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2012-01-23 8:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED

You have to admit though Dirk...at some point when you finally zone out and are into the pain, you enjoy the fact that you are able to push that hard and your legs just do what you want them to.  That's why I honestly enjoy the pain that is the 20 min Power test.  It just makes me feel powerful.  Crazy as that is.

Warren, I would only do the sprint at Pumpkinman.  I'm taking the advice of the group and not planning any half marathon related anything until I'm comfortable with my run.  I am just too shaky on it right now.  Not exactly nervous, just extremely cautious.  I have a busy year planned and want to do well, ya know?  Glad to hear you are doing Eastman.  I love that race.  I'm so excited to do it again.  You thinking Rev 3 OOB?



2012-01-23 8:45 PM
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Jo63 - 2012-01-23 9:37 PM Its from winter maintenance run focued on BT, I was beginning to think Ihad no business doing triathalons . By the way thanks everyone for the push for me to get out a run I did 2 miles extremely slow still not feeling wonderful and my head was pounding but at least I got something in for today!

The fresh air probably did you some good!  I really hope you feel better.  Remember to drink lots of fluids and get lots of sleep!  I always like to hit the vitamin C and D when I start feeling crappy.  You'll be back at it in no time.  Don't push it while you feel bad.  A couple days lost now is better than two weeks because you pushed it, right? 

Now I sound like Jeff.  It's like he's my other dad.

2012-01-24 6:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED
Morning wake me up swim:  W/U. 25/50/75/100/75/50/25 warm up. 200tt@3:55. 50tt@55. 3x50 at rest of +20sec/+15+10+5. wd. 
2012-01-24 6:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED
pgrun - 2012-01-24 7:10 AMMorning wake me up swim:  W/U. 25/50/75/100/75/50/25 warm up. 200tt@3:55. 50tt@55. 3x50 at rest of +20sec/+15+10+5. wd. 
nice work! Great starting point! I would encourage everyone to film their swim stroke and post it in the group. None of us are experts, but have a good idea of how to correct stroke issues.
2012-01-24 7:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED

pgrun - 2012-01-24 6:10 AM Morning wake me up swim:  W/U. 25/50/75/100/75/50/25 warm up. 200tt@3:55. 50tt@55. 3x50 at rest of +20sec/+15+10+5. wd. 

Great swim!

2012-01-24 7:57 AM
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Subject: RE: Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED
DirkP - 2012-01-23 8:14 PM

I'll take some of that $1 per mile action.  Heck, I'll take .25 a mile.  But that needs to include all 3 disciplines.

Paul, Try to get some organization to your swim WO's so you know where you are AND where you are going.  The 2 TT's will help point you in the right direction from the start.  Remember to get a solid WU in before doing the TT and do the 200 first.  The longer distance is going to show a little bit of endurance.

Joanne, WOW?  I am not 100% certain what all of it means but it looks like it's talking about a running cadence. They say you should have a cadence of close to 90 beats per minute.  (I have never checked my cadence and maybe I will sometime but I haven't felt the importance of checking it and I suspect I am close enough that I wouldn't try to change anything.)

Anyway, I am going to have to defer to Jeff or someone a little more knowledgeable on this one.  I simply can't figure the skipping thing out.

Is this from a plan here on BT and if so which one?  I or someone else can take a look at the plan to figure it out.

______________

On a personal training note:  I usually don't listen to my iPod while riding the trainer but I rode early enough yesterday morning that I didn't want the TV blaring, so I plugged in and took off.  The WO was the usual BRUTAL 6x4 minutes at 100-104% of maximum lactate steady state HR.  (I described this WO the other day.)  Anyway, the last song that came on immediately prior to the MS was from a Christian hardcore band (yes I like hardcore music) called Demon Hunter.  The song: Desire the Pain.  And a sample of the lyrics:

Draining the life from our veins,  Into a curse that we despise
What a sickening way,  To spend our lives

I desire the pain
I desire the weight
And I will face my grave

This pretty much sums up the way this ride makes you feel.  I thought it quite ironic to hear these words as I was about to "face my grave" on the bike. Cool (snick in the smiley face for you Brenda.)

