GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 211)

This is the last time for tonight, I promise!

I forgot to mention that the winds were not bad - pretty much what they forcasted - 10 NW.  

This is the first time I swam in a river and it was 750 meters with quite a strong current.   I didn't really 'feel' it when I entered the channel, but when I would sight, I said - my gosh, I haven't gone far.  

I really enjoyed going off in the first wave with the elites and younger people.   I was rounding the first turn at about 600 meters before I saw the first cap of the 2nd wave; then about 1300 meters before I saw a cap from the 3rd wave.   People were spread out all over the lake and the river.   There weren't any buoys in the river.   I was pretty good about staying in line with the exit buoy.   I got wacked a couple of times; once in the mouth enough to cause some swelling but it was OK and he apologized.  

Have a great night, everybody.

Thank god for small mercies!!

I got home late alst night after being gone for much of the day, NEEDING to check on Anne from Muskoka, and Jess (other group) from NJ State Tri, and about seven people doing Ironman Lake Placid --- AND I COULDN'T GET ON INTERNET. ARGGGGGHHHHHH!

But, hey - it's all okay this morning, so here I am and here I go!

Onwards!

TRACEY -

Great report, and sounds like another good dose of Things Learned -- which is a large part of what the first however-many races are all about.

First, while it may be the decent and charitable thing to do to assume that RDs have measured their swim courses correctly, it more often than not seems to be the opposite. No, that's not fair; maybe 1 in 4 is mismeasured by a fair bit. Tupper Lake was like that way for me, and it sure sounds as if Whaling was similar. And yout lines of evidence are good ones -- looking at the timesa and pace for the best swimmers, and looking at your own pace. Whenever that is more than 40 seconds/100m more than waht my basic pace is, I know that the course has been mismeasured. Chop and congestion can be put into the equation, but they have to be pretty severe to throw me off my game significantly. Still, you made it, and if it was indeed overlong, then that should put you in an even better frame of mind for Timberman. That is one good thing about overlong swims, that they show you how you can stretch yourself when necessary.

Second, the race belt. Were it me that that happened to, i would've just hung it around my neck on the fly rather than take the time to get it where it is meant to go. Some races say that want the bib on at all times, others say that it needs to be only during the run. I really feel that it doesn't matter a whole lot to the RDs, but if there wasn't a separate number to be put on your bike at Whaling, then they probably do want to have it on you for the bike. But, yeah -- I would've just draped it over me somehow.

Third, yay for Pam! That's something that was never taught in home ec classes, huh?

Fourth, good overall bike and swim placements!!!! Those are improvements over Escape, yes? At any rate, they're just plain fine on their own!

Fifth, I hear you on the heat! And while there are ways to try to work around this (I'll mention the obvious ones later), the fact is that depending on the person, heat can exact varying degrees of toll when running. Add to that the cumulative effects of swimming and cycling and transitioning, and it can make for tough runs in triathlons. But again -- you did it, and even with that cruel little trek down the pier!

What was your in-race nutrition, from maybe just before the swim? Did you hydrate okay while on the bike?

Onwards to Timberman!!!!!

ANNE -

GREAT results, and I can see why you're pleased and then some with how it went. I love the data you accumulated with the 5km splits, and before too long I will crunch my way through them, trying to use the profile map to help me. That was a brilliant thing for you two to do, especially if you already believe that it highlights areas at which you need more work. Three cheers for Geekdom!

I've heard that the swim upriver can be tough there, and I guess you found that to be the case. I think I have done one river-current swim, and in general would not go out of my way to choose another. It definitely is nice when the buoys come at you at the rate you hope for!

I'm giving you the 26.0, for the reason you stated. Congrats! As for the OAT official helping you just that little bit, I think that is okay. Racers can help each other, and on-course bike-help cars can help, and I think officials can too. It just becomes an issue when the help comes from outside sources -- family, friends, groupies.

Really fine overall placements, especially for the bike! I know the swoim one was just about the same, but the bike is where you have put your energies and it is very nice to see that pay off for you!

