GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 212)

Steve:

I knew you would scold me for using percentiles! :D

Okay, I'll accept that gains are not linear and I totally get that. But, if we're not using paces either to gauge improvement, then how DO we evaluate our progress? Is it just how we feel we performed based on things like weather conditions, salt or freshwater swim, flatness or hilliness of the bike and run courses, etc? Or do you just compare the same race from season to season?

Anne:

You always have great vacations planned. If you ever make it to the Caribbean or some other fabulous place in the world, I'd love to hear your itinerary!

Tracey

Woo-hoo!!!!!  IMLP!!!!

Hey all, just stopping by to say "hey!"  Been flying under the radar a bit while I try to get my training back on track.  Seems like every weekend something is popping up - hopefully I can rally!

Just found out my bike has a recall on it - so, off the the bike shop to get the front fork replaced next week.  I'll be out of town next weekend, so I figure that's a good time to drop it off to get it done.  Something about the steering tube cracking and such due to something with the fork...I dunno.  I'll just pretend I don't know about that while I'm riding this weekend!  LOL.

Hope everyone is doing well!

TRACEY and ANNE, thanks for the race reports.  Sounds like fun!  TRACEY, definitely sounds like the swim distance was off. Did you say a storm blew through the night before?  Maybe that moved the bouys some?

MANDY, woohoo IMLP!! 

LISA

DENISE -

Lynn used to badger me about how much I was spending, using a phrase similar to "spending more than you're making". I listened to her for a few years....but didn't really "hear". And then one day, maybe in '05 or '06, I calculated a previous season -- '04, I believe, the year I did IMLP (and a couple other higher-end races). The short of it is that I was floored by exactly how much I DID spend, and that calculation was just for the races and their immediate costs -- food, lodging, gas. That is, there was nothing about gear and all.

So, since then, I have tried to be somewhat wiser.......but for me that doesn't go too far for too long. Mostly, I now try to race a bit less, and not enter the real pricey ones, and try to make sure that what I register for I actually end up DOING. As sorely as I was tempted by IMLP, being that it is only 2.5 hours from home, I cannot take the chance of paying $600 now and then bailing on it due to an injury or something. And even if I make it to race day injury-free, there is always the kicker of most accoms in the LP area having 3- or 4-day limits to the stay. That's just too rich for my blood these days. At some point I am sure I WILL do IMLP again, probably in '14 when I hit 65, but now it just doesn't seem the wise thing to do. If I had it in mind that I wanted to go to Kona, that would be different, but convincing Lynn that that is a valid way to spend our vacation money ---- that isn't going to happen. So, without the lure of qualifying for and going to Kona, for me there's no huge reason to do a M-dot race.

Just as an aside of sorts, what is good about a few of the North American M-dots (Louisville, Wisconsin, Florida, Arizona) is that they are in big enough areas so that at least people don't have to get hooked into 3- or 4-day hotels. But for Placid and Couer d'Alene and Canada (Penticton, BC), there's not a whole lot happening there on those particular weekends, so the lodgings can get away with snaring people for a few days at strangulation rates. (And MANDY, if you are reading this, don't panic -- there are ways and places to get around the exorbitant costs of lodging at IMLP!!)

So, ANYHOW, I am trying to be wiser about my triathlon expenses ---- but it's a work-in-progress! .....








Edited by stevebradley 2010-07-28 7:11 AM

TRACEY -

No, no --- no scolding at all! I use those devices (%, pace) frequently, but viewed blindly they just don't say much. There are just so many variables that can compromise them, that they are almost like buying a new car and driving it off the lot and having it depreciate in value almsot immediately.

In truth, I use % and pace most of the time, but for me at this point they really just become another sample in a very big picture. I guess thta's how statistics become valid, once the sample size starts to get big enough to actually be representative. For you, two races into your tri career, they can be viewed as indicators of general performance level....but you sure shouldn't lose sleep over them!

The big message from a day or two ago was the one about never forgetting that training and racing aren't linear, and that "bad" days or "off" days are very much a part of the landscape. Now, having said that, I WILL get slightly agitated today if the swim I am planning is not as fast as when I did it a few days ago.....as I will get agitated if my next run or ride is slower than what I think/hope it should/could be. I NEVER cease to not practice what I preach about this issue!!!!!

