GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 218)

TRACEY -

Excellent perspective on swimming -- that throwing in different strokes periodically will help with your overall comfort in the ater, which will help you be a better swimmer in the future. So true.

My former coach, Erik, used to regularly prescribe different strokes as part of my cool-down. I don't think he ever phrased it the way you have, but he certainly could have.

I have a few race t-shirts where the swimmer depicted is doing the butterfly, and they are ones I won't wear on principle alone. I have seen people backstroking and breaststroking in races, but NEVER butterfly.

Even worse, on the old Training Diary that was published by Inside Triathlon, the only thing on the cover in the 2004 or 2005 edition was two people doing the butterfly. Where in the world was the editor for that turkey? Good grief!

TRACEY again -

That post on fueling for shorter distances is on page 267, and is the fourth post from the top -- just in case you didn't see it yet!

ANNE, thanks for sharing the pictures ... looks beautiful, and like DENISE, I am envious (probably more so than her because I know she has pretty lakes, etc to look at!!).  I love the picture of the fog over the water.  The last picture looks to be some rough weather blowing in.  I'm sure you had a great time!

STEVE B, on a geekiness scale, I'm not sure where your helmet swapping would fit.  Scary that they would melt in the sun ... yikes!!

MANDY, I can't do any of those drinks either ... I try, but they make me gag!  Not only are they too sweet but I find them to taste too salty, as well.  Not that I have to worry too much for my little sprint races.

DENISE, what are your plans for the weekend?

So, it seems that everyone has checked in except for STEVE A ... now where has he gone?

LISA

DENISE -

I'll put on my thinking cao and try to figure out the good years. They used to have brief descriptions of each year, and if that's the case then look for one about the "diaper crawl" ( the not very kind term used for the Ingraham-Welch finish), and one that mentions Paula Newby-Fraser's collaps with less than a mile to go from thr finish. i will try to remember some other goodies.

I should go tere too and see what they have for Ironamn Couer d'Alene -- which, although I am permanently agitated by WTC and M-dot, i am tempted to enter. Maybe even for next year, as it hasn't filled yet (but is about 87% of the way).

ANNE -

The first coach I had was way back in 2001, and was one of the stable of coach's through Troy Jacobsen's (the Spinervals guy) Triathlon Academy. I was only in my second year of triathlon, and didn't know much about anything. But it was affordable, and seemed like a good idea at the time.

I can't remember the exact circumstances, maybe it was an injury, and I wrote to her (my coach) and as usual she responded quite nicely. But the next block of workouts came in, and they were written as if nothing at all was wrong with me. it took me a while, but i relaized that even though I was getting some one-on-one comments from her, the workouts were "cookie-cutter". And shortly afterwards I quit the program.

With Erik, he listened to EVERYTHING I said and made adjustemnet saccordingly. I f soemthing went wrong midway througbh a given three-week block of workouts, he would amend the final week or so to reflect whatever as wrong with me. It was a lot of trial-and-error working out the specifics of my own training needs and particular circumstances, and it was through that process that we discovered that I benefit from more generous tapers than many programs might endorse.

Which was the whole point of the three paragraphs above, that too often we become slaves to "published" programs that are aimed at some wide, undefined median. They are good - sometimes even great - for many people, but there are many others who just get "dropped" by the program, or run into aspects that just don't work for their particular needs. So, what Harry said was very true!

I also try to remember that nothing ever really stays the same, that what has been "tried-and-true" for a while will, at some point, collapse like a bedouin tent. I find this especially true about my nutrition protocol, which is often capricious at best. But the same could be said for tapers, in that what worked this time well bomb the next time. It always helps to be adaptable!!

ANNE again -

Yeah, I think I obsess about my results. That's the big motivator behind racing in the states, just the shameless chase for those USAT rankings points!

But I also get hung up on the competitiveness, and as I have said before, thre have been times when I have just grown weary of "putting on my game face". That hit quite hard last year along about mid-September, and it weighed on me in my final three races. I'm hoping to avoid it this year, and maybe that's where it was useful to go four weeks - between Musselman and Fronhofer - without racing.

