GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 231)

TRACEY -

Lurking? I've been sitting here all lonely and depressed, and you've been LURKING?? Harumph!

The impression I got from the Boston networks was that it was a dud. One station featured one of their camerapersons getting blown over by the wind, and another went to great lengths talking about two houses on Nantucket that MIGHT be in danger of being eroded out to to sea. Better a dud, I guess, than something that caused widespread damage and hardship.

I keep telling you --- keep working on your swim, and it will be a good race-day weapon for you!

As for the end-of-season plans, those are two good goal races. Duathlons are pretty cool creatures, and it's just so nice to do a multi-stage race that does not involve swim gear. You'll get to t-zone to set up, and do so in about gour minutes, and think "That's it??"

As for the 10km, it'll be really good to compare it with the other -- both in terms of progression through the season, and as a way to judge where you stand with temperature and performance. Which is which? That is, what du is it, what 10km is it?

Sunflower power!!

ANNE -

That was a very nice chunks-of-two-days spent with you and Ken, and I REALLY appreciate you hanging around for so long after the race. I know you had better places to get to, but form my perspective it was just so fine having that extra time with you.

I have fond memories of the entire event - well, maybe not so much that damnable run. But that was my fault mostly -- for being less prepared than I should have been, and for being too aggressive on the bike. As I said in my RR, it wasn't until about mile 45 that I realized I might indeed be able to do the run, butr by then I had put too much on the line during the ride. Oops!! I would like to get back there anoyther year.....but I'm not sure next year will be it!

I'm glad you enjoyed the Lake Placid bike course -- pretty nifty, eh? those descents into Keene are pretty terrifying, but what is even more terrifying is to do it on race day and see how some peolpe attack those things! Mercy!!

Here's a true story for you:
When that course was being created, there was serious thought given to make it go the other way. As oyu can imagine from that descent, it would make for a really miserable ascent, especially twice. So there was lots of discussion, and finally it was agreed to make it counter-clockwise, with the climbs being the "stair-steps" up from Wilmington, as opposed to the wicked grrrrrrrrrriiiiiiind up towards Placid from Keene.

How about the Musselman course? Did you get to do that, too, or parts of it? I can hardly wait for more details form the post-HVJ part of your trip!

I will give you a detailed accounting of some of those races in the states. I didn't know you were compiling a list from what I had done myself, and while for the most part I have had very few clunkers, there are some that stand out from the rest -- those would be the Musselman events and either or both of the Fronhofer ones. Lake George is also really nice. But -- more details later!

I'm off here now, as Lynn needs on.

MANDY -

FIVE days?? I thought is was just four. That elevates you from hard-core to hard-corer!

Nice week of The Stuff -- especially the swims. The interval efforts should really help you at Lobstah. I have a feeling in my long bones that you're gonna have a good day there!

As for me and my races, which I posted last night, if you are a keen observer with a good memory you may have noticed that Burlington is not on the list. Why? Glad you asked!

Coming out of 1/2VT last Sunday, I wasn't sure I wanted to race three weekends straight, and as the 18th and 25th seemed non-negotiable, that left Burl (on the 12th) as the question mark. I signed up for it stupidly-early, but wanted to keep it beacuse so far this is the first year in, like, forever, that I haven't eaten at least one race fee.

Then along came Tuesday, and a note from the RD that USAT sanctioning had been cancelled for it. The race will still happen, but it just won't be a USAT race. So, without that and its USAT points, i'm not interested. I wouldn't've signed up for it had it not bee listed as a USAT race, so if in doubt now, why do it?

While I appreciate him telling people that sanctioning was canvcelled, I'm slightly miffed that it even happened; had the race been a cornerstone of my points quest, it would be a huge bummer. He's had a couple of laissez-faire type screw ups in recent years, i think, and his website for Burlington was frustratingly skimpy, so he may have premanently lost me as an attendee of his events. Oh well.

I mention this all to you just because at some point I tried to convince you to do Burlington......but you seemed to have thois solo thing planned. Just as well, as it turns out!

I too have fond memories - it was just so much more memorable having you, Jess and Mark there with us.   I have some good pictures that I will post in my album, but also e-mail them to you, because they will be better quality.   There was no way I was leaving until I got that plaque!!  

I was really surprised when we got to Placid.   We drove most of the bike route since it was on our travels into Placid (except for the Keene descent) and was surprised at the terrain.  I was expecting the route to be made up of huge mountains like the climb to Whiteface so was quite happy which is why we decided to bike the whole route.   Figured we would just take it slow and easy and enjoy the scenery.   Meadowbrook isn't our kind of camping but it was quite nice and we got the most remote (last) site away from the road, in the woods, which drowned out any traffic noise.