I will get to those numbers and the Muskoka profile as soon as I can, even though I realize that you will have been over them with a fine-toothed comb yourself by then. We'll just have to see how our interpretations differ!

Fine race, Anne, and I'm glad that the winds were okay for you. As I said yesterday, i was very relieved to see that what was happening there didn't seem to be as onerous as what was going on here --- and I'm happy for you that it actually turned out that way! Whew!

Thanks Steve.  

Forgot to tell you I almost got DQ'd before the race even started.   I CANNOT believe I did this.   The mount line was on a slight incline going right into a steepish climb out of transition so I wanted to practice my mount and dismount.   When we watched the sprint race the day before you would  not believe how many people had their bikes in the hardest gears and were falling and struggling terribly.   Anyway, off I went and did it 2-3 times and on the last one the OAT official says 'you know that's grounds for disqualification' with a semi-smile on his face.   I've seen him often and he has always been nice to me although he can be really mean.   He let me go after riding me a bit.   I still cannot believe I did that.

I haven't been able to think about yesterday much because I have been busy planning meals for our canoe trip this Thursday and also the VT/NY trip.

Are you familiar with either Smugglers' Notch State Park or Underhill State Park in VT?   We have everything else booked - just need 2 nights for after the race.    Did you say something about cycling around Mansfield?   Right now we are looking at cycling Placid (part of it) on the Wed after the race. 

We have a park booked near the Timberman race and also near another tri (Oly) I think in Lake Cayuga? 

We are now leaving on the Wednesday prior and driving part way, coming towards Kingston.   We have booked 2 nights at Branbury St Park for the Thursday/Friday nights.   Think I would like to cycle part of the course on Thursday. 

Back to you soon with more info.

SteveB:

Good advice about the race belt. But now that I made that mistake, I doubt I'll ever forget to put it on again! I did briefly consider fiddling with the thing somehow while I was riding, but was too afraid that I'd fall over in the process and/or lose it in the wind. So yes, I had to stop, unclip, etc etc... losing time of course.

Going back to my placements on the swim and bike for Escape, I was 359/433 and 346/433 respectively. For Whaling City I was 219/257 for both. That means, if I'm doing my math correctly, I was in the 17th and 20th percentiles for swim and bike at Escape, and for Whaling City I was in the 15th percentile for both. And since I'm on the percentile kick, my overall percentile for Escape was 6th and for Whaling City was 5th. So if we're looking strictly at percentiles, I actually did slightly worse at Whaling City!

I actually prefer to compare to past races though by looking at paces. But even using that method, Escape was still the better race for me. I'm attributing it to the heat. And perhaps to not training quite as much as I had hoped.

I was looking over my race report for Whaling City and realized it sounds so negative! I did actually have a good time, but I admit I have a few of those "why am I doing this?" moments during the run.

As for nutrition/hydration, I didn't really have any race nutrition. I just had my usual coffee/breakfast around 5:30 in the morning, and then drank about 16 ounces of water for 30 minutes prior to the start. I also hydrated while on the bike (about another 16 ounces) and took advantage of the 3 water stations during the run. I find that I don't seem to really need fuel for workouts less than 2 hours. I guess it kind of seems unnecessary? But maybe as an experiment I should try some gels or Clif Blocks or something to see if that gives me any sort of boost. Come to think of it, I did chug down some N.O. Xplode blue raspberry drink prior to Escape... Hmm, maybe that made a difference? Might not be a bad idea to try it again for Timberman.

ANNE -

I'm trying hard to picture the potential DQ situation, but I'm not getting it. Can you try one more time??

Mount Mansfield is supposed to be a great hike, but I haven't heard anything about it as a cycling mecca. But in that area of VT, I suspect challenging and beautiful rides abound!

Is the place near the Timberman course Gunstock, by any chance? There is a very sweet loop there, Breezy Knoll. If you're in there already, ask specifically for site 10. 9, 11, 12, and 13 also look nice, but I've only stayed in 10 - twice! The only drawback to Breezy Knoll is tat it involves a drive down to the comfort station, either that or a 10-minute walk. The comfort/toilet/shower facilities are second to none -- thay muct clean them hourly, 24/7!

