100100
Near Tampa
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed


2009-08-27 8:00 AM
in reply to: #1901752

User image

Regular
126
10025
Jamestown, ND
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed

Let me preface my next sentence by saying, I am not a doctor, never even played one on TV.  Mike, I don't want to sound like I'm piling on, but one thing that really changed my workout/overall hydration was the book Olman is talking about.  It encourages drinking half your body weight in ounces of water per day not counting anything you drink during exercise.  For me that means a minimum of 80 ounces of water per day (160lbs/2 in ounces).  Since I've started doing that I have found that I start my workouts topped off and feel better longer.  I usually hit 96 ounces (fill up my 24 ounce water bottle four times during the work day). 

Today I leave for Phoenix for the greatest fantasy football league in history.  Me and two other guys started it ten years ago.  It has evolved into this same group making this trip every year.  A friend of mine has been blessed with the ability to sustain a 14 year MLB career and currently plays for the Astros.  Starting 7 years ago, every year (usually Labor Day) the other 9 of us in the league travel to wherever he is playing for our draft.  He gets us rooms at the team hotel and tickets right behind home plate for all the games that weekend.  We've been to KC, Cleveland twice, Detroit, LA (Anaheim), and Houston while he has played for Anaheim (won WS in 2002 with them), Chicago White Sox and now Houston.  There is a waiting list of 9 replacements if someone gives up their spot in the league (this has never happened in the last 7 years, although we kicked a guy out two years ago).  There are 4 original members of the league left that were there in '99.  The league is all about this draft weekend.   Here's the link to the hotel we're staying at:

http://www.ritzcarlton.com/en/Properties/Phoenix/Default.htm

Yeah, kind of looks like a dump.  Have a great weekend!!  I know I will!!

2009-08-27 8:53 AM
in reply to: #2373491

User image

Expert
1210
1000100100
Near Tampa
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed
OK - Dr Steve, I'm jealous !!!

Have fun my friend.  My LD weekend will be spent in Ft Lauderdale Bch with friends and family as well. 
2009-08-27 10:51 AM
in reply to: #2373491

User image

Regular
182
100252525
Brazoria County
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed
Took all of 10 seconds on Google (awesome tool) to figure out that your buddy is Darin Erstad!

Your weekend sounds like an awesome gathering of buddies--have fun!

I can't wait to get the book from Olman, I am sure it will change the way I prepare for training and races.  I know for a fact that I don't hydrate enough during the day--no way in the world I take in half of what you do, not to mention the fact that I drink coffee like a fiend, which is a diuretic.

I'm setting up an 18-mile long run for Saturday, trying to plan a different route, with a cooler dropped off about half way for refueling, hope to have 3-4 others join my wife and I (how cool is it that my wife not only runs, but runs the same training pace as I do?).
2009-08-27 11:05 AM
in reply to: #2373973

User image

Expert
1210
1000100100
Near Tampa
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed
wildcat83 - 2009-08-27 11:51 AM 
I can't wait to get the book from Olman, I am sure it will change the way I prepare for training and races.  I know for a fact that I don't hydrate enough during the day--no way in the world I take in half of what you do, not to mention the fact that I drink coffee like a fiend, which is a diuretic. QUOTE]

Mike, pls follow the link a few bogs up to download the book rather than me sending out my copy, which I refer to often, and you'll get it instantly.  I emailed you links to the site and suggest you also sign up for the Nutrition Newsletters.  Very comprehensive site. 
2009-08-27 11:08 AM
in reply to: #1901752

User image

Regular
182
100252525
Brazoria County
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed
Got it Olman, sorry, I missed your earlier post.  Thanks for the tip!


2009-08-28 8:36 AM
in reply to: #2374031

User image

Expert
1210
1000100100
Near Tampa
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed
wildcat83 - 2009-08-27 12:08 PM Got it Olman, sorry, I missed your earlier post.  Thanks for the tip!


M: How much of the book did u digest already?
They're the most aligned with what I know in terms of nutritional and ingestion/absorption data.  I will continues ot buy their products. 
2009-08-28 9:03 AM
in reply to: #1901752

User image

Extreme Veteran
639
50010025
Lakeland
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed

I'll chime in on  the Hammer, although my knowledge is limited. I have studied the product information and have shared it with a dietitian friend to look at. I feel they have done their homework and produce very high quality products, with performance being placed at the highest regard. I haven't been using as much of their product as I did last year, but I use perpeteum, endurolytes either powder of capsules and the gels when I get a chance. I haven't used any of the other products, ie. race caps, recoverite etc. I was using their Whey protein, but its a little expensive and I found another comparable brand that is more cost effective to use.

Steven have a good trip and have some fun. I was an Astros fan when I lived in Houston, had a couple of dome foams in my day. 32oz Pearl beer in a cup, blah.



Edited by tri/tbay 2009-08-28 9:04 AM
2009-08-28 10:14 AM
in reply to: #2375935

User image

Regular
182
100252525
Brazoria County
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed
TrkHilo2k - 2009-08-28 8:36 AM
wildcat83 - 2009-08-27 12:08 PM Got it Olman, sorry, I missed your earlier post.  Thanks for the tip!