I think you are doing great. I can still remember back to your early swim-angst posts, and the ones in which you were just so tentative about racing AT ALL. Now, you've done two of them, and I get the feeling that if you were a single woman without any family commitments, you would be doing a whole lot more. In other words, you are up to the challenge and are no longer driven to cold sweats thinking about the propsect of the next race. So while you may still be wanting more from your performances, overall your confidence is dramatically elevated over where it was from Dec-May, say, and that speaks volumes for how hard you have worked and how much you have managed to put into the whole effort. That's how I see it, anyhow!






Edited by stevebradley 2010-07-28 7:12 AM

TRACEY again -

Yes! Play with the gels! HOWEVER --- if one makes you gag or turn green, don't give up on the whole concept of them; for many people they are an acquired tatse. I have been known to be a very finicky eater, but with gels I took to them pretty quickly.....so I like to think that if I can accept them, anybody can!

I prefer thin to thick, so as I see it the continuum for texture is:
CarbBoom!
PowerGel
Hammer Gel
Clif Shot
Gu

That's not to say that I won't do Gu (in fact, spent much of '08 using Gu), but rather that when the chips are down and the day is long and I'm having trouble accepting anything into my gut, thinner is better than thicker for me. BUT......probably the most commonly usd of all of the above are Gu, so obviously for a large mass of people the texture suits them just fine.

As for taste, it can be all over the board. While in my real life I love berry stuff, in gels that spectrum of flavors often doesn't work. And I'm a hard-core vanilla freak in real life, but - sadly!! - most vanilla gels don't work for me (or at least they don't thrill me).

One approach is to find a flavor that you think you like, and then buy that flavor in 2 or 3 or 4 different gels and knock yourself out doing taste tests. Most have a vanilla and a chocolate, so if in real life you can abide those flavors, then try them in gels.

Most gels will give you about 23-27g of carbohydrate per serving (which would be the whole packet), which will be a good boost for any race up to about 90 minutes in duration. Beyond that, heading into the two-hour range, a second one would help. So, one before the swim and one heading out on the run should cover you quite well.

One I didn't mention above is AccelGel, and I left that out because it palys by different rules - it uses a 4:1 carb:protein ratio. That has lots of advocates, but the downside for AccelGel is that the amount of carbs is reduced; I think it's now 15g per packet. Some would say that's fine, and others would say that it should be better and that you don't need the protein anyhow. But they deserve mention because they are easy to eat -- taste good and have a thin consistency. (Their chocolate is divine -- much like melted chocolate for a delicious fruit-and-chocolate fondue feast!! )

And while there is controversy on how much protein should be part of training and racing nutrition, there is also controversy about the role of caffeine. I am not familiar with the stuff you used before Escape, but if it is heavy in caffeine......uh, that might be okay? Many gels now boast caffeine in some of their varieties, and some even claim "2X caffeine". This trend is fairly recent, but it seems to be a clear respose to the arguments that at various levels caffeine can enhance performance.

The key for whatever you are using at this stage, and for sprints, is carbohydrates -- you will want that as your go-to energy source while on course. Beyond that, the other components (sodium, potassium, calcium, magensium, protein, amino acids, caffeine) become more debatable, and their importance will vary according to length of race and the temperature on the given day. But all of them have some sodium, which after the carbs is the next most important ingredient, so you're covered there too -- if the day is hot and/or you end up out on the course for much longer than you planned/hoped to be.

Okey-dokey?

STEVE -

Wow! A recall on a preformance bike -- that's kind of unique! What model and make do you have (I should know, but I've forgotten).

And I'm with you on riding it this weekend......and ignoring any potential problem. HOWEVER, if you end up doing a face-plant this weekend as a result of fork disintigrated or imploding, I will deny having given my tacit "approval" for you to ride it anyway!

MANDY -

Congrats on the sign-up! Correct me if I'm wrong, but di we not have a discussion about you maybe doing the volunteering and me telling you that volunteers got their own Preferred line for signing-up the next day? Because I seem to remember that conversation.....and seeing a very obvious glint in your eye at that prospect! (Or am I mistaking you for someone else? )

FWIW, I think you have the absolutely ideal attitude for doing this longer stuff -- HIM and IM. I could give you book and verse on why I think that, but for now I'll just say that in my two meetings with you, you have indicated many times that your mentality is just about perfect for undertaking those efforts. Just so you know!!