As usual, it got windy.   Not crazy but we had a 20km/hr SW headwind from Jay to Wilmington and pretty much the rest of the route.   The most significant climbing is in and out of Placid and as we started slowly, I was averaging 20km/hr and thought, boy, this is going to be a long day.   But I didn't want my legs to give out.   Then came the Keene descent.   I often go over 60km/hr down hills but they are generally short distances.  This descent went on and on and on, and winding, and not knowing the roads I started to freak abit, and kept putting the brakes on at 60.   Some points was breaking at 50.   Coming into Keene where they had the speed marked at 35, I was going 47.   We stopped at the General Store at the bottom and refilled with water and sat in some comfy chairs and enjoyed the scenery for a bit. 

The route had been changed for this year due to construction but it was finished, so we were able to do the normal route.   Really enjoyed going out and back on Hazelton and the climb out of Jay was long but OK.   I was starting to fade around High Falls Gorge.   It was really getting windy and the traffic was heavier and the roads for the last 20 miles aren't that great.   I was saying to myself, looks like I will finish this bike with no standing climbs when we saw 3 hills ahead, coming into Placid.   Somebody had painted (or chalked) in huge block, white letters on each hill - mama bear, baby bear, PAPA bear.   I had to stand on PAPA bear.  

Going to post this now, so I don't lose it and will be back with more.  

I don't know about hard corer, but it will be fun!  ACTUALLY, a girl I went to grad school with is now going with me, which will be fun. I am a bit sad to be missing out on the solo, but I haven't seen her for a very long time so it is all good.

I did notice Burlington was not on your list.  That is weird that the USAT sanctioning was removed so late in the game.  I wonder why?  That is frustrating.

Off for a swim!!!

Steve:

Ya, Earl was a dud for sure. It's funny because everyone seemed to sense that it wasn't going to do much. I had gone out Thursday night to pick up a few groceries, the night before Earl was supposed to arrive. I was expecting crazy crowds but it was like a regular old Thursday night. In fact, it's MUCH crazier on those days prior to predicted snowstorms (and obviously we're used to snowstorms around here...) And the next day at Home Depot, there were tons of employees standing around but hardly any shoppers. And the gallon containers of water at the front entrance looked like they were hardly touched. But absolutely - better to have a dud than a storm that could have caused lots of damage and destruction.

I really want to keep working on my swim, but I've just about had it with my Y this summer. First of all, the summer campers take priority, so the lap swim times during the day are very limited. So you have to squeeze in a swim workout whenever you can. So the other day I headed over there when it was raining, and there was a sign at the entrance saying that lap swim was closed due to the rain (they close the outdoor pool in the rain, so they move the campers indoors, and open up the entire pool to them). So... I'm thinking tomorrow of heading over to Sampson's Pond again for an OWS. As much as I feel skeeved by the creatures and organic matter around me, I'd rather deal with that than the headache of dealing with the Y! Only a couple more weeks before I have to move it back to the Y anyway, since I'm sure the temps are going to start dropping very soon.

My duathlon is the Colony Place Duathlon in Plymouth:

http://www.colonyplaceduathlon.com/about.php

And the 10k is the Spooky 10k Run in New Bedford:

http://www.rungnbtc.com/Spooky_Run.php

I'm debating whether to wear a costume for that one!

I'm also doing the Susan G. Komen Race for the Cure 5k on the 25th of this month (I'm part of a team), the Edaville 2-mile run on November 13th, and the America's Hometown 5k in Plymouth on November 21st.

Tracey

TRACEY/STEVE:

Went into the Fallen Arch in Placid to check out the Newtons, but she didn't have my size.     Was able to try on a 1/2 size bigger to get a bit of a feel for them and I will tell you that no matter how hard I tried to elicit the neuroma I couldn't do it.   In my bare feet, with my sandals, or my runners I COULD elicit the pain just by putting pressure on my mid foot.   So, I'm thinking I might just have some luck with them.   Going to check on-line to see what's out there.   Any advice before I order anything?  

STEVE/MANDY:

Spoke with a couple who did Lake Placid this year and volunteered last year who said we should get our names in asap before all the good volunteer spots get taken up.   But when I checked on-line today, it looks like you can't register to volunteer until February 1st.   Is that when you signed up, Mandy? 

Our (my thoughts, really) are that if we can get our running back over the winter, that we would do Musselman on July 16 and then go over to Placid to volunteer for the 24th.    Ken thinks it might be too soon to do Musselman, and that to build our running we should focus on the shorter distances next summer.   I'm not sold on that yet.  

