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2009-02-20 7:40 PM
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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

I am heading out for 3 x 1 mile at 5K pace with 1min rest.

 

Then...swim for 2500yds.

 

Then cuban food!



2009-02-20 7:44 PM
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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

SAX -

Can I come too?
2009-02-20 7:57 PM
in reply to: #1974004

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

LISA -

Do you really want to know??
Okay then!

I moved out to Edmonton, Alberta, from Maine, in early January '74. I was transferring to University of Alberta, and during registration I niticed her; she just caught my eye. Then I began seeing her around the Life Sciences building (sort of like in "American Grafitti", where Kurt [Richard Dreyfuss]) keeps catching glimpses of the blonde [Suzanne Sommers] in the T-Bird, but always at a distance, and fleeting). Then I started seeing her in the zoology/botany section of the main library.....and also at a leftist-leaning film series, attended by maybe 30 people at the best of times. Finally, after one of the films, I struck up some dopey conversion, likely using a lame line that combined apartheid and bird populations (I seem to have blocked out the exact woeful conversation starter.... ). So, we actually started hanging around, usually mid-way through evening lbrary sessions, where we'd go out into the deep winter chill of Edmonton, share oranges and Turtles (a chocolate and nut confection), and hope the Northern Lights were on display. And that's how we met.

Now don't you wish you hadn't asked?
2009-02-20 8:08 PM
in reply to: #1973881

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LISA again -

Thank you for humoring an old man. That took my mind off my tedium for a while!

The only century rides I have done have been necessary evils of my two irons. I think I hit mid-90 miles on another, but that's it. I live in the middle of nowhere, and I don't have training partners, so heading off on a century just gets me too far from home --- and, I have a propensity towards flat tires!

I have done SCORES of metric centuries, but you and I both know that they're just a poor cousin - a mere stroll in the park - compared to the real deal of 100 MILES.

I should check my logs just to see what all I have done. I know I'm a slacker about this, and I really should do better. (But the Statute Of Limitations on '09 resolutions has expired, so I'll have to wait until next January to make that commitment! )
2009-02-20 8:15 PM
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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

LISA once more -

I wouldn't consider it warped at all. Unique, perhaps, but hardly warped. At the very least, it makes those Special Events in one's relationship stand out with a bit more clarity!

Plan on being married at least 50 years, and do a marathon each of those years, each in a different state, either on Valentine's Day or your actual anniversary - hopefully, it's in the fall. Allow yourself one month on either side of either of those days to optimize race possibilities!

South Carolina down, 49 more to go!!
2009-02-20 9:34 PM
in reply to: #1896958

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

STEVE,

I LOVE raw cookie dough! But won't it spoil during the race? I could get a tummy ache hehe. Unless I mix in lots of preservatives... I'm going to try some different 'real foods' and see how things go. 

I just got done watching 'Badwater', that Death Valley Ultramarathon. Golly, that is a keeper. I watched it while doing my bike-run brick and seeing all that pain made my workout feel too easy in comparison! I can imagine how bad blisters could get after 100+ miles of pavement pounding. Maybe running with toughened bare feet would take care of that blister problem hehe. Not that my feet are tough or anything. Just a thought.

Tomorrow is swimming day yippee! And Spencer and I are going climbing for our belated anniv. date. Yay!

Have a great weekend all! 



2009-02-20 10:11 PM
in reply to: #1896958

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

Steve...sorry I didn't realize you wanted to go. Maybe next time.

 

Well I had to cut the swim out tonight.  Took me longer than expected to finally get to the gym.  Hollywood is packed tonight...I guess everybody is in town for the Oscars.  Did I mention I live 3 blocks from the Kodak theater...so yeah it's mayhem here sometimes.

 

Today was a good day about 75 degrees.

 

Oh wait this isn't a blog...

 

So anyway, I did 3 x 1 mile repeats on the treadmill at 7:18pace with .5incline.  The first one was fine, took about 90sec then did the second...it was a little more painful and HR got up to 172 but I stayed strong...took about 3 min after that one.  Third one was def hard, got HR up to 185 and felt like slowing for a split second (that down arrow can be so conveinent) but I stayed true, kept the breathing steady and the form solid (b/c if not I knew I would be hurting later).  Then I ran another .75 mile to cool down slow.  Great workout.  I think that is the fastest I have done my mile repeats since starting up this training.  So I suppose in 6 weeks or so I will have these in the 6's...oh my! 

 

So seeing how I took 90sec, then 180sec to cool down b/t sets...is that important?  I was aiming for 60sec but it wasn't happening at that intensity.  SO what is the goal/importance of these types of workouts?