I have never been a Type A personality -- until triathlon enetered my life. My basic modus operandi has always been more like Type J (that is, along way from Type A), so all of my competitive drive is fairly new to me --- and sometimes doesn't "fit" as well as it should.

For something like Half Vermont, it might be useful to try to keep my focus on my time alone,a nd not worry about finishing first or even podiuming. We're often told to set goals based on what we have control over, and certainly that doesn't include who else is in the race. But i study race lists when they are available, just to see who is there and how that might alter my approach to the race. Is this healthy? I don't know, but were I to bet a small sum of money, i would bet that it isn't too healthy at all.

At Fronhofer I looked through the lists fRiday night to see what I was in for, maybe. Then on Saturday morning I saw Roick Morse on site, having just registered. And that got me going. Rick is a great swimmer, but I can usually out-bike him and generally out-run him, but it wasn;t until passed him on the bike that I started to settle down and do more of my own race.

Ultimately, it should be about doing one's own race. So for soemthing like HVJ I wish I could just put on my competitive blinders and focus on finishing under 5:15. That's my tenatative goal right now (subject to change of course), and if I can do that I should be thrilled -- regardless of where I place in the age group. But beyond that is how I place against the whole field, as that is what determines USAT rankings points. And that's why I said to Denise that when I type resluts, it moight be a Fruedian slip, as I feel my approach to rankings and placements is somewhat "slutty" (please pardon the rude term used again -- twice today!! ).

5:15 or bust at HVJ? I hope I can keep it that pure!!

Thanks for the welcome back wishes

SteveB,
Yeah, last time I posted was around the Boulder Peak in mid-July which I didn't end up volunteering at because I...umm...overslept. That's the tactful way of saying I ran into my friend's bridal party at the local bar and the planned "few drinks then get to bed at a decent hour" turned into Irish car bombs and Jager shots til the wee hours of the morn. So yeah, I overslept. I still feel kind of bad about that one, but there have been soooo many volunteers at the two events I did make that I'm sure I wasn't missed. I just hope the volunteer goodie bag wasn't nearly as good as the 70.3 race one (got a neoprene timing chip strap, among other things), because that would make me sad that I missed it. I know, bad motivation, but there's gotta be something to get me out the door at 4 am for these things.

Anywhos, I digress.

Thanks for your concern, Steve. Your worst-case scenarios weren't the case at all, although I did have my first clipless pedal toppling-over-slowly-experience the first time I got back on the bike. Luckily, it was on a deserted road where no one was watching, but I did get a lot of questions after they saw all the blood dripping from my knee. It was pretty gnarly. Damn gravel...

As for clubs around Boulder, I only know of one tri club (Boulder Triathlon Club) but there are more biking and running groups than I can even count. I've been biking with a women's cycling club all summer (whenever I can get up early on the weekends) so I'll probably stick with that. They're really good about having various distances and speeds every week and often have clinics for hill climbing, bike maintenance, etc. That's been an awesome group to be a part of but they only organize rides through mid-fall so I may have to do something else later this year. We'll see if some ladies would be interested in going on non-club rides once these end. I have to work on that.

The Boulder Tri Club generally has super long rides as well as super intense runs (at least what I've seen mailed out over the email list) but I'm sure once I get more involved I'll be able to find like-minded/speeded people. For swimming, they have three one-hour sessions a week at the local rec center with a coach and instruction from D3 Multisport during each meeting time, so that will be very beneficial. And since we'll be swimming laps, there's no worry of being left behind or slowing anybody down, which is my concern with both the bike and run workouts.

So yeah, looks like I'll be a BTC member sometime soon. I'm kind of excited. And now I'm off for a camping trip with the folks, so I probably won't post for at least a week.

Good luck to anyone racing this weekend! I look forward to catching up on the previous posts when I get back.

Kasia

Northwoods Sprint Triathlon
Nevis, MN
8 AM, Sat, Aug 14
1/4, 14, 3.1

Registration for this filled up in 2 1/2 days in January - it's very popular.  This one is special for me because it was my 1st tri.  I'll actually be able to see how much I've improved (hopefully) on the same course in the last year.  But the really exciting thing is that there are 4 women registered in my age group.  Finally some age group competition besides just one other.  I've done 6 tris and have 6 1st place age group awards but only because there's rarely anyone else in my age group.

