GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 243)

Ran in my first 'cross country' race yesterday. It was a 5 mile race through one of our local conservation areas. The weather and the scenery were fantastic. Trail running was much different than I am used to. I can feel it in my feet, calves & shins - it clearly engaged stabilizing muscles that I don't use when running on roads and paved trails. I plan to do more runs there. There were about 40 people who ran the race. Had a 40:20 finish, and was first in my age group. Overall, it was a great time. A few of the area guys I know who run & Tri were there, a couple ran, a couple were course officials. Plan to do it next year.
Mark
Plus the Hawkeyes won - couldn't ask for more.

Edited by TriD64 2010-10-17 11:34 AM

SteveB:

Hope you're having a great weekend. I'm happy to report a 4 mile run today at an 11:12 pace. That's the longest distance so far that I've been able to maintain something under 12:00. My goal for the 10k on the 31st is to beat my pace of 12:34 from the 5 miler I did back in February, so things are looking good!

Tracey

Hi Mark! Glad to see you back.

Congrats on the AG placement!! I used to LOVE trail running, which I did here and there about 10 years ago. I'm in far better shape today than I was back then, so I mostly did walk/run combos of only a mile or so, but I remember the scenery and the sense of being surrounded by nature always very soothing.

Tracey

Glad to hear about the paving of your 'connecting' road and all the routes that will open up for you.   We were out today and saw a bunch of our favourite roads having some paving done.   Love that! 

Also glad to hear that you might have Mussleman as an "A" race.   At least I know we will get to see you at least once next summer.  

I was wondering about those standalone half marathons and how necessary are they to doing the longer triathlons?   Maybe next year after the race season we could do one or two in prep for Placid.   We won't be ready before then. 

I like the HSB switch of a couple of dates.   Normally Aug 13/14 would be good for us but next year we will be on a BIG back country canoe trip for a good part of Aug 8-21.   That is why I hadn't scheduled any tri's in after Musselman.   However, after looking at race availability, we could possibly do Niagara sprint on Aug 7th and Toronto Isand on the 27th/28th.   Would love to do a flat course like that, but not fond of the hassle of getting there with the ferry.  It is quite the nightmare from what my friends tell me.   I may have to go with some girlfriends because I'm pretty sure Ken wouldn't want to do it.   If I don't to TO, could possibly do Orillia if we are back in time.   That will be the limit of our races next summer, unless we can find a half marathon in the fall.   I do think you have mentioned a couple of good ones to me.   They would have to be sort of local.  

Because of the Musselman/Placid trip next year we are keeping all the other races close to home to save some money plus we have some big expenses for our canoeing - need a new tent, dry bag, paddles, life jackets and a few other items.  We finally killed our 2 person tent on our last trip to Frontenac, although we knew it was coming. 

We would love to do HVJ again as well, but I think I will be sticking to the aqua/bike.   That run is way too tough for me!  And I think you did pretty awesome on that run.   Maybe you need to start putting some of the fun factor back into your racing.     



 

MARK,

Sounds like you DID have a good summer.   Like you say, races will always be there.   Congratulations on your cross country race, and getting 1st place!   I know what you means about the stabilizing muscles.   We haven't done trail running but did some backcountry hiking and backpacking this summer and really noticed (and felt) the effects.   But it helped us tremendously in our getting back to running efforts.   

NICE run Tracey!    Things ARE looking good!!!!    

MARK -

GREAT return to action!!! You run a fine, fine pace, won the a.g., and loved the experience. Heck, that sounds much better than the Hawkeyes winning!

I have never done a trailish run, largely for the reasons you mentioned; to my mind, it is just too much of a risk to my pft-injured self. But I know the arguments, and they are compelling -- a more giving surface, overall, and a chance to condition that stabilizer groups that might come in handy at some other time.

Poifect!!

TRACEY -

Terrific run, and the trajectory leading to the halloween 10km is looking great. I can see why you might be a bit upbeat!

Fairly nice day today for Mr. Branch, and a very welcome win. Whew! I'm glad they won if for no other reason than Hernandez would've felt awful had they lost, given his two drops. Whew again!

ANNE -

Lots of stuff to respond to from your two posts. So starting with the first one first.....