Along with still having to piece together your Muskoka data, I now need to piece together your VT plans; know where I can find a decent speadsheet?

I have some decisions to make about if I will pre-ride the course at any point and to what degree, but I'll save the details on that until tomorrow or Wednesday. (It has to do with other races between now and then.)

TRACEY -

Okay, we are NOT using percentiles as evaluatory devices! (And the same goes for paces! )

Truth is, be it training gaining or racing improvements, none of it is linear; if it were, we would all be Olympic or world-class calibre in no time flat! While we all hope that each effort will be better than the ones before it, it just doesn't work that way -- or at least not consistently. If you suspect that your training was not as complete as before Escape, that's one very likley reason right there. And if you factor in the heat, that is a VERY probable reaon for a not-as-desired performance. But seriously (even more seriously....), try not to forget that gains are not linear, as that will save you a lot of self-flagellation as you continue through this stuff!

Be careful what you say about never repeating the same mistake twice! It may just be that I'm a slow learner......but there are lots of instances in which I have made the same mistake twice.....thrice.....and......??

And here's a race belt story that I hope NEVER happens to you or anybody else I care about!

My pattern is to alwaysalwaysALWAYS have on my race belt under my wetsuit. I started doing this in maybe '04, and I don't think I ever missed a time -- until MightyMan Montauk Half-Iron, last October. I got yakking in t-zone, and just forgot. I realized it right when I got to the water, and by then it was too late. So I did the swim, got to T1, went to secure the belt........and it fell apart in my hands. One end had come undone from the doohickey that it threads through, and I spent at least a minute trying to rethread it -- couldn't do it. So I left it there, figuring that so,metime during the 56-mile ride I could figure it out in my head. Firty-six miles later I got back to T2, tried it.....and STILL couldn't make it work. So I just headed out on the run, race belt in hand -- which shows in my race photos. The good news is that within a mile, while running, I finally figured out how to thread it, and that was that. But between T1 and T2 struggles, I lost about thee minutes of time. Grrrrrr! Normally my transition times are great, but on that day they sucked. One reason I will liklely do MightyMan again is to have another crack at decent transitions! My race time was 5:23 which pleased me on a tough course, but I could've gone 5:20 or amu=ybe under without that kerfuffle. Grrrrr again!

Lynn is evicting me from the computer. Bye!

ANNE again -

Still trying to figure it out, but are you saying that before the race began you were practicing it and he told you it wasn't allowed? I thought that stuff was all okay, unless the rules for that specific race say that once a bike is in transition it can't leave until the actual bike leg begins. So unless Trisport specifies that (or amybe it's a OAT rule across the board?) fro Muskoka, I would figue it would be okay. Shows what i know, i guess!

TRACEY again -

I think as a general rule that 90 minutes is the upper limit for racing without supplemental nutrition - i.e., more carbohydrates and some electrolytes such as sodium and potassium; maybe a touch of magnesium as well. So, soon, let's talk about a nutrition plan that goes beyond just water. Even a sports drink on the bike will help, but a gel or chomps or something carb-intensive would even be better!







Edited by stevebradley 2010-07-27 7:13 AM

Hey all!

Sorry to be absent!

I went to Lake Placid this past weekend for the Ironman and volunteered, which was so awesome.  Had a freaking blast.

Actually, I had a little too much fun....

MANDY -

I'm intrigued -- what is that paper? Is that saying you signed up for next year's race?!?

I was there on Thursday, and got hit with the amazing race-week vibe. I passed on the chance to sign up yesterday, mostly because of......well, many reasons. If you did NOT sign up for next year, i will tell you all about them!

And who is that person in the photo with you?

I'm SORRY!!!  I forgot the most important detail - I didn't have my helmet on.    And apparently you must have it on when riding your bike even before the race starts.  

TRACEY once more -

Even though "again" and "once more" have been separated by some passing time, it's all part of a continuum (in least in my head!)

