GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 235)

DENISE -

Mega-thanks for the photo!! While I've seen a few of you, I do believe that's a first of Lisa. It really is incredible that one can spend months yabbering away with people with still not really know much about them. I'm sure there have been reams and reams written/posted about the "new age" of communications that works this way, but it is so different from my days of writing people actual letters, wherein everyone I wrote to I mostly knew quite well.

But Emily Dickinson wrote to Thomas Wentworth Higginson for several years, and neither really knew a whole lot about the other, so.......

ANYHOW, it is a great photo and one that I will make a note of as being on this day and on this page. Merci!

DENISE again -

Well, it's a common problem at many irons, not just MOO. Or maybe I should say it's a common problem with many people, although I guess some races "favor" it happening more than others.

I think at MOO it's a matter of hitting the rollers, and attacking them -- because that's what you usually do with rollers. But they just keep coming and coming and coming, and if there hasn't been some restraint along the way, they wear you out. Were I to do MOO I would try to force myself to spend the first hour riding momentum as much as possible, and staying in an easy gear on the climbs and spinning as lightly/gently as possible. But really -- what do I know about how to do MOO is the heat of the moment?

At Lake Placid, it is easy to go out too fast because you want to get to the massive descent into Keene as soon as possible. Once you've done that there is a nice stretch of mostly flat which encourages pushing hard. And then the troubles begin with a long gradual climb, then some pesky rollers, and then the big lengthy stairstep climb back to LP -- and that's just the first loop! So, it's really easy to blow too much on the first loop.

And for someone like me who came out (1:25) a bit to the other side of the middle of the pack on the swim, there were so many people to catch in the early miles of the bike. the roiads were mobbed, and while I wasn't exactly trying to "reel in" people, they were there and it just seemed to be the time-honored thing to do. DOH!

And as a slow learner....
I can make excuses for why I rode too hard for the first 45 miles of Half Vermont a couple weeks ago....but that doesn't escape the fact that I was stupid Double DOH!

On to the next!



Edited by stevebradley 2010-09-14 4:49 PM

DENISE once more -

I hope I'm not repeating myself here, but as for meniscus problems....

I tore mine in March '06. It took several months to get the MRI imaging done, and what was shown was a longitudinal tear. My sports doctor did not think surgery was viable, as too much of the cartilage would need to be removed; a specialist supported this view. So, i just let it heal on its own.

I frequently worry that it will tear again, and I'm not sure why it doesn't. (I'm also not 100% sure how it tore in the first place.) I work it hard enough on a regular enough basis, but since '06 I have not gone overboard on the long distances. I have done five half-irons, and last fall I did 99.9% of the training for a marathon before an ITB issue 10 days out from it forced me to bail on it. Having said that, though, I will quickly add that there was NO suggestion that running big miles led to the torn meniscus!

Soooooo........If you have the itch to do something longer, and if your doctor suggests against it, you might want to find a sports doctor for an independent consultation. There are alot of doctors out there who firmly believe that endurance activities are bad for us, and that in doing them we bring on our own misery. In many cases they may be correct, but as a sweeping opinion I have my doubts.

Clearly, though, for people at our age these things can be deal-breakers, so for you it might be best to be active at shorter stuff rather than not be active at all. But now having said THAT, I'll add that scores of people have suffered torn meniscii and returned full-bore to serious endurance training and racing, and never had a further problem. And having not had surgery for mine, i can't even say whether surgery actually serves to reduce the problem or perhaps even eliminate it. If your surgery involved excising a "flap" of meniscus, then I see it as a problem removed. Gone. Not to bother you ever again.

So if you have the itch, see a specialist. You may in fact get the same response as given to you by your g.p., and if that's the case then you are "free" to carry on with the degree of training and racing you are currently doing. But at least you'll know!