Do you think it is possible to get enough of a running base in to be able to do Placid in 2012?   Be honest.  I won't be hurt.       Would it be more realistic to do Musselman in 2012 and Placid the following year.   That just seems to far away. 

Yay!

Steve is more of a Newton expert than I am, so I think he'd have some good advice for you. I ordered the Neutral Racer, based on the website recommendation. (I have high arches and my feet tend to roll outward). I really love the shoes, and have had no issues or pain (neuroma or otherwise). I know there is concern about the calf and achilles issues you can get initially in the Newtons because of the shift to mid-foot striking, but for me, the only issue I had was some minor calf soreness the day after my runs for the first couple of weeks, but then I got accustomed to the shoes and everything was fine.

Now that I think of it, there was a post a while back from Steve which helped to describe the differences between the racer, trainer and guidance trainer so maybe he could give you some info there beyond what the website offers?

Good luck!

I signed up in June for volunteering, it wasn't until then that I decided I wanted to do the race...but I didn't care what I got for a spot.  I would recommend an early afternoon volunteer - or something that allows you to see the mass start.  That is awesome. 

I camped, BTW, and got up early, found a place to park about 2 miles or so outside of town and rode my bike.  It is the way to go, many roads are closed.

I might be the wrong one to ask about if you can do IMLP in 2012 or not.  I think with the right mindset and the right training, anyone can get there (barring injuries and stuff life throws at you).  If this helps, I did my first sprint tri in June 2009; oly in Sept 2009.  My first HIM in August 2010.  IM is going to be July 2011.

Keep in mind - I am not a very cautious person - by that I just mean my entire life I have just I jumped off of a cliff and learned to fly on the way down.  The landing is usually OK.  Most people are not that way, and that is totally 100% fine (some would argue that it is normal!!! ha) and you need to stay within your own personal comfort zone.

Stay healthy this winter on the run!! I will try to too!

Cheers,

Mandy

Oh, my.......better be careful what I wish for. There I was, all lonely last week, wanting afew people to reappear, and then that happened, and then I'm gone for the day, and then I return to find that Anne and Tracey and Mandy have written circles aroud me. Yikes!

Well, it's late and we're off to bed, but I will awaken in the morning knowing that I have my work cut out for me. So, see you all in the a.m.!

ANNE -

Can't resist a quick one here!

So you discovered the misery of that climb out from Jay, eh? I trust what you're referring to begins right after the 90-degree left turn, and then the grind of a climb that doesn't look bad on paper, but is just a real enrgy-sapping bugger. That one, right? I have ridden that 3 or 4 times, and each time the wind has been in my face, which of course only heightens the misery. I dislike that part of the course profoundly!

I wonder if they will return to the "old" course now that the Haselton Road construction is done. By all accounts this year's option to it made the course more "mellow", and maybe that will prove popular enough to keep.

One problem with Haselton Road is that it is easy to "cut" part of it -- and I guess no small number of people did so over the years. It is twisty enough and woodsy enough so that one can pull over for a pee on the out part, and then wait until the coast is clear both ways and hop back on the bike heading the other way. Pretty sleazy, huh?

ANNE again (although it's morning now) -

The three bears are the "signature" climbs of IMLP; glad the paint was still obvious to you!

The other tough part of that course for me is the sharp right turn right after Papa Bear. There's maybe an old restaurant on the corner, and you turn and do the climb. It comes at about miles 53 and 109, and it's short but savage. Actually, when I did IMLP in '04, the second time was seemingly much easier. I guess I could smell the barn by then!


I haven't ridden on that course since late May '05, I think, but as I remember it, the climb up from Wilmington is a classic example of the advantages of staying seated and spinning -- until Papa Bear, just as you did! Now, whether or not I actually did that on race day......I can't remember!

On to Newtons!

ANNE once more -

Well, there's also thoughts about IMLP and Musselman, but those'll come later. For now, Newtons.

They now have five or six models for women, excluding all-weather ones and the new line of trail-friendly ones:
Distance (neutral racer)
Gravity (neutral trainer)
Distance S (stability racer)
Motion (stability trainer)
Universal
Lady Isaac

The first two are for people with medium to high arches, while the next two are for those with medium to low arches. However, the medial posting in Newtons is relatively minimal, so I think that most people with anything less than extremely high arches or ferociously low arches could wear them. I'll get back to these four further down.

The universal is a Newton-exclusive concept, begun with the all-weather ones, I believe. What it offers is some posting both laterally and medially, with the thought being that it can correct biomechanical faults for all types of runners. It is a nifty idea, but my own feeling is that it might not work for the far extremes -- severe overpronators and full-tilt underpronators. But, I haven't heard anything critical about them, so they have to be working well for most people who are trying them.

