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2007-06-30 9:02 AM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL
Does any of the experienced triathletes here have any suggestions for us newbies as to how to swim defensively during the OWS? I'm more worried about something happening to me like what happened to the woman at Tara's tri - getting kicked in the face and knocked out or something like that - than I am about my body crapping out.

Also, I bought a road bike last night. Bike porn will be coming soon.


2007-06-30 11:26 AM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL

Actually I didn't race in St. Anthony's - It was an Oly.  But its just down the road and was all over the news when it happened. 

The race organizer told me to start in the back of the pack and stay to the outside (not the inside toward the direction that you'll be turning if your on a triangular or out and back course).  I still got caught up in a crowd with feet and arms in my face but most the athletes in the back aren't going to run over you to win - they're struggling just like you are.  Bubbles in the water where the most unexpected thing for me, plus the fact that the person right next to me was on the same cadence and everytime I turned my head to take a breath she was staring me in the face - weird!  I guess sorta like on the road - swim defensively and stay away from the crazies who don't care if they run over you.

2007-07-02 10:26 AM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL

Tara's right.  Know your pace and swim accordingly.  If you're not speedy, then hang back or swim outside the main lane.  Let the go fasts go first.  There will still be some bumping around, but as the pack stretches out it gets easier to find clean water.  If you are hanging with swimmers in your pace, try to draft from them.  It's legal in the swim.  I'm usually bop so this is, unfortunately, not an option.  I'm shooting to swim more mop this weekend. 

I had a great OWS training yesterday and finally felt comfortable.   Granted, there wasn't the intensity of a race, but there were lots of swimmers going around the track and a lot of floating debris (sticks, leaves, small branches), plus we're now swimming over what used to be land, so there are all kinds of bushes underwater.  None of that crap phased me this time.  It felt awesome.  TI has really helped me with my comfort and confidence in the water.  I went 1000 (2 500s with a small break on land) and didn't need a kayak for anything.  As I wrote in my logs, I even strung together many sets of freestyle strokes with fewer pauses in breaststroke, mainly for sighting.  I tried a 5 stroke breathing and found that in OW, the 3 stroke gave me more O2 and more comfort.  I'll sacrifice speed for comfortable breathing any day.

It's a real bummer about that guy who drowned.  I had that in the back of my mind during my swim, not so much worry, but awareness.  What would I do if a cramp struck, for instance.  Not really sure what the answer is, but I guarantee I'd make a hell of a racket to get somebody's attention.

On another note, it's hot - stay hydrated and well fueled.  I had to assist my running buddy on our 10 miler on Saturday.  He claims he can't eat much in the morning.  Pshaw!  He cratered in mile 4.  I had offered water (I carry a water belt on runs longer than 5-6) and he declined in mile 2 prefering to wait until the turn.  When he cratered, I forced some down him.  We also walked for a few minutes and I had some of those jelly belly "nutrition" beans which I rationed for him.  Bottom line, a solid food base before a training sesssion is just as important as your liquid intake.  It's been especially wet, rainy, and humid here lately, so our internal cooling systems don't work as efficiently.  I'm a firm believer that one should frequently drink a little bit at a time over the course of a training session instead of waiting for pre-set intervals and gulping down a lot.

 I think a lot of this group also lives in warm, humid climates.  Hope this little story helps.

2007-07-05 1:54 PM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL

Dang, peeps.  My tri just got converted to a du due to too much water in the lake - go figure.

BTW - anybody out there or am I just talking to myself?

2007-07-05 3:54 PM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL
Too much water in the lake? Um...what?

You're not talking to yourself, Doug. We're out here.
2007-07-06 8:37 AM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL

Hey Doug...and everyone else for that matter.  I'm still here and I've been reading all of the posts...just lazy about responding or posting myself.  I'll get back on the ball.

I had fallen a bit off track with a tough couple of weeks at work and then a week and a half of vacation.  I did no training at all for the first 3 weeks then my last week of vacation I did a couple short jogs and a bit of swimming. 

My first week back into real training was very difficult mentally.  Last week was a bit of a struggle but nothing to really speak of.  This week has felt pretty amazing.

I have two upcoming events, on July 14th I'm doing a 1k ows race and then on 7/22 I'm doing the NJ State triathlon (sprint), the same tri that Chris is doing.  August will be a slow month and then in September I have a sprint tri, my "A" race and I'm hoping to do a 10k run by the end of the season.

