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2007-07-18 11:21 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
armydad - 2007-07-18 8:18 AM

David, I have a question. I did the BT sprint training plan which has run out with the sprint in Rockwall about 6 weeks away. I looked through the other plans on BT and came away with the Oly plan as being the closest to what I was doing for the sprint, with some exceptions. I was going to pickout like the middle six weeks of that plan and use it to get to the Rockwall sprint. Do you think that is good idea, or should I try and find a sprint plan that fits. I am really not good at making up my own plan of attack, I need someone much smarter than me to lay it out for me....Thanks.

Before I can answer your question, let me ask you a few. Because I'm a not a performance member (yet!), I don't have access to your logs that are older than a week:

  1. About how many hours/week have you been training?
  2. About what distance and speed is your "normal" ride?
  3. How long as your longest ride and longest run been?
  4. Do you train with a HRM? (I'm sorry if you've told me before!)

If you've been training similar to an OLY program, then I bet you're more than prepared for this sprint. I looked up the distances of Rockwall and it's 300 yard swim, 14 bike, and 2.9 run. This is about a average for a sprint, although some sprints have a bike of 18 miles or so.

Without getting into the details just yet, I think you should probably try to incorporate some brick and maybe interval training in this last 6 weeks. Also, don't do any super hard workouts the last week.

Bricks: Once you answer the above questions, we can tailor this more, but based on the race distance, I'd recommend you do the following bricks:

  1. At about 3 weeks out, ride 8-10 miles at moderate speed, and then immediately run about 1 mile again at moderate pace.
  2. At about 2 weeks out, ride 12 miles at a speed a little slower than your goal race pace, and then run about 15 minutes at a moderate pace.

I call these "race simulation" workouts and they are tough, but provide you with an excellent idea of what the triathlon will feel like. If you can complete these bricks without collapsing, you'll do great in your race. Workouts such as these are great confidence builders!

Intervals: I'm venturing to guess that you have build the basic endurance to exercise continuously for the 1 - 1.5 hrs that the sprint will take you. Thus, you're probably interested in increasing your speed a little now. That's where intervals come in:

  1. 3 weeks out, 4 bike intervals of 3-5 minutes each with about 1-2 minutes rest in between. Try to pick a safe, flat route where you can ride the 3-5 minutes at a challenging pace. Don't go all out, but it shouldn't feel comfortable either. 3-4 run intervals of 400 meters with 200-400m recovery. Do these on a track if you can. Again, don't go all out, but go faster than your normal pace!
  2. 2 weeks out, about the same as above, but you can either do 1 more interval or increase the duration a little for each one!

Brick and Intervals are tough workouts and are probably different from what you've been doing, but 6 weeks out is about the right time to start them! Please be sure to be well rested before and recover well after these tough sessions.

Was this clear? Please ask questions if it wasn't.

I'm excited about your first tri! You're going to do awesome, and have a blast doing it!

David



Edited by dgillen 2007-07-18 11:24 AM


2007-07-18 1:49 PM
in reply to: #891209

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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
dgillen - 2007-07-18 11:21 AM
armydad - 2007-07-18 8:18 AM

David, I have a question. I did the BT sprint training plan which has run out with the sprint in Rockwall about 6 weeks away. I looked through the other plans on BT and came away with the Oly plan as being the closest to what I was doing for the sprint, with some exceptions. I was going to pickout like the middle six weeks of that plan and use it to get to the Rockwall sprint. Do you think that is good idea, or should I try and find a sprint plan that fits. I am really not good at making up my own plan of attack, I need someone much smarter than me to lay it out for me....Thanks.

Before I can answer your question, let me ask you a few. Because I'm a not a performance member (yet!), I don't have access to your logs that are older than a week:

  1. About how many hours/week have you been training?
  2. About what distance and speed is your "normal" ride?
    How long as your longest ride and longest run been?
  3. Do you train with a HRM? (I'm sorry if you've told me before!)

Thank for the info David.