"Fun factor"? Huh? Wha' dat?

I was saying to lu=ynn just yesterday that I never run or bike or swim just for fun anymore; haven't for years. I mean, there is always some "ulterior motive", which another way of saying "performance-oriented". On my 10km race today (report later), I was kind of reveling before it began in the sweetly "democratic" nature of pure road races..........but then as race time approaches the game face goes on and the various goals come into sharp focus. Of course, it helps that I generally love what I do, like about 99.9% of the time, but as far as a pure "fun factor" goes..........

Your question about stand-alone half-marathons and their importsance to longer races is a great one, and I guess I have some thoughts on that. (Moi? ) I have definitely been thinking that way recently, and not just about half-maratjons -- 10km, too.

I guess there are a couple of schools of thought. One is that in order to race any distance, one should know what that distance feels like. So, of course, it is great to have run 21.1km before the day it comes at you before your first half-iron, in which it follows after the swim and the bike. Doing half-marathons is very nice for that purpose!

But, one doesn't have to do a bonafide halfmarathon, just so long as something approaching (or slightly exceeding) 21.1km is done beforehand. I paid $50 for th privelge of doing a bonafide 10km today.....and was that really necessary? (See below for the answer.) Next weekend's 1/2mar will cost me $75....and is that really necessary, as well? That is, can't I just run 10km and/or 21.1km on my own, treat 'em as time trial efforts and be content with that?

The answer is........yes and no. For me (and most people) there is nothing quite like a race to make one race, to make them push their limits, to have others against which to gauge themself. The furtehr answer is that, at least for me at this stage of things, I need to experience my best-executed speed at 10km and 21.1km so I can have a good sense of what I am optimally capable of in an olympic or half-iron triathlon.

My last stand-alone 10km was just shy of three years ago (like, 2 years and 51 weeks), and my last stand-alone 1/2mar was 6 years and 2 weeks ago!!! That is just way too long, I think, to go without pushing those particular limits. To add to the trauma of the 1/2mar situation, I haven't done a lot of half-irons, period -- 3 in '07, and one each in '08, '09, ,and '10. In effect, i wonder if I have gotten "rusty", juts haven't honed those 21.1km skills as well as I might.

That is what brings me to this pass of attempting more off-season 1/2mars -- and 10kms. I truly believe that for most age-groupers, they can't race fast "just like that" -- and with each longer duistance, that situation becomes more pronounced. So, while I can summon maybe 97% of my run speed for a sprint, I think it might drop to 90% for an oly and maybe 80% for a half-iron, in lieu of speed-specific training for those specific distances. I'm really just pulling numbers there, but I think they're kind of close. My best stand-alone 10kms were two at low-42, and my best oly 10km is 45ish. My best stand-alone 1/2mar was 1:36, while my best half-iron run was 1:41, which was a conducive day on a very flat course (Eagleman).

ANYHOW, I just believe that some good will come out of getting sharper at the 10km and 21.1km distances, if attacked as stand-alones. But for a 1/2mar to be requisite for happily completing a half-iron........probably not so. It might make it a better experience, but just doing a handful of 21.1km training runs should serve just as well. And that brings the matter of LSD runs to the forefront, an the literature says there a HUGE benefots to be gained from long slow distances......and why does one need a race setting for THAT??

Off to dinner, shall return!

My interest is peaked!   I will wait till you have given me all your thoughts before asking questions.   

ANNE again -

Not quite dinner yet, so.....

Abything I write by way of next year's schedule is liable to undergo no less than 23 degrees of alteration before all is said and done, so count me neither in nor out of anything!

FWIW, I did Toronto Islands in '07 and found getting over quite easy. I think they have changed things some, but my understanding is that it has been designed to space out people better. Now, having said that I will point out again what you know about me -- that I believe in getting to raxce as early as possible. So I was a real eager beaver in '07, and might've been on a simpler early ferry.

having said THAT, though, i will admot that the return was not so easy. There were long lines to get on the return ferry, and we maybe spent 45 minutes at the ferry dock waiting our turn. probably the smart(er) way to do it is to just hang out there longer, taking some advantage of the uniqueness of the place.