Denise

Anyone else this weekend? I know some of you have some BIG races coming up in a few weeks.

Hey Denise, Kasia, Lisa, Tracey, Mandy, Steve.   Hope I didn't forget anyone who has been posting recently.   Want to respond to a bunch of your posts but still catching up from being away.   Just got in from a bike ride and heading out for a swim in a 50 meter outdoor pool.  

STEVE - Kind of excited about today's ride.   Wanted to do a shorter one and push the pace.   Did a 26km, what I call a sub-threshold ride (average HR was 140, four beats below LT) and finished with a negative split and 27.6 average speed on a hilly route with lots of long, gradual climbs.   There was virtually no wind - 4km cross wind for most of the ride.   This is the first training ride this year where I averaged over 26km/hr.  

I haven't even averaged 140 HR on any of my races (max 136).   I have had the sense that I haven't been pushing as hard as I should/could because the rides never really feel too hard, even the races.   I was determined today to push harder and kept expecting to fade and have the legs give out but they didn't.     The RPE for this ride definitely co-incided with the HR.   I was breathing hard, but not dying.   I did take a couple of breathers at the top of al couple of hills. 
Off to swim.  Talk to you later.

That was my favorite site of the 3 we were at.    The swimming was just great and an awesome view.   Nice feel to it with tons of red cedars.   Boy, not much gets by you, does it?   Thought we'd better keep that picture to ourselves. 

KASIA -

You're right that there should be more than just your goodwill that gets you up for a full stint of volunteering. Some people dig the t-shirt and the coffee and donuts, but for others that isn't quite enough; that's maybe when oversleeping happens!

A neoprene timing chip is a very good freebie, and I mean that totally. I have a few of my own, and whenever a race has smaller or more rigid straps I'll use mine. That happens at all of thr races scored by Score-This!, which includes the ones I just did this past weekend, plus, Musselman, plus Tupper Lake, and also Lake George in mid-Sept. One race I did with one of the lesser straps gave me abrasions that were quite psinfil by the end of the run. I usually recommend to first-timers that they BodyGlide around the chip strap, just in case. But I never need to do it with my neoprene, wider chip straps. So, you got a very good goodie!

Hey! Congrats on your first tip-over! I went through three or four of them, and about 10 years of serious riding, before I had my first serious crash, so hopefully the timeline for you will be about as long. Ideally, of course, in your case it would be minus three of the tip-overs.....as well as the serious crash!

Not surprisingly, you seem well-covered by various groups that will support and aid and abet you in your SBR pursuits. The women's cycling group sounds especially ideal, and I would bet my left elbow that come the end of their official season you will have no trouble at all finding other women with whom to ride. Wanna bet? Huh? Huh?

As for the BTC, I will now bet my right ankle that you can find lots of people who operate at a pace with which you will feel comfortable. Just watching the abundant members of the various clubs that were represented at FTT, the range of talent goes just about as far as is humanly possibly. But everybody -- fastest to slowest -- seems proud to wear the team outfit, so it seems as if all of their needs are being met.

D3! That's my people!! (Well, used to be.) In late '02 I wrote Mike Ricci about being coached, and at that time he had just filled his own stable of athletes to capacity. but he had just hired Erik Cagnina, and he would have Erik get in touch with me, which he did. We started together in Feb. '03, and went into '07 I guess it was. At that point Erik had two kids and his work was intensifying, so he was abandoning coaching. And at that point I was worrying more about money, and decided to stop being coached. But, but, but, my years with Erik and D3* were valuable above and beyond, and I have the ultimate of respect for Mike Ricci**. So, I'm sure that their involvement in BTC is top-notch, and you'll be very fortunate to have that at your disposal.

Camping with "the folks" -- as in your parents? that's pretty cool!

Also cool is how well your Padres continue to do. Who'd a-thunk it??