M: How much of the book did u digest already?
They're the most aligned with what I know in terms of nutritional and ingestion/absorption data.  I will continues ot buy their products. 


Olman, I had read some of it in the past, but started from page 1 yesterday, also did a lot of reading other articles on the Hammer website.  I am dialing down just a bit my fluid intake, going from 32-35 oz per hour to a goal of 25-28 oz, also am going to experiment (much like I did when I ran Napa last spring) with using hour bottles of Perpetuem augmented with plain water, such that I can take a gel on occasion if needed.  Also did the math on electrolytes, and figure I probably only need 2 Endurolytes per hour to augment the Perpetuem.

I found the pre-race meal articles on the web highly enlightening--says that anything inside a 3-hour window prior to 2 hour + race/workout is detrimental to your liver glycogen stores because it enlists that glycogen to help digest the food.  Says it is OK to start with a hungry feeling, to take a gel 5-10 min prior to start instead; for shorter workouts/races )~ 1 hr), eating something has the opposite effect--it causes your system to begin flooding with glycogen that was released from liver to digest pre-race meal, thus giving you what you need from start to finish.

I have an 18-miler tomorrow that I am going to use for experimentation as mentioned, may add some Hammer gel to my plain Perpetuem for a little flavor.  Also, have planned two refueling stops along the way where I will stash replacement bottles.

Excellent stuff on the Hammer web site, lots of consistent thought behind it all, and presented in an easy-to-understand format.
2009-08-28 11:58 AM
in reply to: #1901752

User image

Extreme Veteran
639
50010025
Lakeland
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed

Hey Mike I tried the start out with the gel pre-race in the absence of a regular meal, I didn't like it. I understand their thought on getting a little more sleep but I think it is another area that needs to be rehearsed. So see how it goes this weekend. I'm going to do around 10 miles tomorrow, I won't eat that much in advance and mostly rely on what I take with me during the run. I'll mix a bottle of electrolyte and take a gel with me, that ususally takes care of a run this distance.

2009-08-28 12:08 PM
in reply to: #2376517

User image

Regular
182
100252525
Brazoria County
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed
I'll  let you know how it goes, but I also have felt the wooziness due to not having anything in my stomach (or not enough) prior to long, sweaty runs in the past.  What I may do is kind of a compromise--eat something bland (like a bagel or toast) shortly prior to the run, instead of taking the gel, so at least I have a little something in my stomach. 

We'll just have to see, that could cause gastrointestinal problems also. 

Right now, I am so sore from a hard massage Tuesday followed by a visit to the sports therapist Thursday, trying to get some knots in my calves and quads worked out, that I could hardly walk last night!  Hopefully, I'll be recovered enough tomorrow to give the long run a good go!


2009-09-04 11:16 AM
in reply to: #2376539

User image

Expert
1210
1000100100
Near Tampa
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed
long weekend ahead - I'm going to try to add some swimming or riding today but I am pretty sure the rest of the week has been blocked by the wife.  We're spending the weekend at the beach.  C ya'll next week!   Have fun in yer trainings and races.
2009-09-04 1:27 PM
in reply to: #1901752

User image

Regular
126
10025
Jamestown, ND
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed

I just scratched from my HIM race on the 13th.  I have a stress fracture in my foot.  I've had it since 8/1, but now the pain is no longer bearable.  I suspected it for a long time, but I blocked it out as long as I could.  I was hoping to just get by until the 13th and then rest it for 8-10 weeks.  If you need me, I'll be in the deep, dark recesses of the injury cave.

2009-09-04 5:02 PM
in reply to: #2390067

User image

Regular
182
100252525
Brazoria County
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed
Man Steven, sorry to hear that.  But you are smart to know when to listen to your body.  I am fighting a chest cold now, trying to just stay healthy two more weeks until my own HIM!  I didn't listen to my body back in January, and after fighting the flu and an upper respiratory thing for a couple of weeks, I was feeling better so went ahead and started the Houston marathon...BIG mistake.  I ended up only running half, cramped up badly several times, could hardly limp along due to dehydration.

There will be other races!
2009-09-04 7:09 PM
in reply to: #1901752

User image

Extreme Veteran
639
50010025
Lakeland
Subject: RE: Tri/tbay group closed

Hello Boys,

Good to see your posts. Steven, thats no good, a friend of mine also has the possibly the same issue. He upped his run mileage considerably and might of worked himself into an injury. At least you caught it, and  rest will cure it. I'm sure your dissapointed not to do the HIM. Mike I hear you about staying healthy. The swine flu is running rampant around my area, I know 5 who have had in the last six weeks. So I'm trying to be careful. Also one of my daughters friends at college has come down with it as well.

I'm feeling ready for Oct. 3rd a couple more weekends of some long ride/runs and it will be showtime. Mike how are you feeling. There are alot of BT'ers doing that race. Your run  training should right on to do a 1/2mary in the HIM.

My recovery has been really good after hard/long workouts which is encouraging so I'm looking forward to the day.

Have a great weekend, keep talking  to us Steven, we need to hear the echo from the pit.

New Thread
BT Development Mentor Program Archives » Tri/tbay group closed Rss Feed  
 
 
of 22