I train about 6 hours, sometimes 7 hours a week. That includes my commute on the bike, usually 3-4 times a week. Therefore, I guess my normal ride is 8 miles in the morning and 8 miles in the afternoon. My average is  at about 15-16 miles per hour what with dodging cars and other fun obstacles. My longest ride has been about 24 miles. My longest run lately has been 6 miles.  I have not gotten a heart rate monitor yet. Talk me into it.

Thanks for all your help and patience.

 

2007-07-18 2:10 PM
in reply to: #891519

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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
armydad - 2007-07-18 1:49 PM

Thank for the info David.

I train about 6 hours, sometimes 7 hours a week. That includes my commute on the bike, usually 3-4 times a week. Therefore, I guess my normal ride is 8 miles in the morning and 8 miles in the afternoon. My average is at about 15-16 miles per hour what with dodging cars and other fun obstacles. My longest ride has been about 24 miles. My longest run lately has been 6 miles. I have not gotten a heart rate monitor yet. Talk me into it.

Thanks for all your help and patience.

Great.  Thanks for answering.  It sounds like you're in great shape for your sprint race!  

As I suspected, your endurance is probably sufficient to do the race TODAY.  This is great.  I like it that you've done some "over-distance" rides and runs.  These really help build your endurance. 

I forgot to mention before to please take it easy on the your 15K race this weekend.  We don't want you too get injured before your triathlon.  Just take it slow and this race will serve as a great base builder for your tri!  Also, write up a race report!

Based on your answers, I think my previous recommendations are valid.  I think you should try to incorporate one brick / week.  Probably on the weekend when you have a a little more time, and can ride somewhere with minimal traffic.   Also, one interval session either on the bike or run, per week could help increase your speed some.

Also, I forgot to mention another important workout: The tempo session.  This workout, typically a run, is great for increasing your muscular, rather than aerobic, endurance.  Warm up well for about 10-15 minutes and nice and slow pace, and then "pick up the tempo" to about race pace (or even slightly faster) for 10-15 minutes.  Then cool down  with an easy jog/walk for 10 minutes.  This will teach you mind and body how to hold a faster pace for an extended period of time!

 

 

2007-07-18 3:02 PM
in reply to: #801094

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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Armydad--you are definitely ready for a sprint tri now!! I'll look forward to your race report(s)! And thanks for the pep talk

The functionality fairies are with me! My lawn is mowed, I did 7 double loads at the laundromat last night and will buy the washer tomorrow as it is my day off and I'll have time to be there for delivery. And the daughter of the dude I'm buying the washer from is going to babysit for me for the MS 150 and my sister will take the overnight shift! One of my patients noticed my adjusting table was losing a very vital pin that holds the whole darn thing together and we got it fixed (whew!!). So, all in all, my life drama is looking more optimistic! Flow......I'm going with it! Now to get my hamstring all healed up so I can do the Bix! (I'm being so good, but I MISS the run! Who knew? I thought I'd always find the run a torture, but tell me I can't for a few weeks and it's all I can think about!)
2007-07-18 3:10 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
BIX BIX BIX! It's those little things in life that make you proud to live in middle America. How are you feeling about running it phoeno? These next two weeks are my huge weeks for IM training, so Bix is going to be an experience for me. I don't even know what to think for goals. Don't die would be a good one, or even don't let 5 out of 7 elvis' pass me before the turn. Were you planning on coming down the night before or the morning of, because streetfest is a pretty good time the night before. How many days?!?! 10! (Hoping the cap at 15,000 doesn't make it any less fun, yet still pissed as all heck at the race director. Greedy son of a bi....
2007-07-18 3:47 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
I'm feeling like I'd love to run it, however slowly it may be, and have fun and then rub it in my ex's face! Because he'd never have believed I'd have it in me to do so! And since anger and revenge are great motivators for me, I'll probably do it even if my poor leg tells me not to. (I'll just hypnotize it to not hurt because believe it or not, I've done that before!)_But I'm not gonna stress it much before hand. I'm really hoping all the bike miles and some swims will be aerobic enough and allow me to kick it for the run. But I have no idea if that logic is legit or not? Dave?