I believe all five of the above have the same structure on the sole, with those four quite-prominent lugs. This basic structure changes a bit with the Lady (and Sir) Isaac model, as the lugs are slightly reduced in size. Also, the heel is slightly more built-up compared with the others. Newton bills this model as the one to maybe try for people who are transitioning to a more midfoot or forefoot running style, which is their way of saying that for folks who have been heavy heel-strikers......they might want to try Sir and Lady. Two things will happen here -- the shoe will not so dramatically "encourage" the mid- or fore-foot strike, and if people are having trouble learning to get off of landing on their heels, the shoe will last longer.

Here's some quick history:
(1) When newton began in '07, they were uncompromising, even saying that if you weren't ready to get off your heels, their shoes weren't for you.
(2) Their early literature did not mention midfoot -- it was all forefoot, that was the Holy Grail. To be accurate, there was the infrequent use of "midfoot", but the overwhelming notion was "forefoot".
(3) I got ambushed by this myself, in that when I began with newtons in Nov '07, I was in the class that was taught "forefoot". So i went out and tried really hard to get waaaaay out and up on my toes, and that's where the calf misery began, which led to PF, which led to Achilles. In short, it took me quite a while to get myself straightened out!
(4) The first couple years of Newtons, especially for the racer models, had shoes that were incredibly soft in the heel. So, any heel-striking or inadvertent heel-contact chewed up the heels really quickly. (That's why the heels on Sir and Lady are more built-up).
(5) Newton got slammed pretty good early on, with legions of runners writing on the forums that their calves were annihilated by them. The response to this was two-fold: they got less uncompromising in their literature, and they introduced Sir and Lady.
(6) As for the literature, there are two big differences: first, they now use "midfoot" much more freely, and second, they "allow" that contact will happen at the heel, and that this is fine -- really! A few years ago they wouldn't admit that at all, but now they are quick to say what most people know -- that just the act of levering the foot and landing and all will cause the heel to make some contact with the ground, even for confirmed forefoot strikers.
(7) Having said that, the goal is STILL AND ALWAYS to not land on the heel as first contact. So maybe the way to think of it is heel-striking is bad, but heel-"brushing" is okay!
(8) Lady and Sir are heavier than the other models, in large part because they are more built-up so as to accommodate the runner who needs more time to transition from heel-striking to landing in a more desirable and more forward position. They also lack the wonderful open-mesh of the other models, which is a huge benefit for me -- that feature, combined with running sockless, means I never have hot feet!
(9) Bless their hearts, the four basic models have not changed since their introduction in '07. There have been some really subtle tweaks in material to reduce weight, and colors have changed some, but the uppers have remained the same. So I could do a blind test with my five pairs of Distance going back to '07, and could not tell which is which. That is so welcomed from something like my previous go-to shoe, the Asics DS Trainer, which underwent radical design changes from one year to the next. Grrr! There were some incarnations I couldn't even wear, and would have to scurry to find who still carried my size in the previous incarnation. Grrr, grrr!!

Most of the above was probably useless info. Urp. Guess I got carried away!

To the crux of the matter, then!!

I have gone through/am working through five pairs of the Distance and five pairs of the Gravity. The differnces in them initially appear subtle, but the Distance consistently performs better than the Gravity -- that is, it is faster for me. It weighs a few grams less (on kitchen scale, for size 12 men, Dist is about 10.50g and Grav is 10.90g), with both being remarkably light, period. The price is a caution, though, at $155 for Dist and $175 for Grav. So, while the Grav wears a bit better (that is, doesn't wear out quite so fast), I will probably stay just with the Distance in the future and save that $20 per shoe.

As for Sir and Lady, i have only tried on the Sir - at Fallen Arches, as it turns out! Gail, the owner, would've loved for me to buy a pair so i could give her feedback on them as they compare with the others, but by that point I had long-since learned how to make the others work for me, and I also just didn't like the more "clunky" feel of the Sir Isaac.

Soooooooo.............1473 words later............if you are a heel-striker, you might want to try the Lady. If you are definitely high-arched and not a hard-core heel-striker, go with either Distance or Gravity. If you are medium or low-arched, the Distance S or Motion would be best. If in doubt, the last two might be best. What have you been in, in your most recent running days?

Have I answered any questions for you.....or just muddied the waters? If it's the latter, let me know and I will try again!

ANNE lasttimefornow! -

Forget Lady Isaac. I think if the neuroma issue is big for you, you want the biggest lugs.