Yes, that has been on my radar for a while.  I had so much fun there volunteering. Were you there? Did I miss a chance to hang with the Groovetime legend? 

Thanks for saying that about the longer stuff.  I think mentally that is where I am at too. 

Heat is my issue, but I think in a race I will have access to water every mile or 2 to dump on my head. In marathons, that has worked for me and kept me going.  But I am running 5 miles at lunch in 90 degree heat, so I am trying to get over it. My big concern with IMLP is the swim - because I can't keep my swim fitness up in the winter.  I will ask you later (post Timberman) about your thoughts on that.  I plan on 2 pre-race assaults on Lake Placid next summer - in May and in June.  I want to know the course as well as I can.

Check out my blog for my hanging out report and some photos.

AND lastly - I am way behind in commenting on everyones awesome race reports and comments and stuff. Sorry. Work has been nuts.  Then fitting training in. You guys are all awesome and the best support crew ever.  I promise to have lots of funny good stuff to say soon.

Cheers,

Mandy

Just checking in to say hi and let you know that we are off to Algonquin for a canoe trip and returning on the 7th.   Won't have computer OR phone access after tomorrow noon.  It's been a busy three days getting this trip organized plus the VT/NY trip but we got it done.  It was a bit of a scramble getting 30 meals planned out and prepared or purchased.  Had to send Ken off to MEC on Monday morning.   I even managed to get the majority of the day's meals logged into BT - wanted to see if we were eating too much,  not enough, etc.    Turns out it is hard to keep the sodium and fat contents in line when using the freeze dried foods.  Also kind of low on the protein, which probably explains why we lose weight on these trips.   AND, one of the reasons we like to do at least one trip a year.   A great way to lose weight and have fun doing it.   

I finished my race report and loaded up some pictures Ken took.   Under Race Log - Muskoka.   

STEVE - will be getting some good OWS in while we are away - staying 3 days at Cauchon, 3 days at Cedar Lake and then 2 days at Cauchon again, with a day trip in the middle canoeing the Nippising. 

Once we are back, we are doing two 95km bike rides on 2 consecutive Mondays - the 9th and the 16th - both quite hilly, with one being much harder than the other.  One of the rides, probably the 16th will be a 2km swim/bike brick.   Have 2 other rides planned in both of those weeks and then will do the Orillia aqua/bike the Sunday prior to Vermont race.   Orillia is just a 750 meter swim and 33km bike.   You probably know the terrain.   Hopefully that will keep us in shape for Vermont.  

Hope everyone has a great week, no matter what you are doing!    Take care,

MANDY -

I'm probably going to feel compelled to say some more stuff about your mindset, so stay tuned for that!

If I have my hoistory correct, Lake Placid is plagued by deluges, if anything. I think it was terrible that way in '02, '03, '06, and '08 -- something like that. My year, '04, was deliciously clement -- never too warm, about five minutes of sprinkles at some point (was it the bike? I've forgotten!), and only moderate pesky winds, sporadically. I think there was one year in the past few where heat was an issue, but that's proven to be the exception rather than the rule. I guess elevation has most of everything to do with it. Mussleman, is Geneva, NY, two weeks before IMLP, is often beset with bad heat, butb head east to the Adirondacks and Presto! ---- relatively cool!

I was there on Thursday, arriving about 2:30, doing the expo (big disappointment, as I posted to Anne -- although I got my fix of Newton stuff AND at a sweet discount! ), and then hanging out with hooslisa, from the other group, who was there with her Reston, VA, tri team, Team FExy. She didn't do it this year, but volunteered and signed up for next year, too!

Want a date? Another date? Anytime next year (or this year, in the fall, if you want to start your studies early!) you want to do a ride< I'm game! It's only about 2.5 hours from home, so it's really easy for me to do a down-and-back, same day! I can do this multiple times, too, for rides, runs, whatever.

In '04 I stayed at the Hotel Saranac. this is in Saranac Lake, about 15-18 minutes from LP. It's a "century", heritage hotel that was on the skids several years ago, but was taken over by the Hotel Adiministration program at Paul Smiths College. So, it is run with great love and care by the students who are using it to make their mark as managers, chefs, whatever. The cost in '04 was much lower than the average place in LP, and the stay limit was maybe just two days. What is also good about it is that you can get from Saranac Lkae to LP using the secret little back road (i can tell you what that is), thus avoiding the usual Main Street congestion.