And I just today was thinking--should I go that morning or the night before.....and I'll have to go beg for a sitter and that will be my answer. In my next lifetime I'm coming back as a MAN and then I won't have kid issues!! How freeing it must be to be male. Not fair, not fair.....besides, I always wanted to know just what it would be like to have a penis! Hah, wonder if they will allow me to use that word on here??????


2007-07-18 3:53 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL

phoenixrising404 - 2007-07-18 3:47 PM I'm feeling like I'd love to run it, however slowly it may be, and have fun and then rub it in my ex's face! Because he'd never have believed I'd have it in me to do so! And since anger and revenge are great motivators for me, I'll probably do it even if my poor leg tells me not to. (I'll just hypnotize it to not hurt because believe it or not, I've done that before!)_But I'm not gonna stress it much before hand. I'm really hoping all the bike miles and some swims will be aerobic enough and allow me to kick it for the run. But I have no idea if that logic is legit or not? Dave?

Yes, your long bike rides provide you with aerobic endurance that carries over nicely to your run.  That being said, running does stress different leg muscles.  The Bix is 7 hilly miles, right.  Your legs will get tired before your aerobic system, and this is OK, just don't thrash your legs completely.  Take it easy, have a good time, chat it up with the 15 THOUSAND other people, and you'll be fine.

2007-07-19 5:58 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
I met my swim goal today!  Overall, I'm having a great week and am looking forward to my long run tomorrow morning (I get to sleep in so it won't be too early).  Happy Thursday to you all, I'm off to watch the TDF in our break room for the rest of my work day (all the commentary is in German, but at least it's live)...and yes, I have no real job.
2007-07-19 8:14 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
I outran a tornado last night, it was pretty exciting. Luckily, the sick and twisted training bug has found its way back inside my body. For about 2-2.5 weeks there I was getting really worried. Tonight is a beautiful 65R/120B Brick Bike Recovery, Woo. Hope everything is going well for everyone, I have no race this weekend, so obviously I have to talk about training. What the worst day of the week for you guys? (I'm pretty sure mine are Thursdays)
2007-07-19 8:30 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Matt--you are seriously doing 120 miles bike today????? Why? Personally, I don't like the sounds of this. An IM is 112 miles and I don't think a lot of folks do that much on a regular basis, but correct me if I'm wrong! I think sometimes less is more. I asked an email friend of mine who did IMAZ this year what his training was like, as he's a nationals sprinter but I think this was his first IM. And he said he did a 55 mile bike and a few longer runs, but that's about it. He did it in 12 hours. He's always been a swimmer, so that probably helped. And I think he's done this for years, so I'm sure that helped too. And I read a blog about a woman who had done 12 IMs! She said her best IM's were the ones where she took a few weeks off! You need to recover in order to get stronger. Your muscles cannot regenerate unless you rest them. You were the one who wanted to bulk up, right? Here's your answer: STOP. REST. Period. Make sure you sleep a bunch too.

And Thursdays are my best days because all chiropractors universally take that day off. Why? I have no idea. But I like it! I get to drop off the kids at the sitters and go bike OUTSIDE for a change or go swim outside, or even run outside!! You have no idea how boring all the inside training gets........
2007-07-19 9:00 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
65 minutes run/120 minutes bike

Aprox. 8 mile run/35 mile bike


2007-07-19 10:42 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
I wondered if it was minutes not miles.....whew! Okay, I won't worry so much! How many hours/miles per week are you doing though? I know I can't compare myself to you because my goals are to finish, where your goals are to compete, but I still like to know what the ironpeople are doing with their training. Since I am such a newbie, and rather driven with everything I do, I don't always know what is appropriate. There are times when I am exhausted after an 11 hour training week and think I'm just being a whimp. Then I look around and see the double and triple IM dude is doing about that and I settle down and let myself be appropriately tired but satisfied. Any week less than 6 training hours and I'm depressed from lack of happy chemicals and the feeling that I'm becoming a fat couch potato. I realize when I talk to non tri people that I'm not normal anymore. My idea of "active" is NOT like other people's ideas. Some folks are actually happy with a 20 MINUTE PER WEEK workout! I can't even remember when that would have been adequate for me. And the scary thing is I'm still slow as a turtle despite the hours I put in. But I won't quit. I'll just have to give myself more time. It's a law of nature: there is no process that does not take time. And of course physics: for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. I'll get back exactly what I put in. Simple, huh?