I'm glad everyone else is still doing well.

talk to you all soon



2007-07-06 9:56 AM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL

Yeah, ironic isn't it?  The dang lake is 8 ft. up right now and the beach for the start is underwater.  I guess they don't want us getting caught in submerged things like bbqs, picnic tables, bushes, sign posts, etc. while swimming.  It's really bizarre.  Last week's OWS clinic went off from a closed boat ramp.  The swim in was interesting as you swam over landscaped bushes.

I'm bummed as I wanted that OWS training for HIM.  As much as we might dislike the swim leg, we seem to whine or miss it even more when it's cancelled.  Go figure.

Y'all have a good weekend of training or events.

2007-07-06 2:00 PM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL
I hear you - considering what's been going on at tri's with people dying, it makes sense to make it a du - like you said, can't have people getting injured or worse on submerged stuff that's typically not submerged. Sorry to hear about missing that for the HIM training, that's a real stinker.

In the middle of a rest twofer - doing my first OWS with Jay tomorrow and then doing another bike/run brick Sunday first thing. One more week of training before doing the taper, and I'm going to go as all-out as time permits.

Everyone - have a great weekend and stay safe.
2007-07-07 8:24 PM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL
Doug: You must be in the only place in these United States with high water levels. All over the East, at least what I have seen in Maryland, DC, and VA, the water levels here are as low as they have been in quite soem time. Very little rain.
That sucks about loosing the open water swim. I have not done one yet and know I really, really need to. Pretty cool to be able to do an open water swim clinic. Share that knowledge...


Edited by fgray 2007-07-07 8:24 PM
2007-07-08 9:16 AM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL
I just did my first OWS yesterday, and while on paper it was a disaster, it was beyond helpful in terms of knowledge.

Being pool-bred, I had never been out in water deeper than my shoulders in any kind of open water setting - yeah, I've been in the ocean and in lakes, but never to swim, just to goof around. All of my swimming has been in pools, and I didn't think this would be a problem.

I went to the OWS with Jay. I made it out to the first buoy without too much problem, and another three or four strokes past the first buoy I had a panic attack. My lungs totally locked up, I took on water, and my mind totally blanked out. First time I had a panic attack. I think it was due to the fact I had never done an OWS before, nothing on the bottom to guide me, and knew I couldn't touch bottom. The safety kayak saw me and came over and helped me relax (just turn over and float - it definitely takes the edge off the anxiety even if you just float for fifteen seconds). He suggested I just go between the first buoy and shore (I'd say about 75 yards), get used to the idea of being in open water, and learn how to sight. By the time we finished, while I was bummed that I didn't do the entire course (one lap was about 700 yards), I was glad that I got used to open water and learned how to sight. I was comfortable, but very tired, by the time we got out of the water. I wanted to try the lap, but I was way too tired. So in one way, humiliating and humbling, but that was outweighed by learning so much.

Here's the knowledge I picked up yesterday:

Sighting (based on my discussions with the kayaker, who was the coach for the tri group doing the OWS) - take 10 strokes, pull your head out of the water and look straight ahead for four strokes, and then repeat. Do not let your head move along with your body's natural motion - you won't be able to get a bead on your target. The position - head straight up while you're trying to swim - will be uncomfortable. Any more strokes than that - based on what I was doing yesterday - will just take you further off course, and you'll have to expend more energy to get back on course.

You will expend a heck of a lot more energy to go a shorter distance than you would in a pool.

Swallowing water stinks and will take you out of your flow.

Visibility is far worse than in a pool, and you won't see someone unless they're right up on you.

If time permits, I'm going to make the four hour round-trip drive to do another OWS before my tri on the 22nd. Now that I have this information, and know what it's like to be out in open water, I wanna actually do a circuit of something.

Edited by stump312 2007-07-09 6:11 AM
2007-07-10 4:25 PM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL

Hi Everyone,

Sorry I sort of dropped off the radar but got a chance to go to Ohio to see my new granddaughter and couldn't pass it up.  She is AWESOME!  She's 6 weeks old and the cutest thing I've ever seen.  Its a long story but she is really a miracle and we were thrilled to get to go see her.  I did some pitiful training attempts while up there but was so busy playing with Brooke and seeing friends and family that it just wasn't a priority.