Sometimes these really tough injuries can bear good fruit. My tibial stress fracture in '00 is what got me from straight running into triathlon, and so for years I have referred to it as my "best bad injury". Then along came the meniscus, and the long story to that is that it prompted me to spend more time on sprints and olys, which I have grown to REALLY love a lot. Left to my own devices, I likely would've continued to put a higher priority on the longer distances...........which, given that I am not at all "bionic", would've resulted in different injuries. So, I have gotten fast at the shorter stuff, and mostly I am injury-free, Win-win!

(But the bug is still there for HIM and IM -- which explains my on-going wrestling with the specifics of the end to this season......and next season in its entirety....and on and on and on!)

STEVE -

Really fine report, and you definitely benefiited from one of the "out-of-body" observer-races, where you have a real good read on how and why you performed the way you performed. Some raxces I see that clearly, others I don't have a clue. Being "out-of-body" is always good for the post-mortem!

Your swim sounds brilliant, and I'm sure you saved a ton of energy in sighting the way you did -- off others who were actively sighting. (There are so many cool strategies to how to maximize a swim!) Not having the waves top ride back in had to have made a many-seconds difference....as would functioning in 58 degrees. Yikes!

Your T1 experience is simlar to that led me to abandon socks on the bike (a decision that has become easier as I now run sockless). Back in the day when I ran with socks, i put them on in T1 -- even when cleaning sandy or muddy feet took too much time. And then it dawned on me -- why do it then, especially if I don't even like riding in socks? So, for several years I haven't even bothered cleaning off my feet -- into the cleats they go, as is. I never feel the sand when I ride*, and by the time I get to T2 they are dry and sand-free -- perfect for donning socks, if that's what you do. The socks had to come on at some point, and to me T2 made far better sense than T1.

*At times when I actually bring too much sand into the cleats, at some safe point I just remove my feet and kick the cleats into a spin, and out goes the sand!

Multiple "no-pass" zones?? Ugh! One is bad enough; multiple would be miserable. But you did what I would've done -- looked back and then go for it. There was a long one at Escape the Cape in June, and I, along with others, just did the pass without even looking ---- just held my breath until the results and penalty times were posted a few hours later! ("WHEW!!!!!")

Very good run, especially having the presence of mind to differentiate between an injury and a "mere" hurt. That's always a tough call, although a bit easier the shorter the race ( better to "walk in" two miles than nine, or sixteen!) But great final two miles, and Amen! to getting on the long-distance stare.

How was your a.g. placement compared to last year? Was it at all satisfying?

Finally, dropping a few pounds before Silverman will make a huge difference. For a case study of this, visit the photos posted by hooslisa at the other group, on the most recent page there. One is from May, the other from a couple weeks ago at IMLouisville. She has always been a good triathlete, and posted strong times earlier thsi season at Rumpass and Columbia and Eagleman. But her resultt at LOO was superb, as was what she did on Sunday at the Reston oly. I can't imagine that she has lost much more than five pounds since May, but her current leanness is obviously proving to be an ideal race physiognomy for her.




Edited by stevebradley 2010-09-14 9:29 AM

Anne,

Read your log - looks like you survived your begin-to-run 1st day.  Reminds me very much of the "Couch to 5K" program that I started with 6 years ago. 
Good luck as you continue,
Denise

STEVE again -

I will think abit more about your nutrition, but at first galnce that is a lot of gel for the amount of time you were on the course. And along the same lines, that might be too many calories (from the bars) for you to get in before it even begins.

If anything I err the other way with too little before a race, but I never have cramping or bloating problems so that might be one good side effect of less-than optimal pre-race nutrition.

The low-gal Gatorade should reduce some of the cramping and bloating temdencies, but i will try to find out what exactly is in it.

And returning to the bars, are the Promax ones protein-rich? If os, that might be a big contributor right there. While there is a lot of diverse thought on the benefits of protein while racing (or even training), I think tat most of the benefits come into play when the efforts are longer. At shorter races such as Malibu where your effort is more intense, your body might not be assimilating the protein as well as it should, hence the cramping. Maybe?