I feel the enthusiasm creeping back in......it was sort of missing there for awhile because "life" was kicking my butt!

What are you guys doing that's got you excited these days? Anyone finding any creative ways to enjoy your training? Haven't heard from Pocket or KP in a long time?? You guys on vacation???

You know you are a triathlete when you go to buy a washer and end up getting a pledge for the MS 150 from the dude you just bought it from! Every other word that comes out of my mouth these days involves BT, S-B-R or some race I want to do somewhere. Who am I now????
2007-07-19 11:00 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL

phoenixrising404 - 2007-07-19 10:42 AM  There are times when I am exhausted after an 11 hour training week and think I'm just being a whimp. Then I look around and see the double and triple IM dude is doing about that and I settle down and let myself be appropriately tired but satisfied.

Pene, 11 hr/week is A LOT!  That is exactly what I averaged over 6 months while I was training for my IM last year.   

I feel the enthusiasm creeping back in......it was sort of missing there for awhile because "life" was kicking my butt! What are you guys doing that's got you excited these days? Anyone finding any creative ways to enjoy your training? Haven't heard from Pocket or KP in a long time?? You guys on vacation??? You know you are a triathlete when you go to buy a washer and end up getting a pledge for the MS 150 from the dude you just bought it from!

Nice!  I'm glad your feeling more enthusiastic!  I've been enjoying watch the tour.  Those guys are amazing.  Be sure to try to find some time to watch the TT this Saturday!

Every other word that comes out of my mouth these days involves BT, S-B-R or some race I want to do somewhere. Who am I now????

Welcome to the club.  When you spend as much time as we do training, it's natural to want to talk about it.   

2007-07-19 11:03 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
I think I'm somewhere near 1,300 minutes a week right now and my max is 1,500 which is the next two weeks. (That's why Bix is going to be crazy.) So what is that 20 hours a week, holy cow that's the first time I've thought in hours. It looks scary in hours. I was going to write more about how I keep training fun, but I think I'm going to go vomit.
2007-07-19 11:26 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL

I'll be the scrub of the group, I've only been averaging 6 hours a week.  I'm stepping it up this week and will continue to do so up until the HIM on 02 Sep.

I did have a question on how much taper (1 or 2 weeks) would be necessary and when I should try to peak for my HIM.

2007-07-19 11:27 AM
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Miler - 2007-07-20 6:03 AM I think I'm somewhere near 1,300 minutes a week right now and my max is 1,500 which is the next two weeks. (That's why Bix is going to be crazy.) So what is that 20 hours a week, holy cow that's the first time I've thought in hours. It looks scary in hours. I was going to write more about how I keep training fun, but I think I'm going to go vomit.

20 hours a week?  Aren't you in school, do you study/have a life?  I guess that's when the running girlfriend comes in handy but still, dates at 6:00 min/mile have got to have their limitations!



2007-07-19 11:38 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Timo - 2007-07-19 11:27 AM

dates at 6:00 min/mile have got to have their limitations!

LOL!  Best quote I've heard all month!

To answer you question about tapering for an HIM, 2 weeks should be plenty, and 1.5 may even be enough.  Don't do any real long runs the last 2 weeks though.

2007-07-19 11:39 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Okay I actually added it up, its only 1,130 this week, so 18 hours... No Social life is true, and somewhere around 400 of those minutes are running (Ugh). I work 40 hours a week, at most a workday has 3 hours (Tuesday and Friday) attached to it for training, usually 2 or less. But yeah, hopefully the next couple weeks doesn't kill me. It ends with our XC retreat, so I'll at least have some social interaction to look forward too, and have someone with me for my long run, maybe they'll break into teams so I'll have someone to run with the whole time.