That workout sounds excruiating!

 

Back to the workouts for me now that my weekend of rest is over. 45 min ride on the trainer yesterday and I am heading to the pool today. I'm going to hit someones blog and look for a workout so I hope you are logging!!!!!!!!

Again, nice races this weekend everyone!



2012-01-24 8:51 AM
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Subject: RE: Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED
How far along are you with your swim training? I can give you a workout if you want one! About how many yards do you plan on doing?
2012-01-24 9:01 AM
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Subject: RE: Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED

pgrun - 2012-01-24 7:10 AM Morning wake me up swim:  W/U. 25/50/75/100/75/50/25 warm up. 200tt@3:55. 50tt@55. 3x50 at rest of +20sec/+15+10+5. wd. 

That's a nice swim, and gives you benchmarks from here on out to measure progress.

2012-01-24 9:12 AM
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Subject: RE: Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED

Jo63 - 2012-01-23 7:23 PM So I am reading my training plan and it says :Run 8x30 left foot strikes - time should be between 19-21". In between each stride you will skip 40 times back to the start - take short rest and repeat. This means ?????

Warren nailed it.  The term "strides" refers to a short sprint.  The right way to do them:

1) be warmed up

2) start slow and gradually accelerate to 90% of full sprint

3) as soon as you reach that 90% of a full sprint, gradually decelerate

4) full 'stride' takes about 100 yards give or take and you haven't even started breathing until you have finished

These are not hard on your body, except for those of us who are old and decrepid.  Anything fast could be hard in some way on our tired old bodies.  It's important for distance runners to do these periodically.  I would say that with the exception of nursing some sort of soreness (like those of us with hurting achilles right now) you should do this once a week all year. 

They will always be part of a good pre-race warmup routine.

The skipping back to the starting point is a great way to work in some explosive plyometrics.  The skipping movement is a great drill to strengthen the calves and glutes on the push off as well as the hip flexor on the driving knee.  It also encourages hip flexibility.

 

2012-01-24 9:13 AM
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jgerbodegrant - 2012-01-23 8:58 PM

Warren, you better do that 200 yd swim before March, because you do know I'm going to be back up to speed by then!!!  You better believe it! 

Oh, I have no illusions of being a better swimmer than you and know as soon as you get into the pool you will quickly leave me in the dust.  But I think I can hit your "out of swim shape" pace.  Maybe.

 

DirkP - 2012-01-23 9:14 PM

On a personal training note:  I usually don't listen to my iPod while riding the trainer but I rode early enough yesterday morning that I didn't want the TV blaring, so I plugged in and took off.  The WO was the usual BRUTAL 6x4 minutes at 100-104% of maximum lactate steady state HR.  (I described this WO the other day.)  Anyway, the last song that came on immediately prior to the MS was from a Christian hardcore band (yes I like hardcore music) called Demon Hunter.  The song: Desire the Pain.  And a sample of the lyrics:

Draining the life from our veins,  Into a curse that we despise
What a sickening way,  To spend our lives

I desire the pain
I desire the weight
And I will face my grave

This pretty much sums up the way this ride makes you feel.  I thought it quite ironic to hear these words as I was about to "face my grave" on the bike. Cool (snick in the smiley face for you Brenda.)

I have to agree that those 6x4 intervals are above and beyond.  My third 20 minute TT is today so that is also a barrel of laughs.  I am going to really work to embrace the pain.

2012-01-24 9:15 AM
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Subject: RE: Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED

Here are some grainy shots from the race this weekend with Team Yeager and my sponsored athletes.  There are no action shots because the photographer was also competing.

That is Evan (11)

and Jordan (20)

 



Edited by JeffY 2012-01-24 9:19 AM




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2012-01-24 9:25 AM
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Subject: RE: Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED
Nice Jeff. One of the things I really look forward to when having kids.
2012-01-24 9:37 AM
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Subject: RE: Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED
jgerbodegrant - 2012-01-23 9:43 PM

Warren, I would only do the sprint at Pumpkinman.  I'm taking the advice of the group and not planning any half marathon related anything until I'm comfortable with my run.  I am just too shaky on it right now.  Not exactly nervous, just extremely cautious.  I have a busy year planned and want to do well, ya know?  Glad to hear you are doing Eastman.  I love that race.  I'm so excited to do it again.  You thinking Rev 3 OOB?