As for the gels, a general rule of thumb is about every 45 minutes, but once you started doing them at Malibu you were taking them (rough guesstimate) every 30-35 minutes. For me at an oly, it would be one before the swim, maybe one about mile 20 of the bike, and if necessary one about mile 3 or 4 of the run. If the bike is going well and I'm feeling good, it'll be a gel in the final mile, and none of the run. So, at most for an oly, 3 gels....and often just two.

Added to that will be about 20oz of HEED or similar on the bike, and then whatever energy drink is one the run, alternating with water. BUT, nothing is ever quite the same -- certainly not how I feel! And as I wrote in my Half Vemont race report, once again I "shut down" on a half-iron run, so the quest continues for a way to do my nutrition better at that distance. I say that just so you know that it might take lots of trail-and-error before you get to a system that works most of the time, and under most conditions. Happy hunting and gnoshing!

ANNE -

Denise is right -- it sounds like Day One went really well! I am really pleased that the Newtons passed the first test in several ways, and I hope they continue to work well for you. When is your next run session with her? And, are you going to "supplement" those with runs of your own.....or just be a straight arrow and keep to her plan?

Thanks Denise.   Started out at the back of the group but by the end was up at the front of the group, so it is a good thing I am using this program to get kick-started.     

Lisa/Denise - awesome picture of you all!!

I am back from Baxter and just thought I would share a picture...but now I can't figure out how to upload it from my computer.  Dang.  Why can't you just upload a photo directly from your computer to here I wonder?  OK so I can't figure it out and am tired of trying!     You are going to get the whole she-bang, check out my blog HERE

OHHH  Lobsterman this weekend!! I need to catch up on some reading (AGAIN!)

Cheers,

Mandy

I'm really pleased with the Newtons as well.   I'm still pretty nervous about something going wrong and not being able to run so am holding back on my enthusiasm for a bit.    We run Mon and Thur.   From what I remember before, they suggest you supplement it with another run on the weekend, which we plan to do.   Will also throw one long power walk in as a subsitute for a long run.    Going to back off a bit on the bike for the next couple of weeks to keep the legs fresh for running.  

Not sure what to do about Thursday - lots of rain forecasted and we can't wear the Newtons in that.   Do I run with other shoes, or wait and do a run on Wed or Friday, on our own, instead.  

Great picture, Denise !

If anyone wants to read a truly inspiring race report, check out SSMinnow's Ironman Wisonsin.   She has a RR link in her log.  
STEVE - I noticed she talked about spin, spin, spin on the bike (I believe you mentioned that being the way to go).   She let all the 'grinders' pass her but she passed 650 of them on the run!  

Hey Steve,

Regarding Nautica and the fun factor - I had a great time actually.  It was really fun to get out and race again - it'd been way too long!  Like I said, I was very loose before the race.  My wife, Maggie, even commented that I was so much more pleasant to be around the day before and on the way to the race.  Normally, I'm very quiet and in my head.  I think doing the HIM and IM earlier in the season gave me the confidence to not stress about this distance as much.  When the "can I finish?" question is largely answered (aside from a catastrophic event happening like a crash, multiple flats, etc.), it makes the experience more relaxing.

Thanks for the advice on the nutrition.  Yes, those Promax bars are protein rich (20g each).  I normally would not eat that much either - I made sure to eat the first one a good 2 hours before the event.  But, I'd been feeling a bit run down in the days leading up to the race (feared a cold coming on), so I panicked a bit and downed another - almost certainly too close to the race.  Same thing on the hammer gels - I think I was overcompensating for what I perceived as a lack of fitness and was trying to "feed" my way to endurance that day.  LOL.  Lessons learned.  Your right, at that distance, it's probably better to under feed than over feed.

As for overall results - eh.  Last year I was 30/135 in the AG (22%).  This year I was 42/114 (36%).  It makes sense.  It was an ideal racing day, cool, overcast, a little bit of mist.  Like I said, I had a very high HR on the bike, but felt strong, not jagged - the cool weather was probably keeping me in the game somewhat, but was helping the stronger racers even more. 