Thinking about it, I might drop some time from those double 1,500 weeks. That's gonna blow.
2007-07-19 11:43 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Oh and from there it's all cutting volume until my veins fill with liquid metal.
2007-07-19 12:27 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
dgillen - 2007-07-20 6:38 AM
Timo - 2007-07-19 11:27 AM

dates at 6:00 min/mile have got to have their limitations!

LOL!  Best quote I've heard all month!

To answer you question about tapering for an HIM, 2 weeks should be plenty, and 1.5 may even be enough.  Don't do any real long runs the last 2 weeks though.

Perfect, just what I was looking for.  As always, you rock!

2007-07-19 12:30 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL

Miler - 2007-07-20 6:39 AM Okay I actually added it up, its only 1,130 this week, so 18 hours...

Only 18 hours.....bum!  Dude, thats a lot of training time; I'll keep you in mind the next couple weeks while I'm building my training time and crying like a little girl from the pain.



2007-07-19 12:38 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
I don't think your veins will harden up but you might sort of crash when you taper. The adrenaline will calm down and your happy thoughts will disappear! So, best have a plan for handling the emotional crash because I can tell you it sucks! And I'm only tapering from half of what you are doing. This is why I'm thinking I need to push off IM dom til I can go faster or I'll have to quit my life to train. There has to be a better more balanced way to do this......or no one would be able to pull it off and still have an income and a family or friends.

Okay, washer is installed. I have a cold water hose leak underneath that a plumber or landlord needs to fix (that's exactly why I don't own my own home! I don't want to have to cough up the money to fix the stuff when it breaks or leaks or whatever!) And it's time to go pay some bills and then find a tiny bit of time to train today. I hate it when I have to fiddle around with daily life chores on my day off! Days off are for working out! (see, told you we aren't normal) Thank god for BT or I would have no one to talk to. Because my girlfriends already think I'm obsessed and sick. (but then they don't look great in a catwoman suit, now do they......)
2007-07-19 12:59 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL

Dave,

 My turn for a training question.  As you know my HIM is in less than 8 weeks and I want to make sure I am not overtraining and will get burned out.  My next 8 weeks total training is as follows

1 - 563
2 - 619
3 - 681
4 - 408
5 - 681
6 - 749
7 - 599
8 - 280

My split between disciplines is swim (16%), bike (57%) and run (27%).  I plan on 2 swims, 3 bikes and 3 runs a week, one of the bikes will probably be on a trainer (I will probably miss some of these also).

In addition here is the days I am trying to train. 
    Mon - Off
    Tues - Swim, Bike
    Wed - Run
    Thur - Swim, Run
    Fri    - Off
    Sat   - Long Bike
    Sun  - Long Run, bike trainer

Lastly, my longest training for each discipline is Swim (72min), Bike (270min) and run (121min).

Realistically do you think I am over, under or training just right? 

The one thing I was thinking is switching my tuesday ride with my wednesday run to break up the runs but have not been feeling any ill effects. 

Basically I am trying to get rest day before and after my long weekends as recovery.

My goal time for Praireman is sub 6hrs but I would like to be closer to 5:40.

Thanks - See you Saturday.  Let's hope the rain stays away.

2007-07-19 1:42 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
That's a hecka long "Long-bike" You're going to be super prepared for the bike leg. Keep the swim very un-labored and you're going to rock that race.
2007-07-19 1:45 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Miler - 2007-07-19 1:42 PM That's a hecka long "Long-bike" You're going to be super prepared for the bike leg. Keep the swim very un-labored and you're going to rock that race.
I am trying to get 4 or 5 rides over 3 hours so I am over the 56 mile distance for the race.   I want to be fairly fresh off the bike since the run is going to be hell.  The place the race is at has little wind and shade.  I am guessing over half the race is on a dam with not one tree.  Mind you this is in Texas first week of september so it will be scorching hot around noon. 
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