* I still wear my D3 long-sleeve run top as my "podium" jersey after races.
** Mike grew up in Connecticut and had the good sense to look northeast for his team (Red Sox) as opposed to slightly southwest (Skankess). Every May or June as I go through New England to some race or other I nuy Mike a Red sox yearbook; it's the least I can do!!

Well, I will tell you that I DON'T prepare my own dried food.   The majority is purchased - Mountain House, (fast becoming one of my favorite brands); Mary Jane's (organic, American Company) and Alpineare.  I looked into preparing all my own foods a few years back, but the equipment was more than I wanted to spend on something I wasn't sure that I was going to enjoy, plus it is a fair bit of work.  

I do bring things like dried mushrooms to add to pasta; and I recently found a good quality oatmeal (Only Oats, Maple and Roasted Flax) that is healthy, hearty and cooks almost instantly.   The problem I find with alot of instant oatmeals is that they don't really taste that good and they aren't really that nutritious.   I alternate adding sunflower seeds, raisins, dates, walnuts or almonds to have some variety and bulk it up.

This trip I found some vacuum packed Albacore tuna that was good added to some pasta.   

For mid day meals I have gone from making my own trail mix to having meal replacement bars (but these can be heavy).   The bars work well though because usually we are on the trail or on the water.    I made the mistake this trip of thinking we would be 'on site' for mid day meals and had soups planned, with some crostini and PB&J, but didn't end up eating many of the soups.  

You really need to supplement the packaged entrees because you generally only get 200-300 calories per portion which isn't enough when you have long travelling days.  

I was really surprised one of the long days we had - 7 hours of canoeing/portaging.  We didn't have breakfast but started the day with something called Vega Sport - Natural Plant-Based Performance Optimizer (for Energy, Stamina, Mental focus, Recovery) to be used prior to physical activity and additional servings can be taken during prolonged exercise.   The guy who owns one of the local health food stores uses it before his morning strength workouts and swears by it.    You just mix it with 8 oz of water and it was really good.    With that I had 1/2 of a Lara Bar and 4 almonds, and continued with the Lara Bar/almond combo every 1.5 hours.   Threw in a couple of figs along the way and 7 hours later was feeling great. 

We did need to get some solid food into us within the hour though.   Started to fade fast once we got to the site.

I'm going to start using the Vega before some of my training sessions and see if I have the same success.  

I think your idea of going on a trip with a women's outdoor group sounds good.   A friend and I went to a couple of seminars last year hosted by a similar group.    They do trips all over North America.    If you ever get adventurous and want to come up this way, I'd go on a trip with you any day!    We've done enough trips over the last 10 years that I would feel pretty comfortable on a number of them without having Ken along.     We've got all the gear.   You would just need to get here.  

DENISE -

That is very nifty, all that peer competition. You're right -- such a rarity!

For afew years I harbored a certain affecetion for my first tri, and then I realized that underneath it all it just wasn't one of my favorites. I'm sure (??) I'll do it again at some point, but am in no hurry to do so.

I may be joining you this weekend; it'll be a Saturday morning decision. This will be West Point Tri, and I signed up for it way back when, and was very psyched. But then I signed up for the FTT Double (last weekend) and Half Vermont half-iron (the 29th).......and suddenly the need for a sprint in mid-August wasn't so great. As I wrote to Anne a few days ago, this is one of the downsides of cobbling together a scheduleas the season progresses, along with races that have been on the slate for a while. Oops. I will probably do it, but there are lots of reasons not to -- too much driving (much along the same route I took to get to FTT), a night in a motel, and the not insignificant fact that I might be better served ramping up my mileage for Half Vermont. Right now I'm going into with a decent base, along with my charm and good looks .........and that might not be quite enough to set the stage for a dtrong race. I mentioned 5:15 as a goal to Anne, but I'm not sure my work ethic so far is in line with that!

Anyhow, WP is on Sunday and I will leave on Saturday morning if I do it. I guess I should book Luna into the kennel, just in case!