Next year, I get to go up in an AG, so I'll be one of the young pups in the higher AG.  So I'll have that going for me.

Anyway, after a Sunday day off, I was back in the pool yesterday, and up early today for a trainer and short brick.  My legs were a bit dead, so I tried to take it a bit easy and didn't push as hard as I normally do.  Legs were a little tender on the run (just 2 miles).  I'll ice again tonight, go for a walk with the wife, and go for a longer run tomorrow.  At lunch today, I'll be mapping out my weekend long ride - time to find some new hills to play on. 

Oh, and regarding weight - yep.  Just a few pounds will make a huge difference.

I've decided to keep a food journal for the next few weeks.  Try to keep an eye on what I'm eating - I figure as I ramp the mileage again, I should be able to shed at least a few pounds.  If I can get back to around 165 or so, I think I'll be in good shape for Silverman.

I saw hooslisa's photos/profile.  Yep, when you're starting out at 118 or so, 4-5 pounds is pretty huge!  At my chunky 172, maybe I should shoot for 10 instead of 5.   Maybe I'll call Jenny Craig.  LOL.

STEVE -

The fun factor has to count for a lot, especially when it is noticed by those close to you. I have really grown to love olys and sprints, and in no small part because of the fun factor. Ot maybe it's the opposite -- the absence of a fear factor ( ). You know, the whole bonk thing! Just going into knowing that whatever suffering there is will end after about 2.5 hours........that's pretty sweet.

And then there's the requisite training, which is that much more mellow for olys and sprints. I'm in a "block" now where I have two olys coming up back-to-back, and whenever I think of doing a two-hour ride, or even a 75-minute run, I think -- why? That's kind of ignoring whatever might be down the road, but if I'm building/peaking for a specific race, or two, I shouldn't be looking too far ahead, right?

Mellow training. After this little block, I have three options:
oly+ on Oct. 17
HIM on Oct 30
IM on Nov 13
As it gets colder up here pretty soon, my interest in training long diminishes rapidly. So, to contemplate the oly+ is easy -- I can OWS right up until race day, and any rides for a 30-mile on race day are not daunting. For the HIM, that is about two weeks after I can comfortably/safely OWS, and it is pushing things a bit to fit in three-hour rides in prep for it. And for the iron! Uh, I'm going to do 5-6 hour rides in early November??????? (Well, maybe.....)

All three of those are in NC, which reduces the fun factor a bit because of the longish drive. And that might've increased the fun factor for you at Malibu; how far is that for you to go? Certainly vastly closer than Showdown or SG or Vine or Silver!

But I natter.

The 20g of protein per Promax isn't ridiculously high, really. Some people will have an egg and a couple of pieces of bacon before a race, and how much protein is that? (Mind you, I cannot imagine trying to race after eating eggs and bacon, but some people do it quite well.) And at least the Promax bar isn't loaded with fats and grease and god knows what else.

Hammer takes a real "hard-line" on pre-race eating, and that's somehwre on their website. On the other hand, they recommend Sustained Energy as a pre-race meal in and of itself, and I have tried that and it has worked okay. There is protein in S.E., but it is somewhere under 20g per serving, I think. (Just checked - it's 10.5g.)

The new age group! Christmas comes but once every five years! You're going from a tough one into a tough one, but at least you'll be one of the youngsters. That's an advantage to aging -- each age group from herein in will be slightly easier for you! In another 21 years you'll be in my a.g., which is sure easier than 35-39! (Cold comfort for being 61............ )

Have fun mapping out you new cycling playgrounds!

ANNE -

I haven't gotten to SSMinnow's MOO RR, but I would like to. I tried last night via various IMMOO connections, but couldn't manage it. (And then I got sidetracked by RRs for Pinehurst!) What's the quickest way to get there from here?