BOOK SOMETHING NOW!!! Tomorrow is not too soon. Search hard, and maybe even book a couple of places -- one close to the action if you have the funds and ant that level of ease and comfort, and maybe a secondary place a ways away (such as Hotel Saranac, or one of the little old rustic motels on the road approaching the actual village of Saranac Lake). Many people like the string of motels that are at about mile 1-2 of the run, between the village of LP and the horse show complex.

BOOK NOW!! DON'T WAIT!! You can always cancel and switch and mix'n'match and whatever else you want later --- but get that ace up your sleeve ASAP!

AANE -

My best advice to you is to eat what you want, and what works under the circumstances. I just cannot imagine you letting yourself go too much, and I'm sure that what you have planned is very close to ideal. It sounds as if you will be working hard while on this trip, so there should be no wait gain. And if protein seems to be absent, um, fish a lot....or club chipmunks...or throttle a blue-winged teal. Protein au natural!

Where will your ride on the 16th be? Sounds like a GREAT training effort!

I told you the other day that I have plans (amybe) for the Half vermont course, and it's this:

I will be doing the Double Tri of Fronhofer Tool Triathlon (Cambridge, NY) of Aug 7. That will bean oly at 7:30 and then a sprint at 2:00. As if that is not enough, I could slip right over the Lake Dunmore after FTT (it's probably only about 90 minutes driving away) and do lake Dunmore Tri the next day, the 8th. That's the oly on some of the same course as HV. Yeah, yeah, I know it's a kind of addled plan, but Lynn's away anyhow so I might as well play! Plus, it's getting on that course. Plus, if I do Triple-T Ohio next May, I will NEED some of that kind of training. Plus, aht's worse -- doing 1.2 miles and 56 miles and 13.1 miles on one day....or doing 2.3 miles and 65.5 miles and 15.5 miles over two days. And with ample time to eat squarely and sleep soundly between some of those efforts! Nuthin' to it!

I will now head off to the Muskoka report and photos!





Edited by stevebradley 2010-07-28 9:23 PM

STEVE B-

It is a date! Next year I plan on going twice to LP pre-race.  I think once in May and once in June...I will stay at a campground those times for sure, which is what I did this time. 

I was told to get my bookings early - so I have a place booked to stay (Lake Placid Summit Hotel) but am looking for an alternative because..cough cough...holy crap! I think with mom I need to stay close to town & the Olympic center as possible because she isn't super mobile, and when I am on the bike for like, 7 hours, I want it easy for her to chill somewhere...COSTLY!  LP will be my only race in 2011, although I am considering Mooseman HIM or something like it for a good check on my progress....but I might have to take up a collection.....stick Bailey on a corner with some dark glasses and a tin cup..."Collecting for my mother's tri addiction"  HA  He is doing better BTW, not sure what was going on but he is much improved.

An aside, it was 7 hours for me to get to LP from my house, and my butt hurt from sitting in my TRUCK taht long ha!  SO PLEASE, tell me about my mind set, I am curious!  I think it might involve stubborn, bull headed, yet positive? Ha ha

Cheers,
Mandy

MANDY -

What - no Pirate??

Curiously, I was thinking about Mooseman last night. It came about as a side-thought to Triple-T Ohio, which is two weeks before it. TTT is about $200, and for that you get a super-sprint on Friday night, two olympics on Saturday, and a half-iron on Sunday. It is a killer/wicked/brutal/mega-hilly course, and the race has an epic reputation with tons of camaraderie as part of the deal. I've been tempted for several years. And then I thought thta for just a bit more money, and for something a whole lot closer, I could suffer to some degree at Moosey, which as I think I told you I have a history with but haven't done (either distance) in a few years.

ANYHOW, that's where Mooseman entered my thoughts. A couple weeks after Moosey is Patriots, down in MA, and I wonder if www.racevermont.com will give another shot at the half-iron that they pulled the plug on, around June 20. This was to be the first year for it, but I think they threw it into their mix fairly late, and then cancelled it in late May. A third option is to do Tupper Lake, June 26 or so......but there's that long drive again. The advantage to all of the above over Mooseman is race cost, as Moosey is pretty pricey, but then once you start adding in gas and lodging and the basic wear and tear, there's arguments to be made for paying more for the race itself and less for the ancillary costs.