 



Edited by sax 2009-02-20 10:15 PM
2009-02-20 10:31 PM
in reply to: #1974203

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL
gracetaBitha - 2009-02-20 10:34 PM

I just got done watching 'Badwater', that Death Valley Ultramarathon. Golly, that is a keeper. I watched it while doing my bike-run brick and seeing all that pain made my workout feel too easy in comparison! I can imagine how bad blisters could get after 100+ miles of pavement pounding. Maybe running with toughened bare feet would take care of that blister problem hehe. Not that my feet are tough or anything. Just a thought.

 Agreed! I was biking on the trainer today watching the Tour of California, and yeah, I felt like a wimp  

 And to answer your previous question, Grace, I use my watch to keep track of my laps - it has a little lap button so I just press that every 100 and I check every once in a while to see how close I am to finishing.  My problem on Wednesday was because I accidently pressed the lap button twice without realizing it, and I didn't notice because I don't really keep track in my head! I've seen people at the pool using like flip cards at the pool and flipping over lap numbers every couple of laps, but that seems tedious? Do you keep track in your head? I'd lose count after five laps! haha - my mind tends to wander

 Steve - again, THANKS SO MUCH for you posts on race nutrition.  I'm really going to take a good look at my plan for Mooseman, and I'm glad that I have 3.5 months and a FULL SERVICE MENTOR to talk me through it! Would you mind sending me your powdered drink sampler? I'll PM you my address and owe you a beer after Bassman (since your Achilles will have to agree with you!).

I am really interested in the InfinIT mixes, especially since they have personal mixes with the sliders - that is SO cool (in a nerdy, geeky kind of way!)  I'm also glad to hear that I'm not the only one who really can't stomach the powdered Gatorade - the Gatorade that I've used in my fuel belt is always the "A.M." kind - so its got a little less flavor than the stuff usually handed out at aid stations!

 I guess to get a further understanding of how this works - for the Hot Weather and Going Long mixes that you posted info on, why does the HW have so much less protein? I understand the sodium difference, and the InfinIT website explained the calorie difference, but why is the protein so different? 

 As for fuel belts- I definitely prefer not running with one too, and usually try not to wear one for half-marathons.  My hm pr was done without one, but my worst time ever in a hm was also done without one because I was dumb and left it at home even though it was hot (90% humidity and 85 degrees at 7 am kind of hot - yeah, I was being dumb)! I will probably bring it along for Mooseman since its not a stand alone hm and who knows what state I'll be in once I reach the run!

 After I read all your posts yesterday, I went back and looked at the "The Perfect Distance" book on HIM that I got with gift cards after Christmas... I had really just looked at the training plan and technique chapters, and kind of skipped over the nutrition chapters.  He also had a bit on the GI, which was interesting, especially since you just did a post on it too! 

All of that got me thinking - I think, that in addition to getting a plan together for actual race-day nutrition, I need to get a better handle on WHEN I eat during training.  I don't eat THAT poorly - probably better than average for a 24-year old But my current problem is these 8-10 pm classes, and my day time schedule - which is basically a LACK of schedule.  What I mean to say is, I have no set daily schedule for school, training or eating.  Every single day is different - and especially on swim days, I find myself swimming from 6-7:30 (including transit time), not having dinner, starting to crash during class and overeating on snacks, and then finally having dinner when I get home at 10:30, which can't be good since I go to bed right away after.    

Anyway, back to bed with me! This weekend I have a commitment that requires me to be at school from 9-5 tomorrow, and 10 am until MIDNIGHT on Sunday. UGH. I don't know how/when I'm going to fit in my 2 hour bike ride. I would do it early sunday morning (i.e. 7-9 am), but it's supposed to snow here... I might be trainer bound

2009-02-21 8:14 AM
in reply to: #1974203

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

GRACE -

I think cookie dough would last for a while, pre-race. Certainly the kinds you can but frozen, the stuff in the tubes, would have all sorts of preservatives in them, anyhow. The thing you really have to worry about is protein, and especially when the protein gets "activated" (there's a word for this - oxidized?) by water and heat. That's the big concern about using protein mixes, such as Accelerade, Perpetuem, and Sustained Energy during long races. I can tell you with 110% certainty that none of the Badwater or other ultra-distance athletes carry a bottle of any of the above with them for the entire race. It is liklely, however, that their sherpas, or support crews will mix it up for them moments before giving it to them -- and then take it back from them within an hour or two, even if there is still some left in the bottle.