ANNE -

I can see why you are excited about today's ride -- fabulous results!!! The combination of the terrain and the average speednegative split AND the way you felt after doing all that at "sub-threshold" sounds like a good excuse to take some physiological "risks" at Orillia. I think you're ready for that particular challenge. What do you think?

Your wind was the same as mine -- not much! It was so glorious today, and I had my own superb swim and bike ride....and it always helps when the wind is minimal. I hope your own swim was equally as good!







Edited by stevebradley 2010-08-11 4:16 PM

I totally understand where you are coming from.   I REALLY try to have performance based objectives rather than say, placing in the top 3.  I don't think I've ever had the nerve to say I'm going for #1.      It may not seem like it but I am kind of competitive and have to keep squashing that tendency.   Ken for sure doesn't like it when I focus on the numbers.   
I really don't think there is anything wrong with it as long as you can still be happy with your performance when you don't win the race, if you know you have given it all you had.    I have a friend who is in the 40-45 age group which is HUGE and very competitive and she races VERY well, but she will denegrate herself and her performance to no end and won't even talk about it.    That kind of bugs me.   

Do you actually get to see who is racing?   I would love that.   The first thing I do when I get to the race site in the morning is check out who is racing.   As you say, that is one thing you can't control and even though I may be at the top of my game, I know I can forget it, if 2 or 3 others in my age group show up.    There is one girl in particular, that I, and no one else will catch.   She is like 15-18 minutes faster.    If I could ever get my running going on a consistent basis, and get that bike to 31km/hr, I would have a chance with the others.  

I suppose I too, should set some kind of goal for VHJ.    Want to help me with that?    I think your goal is GOOD!    

SHAUN,

Don't know if you are still around - hope so.   You told us the name of a big store in the States that is like MEC but we both forget what it is.    Would like to check it out when we are there.    Thanks. 

STEVE - Orillia is next weekend.

ANNE again -

Until Shaun comes on, I'll venture that it's either REI or EMS (Eastern Mountain Sports). There is a good EMS in South Burlington, and it's easy to get to; let me know if you want directions. It is in the same small mall as a very large Barnes and Noble, so that's double your pleasure right there. Win-win!!

ANNE once more -

REI story:

On the recommendation of SteveA (we miss you, man!) and hooslisa from the other group, I was anxious to try EFS. So I went to thir webiste and learned that one of their dealers is REI. I then went to the REI website and learned that they have a store in reading, MA, which is conveniently located about halfway between Escape the Cape and Pirate triathlons. So after Escape, en route to Pirate, i did the slight detour to REI, all giddy about getting some EFS. I arrived, quickly found the nutritionals (tons of various products!!!!!!) ---- but no EFS. I then asked a clerk about it, and he'd never heard of it. He then did a computer search and learned that........(drumroll, please......the closest REI that carried it was in Minneapolis! ARGHH! He kind of meekly suggested that I could order it from REI headquarters and have it mailed to me, but i declined the offer.

None of that is REI's fault, by the way; it's just an unfortunate kerfuffle. Boo-hoo!

ANNE -

Next weekend, as in the 22nd, yes? That's what's on the Trisport website. Yes, yes?

ANNE once more -

Some races are really good about providing lists. The best of the best are www.setupevents.com and www.piranha-sports.com, which include ages and are on-going. Ironman and 70.3 races are pretty good, but often after a particular point, i.e. when the rsaces are filled or close to filling. Another good one is www.musselmantri.com, which does that race plus Fly-by-Night Duathlon plus Portland Triathlon; like the two above, updates happen daily. Lake George Triathlon has its list going now, but it doesn't have ages.

The major players in Ontario keep it all closed-guarded, but K-Town has an on-going list -- but, like Lake George, it is sans ages. I once asked Terry McKinty (Somersault) if he would do it, and he flat-out said no. (I think he doesn't want people to see it if races are NOT filling up quickly!)