Which campground did you stay at? When I did IMLP I arrived on Thursday and spent that night in a campground about 2/3 of the way between Placid and Wilmington. I think it was state-run, and is quite small, and worked well. It is right next to the highway, but up above it by enough so that night traffic was not a problem; most people use the Keene road anyhow, as it's quicker to get to 87.

Your mom will have a ball there! The swimmers start coming out of the water at about 50 minutes, and will continue doing so for another hour plus. The it's time to grab a snack or coffee somewhere, come back, pick a corner near the post office, perhaps, and start watching hours and hours and hours of cyclists stream by. Once that gets boring, wander down to in front of the North Elba Twon Hall, and catch the runners heading out on the run.....and struggling up that dirty stinker of a misrerable hill.....and coming around the corner heading out on the second loop. Wheeeeeee!

As for your recon trips......
I doubt it helps much, but if it seemed to save time to come up through Sherbrooke and over past Montreal, we're 90 minutes west of there and you could stay with us as a sort of way station before heading down to LP the next day. Keep that in mind, anyhow!

Good news about Bailey's recovery --- right in time to start prepping for his duty as panhandler for your cause! If he's on a corner I'm walking past, I'd sure enough drop some money in the tin cup!

Well, I have to do Pirate Steve!

I will figure out what works for LP - I definitely want to do a ride of the course with you or two!  I think I would set it up so I swim the course & ride the course one day, run the next & go home...  OR something like that.  I don't know, whatever works.

FOCUS Mandy.  Timberman.

MANDY -

Good point. Focus. Timberman!

Having said that, I think I know exactly what you are feeling; when you sign up for that first IM, everything changes. The earth wobbles a bit on its axis, and at least for awhile everything is viewed through iron-colored glasses. You'll probably have trouble with focus for a while, so don't feel bad; just ride with as best you can!

One problem with an earlyish swim-hopeful recon at Olacid is that Mirror Lake can be brutally cold into June. I tried it in '05 on about June 2, and I lasted less than a minute. (NOPE! Just checked back through my logs and it was (1) May 28, and (2) 3 minutes and 6 seconds. ) But that might've been just that year that was so wicked. (Although Moosey HIM the following week was also a frigid swim.)

ANYHOW --- Timberman!



Fo-CUS! TIM-ber-man!!!

WORD ASSOCIATION FOR MANDY ----



Winnipesaukee

Leavitt Road

Marsh Hill Monstah

Laconia

Scenic Drive

Belmont

Ellacoya

White Mountains

New Hampshire












Edited by stevebradley 2010-07-29 8:02 AM

HA! Don't forget Frank & Beans!  I mean Frank Bean road.  And Mirror Lake.  Oh, whoops.

Ok you guys - you have all this tremendous stuff planned - I'm not sitting on my duff either.
Just looked at my schedule and I have either a sprint or 5k every weekend for the next 5 weeks and then I'm done (I think) for this season.

Saturday, July 31, 9am
"Chase the Police" Sprint Triathlon
1/4 swim, 17 bike (changed from 16), 2.4 run
Walker,MN

I'm doing this one for fun only - not nervous at all.  It's only 30 min from me.  The turn bouys are an inflatable fire truck and squad car.  Fun!  This is a brand new tri so I can't check last year's results but I'm thinking with the short swim and run, this will attract at least a few "slower" racers - BUT - watch - the one time I'm not nervous about coming in last, I probably will - haha.

Denise

Mandy,

If you were rich, maybe you could buy one of those "endless pools".  Winter training is tough.  At least I have a YMCA pool 30 min away which isn't too bad.

Denise

Steve,

Have you given any thought to what you would replace triathlons with, when/if you can't do them anymore.  Although, I suspect you just plan on dropping dead at age 95 during the run portion of a tri.
I don't know how I would motivate myself to exercise if I didn't have races.

Denise

Hey all,

Been busy so I have not posted much but have been meaning too...

Who has a bike trainer?
What do you have (fluid or magnetic)?
Any recommendations?

Looking on Craigslist and there a few options for good priced units. I might just get a fluid and magnetic then decide in the fall which I like...

MANDY -

BAD Mirror Lake! BAAAAAD!