Gosh, ya'll have been having a time with the water stuff.  Doug - I wish you could spread the water around the rest of the country.  Ohio and our part of Florida are DRY!  Too bad about all your training and then they cancel the swim portion - bummer.

Chris - I am absolutely amazed at you doing an OWS never having had actually been in water over your head to swim in.  You did an awesome job and I bet next time you'll be much more confident.  I think you're right about trying another one though before the race if at all possible, just so you can get that confidence thing going on before the actual race.  I love to see people challenging themselves in ways like this - it inspires me!

Keep up the good work everyone.  I was totally away from a computer for 7 days and I'm in withdrawal from it as well as my training.  Can't wait to get back out there!!!



2007-07-11 10:17 AM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL

Oh the first time OWS woes.  I know them, too.  All I can say is that it's great you got out there and to keep doing it.  Each time gets better and you get a bit smarter about how to swim in it.  I'll even go out even if windy and wavy just for the practice. 

I'm up to taking more freestyle strokes than breast strokes.  It used to be a negative ratio.  I still use the breast stroke for sighting, rest and deep breath, but then I plunge back in and try to make a lot of TI strokes before popping up again.  I'm working on the sighting while freestyling, but it's still really hard.  But, I haven't hung off a kayak yet this year.  Also, I haven't had any panic attacks either this year.  Bottom line, you do what you have to do to get around the course and with practice it gets better.  Also, remember, you can generally make up whatever time you "lost" in a slow swim on the bike.

Thanks for the nice comments on my race report.  As for the jelly beans, they're still unopened, but I'll probably eat them this weekend at El Scorcho (a crazy midnight 25k we're doing).

2007-07-12 7:41 AM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL
Good luck at the Scorcho - the idea of a midnight run sounds like fun. I'll let everyone know how the second crack at the OWS goes. I'm already a little anxious, and I won't be in the lake for another 11 hours.
2007-07-12 8:30 PM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL
Second OWS - much better. Took a little to get going, but once I did, went great. Check out my log for a little more detail.
2007-07-13 3:05 PM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL

Don't know if it was solo or in a group, but that, too, changes the dynamics.  Get in a group OWS if at all possible.

Glad No. 2 went better. 

2007-07-14 9:24 PM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL
220-age, the truth
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...

I'm not sure how to link to it directly, but it's worth the read if anyone has not done so yet.


2007-07-16 10:03 AM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL
El Scorcho rocked!  See my race report!  15.5 miles.  Never thought I could do that a year ago.
2007-07-16 3:33 PM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL

Congrats Doug on the El Scorcho.  That sounds like a really cool race.  Glad you enjoyed it so much.

Frank - thanks for the link to the HR link.  I had seen that before and then couldn't find it.  I finally picked up a HRM and am still trying to figure out where my HR is supposed to be for optimum training.  Its fun just watching it as I work out.  The link is very informative and some of it seems way over my head....

2007-07-19 7:31 PM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL
How abouts an update from everybody on how it's going this season so far?
I looks like everybody's having a great season.
2007-07-20 10:27 AM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL

This is a great idea.  I'm pleased with my season.  I'll be doing my second tri on Sunday and when I first started training I didn't think that I'd be ready to race until early September. 

With the exception of a three week break for a busy time at work and then vacation I've been training consistently since early January.  I'm in the best shape of my life and I've lost 45 lbs. I really can't ask for more.

Hmmm, there is not really any more to it w/o repeating what's in my daily logs.

How's everyone else enjoying their season?

2007-07-23 10:21 AM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL
I'd have to say that my season's going pretty well now that I'm officially a triathlete after yesterday. Not happy with how the run went - check the race log - but I beat my goals (a. finish. b. finish sub 1:49), and I was pleased with the swim and the bike - best times yet. Plus, I thought I was moving much faster through the transitions than I actually was.

While I haven't lost weight per se, there's definitely a re-allocation of the assets, so to speak. Now that the first one is under my belt, I'm going to start changing my diet and plan for the next one, which looks to be at the end of September. I am hoping to drop at least 10 pounds in the next two months, which should be fairly easy once I start tracking the foods. I am definitely in the best shape in terms of physical endurance of my life, and all of the training has really helped me mentally.