YES -- your reasons will be improved by geting some decent carbohydrates into you both befoe and during the race!!!!!! The carbs will give you some better energy to draw from, and beyond that you'll just finish the race feeling better overall. You should aim for a gel before the swim, a bottle of decent energy drink during the bike, and a gel before heading out on the run. But DEFINITELY play around with all of this between now and Timberman. Think about trying a gel before every workout you so, just to get your system used to how they taste (and for some people, texture is an issue also[it is for me, to some degree; I don't like thick ones]). I will tell you what I think of the various gels, if you want. If so, just let me know!

STEVEB,

So here is what we have planned for VT.

We are leaving here Wed the 25th early afternoon and driving to maybe Kingston.  We are staying 2 nights in Branbury St. Park, the 26/27th.   Won't do much on the 26th when we get to the park - maybe explore.   Would like to bike part of the course on FRIDAY, late morning or early afternoon??   On Saturday night we are staying at the B&B which is about 10 minutes from race site.   I would like to maybe swim a bit on Saturday and other than that rest up, and plan to try their pre-race supper.  

After the race, we are heading up towards Stowe and staying 2 nights (29/30th) either at Underhill or Smugglers Notch St Park.   Need to book that today.  I can't decide which one to go with.    We plan to hike and explore there Monday and Tuesday morning and head to Lake Placid.   We have booked Meadowbrook for Tues/Wed and will either head south on Thursday or stay another day around Placid.   Plan was to bike part of the Placid route on Wed.   Figured we would be rested enough by then.  

Don't remember the name of the park we have booked for the Fri/Sat nights, but it is not the one you mentioned.   I know it is a smaller park with about 75 sites.   There is a big one on Geneva that we shyed away from because it had over 300 sites and looked pretty open. 

Hope this info helps.    We are both very excited about this trip and spending time with you, and want to thank you so much for suggesting the race.   Everything seems to have fallen into place so perfectly.  

TRACEY,

I agree with Steve 100% on what he is telling saying about forgetting percentiles and paces and also about nutrition.  

I had one of my best races ever on Sunday with both the swim and the bike but if you look at the results and started comparing to previous races, there is no way you would know that.    

My last few races I have changed my nutrition during the race, following Steve's suggestions right down to the timing of it, and have noticed a big difference.    

That would be that I DID sign up for IMLP 2011.  I don't want to hear a thing about why you didn't!! BUT I wish I knew you were there I would have found you!

That is just a friend of mine, Jon (not my John, someone else's Jon) who signed up too.  We will be motivating each other!

Cheers!

GO MANDY!!!   You DO love a challenge.  

Mandy,

Wow! That's exciting! I suppose your training program starts tomorrow.

Denise

Anne,

I'm envious of your vacation.  My husband won't camp or bike or swim or any of that stuff. Poor me.
Maybe I should look for one of those womens' "Outward Bound" (or whatever they're called) groups.

Denise

Tracey,

I had always heard that you don't need any nutrition for a sprint.  However, I'm beginning to think that's not necessarily true (like the others said).  My 2 worst tri runs were when I didn't take a gel before the run.  At 1st, I had blamed my poor running on the heat (which, for sure, is a factor) but my last tri was quite hot but I took a gel before the run and had my best tri run pace.

Denise

SteveB,

I've been trying to estimate how much you spend each year on triathlons - fees, hotels, gas, equipment.
You don't have to say - I can estimate that it is a quite significant amount.

Denise

Hmm, you're all convincing me that I need to re-think my attitude on not needing nutrition for sprints!

Steve, I'll definitely experiment with some gels and energy drinks. My husband has a ton of them laying around because he occasionally uses them for his longer mountain bike rides. In fact, I have a bike/run brick on Thursday (1 hour) so maybe I'll plan to do a gel before the ride, then hydrate with the energy drink during it.

I'll let you know how it goes, and which gel I use. I'd also love to hear which gels/drinks you prefer since I really have no experience with them. (Others feel free to chime in as well!) I mentioned that I used N.O. Xplode before Escape - do you know anything about these nitric oxide drinks? The skeptic in me sees the ingredients and notices the fairly large dose of caffeine. So I tend to think that the boost you get comes from that. But I'm curious if you have an opinion.

Thanks!

Tracey