I do not have tough feet, which is one of the many reasons I have never seriously considered an ultra. I am sure that the onset of blisters for me would happen by mile 50, and possibly earlier, depending. Of the 8 marathons I have done, however, blisters were not a concern.

Happy swim, happy climbing! Where are you climbing, and what will the temps be. Your weather can't be all that temperate compared to my weather, can it? (PA, correct?)

P.S. As for real-food thoughts, did you see the post I did on the glycemic index, yesterday I think? I WILL post a list of foods and their GI -- as soon as I can find one!
2009-02-21 8:15 AM
in reply to: #1896958

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

steve,

 well, if your relationship starter was American graffiti, then ours was that show Moonlighting.  you know, cybill shepard & bruce willis.... fought like cats and dogs at the office, couldn't see eye to eye at first, and then suddenly, well the rest is history.  i actually am REALLY glad i asked.  it is a question i ask all of my clients and have gotten some really amazing stories.  people usually love sharing that, and i love hearing it.  here is one of the coolest...  a couple i met who were in their 50s told me that she was an exchange student in high school and went to some country in south america (i can't remember where) for a year.  at that school she met this young man and they hit it off.  he was so heartbroken when she was getting ready to leave to go home that he proposed marriage, she said yes, they eloped and he left with her to come back to the u.s.  now, can you imagine being that girls parents when your high school daughter comes home from a study abroad program married!! ....but after 30+ years of marriage, you can't really doubt them anymore!  i think your story is sweet.  i smiling when imagining a "dopey" college-age steve trying to strike up a conversation with his crush from afar.....sweaty palms and dry mouth!

 ....myrtle beach was my 4th marathon.  Marine corps twice (DC), Baltimore once (md), and now myrtle (sc).  ryan did one marine corps with me, he did the half when i did the full in baltimore, and we both did myrtle....so we already have 3 states down!!!  we are I am thinking of doing Richmond in the fall to redeem myself from the myrtle disaster.  if he does that one, that will be 4...moving right along.

 NEIL...

this isn't a blog, but i always enjoy your posts.  i like hearing what other folks are up to....keep 'em coming.

2009-02-21 8:21 AM
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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

Grace & Jess,

 if you enjoy reading, check out Ultramarathon Man by Dean Karnazes.  it is a very quick and easy read.  The man is certifiably crazy, but it is very inspiring.  his website is ultramarathonman.com

 



2009-02-21 8:25 AM
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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

ALL

 i thought this was an interesting find.....

www.marathontours.com offer tour packages to some seriously out of the way marathons.  example: the antarctica marathon is actually already sold out for 2009 and 2010 and is already 40% full for 2011!  the pictures are amazing!

2009-02-21 8:53 AM
in reply to: #1974268

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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

SAX -

First, I love the accompanying photo! I know you're making a comparison between yourself and the horse ---- but it's not a gelding, is it? And, if horses have heels, it looks to be a hindlegs-heel-striker.

Second, feel free to treat this as a blog, as I really DO like reading the glorious weather accounts that you southern and otherwise sun-blessed folks post here. It just serves to give me hope that spring and summer will once again appear up this way.

Third, your workout. Well, it's sounds like a great one, and you are to be commended for staying "strong" and "true", and especially resisting the temptation to use that down button. But within your dedication to the integrity of the workout, you also provided yourself the time needed for more suitable recovery, and that was wise.

There can be a very long answer as to the goal/importance of these types of workouts, but I'll try to contain myself and just keep it relatively brief.

What you did yesterday was anaerobic threshold training, which happens at longer intervals of about 800-2000m (and a mile is what - about 1600 meters?). Some people might consider what you did to be just straight anaerobic, without the "threshold" part, but what makes yours A.T. is the distance combined with the fact that you didn't allow for full recovery between the three sets. So, in doing mile repeats, you were stressing your aerobic system, but the anaerobic comes in through holding a faster pace than that to which you are accustomed. Just the fact that you took 90s, then 180s, tells me that you went beyond your aerobic comfort zone. (Not to mention that you were so keenly eyeing that down button!)

So, why do we do those sorts of workouts? As I guess you know, it's all about conditioning ourselves to different stresses, with the goal of building adaptations to those stresses over time. (In your case yesterday, the stresses could be considered high-intensity ones.) The larger goal is to make it so that race-pace becomes easier, and your thought that 7:18 now might well be into the 6s in six weeks or so is EXACTLY why you did what you did yesterday.