As for being addicted - I can't honestly say that I am addicted as of yet. That being said, I'm definitely doing another one because I know I can do so much better than what I did yesterday. I'm planning to do some running exercises with my trainer to improve my speed, train harder on the bike, keep up on the swimming, and work on speeding up my transitions. Plus I'll join the USAT so I don't have to keep doling out $10 for one-day licenses.

Alright, so maybe I am addicted.


2007-07-23 11:06 AM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL
Congrats on the race Doug! 15.5 miles! Woowhew thats a lot!

I've been pretty quiet on the boards for a while, but I wanted to say hi. I finished my first tri of the season a few weeks ago and did pretty well. The swim is what killed me, but I did as expected on the bike and better than expected on the run, so I was proud of finishing strong. I've been working on the swimming since then and I think its improved already.
My next one is Chicago coming up in about a month. I'm nervous about it and I hear its a madhouse, but I've been working my tail off so hopefully it will all pay off. My goal is to just finish Chi this year and then I'll have times to beat for next year.
Hope everyone is well and good luck on all the upcoming races!
Take care,
Megan
2007-07-24 10:10 AM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL

Congrats to our newly inagurated triathletes!  Keep up the good work.  I'll contribute more when things slow down a bit.

db

2007-07-24 8:52 PM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL

Frank - thanks for inviting us to give updates.  You guys are such an inspiration to me!  Here's where I'm at and I'm in need of encouragement:

I had a great first 6 months and accomplished my goal of running a tri before I turned 50 on 5/29 (as well as meeting some smaller goals as well).  Then I started putting pressure on myself to excel and get better.  A friend of mine who is a seasoned triathlete (Iron Man type) told me that the real way to get better is to excel on the bike.  So, I set out to do just that.  I have biked with a group in the past on Tues, Thur and Sat and they do anywhere from 30-45 miles per night.  They keep inviting me to ride with them and they'll hang back if I drop but here's my real problem (true confessions here).  I'm scared.  I'll kill myself trying to keep up and then I won't enjoy it any more.  Worse yet the group keeps having wrecks.  One lady died after I started riding with them cuz she ran a stop sign and hit a car that also ran a 4-way stop.  Just recently 2 friends of mine crashed and one is out of the hospital but had 2 cerebral bleeds and they don't know if he'll ever be right.  He's in rehab and his life is changed forever.  The other broke a rib, punctured a lung, his heart stopped 2x and now he is in rehab.  If I get hurt, we're SOL.  My husband owns his own business and since it is new, we're not bringing any money home from it.  I bring home the bacon and have all the benefits under me.  If something happens to me we're up sh_t creek without a paddle.  I've also been feeling bad about not putting enough effort into my work (taking time off to go for a swim, coming in late cuz I ran in the morning, etc.) AND about not spending enough time with my mom who is in a local nursing home.  While my husband is all for me training, six months has now become a "long time" for him and he is wondering how much longer this is going to go on.  I, on the other hand,  feel like its a lifestyle.  He thought it was a fad.  A dilemma.

I say all this not for sympathy, but for you all to kick me in the butt and/or encourage me to keep on keeping on.  I have made extra provision to workout so that it doesn't affect my family life and I know that even if I quit training, I won't devote more time to my mom or my work (I put in plenty of hours without having to worry about not working hard enough).  I also know that worrying about wrecking on my bike is just giving in to fear.  I love training, I feel better than I ever have and I don't want to stop. 

Do ya'll have any words of wisdom?  Have any of you gone thru anything similar?  Help!  Meanwhile, I'm going for a run in the morning )!

2007-07-25 7:17 AM
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Subject: RE: MarkQuiet's group - FULL
T -

I'm petrified about wrecking on my bike on the open road as well - aside from the tri and the night before, I have not yet ridden on the open road. I am planning on joining a bike club here as well and just going for it. Do not give in to fear - ride defensively, make sure you are 100% aware of your surroundings, and I would think you would be ok - especially biking in a pack. Maybe suggest the idea that the bikers in the club take turns driving a support vehicle to provide a non-biking set of eyes? Get out there - just be defensive.

As for your husband - I would just make sure he realizes this is not a fad, but a LIFE CHANGE. I am sure he loves you, and he will adjust. By the same token, there are times when training will have to take a back seat for a while - we have all seen it when people have vanished from their logs for a few weeks. It's not like we're getting paid to be triathletes. When that happens, just make sure to come back.
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