Sounds like a good plan for you - I was going to yell at you if you were looking at the 70.3 (dad#3).  Yeah, I'm thinking Rev3 OOB as a possibility.

2012-01-24 9:53 AM
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Subject: RE: Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED
JeffY - 2012-01-24 10:15 AM

Here are some grainy shots from the race this weekend with Team Yeager and my sponsored athletes.  There are no action shots because the photographer was also competing.

That is Evan (11)

and Jordan (20)

 

Awesome job and some great memories being formed.  I look forward to the day when mine can beat me (easier job for them than for yours!).

2012-01-24 10:17 AM
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Subject: RE: Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED
wbayek - 2012-01-24 9:53 AM

Awesome job and some great memories being formed.  I look forward to the day when mine can beat me (easier job for them than for yours!).

Not after being a part of Dirk's mentor group!  You will become so fast it will discourage your kids.

 

2012-01-24 11:02 AM
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JeffY - 2012-01-24 11:17 AM
wbayek - 2012-01-24 9:53 AM

Awesome job and some great memories being formed.  I look forward to the day when mine can beat me (easier job for them than for yours!).

Not after being a part of Dirk's mentor group!  You will become so fast it will discourage your kids.

 

Yeah I was gonna say the same thing! I'm scared how much youre going to kick my butt!


2012-01-24 11:36 AM
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Subject: RE: Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED
That looks like a great race Jeff, especially since the kids were involved! I always look forward to running with my son during 5k's! Makes me run harder so I get to double back and run some of the distance with him for support! You better be carefull though, with that kind of sponsorship they may deplete your savings!
2012-01-24 12:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED
DirkP - 2012-01-22 4:00 PM

abergdol - 2012-01-22 11:47 AM
I have some questions about training times and distances.  My goal race is a HIM in July.  I know I have a ways to go in my training, but I want to make sure I am on track.  For my runs, I am starting to use the 3 2 1 plan at a slow pace and then gradually build my distance.  I am at about 20 miles per week now, with a long run of 6 miles.  

  1. Should I be adding about 10% a week?  You sure can add to the runs if you like.  This is actually going to be up to you and to be determined based upon your available time. I am going to be a little more conservative than Jeff and say you don't need to train 6 days a week running.  It's a choice you can make on your own.  If you want to pick up the swim and bike better then I would add there and take away from the run a bump.  After your HIM and you begin to look at the Mary, then start dumping other things starting with the swim in my opinion.
  2. And then how much are you supposed to back off during the recovery week?  conservative ideas are generally 30%+ for the recovery weeks.  This can actually be kind of individual as some of us have injuries to protect and are younger than others and heal and recover faster.
  3. Should that be every 4th week?  It doesn't have to be on a set schedule.  Again this is pretty individual and can be determined by the athlete.  BUT, I would definitely start with every 4th week and play it by feel after a while.  Pay attention to your body closely and don't take any chances and push it harder than you think you should.  If you've been sore and need a week off, take it, but don't confuse soreness with the absolute need for a recovery week.  Right now my legs are shot and they will remain that way for a few days but I have learned that I can recover after a couple of days away from a particular type of soreness.
  4. I have just started up on swimming and biking again (a few weeks ago) and have been doing those consistently twice a week but could add a third if needed.  A few people mentioned that you can hit those a lot harder than the running.  I am not sure what a reasonable starting distance is for these.  I think Warren made a really good point when commenting to John.  Make all your rides about an hour.  I think this is really the best approach to hitting the bike and picking up an overall cycling fitness.  Usually 1 hour can be done pretty easily much of the time because it's not a large block to free up.  Intensity is key to the bike.  You want to make every WO here count.
  5. What sort of mileage and yardage should I be at now?  As I said above and agree with Warren, a minimum of 1 hour bikes and you can work on getting your long rides up to 2 hours over time.
  6. And then should I build at the same rate as the runs from there? I don't think the build for the swim or bike needs to be nearly as slow as the run.  The bike can take off right away but be aware it will shock your body to go for the longer time and you may need to adjust your diet accordingly.  Or, take advantage of the additional calories you're going to be burning on the bike for the current weight loss challenge.  For the swim I take a little more conservative approach because of the demand on your shoulders.  Swimming is not an impact sport but it can create some issues if you're not careful.  I think these potential injuries pop up over time and possibly over enough time to be unable to determine what happened. That said, I think you could easily start asap at 2000 yards per swim but do a lot of drill work.