If Harry is at an Ontario race, or Robert Knuckey, maybe, then my chances of winning the a.g. drop precipitously! If Mike Mason is at HVJ....same thing. (Less with him than with Harry, however.) A guy named Tim Higgins seems to have disappeared from the tri scene, but throughout our 50s we raced against each other about eight times, and he always finished ahead of me. About half the time I could beat him out of the water, but then it didn't take too long for him to nail me on the bike. That's just the way it is! I win my a.g. enough that it becomes sort of a unplanned expectation, even though I know full well that I'm hardly the best 60-64 out there. I mean, last year there were about 53 of them who ranked higher in USAT than I did, so that's got to tell me something, eh?

Knowing that you've raced your best on any given day SHOULD be enough, and I have to admit that when I don't win the a.g. I can still feel fine if my own performance has met my goals and expectations and efforts. But, there is always that part of me that holds out a bit of remorse, or regret, or something along those lines. It's not much, but it's there.

Are you sure you want me to help your with yoru HVJ goal? I will be glad to provide some thoughts, but I figure you've got your own very observant and attentive wingman, Ken, to know exactly how you've trained recently and what you are capable of coming up with at the Next Big Race. But, if you want i will add my (paltry?) two cents worth!

I love REI!

Anne, since you're into the outdoorsy type stuff, you'd love REI so if there's one around when you're down here I'd definitely recommend checking it out! EMS is decent too, but REI is bigger and has more stuff.

Thanks Steve! Somehow I missed that post.

Very helpful, for sure. I think I'm convinced now that I need more than just plain water when the weather outside is really unbearable.

Today I did a shorter session (30 minute ride followed by 25 minute run) and fueled up before hand with 1 serving of Clif Shot Bloks (margarita flavor). I definitely find the bloks more palatable than the gels. 1 serving has 210mg of sodium, 20mg of potassium, 24g of carbs and 90 calories. And I drank plain water during the ride (about 16 ounces). 1 package of the Clif Bloks has two servings, so I ended up eating the other serving after I finished my run and before my 25 minute strength training session. Perhaps it is the placebo effect working here, but I DO feel better now that I've been using the nutrition pre-training.

Tracey

TRACEY -

I honestly love how nutrition works, how one size definitely does not fit all. In my case, I have never been a gummy-bear lind of guy, so things like the blocks and their ilk just make me gag. As for the beans, they're just too much like candy. So, there's that whole niche of specialized endurance nutrition that I won't touch with a ten-foot pole.

But then there are others of you who love that stuff and find gels simply disgusting, and some who struggle with the various drinks. Well, I guess that's why there is such variety out there -- there has to be something for everyone, right?

Maybe it is the placebo effect for you....but I really believe something is working. Moreover, I firmly believe that there are many, many somethings that are all better than nothing, and as soon as one starts adding a few new carbs and electrolytes to their systems, life will improve as they go through their paces.

Anyhow, i'm just glad that you've sifted around and found a few things that work for you! Chomp, chomp!

THREE GOOD THINGS TODAY:

(1) I found two old DeSoto running hats!!! I have been wearing these for years, and bought my first in 2000. I thought I was don to my final two serviceable ones, and have found that the newer DeSoto running hats aren't half as good as the old ones. But there, up amidst ALL of my various and sundry gear in the shelves above the washer and dryer, were two of the old style. YIPPEE!

(2) My annual swimming breakthrough may have arrived!!!!! Literally every season, in early/mid August, I suddenly see a spike in my swimming. This year I was sure it wouldn't happen, but yesterday felt surprisingly good and today, on my "time-trial" site along the St. Lawrence River, I was able to confirm what I felt yesterday. If I can make it from one headland to another in an average of about 6:24 over the course of a given session, I'm more close to where I want my swimming to be. So today it was 6:01, 6:18, 6:17, and 6:13, for an average of 6:13 for whatever it is -- about 350m, I call it. DOUBLE YIPPEE!!! Now I have to see if this was just an anomaly today and I will slide back to where I've been for the season -- about 1 6:50 average.

(3) Great bike today with the new geeklid. I did about 28km in about 48 minutes, for an average of 34.5kmh, which is 21mph. I'm not sure the geeklid helped, but it certainly felt and sounded different than my good old regular helmet. If it is to work for me, however, I have to figure out a way to control the drips of sweat that get on my sunglasses; it seems to channel sweat much differently than my olther helmet.

And that's that!