Just a couple of final thoughts:
(1) In really high-paced intervals, one goes into oxygen debt and then enters into it again before all of the first debt is repaid; in other words, recovery is not complete. (And do this a few/many times, and the debtloads just keep piggy-backing on each other.) How you responded yesterday was by allowing yourself some level of decent recovery time between your miles, and you recognized that your body needed more time between miles 2 and 3 than between miles 1 and 2. The reason why it's good that you recognized and respected this is because....
(2) .....increased efficiency is more important than increased work output!!! I told Trevor a few days ago that once he feels his form falling apart on the swim, that's the time to end the workout. It's very easy in swimming to instill bad habits, and bad habits can breed like bunnies when one is tired, but still pushing hard for that yardage. With running, not only does one not want to build bad form/technique habits, but the chances of injuries resulting from bad form are dramatically increased. So, by taking ample time between the 2nd and 3rd miles, you very likely did the last one with pretty good form - you even say that, and combine it with a comment about breathing steady.
(3) Do you know what your max HR is? The 185 might be close to it, and your increase to that from the previous 172 tells me that you pushed the 3rd, but were also not preposterously beyond reasonable limits. Do you keep track of what your HR was at the end of the 90s and 180s?

Outstanding, Sax! (You're a stallion among geldings!)
2009-02-21 1:31 PM
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stevebradley - 2009-02-21 6:53 AM ... (3) Do you know what your max HR is? The 185 might be close to it, and your increase to that from the previous 172 tells me that you pushed the 3rd, but were also not preposterously beyond reasonable limits. Do you keep track of what your HR was at the end of the 90s and 180s? Outstanding, Sax! (You're a stallion among geldings!)
I am not sure of max HR, but I did a field LT test about 3 months ago and that's how I came up with the HR ranges I put up on my training page. I suspect I will take another field test sometime after IMCA in April and reassess. Concerning 3), yes I was keeping track. For repeats I like to get my HR down to 110 or below before I start back up again.  After that 2nd mile it took longer and actually only got down to 115 but I felt ready to go again.

 

For my next "speed" workout this willl be the plan.  I have done this many many mnay times in college...it's a good one.

4 Mile Track Workout:

1 mile warm up (start slow and build to marathon pace)

1/4mile recovery jog

1/4mile AeT pace

1/4mile recovery jog

1/4mile AeT pace

1/8mile recovery jog

1/8mile AeT pace

1/8mile recovery jog

1/8mile AeT pace

1/8mile recovery jog

1/8mile AeT pace

1/8mile recovery jog

1/8mile AeT pace

1 mile cool down

 If you try it let me know what you think.

 



Edited by sax 2009-02-21 1:33 PM
2009-02-21 1:41 PM
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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL
Speaking of track workouts...This link is to a pace calculator that gives you splits for track workouts.
2009-02-21 2:11 PM
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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

SAX -

That 4 mile track workout looks extremely effective! Were there times when you just extended the 1/8 mile AeT pace and 1/8 mile recovery jog parts beyond the four pairs of them here? Like, maybe, eight pairs of them? Like, maybe, right to the edge of oblivion? I can see just being young and impulsive, and all full of and vinegar, and seeing just how far your body could take you. As it stands, though, it looks great.

As of today, I cannot promise that I will do any speedwork between now and October. This current Achilles thing has me spooked, and I honestly don't know if I can chance decent speed workouts.

I might've told the group that a guy two years younger than I am effortlessly cruised past me during about mile 4 of the run of an oly in early August, and when I talked to him post-race he told me that he can't remember the last time he ran a straight 10km -- all of his "distance" work is interspersed with some speed efforts. Some of these are carefully planned, others are just fartlek efforts, but he just doesn't do longish steady stuff. SAnd when I put distance in italics above, that's because he seldom even does 10km, period, even when 10km runs are part of the triathlons he has scheduled.

I'm one of those poor saps who tends to get hurt when I try too much speedwork, I guess through altering my form. This is really just a past-two-years kind of thing, so maybe it too will pass. But for now I'm just focused on returning to running and getting my running strength back again to full form.


2009-02-21 2:19 PM
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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

I feel you on that Steve.  I havn't done spped work in awhile trying to build the "base".  BUt as I said before I was trying to work on speed for Feb and March in preps for April so we'll see if it's worth it.  For some reason my form actually improves during speedwork.

 

After April I am gonna go long a slow again in preps for the LA Marathon im May....man this is fun, there always seems to be a big race/goal around the corner!