I am convinced that it is the arrangement of those klugs that solved my neuroma problems, and Tracey's too. I may not know much about feet, but Newton says that the lugs work to separate the metatarsals, and I am sure it is that spreading that worked to eliminate my neuromatic tendencies.

I find it telling that most orthotics will provide a metatarsal "bar" that spans the shoe from side to side.....and which doesn't always improve neuromas. And then there is the Newton model, which has four "bars" (their lugs) which run from front to back in direction, and are spaced.

If I had a few hundred thousand dollars to invest, i would develop a line of over-the-counter orthotics for neuroma sufferers that lloke just like the bottom of Newton shoes!

A last piece of history is that the founders of Newton spent years in the orthotics business. I think they maybe knew something that few orthopedic people seemed to fully grasp! Or, they were more willing to look outside the bubble for soemthing that is not the norm.

And that's that!!

TRACEY -

Thank you for all the details of what you have planned for the next while. You are more active than I had thought, sneaking in a few other races as well!

It is a very nice schedule for you, building logically to the 10km. I will leave the costume decision up to you........but I'm sure you know what I would do!

Terrible, terrible weekend for the Sox, although whomping TB last night was some comfort. They're maybe 6.5 games behind them, but losing that Sunday game to Chicago was a killer. I left it when they up 5-3, and was devasated to see they lost 7-5. Ouch, ouch, ouch.

THIS COMING WEEKEND --

ANNE at Wasaga Beach.....yes?

SteveA at Malibu......yes?

And is that it?

I have returned.  I have not really been anywhere but I have removed myself from all triathlon stuff this past week.  Mostly focused on eating lots of "bad" food - steaks, cheeseburgers, pizza, augratins, Toll House pie with ice cream, etc, etc.  Actually, I don't feel well.  That stuff is not good for you on a daily basis Today, I'm back to healthy eating and I ran a little this am.

Denise

Yup.  It's just 2 blocks from our house.  But I don't ride it as much when I'm heavy into training because it's so flat.  I sometimes ride south to Pequot Lakes or north to Backus (both about 9 miles one-way).  The trail isn't real scenic around here because it just follows Hwy 371.  Pequot is better than Backus because they've got cute shops and ice cream and Backus just has a bar. 

Are you guys sure you want to be up here? It's gotten down in the 30s a couple times this week.

Why don't you stop by our place if you have time and you're not too far away - or meet at a coffee shop or something?

Denise

SteveB,

You mentioned cooking competition shows.  I am so addicted.  "Top Chef" I never miss - also watch "Chopped". "Next Iron Chef", "Top Chef Masters", "Top Chef: Just Desserts" (new).  But I don't like Gordon Ramsey (Hell's Kitchen) shows because they seem so artificially dramatic.

Denise

Anne,

Glad you're back.  Enjoyed reading your posts.  How exciting that you're thinking of doing IMLP.  I am very impressed.

Denise

DENISE -

Tollhoused into guilt, you have returned! Well, whatever it takes I'm thankful for it!

I my typical lamebrain way, we have satellite but i don't really know what we have. At various points I have added packages, which means I have been intersted in one channel, and in getting that one you also have a few more that come with it. So, it was only about a month ago that I learned we had the Cooking Channel. I have no idea what it is attached to, that is, what channel I wanted initially that is in its package, but I'm glad I have it. Until then, "Hell's Kitchen" seemed to be the only act in town, but now I know there is a plethora of cooking shows. The trick now (kind of like with Toll House products ) is to approach them in moderation, just because they are omnipresent. But, i will look at the ones that you recommend --- and I think Iron Chef is on tonight!!!

STEVE,

This is GREAT information and I thank you for ALL of it.   I have been on-line and also called a couple of stores that carry Newtons - Running Free in Milton and Barrie.   I will be in Barrie on Friday - staying there that night and heading to Wasaga Saturday morning.   Do you buy your shoes on-line or from a local store?

Watched a you-tube video on Newtons that was quite informative as well.

I was tempted to stick with my old shoes next week - starting the run program on Monday night - and see how my foot is, but I am getting a bit antzy to just go ahead and buy some Newtons. 

YES, that was the climb I was referring to.   Ken took a picture of me as I was approaching the top - kind of neat.   It IS an energy-sapper but it wasn't TERRIBLE, and I absolutely LOVED the view after that.   I cannot believe what you say about people actually cutting the course short on Haselton.   VERY sleazy! 

I am really glad they have the course the way they do.    That would be a killer coming out of Keene.   Were it that way, I wouldn't even consider it, I don't think.