The bike is a hoot, three circuits of the island - zoomzoom! The only drawbacks are (1) the no-passing zone at the east turnaround and (2) the possibility of some pedestrian meandering across the road and that would be that. BUT, I would love to do it again, as overall it is a very unique event.

Now to dinner, i think!

Excellent Tracy, always good to see improvement.

ANNE -

Those are nifty data from the run -- both the alterations in the walk/run segments and the differences between the paces for the two halves. And how strength training and the flirtatious virus fit into it.....who knows??

And of course it is great news that you have had no issues since getting back to running. Ultimately, that was the ideal, wasn't it? To run, "issue-free" -- PRICELESS!

I will send big-time mojo for the run with the group to go well for you. Just curious - is Ken part of those, too?

I'm anxious to get back to the gym and renew strength training. The problem for me is that I do it through the City of Ottawa system, and I get a reduced rate for the gym/pool combination, but I'm not sure how much of a lay-off I want from the pool. I have about seven months (but who's counting? ) until I'm back in open-water, and getting a six-month pass makes good financial sense.....but I want longer than that for the gym itself. Hmmm. Decisions, decisions!

Have I covered everything now? Onwards to a brief RR of the 10km race today!

Well, you know what, it just might work, because we like to get to races really early as well and would no doubt take the earliest possible ferry and would have no qualms about hanging around the island till the crowds thinned out for the return trip.   My friends did say that both years there were pedestrians getting in the way a fair bit - had to be really careful.  

RACE REPORT -- MADD DASH 10km

Not a whole lot here. I went to it this morning having some very recent concerns about my right foot, worrying that I might have a stress fracture or something. Upon arriving I did a brisk 5-minute run, just to see how it felt -- and it felt good enough to get my bib and chip. So, with about 45 minutes still to go until the dtart, it was time to focus on goals.

My pie-in-the-sky goal was 42 minutes, but not having doen a stand-alone 10km in three years, I had no real way of gauging whether thsi was even remotely viable. I hd sepnt the previous two weeks working at longer and slower distances, thinking that this weekend would be the Toronto half marathon, but on Friday we decided to stay home instead, and that led me to this race!

To do 42 minutes flat would require a pace of 4:12/km, so that was my tentative goal -- etablish that pace early and see how long i could hold it. The day was mostly very fine -- sunny and maybe 55 degrees, but with a pretty strong wind. Well, 2 out of 4 ain't bad!

So, here are my km-by-km paces, with the final two km being combined because I couldn't find the marker:
4:18
4:13
4:16
4:24
4:20
4:28
4:17
4:39
9:02

OOPS! So much for the 4:12/km pace. After 2km I thought it moight be attainable, but by the time km 4 came along I knew I was out of it for that high-falutin' goal. The wind was a big factor between kms 4 and 7, and as for the numbers of 4:17 and 4:39, I suspect that reflects a misplaced marker; the average of the two, 4:28, is more likely.

My second goal was to land right around 43 minutes -- oops on that, too! It helps, however, to look at the recent 10km fresults for several of the guys who finished ahead of me, and the winner did it in 38:04, while a recent 10km for him was 37:18. There were several other results like that, so I feel good enough overall. And my sore calves afterwards are testimony to how hard I pushed it, especially into the wind. I seldom get sore calves! Yikes!

So, my assault on 42 will have to wait three weeks until The Cookie Run. In the meantime, for today it was:
44:02
4:25/km
8th out of 112

I wish the top two were better, but I'm mighty happy with the bottom one!

Autopsy:
Calves are mostly fine now. Still not pleased with my foot, but suspect nerve or tendon inflammation, as opposed to the highly-dreaded metatarsal stress fracture!
WHEW!! (??)

That was a good race!   Hope you get the foot straightened around.   It's been used alot this season.   Don't forget the off season is when we are supposed to fix all those things that crept up on us while we played hard all summer.    Unfortunately that might mean backing off a little on the races; because as you say, the races generally get us to push ourselves harder than we otherwise might.  