Anyhow, i am glad to hear that I am not full of beans in what I felt was the correct approach to take to the MOO bike course. I think as I suggested earlier in the post to Denise, it's important to leave one's ego at the door (or the flap to the T1 changing tent) of an ironman bike. But just from what I know about MOO -- even more important there. There will just be scores of people trying to beat the rollers into submission (or will them into not really existing!), and to try to keep up with those folks will spell ruin for anyone who's not a really strong and smart cyclist.

But preaching is SO much easier than practicing! At HVJ I got sucked into that game myself and it took me about ten miles to get smart -- and by then some of the damage had been done. I went the whole first loop on Route 7 without being passed, and then just after the northernmost turnaround I saw two cyclists approaching it, maybe about 30 seconds behind me. Sure enough, within a mile they passed me, and I worked hard to keep up with them. We played cat-and-mouse until a few miles north of the southernmost turnaround, and then I backed off as they were more relentless/stronger than I was, and I knew it was a losing battle -- especially with the run to follow.

What "inspired" me? I would like to think it was just using them to pace myself better.......but in fact I think ego was a significant part of it. Even now, I can't be sure, and maybe it doesn't really matter. The thing is that I allowed them to alter my own race, and it's not as if they "mattered" -- she was 38, he was 28. It is only some satisfaction that I passed him before mile one on the run, so at least I was wise enough to back off when I did. She, on the other hand, knew what she was up to --- she passed me, going the other way, when I was at about mile 5 and she was at mile 7! (She was one of Team Cyclonaut, btw.)

How are you feeling today, kneewise and legwise? Are you experiencing any calf complaints from a first run in the Newtons??

Anne/SteveB,

Just looked at your Vermont pics (it's been raining all day and I can't work outside.

Steve - Nice bright yellow top.  Great pic with the sunflowers and you looking toward the camera.  A lot of the run ones, you're looking down so I don't like as much.

Anne - I really like the head-on ones where you're smiling.

Denise

Anne: Where can I find your race pics?

Tracey

----------------------------------SATURDAY (9-18) AT THE RACES!------------------------------------



MANDY
Lobsterman Triathlon (.93 - 24.7 - 6.2)
South Freeport, ME
9am start


ME
Lake George Triathlon (.9 - 24.8 - 6.2)
Lake George, NY
(8:30 start......8:42 for me in wave 5)




Random Notes:
Mandy's swim is in Casco Bay, which is ALWAYS chilly! For a nifty photo of the swim, go to www.tri-maine.com, click on Lobsterman, click on Info. I did this race two years ago, and we camped at the race site and woke up to the sun rising over Casco Bay. Mercy!

The view north, up Lake George, is almost as nice as Casco Bay; well, nice, but it ain't the Atlantic Ocean!

The big reason to finish Lobsterman is a boiled lobster feast after, with a whole lobster for each participant. Beats a bagel and a banana, huh?

The items in the raffle at Lake George each have a container in front of them, and so you can put your raffle tickets in whichever container you choose. They sell tickets at an arm's length of them for $10. Last year I put most of my tickets (thank god for long arms!) in the container for a free entry into the 2010 race AND a two-night stay at Canoe Island Lodge, six meals included ---- and I WON! So, we're down there this year having paid only $3.84 (those darn Active.com service charges!) for the entry.

The Lobsterman t-shirt from two years ago was an unusual shade of maybe-maroon, and featured a goofyish lobster that was wrapped around the right side of the shirt at about rib-cage level. Great shirt!

Lake George is the only race I have ever done where each mile on the bike is marked.

DENISE -

Yeah, that's me in Suffer Mode. You know, I don't have a recollection of focusing that much on the ground 6 inches in front of me, but there it is!

The one where I'm grinning to the camera is a real rarity, as I seldom display any emotion in any of my photos. I do have some recollection of him being in a field and smiling over at him.....but it too is not at all clear.

So, where exactly IS my brain during these things?!?