For everyone's info, I suggest checking each persons logs occasionally.  You can learn a lot from viewing what a person does.  This is one reason I post my WO's for the swim and bike in the format in which they were done.  You can get ideas to shock your WO's into life after things feel like they have gone stale.  You can also see where you are currently versus where you started.

On a swimming note:  when logging your swims use the time format in this fashion.  10x50 on 1:00 means that you have 1 minute to complete the rep and then rest and start the next rep.  For me it would look like this in practical terms: 40 seconds start to finish of the actual swim and then I have 20 seconds of rest before beginning the next rep = 1 minute.  Basically your time starts when you leave the wall and continues until you leave the wall for the next rep.  Log this info if you can as this will tell a large story by the end of the year.

Edit:

One more thing.  I know you have kids and I believe you have extra time throughout the week during the day that most of us don't have.  Just be careful that your husband and children don't get left on the altar of your dreams.

Dirk,

I meant to thank you for all of the feedback.  I am working on adjusting my plan accordingly. 

I appreciate the reminders about the importance of family time too.  I probably need that reminder every now and then, because I can get carried away easily.  Right now I am just starting up in my career, so I am not working full time yet.  That's the reason why I feel like I need to do the HIM this year- right now I have plenty of time to train during the day (2 hour lunches on Mon-Tues, half days on Wed-Fri).  I don't think my practice will allow me this kind of time in another few years.  On the weekends, we make sure to include the kids.  We either take them to the Y so they can swim after we workout, or they ride in the stroller/trailer when it's warmer out (they love this!)   

2012-01-24 12:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED
Wow - I leave you guys alone for half a day and you stack up the pages so I have to spend all my time reading and none writing!

I managed to get in a little of all three today, although the run and bike were in the wrong order - Early morning swim of 800yrds, followed by a lunch time easy 2 mile run and nasty 4.5 mile bike (who said low cadence intervals and hills were a good idea? My legs hate you). I felt good when I finished though, and that's what counts!

wbayek - 2012-01-23 1:26 PM

I'm sitting here at my desk realizing that even after an almost 90 minute long run yesterday, my legs feel great and not tired at all.  Wow, such a long way from 2 1/2 years ago.  Sometimes we just need to step back and appreciate the little things.


I agree - I was getting frustrated with myself in the pool this morning for just not being able to get my feet up the way I want when I'm swimming and for the fact that no matter how fast I try and go, I always move at the same speed.

Then I thought about it on the way home and remembered that when I got into a pool for the first time last year I could barely swim a length without my arms howling in pain and me feeling like I was going to drown. I also couldn't bike or run more than about a mile without my legs doing the same thing (it was a hilly mile).

So thanks Warren, its always good too remember what you can do now that you couldn't before.
2012-01-24 4:02 PM
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I might be beating a dead horse here, but these last three runs since I have been down here are so weird.  It's like I'm just chugging along like normal, but I'm not breathing hard at all and I find myself feeling like I do right before I fall asleep.  Like super relaxed and almost sleepy.  Does this seem normal at all to anyone?  My runs have been good and I'm keeping my heart rate around what it normally is.  I'm seeing a bit faster times for that heart rate, but it's flat as heck down here.
2012-01-24 4:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED

Jonathan - I could use a beginner swim workout.