I didn't realize it had been so long since you had done a stand alone race.   That really is an amazing pace for ANY age!   You are going to get so sick of us suggesting you back off/take it easier, but......  I hope you are trying to find a healthy balance between being competitive, and establishing a fitness/race routine that will carry you into your senior years.    I find alot of triathletes push/train so hard that their bodies are actually deteriorating, despite still being able to pull off stellar races.   However, you may be one of the few exceptions able to handle pushing the body to its limits.  

Didn't mean to get off on a rant - really just wanted to congratulate you on a fantastic race!   Very jealous of your fast pace, and hope you get your pie-in-the-sky goal of 42 in the Cookie Run.     

ANNE -

"....carry you into your senior years." What? You mean I'm not there yet?!?

I know what you mean, though -- and I DO NOT get tired of you and (usually Denise) trying to get me to use more of my head and less of my heart; it really is sound advice. But i just keep coming back to the notion that I have to make hay while I can, while the power to do so is still there. I read enough about performance declines with age, and I can see it in the tri-run times of a lot of guys my age, and that really alarms me. Fortunately I'm still running well off the bike, but at some point I will wake up, i suspect, and find that that ability has radically decreased overnight. Yikes! Then what?

That brings me, kind of, to Sunday's 10km. It occurs to me that while I'm still running well off the bike, i may never hit the "heights" I did in '03 and '04, when I did Rattle Me Bones in 42:16 and 42:19, respectively. My last attempt at it, three years ago, was 44:59, i think, so at least Sunday was better than that. Maybe actually TRAINing for these things might help, of course, but.....

So, I will head on Cookie Run in a few weeks and aim for that 4:12 again -- and see if I can hit it at least once! Between now and then is this Saturday's 1/2mar, and I'm excited about that. Doing MADD on Sunday was useful in that I learned what it felt like to run at 4:25 pace, and heaven knows the chances of 9 Run Run being even windier than MADD are very high. So, doing 4:25/km is waaaaay out of the question (always was, actually), but I think I'll aim for 4:45/km and see where that gets me. Or I'll just wing it. Wheeeee!

My goal there will be 1:40. Ha, ha, ha? I don't know. I ran on the course about ten days ago, maybe about 20km of it, and did that in 1:40. That was without pushing it too hard, and alos not having anything to drink or eat along the way. At least on Saturday I will have aid stations every 3km, except km ~14-20, in which there will be nothing. And I will have adrenaline from a mob of other people on course. It will be a void of spectators, but my guess is that about 700 people are signed up for it, so that will be good. Much better than the sparse turn-out at MADD Dash!

Anyhow, thanks for the compliment on the 10km, and also the words of advice/warning on how to handle myself between now and when I have to crawl whenever I want to get from point A to point B. I AM trying to be a good boy about off-seasoning the swim and the bike right now, rationalizing that my weekly training load is done by about 2/3 of what it was a month or so ago, and that just makes me feel all righteous! But, i know that the biggest threat to my long-term race-health is the running, and here I am -- merrily running along. Oops!

Last fall I trained like a banshee for Kiawah Marathon (Dec 12), and had my ITB flare up 10 days out from it, so I bailed on the race. That was a bummer, to be sure, but mostly I focused on the good that maybe came out of serious fall run training. And, lo and behold, once recovered (only a week or two) from the ITB I went on to have a successful depths-of-winter run training regimen, and that turned into a really good season of running off the bike in my triathlons. Soooooo -- that provides lots of incentive for run-training hardish this fall and winter.

You're right, though, about races being a threat. I don't worry about that too much with 1/2mars, as my race pace is that far from my training pace, but 10kms are a different matter. I have a small (recent) history of achilles inflams when I try to "kick it home" on tempo 10km training runs, and that should be a caution when i do these 10km races. But I don't think I ever kick it home at the end of a 1/2mar, simply because there is not a lot left there to kick with; "shuffle it home" is more like it!

And you -- how are you holding up these days???

Definitely haven't reached your senior years!   There was a time 30 years ago when I thought 60 was senior and in chronological age it still is but I would guess your 'real' age is 15-20 years younger; the way I think and feel now, 'senior' doesn't come into play until about 75.   I've observed from family and friends, that people who are healthy but don't exercise don't really start to 'show their age' until 75-80.    I've met numerous athletes that are 80+ who physically look like mid 50's.   The trick there, though, is the moderation aspect - like I said in the previous post, you need to find the balance between preserving the body and breaking it down.  