STEVE -

The way you sighted during the Malibu swim, staying parallel with guys to your left who were sighting ahead frequently, but not sighting ahead much yourself.......you were a PARASIGHT!

(Never mind....)

Thanks for the mention Steve!  I am psyched about Lobsterman...but you can have the Lobster, I don't like those things at all.  And yes, I know exactly what I am missing! (Usually people tell me that I don't know what I am missing.) 

It is a great atmosphere post-race though for sure. The free Grittys now, I am all in on!!!

Current Buoy Temp?? 59 degrees in Casco Bay, 60 degrees in Harpswell.  Not that I am following it too closely or anything. BRRR!  Maybe at least it is too cold for sharks, jellyfish and things that can eat me, right???? (you all know about my irrational fear of swimming in the ocean, so don't tell me I am wrong).

Swim last year: 31:59; 2010 goal? 30 min (really, I am not that fast of a swimmer, lets hope for that good ole current to push me like last year)
Bike last year: 1:29; 2010 goal?  1:25 or better
Run last year: 57:14; 2010 goal? Well, I would like to do at least the same. Running hasn't been my strong point this year so we will see.
Last year's time: 3h03m; 2010 goal? <3hrs

Best of luck in Lake George Steve B!  I predict another WIN!

Mandy

MANDY -

Back from the Solo-Plus-One? And no comments? Come ON!

Yes, for sure, anything with teeth larger than a penpoint and tenatcles longer than the end joint of your pinky will not be anywhere NEAR water that is sub-70, so you're fine!

I too am not a lobster-eater, so that part means nothing to me. And as a non-drinker, that is wasted on me as well. But the spirit and camaraderie post-Lobsterman -- top notch!

My own goals are to better the following......
31:29
1:38
1:11:20
1:25
45:54

...or some combination thereof......

....that will put me under 2:31:46.

Last year I won the a.g. by a lot, like 11 or 14 minutes I think, but that was then and this was now. Win Thomas is back, and back in the day he was outstanding and could whump me easily on any given day. I think he has lost some interest in being really competitive, and maybe just does races now for the heck of it. Or maybe he has rediscovered his Ineer Triathlete and will whump me on Saturday.

The rpedictions for L.G. are for cold air temps in the morning, whic will work in my favor in tat I will take a gamble and not get layered in T1. Last year most of the rest of the field got bundled up, so I saved a pile of time in T1. I may very well go hypothermic at mile 9 of the bike, but that's the chance I'm willing to take.

I told Anne a few days ago that one of my tricks last year was putting some of those Grabber foot-warmers in my cleats while I was on the swim, and when I got to my bike the insides were toasty. The only other concession I made was having my arm-warmers draped on my aerobars and putting them on within the first mile or so. Other than that, it as just me, dripping wet in my regular old tri top and bottom. Brrr?

The advantage I will have over you is water temp, with the current one at LG being 67, I think. I guess thta's another spin on the term "cold comfort"!

And how was the solo, anyhow???

Hey I put a comment on, and...Crickets...no one said anything so I figured no one was interested, which is totally cool BTW.  I ended up going with my friend Erin (she hopped on the trip last minute) and it was awesome.  Go to my blog for the report and pictures!  I can't figure out how to put them here, and the report isn't the same without the pictures!! Honest!! I might change my avatar to a non-tri one, but that might be blasphamy! ha ha ha

Win Thomas, Shwin Thomas.  You got him!!    I am sure you are totally going to nail your goals for this race - is this your last one of the season?

I am skipping layering in T1 too, which may be a mistake.  But who knows.  Temps are predicted to be in the 60's - we should have similar weather but seriously, last year I didn't check the buoy temp, so I was oblivious to the fact the water was that cold, I mean, I felt it, but you know...Winnett is doing this one and she has been training right on course since she lives in Freeport, I am staying at her house Friday night.

Mandy

Steve and Mandy - Good luck this weekend!  Knock em dead!