2009-02-21 2:21 PM
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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

SAX again -

Oops! Missed the first part of yours, about your recovery heart rates.
They look very good to me. I would have to wade back through my logs to find mine for a similar effort, but I'm sure that after the same effort on the miles, I would not get down to 110, and then to 115 on the second. I'm thinking about 10-12 bpm difference, which is okay but not near as "relaxed" as your heart gets.

Do you regularly check your waking heart rate, before you get out of bed? For several years mine was 40-43 bpm, but in the past year it has climbed a bit to 43-47. Maybe I'm just thinking of the past many off-season months, but it still strikes me that the rate has climbed. As my '08 race season weight didn't really dip down below 173/174 (as opposed to the usual 168-170), that combined with the increase in waking HR rate makes me suspect that some old-age metabolic crap might be happening. Uh-oh!

Anyhow, thanks again for the workout and the paces link - the have me feeling all twitchy about rounding into competitive form again!
2009-02-21 2:21 PM
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I feel you on that Steve.  I havn't done spped work in awhile trying to build the "base".  BUt as I said before I was trying to work on speed for Feb and March in preps for April so we'll see if it's worth it.  For some reason my form actually improves during speedwork.

 

After April I am gonna go long a slow again in preps for the LA Marathon im May....man this is fun, there always seems to be a big race/goal around the corner!

 

And no, I rarely wanted to push it for more distance, maybe more intesity if I had it in me but I can't recall wanting more distance in one of these workouts.  That was back when I was training for Navy SEAL's so I was doing all kinds of crazy stuff.  This workout most likely prceeded a session of pull ups  and rope climbing.

 

Not sure what my waking HR is lately...I am in high 50's at the DR's office so imagine I am in 40's waking.



Edited by sax 2009-02-21 2:24 PM
2009-02-21 2:30 PM
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SAX once more -

Hey! We're cyber-crossing with our messages! Almost like a real conversation!

"For some reason my form actually improves during speedwork." That is fabulous that it happens for you that way! It works that way for a lot of people, and when I was slightly younger it worked that way for me, too. When it normally falls apart for people is when they really push themselves to exhaustion, and basically go into "stagger mode". But now - well, what happened with the Achilles is pretty consistent. With that it was two minutes of focusing on my push-off and leg extension, and BINGO! Scronched again!

Your last sentence is a tribute to that very sweet race schedule you have crafted for yourself. You have your races/goals beautifully spread out so that they are always in sight, but never so close together to be unreasonable or delusional. Give yourself another pat on the back for the ultra-intelligent planning!
2009-02-21 2:35 PM
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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

Yo, SAX!

"This workout most likely preceded a session of pull-ups and rope climbing."

See that swinging door over there? That's what's left of me with that workout.

Yeah, I knew there was a reason I never considered Navy SEALs - it's all about the upper-body-strength limitations for me!

Just curious -- What can you manage these days by way of decently-executed pull-ups?


2009-02-21 4:44 PM
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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL
I desperately need to get back in pull up shape...it's embarrassing what I can do now.  But give me a challenge and I will be back to 20 straight in 6 weeks or so...OK at least 15 straight...do I smell a challenge?
2009-02-21 4:51 PM
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Well in the spirit of showing off some good weather...here are some shots from todays hill climb up to "the sign".

 

Always start on the trainer because I start from the hills...not a fun warm up so I have learned trainer helps. (ended up stripping off the base layer...about 72 degrees out)









I MADE IT!! (I really wish they would let me swim in that lake...that would be super convenient)



Edited by sax 2009-02-21 5:03 PM
2009-02-21 7:25 PM
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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL

sax - 2009-02-21 5:44 PM I desperately need to get back in pull up shape...it's embarrassing what I can do now.  But give me a challenge and I will be back to 20 straight in 6 weeks or so...OK at least 15 straight...do I smell a challenge?

 

sure, i'll jump on that challenge.  what's the wager?

2009-02-21 7:31 PM
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Subject: RE: stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL
wow!  that is really cool neil!  thanks for sharing the pics!  i am sooooooooooooooooooooo jealous of your weather (not so jealous of the incline).  we had a few 60 degree days here a few weeks ago and they got me craving spring, but no such luck.... as Jess mentioned, there is talk of snow tomorrow.  DAMN that groundhog!!!!!  NOW, STEVE, don't you even chime in...because IMO you cannot complain about cold weather if you live in CANADA.  that is just ridiculous.  I have nothing against canadians, but you HAVE to be crazy to live north of Ohio.... I imagine grizzlies and snow.  Why?  for the love of god, why?

Edited by hooslisa 2009-02-21 7:32 PM
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