I do realize that there are performance declines with age and I guess you would be aware of that since you have been an athlete for so long with a strong running background.   I'm not concerned with that because just having started to s/b/r in the last few years, I am actually still getting better.   From what I have read, I have a 10 year window to continue to improve before peaking (all things equal - health, training level, consistency) etc.    Which kind of makes me happy, because when I see alot of the women in my age that are 'tops', and have been racing for 20+ years, they are really only dramatically ahead of me on the run and I can see them deteriorating.  

I guess I missed that you are doing a 1/2 marathon.   That will be exciting and I can't wait to hear how it goes.  

I (and Ken) are doing really well, thanks.   We are happy with how the running is going and we have started to incorporate strength into our routine.   I realize now what a mistake it was to give it up the last couple of years.   Thankfully, we took up the yoga or we might have had a pretty poor season.   I cannot believe (well, yes I can) the difference in my body just over the past couple of weeks.   So more much stability and strength in the hips, pelvis and knees.   

The running group was great for the first few weeks - kept us on track - but Monday and Thursday at 6:00 doesn't really fit into our schedule so we are running on our own schedule now (same schedule as we will use for the 1/2 IM Fitz plan in Mar).   SO, my next run is tomorrow and hopefully I can report back to you that it was great. 

We will be keeping yoga 4x per week until March and then 3x per week.   It's kind of crazy, but I have met several triathletes at our studio who say they couldn't do what they do w/o the yoga - right from sprinters through to 1/2 and full IM people.   Peter Beuhlow (50 years), a recent friend of ours, just did Kona (4th time I think) and came 2nd in his age.   He is an amazing athlete.  

Speaking of which - have to run.   Going to do a noon yoga class and have a massage this afternoon. 

Wow, great performance on your 10k Steve! Tell me though, how were you able to track your pace for each km like that? You must have some really nifty device that you wear...

Tracey

Anne:

I always read your posts about your training, recreational activities, etc., and think - wow, THAT is how I would like to live in my retirement! I think it's so great that you and your husband are so active and enjoy many of the same activities. I live right next door to a 55+ community and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who is nearly as active as you guys are!

And I agree with you - exercise keeps you young!

Tracey

So, a big accomplishment to report...

I did a 5 mile run on Monday at finished at a pace of 10:56. I'm quite pleased with that! Earlier this year I really didn't think it was possible that I'd get much under 12:00 min/mile because I felt like I just wasn't improving. I'm sure the fact that my neuroma has subsided (or dare I say been cured?) has helped with this a lot too. I struggled to run much more than 2 miles at the time when it was really acting up.

Who knows, maybe some day I will join the "middle of the packers" in my road races.

Tracey

ANNE -

Truth told, I hardly feel 61 at all, and part of this is helped by the fact that I believe in acting about 17 years younger than half my age. (That, and infinite variations on it, were what i told my students whenever they asked how old I was.) In fact, my daughter sent me a birthday card a year or two ago that said "Here's to another year of complete disregard for age-appropriate developmental milestones." I am who I am??

I think you are very correct in your assessment that for many of the top women in your a.g. who have been doing this stuff for a long while, a pretty significant toll has been taken on thier bodies. You are so relatively fresh compared to them, that if you can stay healthy that will work heavily to your advantage.

So, the big question --- How did today's run go??

TRACEY -

That is a MASSIVE accomplishment, desrving of huge congratulations. It just keeps getting better and better for you, doesn't it? Remember, though, that no all training is linear, so if you slip some on the next run or the run after that or the run after that, don't panic -- what you did Monday will indeed be replicated (and not just once, but many, many times).

As for MOP at some point -- most definitely! And it might come sooner than you think. (I'm just sayin'........)

I'll bet you wish the Halloween run was tomorrow, huh?

Tracey! Congrats on an awesome run!! That is so great, what a good confidence builder!

Sorry I have been MIA lately, work and life have been busy!  I am here!  Just another few weeks of audits for work and I will be back to my chatty self. 

Only 277 days until IMLP!!