Up until now I've just gone and done form drills for a few laps, then swam easy to moderate freestyle 25 or 50 then rest and repeat. No real warm up except the drills and never any focus on speed work. About the longest distance I've covered in a swim workout this last month was 1000 yards or so in 30 minutes.

My sprint tri last year was only a 400 yard swim so I didn't need much to get there. Now with two 1/2 mile sprints and an Olympic on the schedule for this year I need to really build up.

I'd like to build to a 70.3 distance by June 2013 and maybe do Ironman 70.3 Boise.



2012-01-24 7:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED
Thanks I am going to try to add this once a week I really need to work on my speed.
2012-01-24 7:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED
JonnyVero - 2012-01-24 5:05 PM

Jonathan - I could use a beginner swim workout.

Up until now I've just gone and done form drills for a few laps, then swam easy to moderate freestyle 25 or 50 then rest and repeat. No real warm up except the drills and never any focus on speed work. About the longest distance I've covered in a swim workout this last month was 1000 yards or so in 30 minutes.

My sprint tri last year was only a 400 yard swim so I didn't need much to get there. Now with two 1/2 mile sprints and an Olympic on the schedule for this year I need to really build up.

I'd like to build to a 70.3 distance by June 2013 and maybe do Ironman 70.3 Boise.

Sounds good Vero.  I know I always answer with a quesion, but how many days a week/hours a week can you dedicate to swimming right now?  Here's a good one to up the yardage a bit from what you are currently doing.  It sounds complex, but it will help pass the time:

Warmup:  100 swim easy / 100 kick with kickboard/ 100 swim easy
Main:  6 x 50 with 10s rest.  1st and 4th 50-60%, 2nd and 5th 75%, 3rd and 6th 85-90%
           2 x 100 @75%
Cooldown:  200 easy focussing on stroke.  Go slow and feel each part of the stroke.

When I say easy/50-60%:  I mean it's easy.  You're "all day" speed.
When I say 75%:  You are working hard, your heart rate is up, but you can continue and your stroke technique doesn't suffer.
When I say 85-90%:  You are working a bit harder than before and your heart rate is up, it takes real concentration to keep your stroke consistent.  This should not ruin your technique, but SHOULD challenge you.

2012-01-24 8:12 PM
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jgerbodegrant - 2012-01-24 5:02 PM I might be beating a dead horse here, but these last three runs since I have been down here are so weird.  It's like I'm just chugging along like normal, but I'm not breathing hard at all and I find myself feeling like I do right before I fall asleep.  Like super relaxed and almost sleepy.  Does this seem normal at all to anyone?  My runs have been good and I'm keeping my heart rate around what it normally is.  I'm seeing a bit faster times for that heart rate, but it's flat as heck down here.

Did you travel to a different time zone?  A few years back I went on a trip and had a similar experience, not quite there and a little blah during the run.  I was several time zones away and was in the 4th city in as many days and placed the blame on that!

2012-01-24 8:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED
jgerbodegrant - 2012-01-23 8:58 PM

I just want to throw my 2cents in there about bike training this time of year.  As much as it sucks, this time of year should really be spend building some power in your legs.  This means big gear intervals.  Really pushing hard to build strength.  For those of you that want to make sure you can go longer for summer races, I would honestly spend the time building the strength now and then slowly build up the time a little later if you have to choose between the two.  I have taken both approaches and the former has given me much greater results.

According to this I have been going about my bike training a little wrong.  I have Jorge's plan going right now, but honestly I am having a hard time keeping on schedule.  Keep pushing it back but still getting in 2 days a week.  Anyway while doing the WO I have no problem getting my HR up, and I do this by increasing the cadence.  I turn the resistance up but only enough to keep me from spinning crazy.  With this method I have noticed that I have had to increase the amount resistance to maintain the same effort compared to mid-December!

Should I increase the resistance and allow the Cadence to decrease?  My opinion if you want to increase the strength in your legs then you need to increase the resistance.  Do you guys agree with this thought?  I finished my last 95% set today with a whole lot more resistance and it really showed.  The HR shot up and I was grunting to get through the 5' set.  It was fun!

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