GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 245)

ANNE -

Loose and wet is indeed awful. Tight and wet, though -- not nearly so bad!

So, I will maybe go with a DeSoto Skin Cooler long-sleeve top, which is really tight. And then the DeSoto WindAndSea vest will at least keep my torso somewhat dry.

I don't like cold legs, but yesterday in the tri shorts they were fine. In the past I have spread one of those surficial skin-warmer slaves on me (knees especially), and at least that has given the sensation of heat.

I am thinking overtime about the feet. Smearing them with BodyGlide will provide some degree of insulation, as would Vaseline, so that is an option. And seeing as how when I do use socks they are the Ironman ultra-thin and ultra-short ones, i could just stick a pair in my shorts over each hip -- just in case I lose feeling in my feet along about mile 9!

So, in an oddly perverse way, I'm still looking forward to the race. I'm trying to dwell on the small-winds aspect of the forecast, as where the race is run (VERY open) will be wicked bad if there is a strong wind.

Thanks for your thoughts, as they spur my own!

Thanks Anne. I'm definitely keeping in mind the fact that my training gains won't be linear. I first experienced that last winter when I had gone for a swim after being able to consistently do 500 meters plus, piece of cake. I had to stop and take a breather after about 200 meters and was like, what is this??! In fact on Wednesday I went for another, shorter run and was only able to hit 11:15 min/mile. So ya, I'm trying to just go with the flow and enjoy it, like you said!

Tracey

Anne and Steve:

I went through the same thing when I cut down from 3 days/week of weight training to 2, in order to make time for an extra swim workout. I kept thinking that I was going to undo all the muscle gains I had accumulated. I'm still only doing weight training 2x per week, but I'm doing it smarter: heavier weights, slower reps, and more variety of moves. I definitely see more definition now so I think I'm actually in better shape now than I was when I was hitting the weights 3x per week!

Tracey

I have the same reaction to ginger. I drank ginger tea when I had morning sickness, so now I can't stomach the stuff. (I know that is way less cool than a story about a wild night with a bottle of tequila!)

Tracey

The candy nutritionals are my favorite! But that is probably because I love candy anyway. But I can totally see how Clif Blok after Clif Blok could get pretty nauseating during a marathon or otherwise long event.

With regard to nutrition, bananas seem to be what works best for me these days. Funny, something so simple like a piece of fruit when there are so many "high tech" nutritionals and supplements out there. I have done long workouts after eating Clif Bloks, or both Clif Bloks and a banana. When I eat the combination of both, I seem to have way more energy, can run faster, and don't get tired as quickly. I haven't tried working out after eating just the banana, so I'm not sure if it's the banana or the combo of the banana and Clif Bloks that's working. In any case, I plan to eat the combo before my 10k next weekend.

Tracey

Edited by thall0672 2010-10-22 10:19 AM

Those Newtons are highly ventilated! You might have to go with socks.

Has anyone ever used the winter maintenance plans here on BT.com? I ask because if I want to access one, I need to shell out $40 to upgrade my membership to silver. I really want something simple to put together for when I officially start my off-season training! (So I've been in my off season since the end of August... but the swimming and biking have fallen by the wayside as I've been spending most of my training time preparing for my 10k and trying to work on my running...) Anyway, the plan is to start the winter maintenance plan in December, do that for about 3 months, then get started on an Oly training plan around March or April (I'm shooting for an Oly either middle or late season next year).

I have the Triathlete's Training Bible, which I could build a winter maintenance plan from, but it's just too much work. You have to select your training hours, then go back to the appendix and choose your workouts, then break them up depending on what type of gains you're looking for (anaerobic, endurance, etc), break up the hours into daily workouts, etc etc etc. I'm looking for something easy and user-friendly! I want to be able to just say, I've done a sprint, I have x number of hours per week to train in the off-season, and I want to train for 12 weeks, and have the plan spit out for me. I tried Googling such a thing but can't seem to really find anything.

TRACEY -

You've got Anne on your side -- I think she's a user of whole figs!

There are a lot of people who have made the same observation that you have, that some of Nature's Own work as well as, or maybe even better, for them than the fancy manufactured stuff. I can see it both ways, which I guess means that I'm an "endurance omnivore".

The problem I have with the natural stuff is transport; it's just easier for me to lug around gel packs. It especially helps that my tri-shorts are DeSoto ones with four pockets (two down each leg), so sticking a gel or two in the pockets leaves me hands-free and relatively unencumbered.

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but at the risk of repeating myself (haven't really ever let THAT stop me! ), here goes....

For many of my first ten or so half-irons, my secret nutritional weapon was baby potatoes, previously boiled and then put in a baggy, salted. I would have this in my Bento Box during the bike, eating one whenever it seemed like a good idea. If there were any left (I usually had 3-5), I would carry the bag out on the run and try to finish it off within the first mile or two. This was perfect, not only as they are low-glycemic, but also just becasue they were such a radical departure from the sweetsweetsweetsweet of the standard gels/drinks/bars.

ANYHOW, I'm glad bananas work for you, and just keep in mind that there is a reason why they are staples at aid stations at irons and half-irons!

On to Part Two to you.

TRACEY again -

Shucks! I wish you had mentioned this two months ago when I let my own Silver expire! As it turns out, though, I am thinking of renewing it, so keep bugging me (seriously!) and I will try to get on this fairly soon. I found it useful early with the group last winter, trying to channel training thoughts to some of you all. If I can do that again, here and now, with you, that partly justifies it. Plus, I will probably be starting another group in December (BUT KEEPING THIS ONE GOING!!!), so that would partly justify it even more.

It is perfectly fine to have temporarily scuppered the swim and bike in favor of the running for the 10km! Don't feel even one iota of guilt about that!! I did it last fall wiith the marathon training, and the past few weeks, as I have decided to do a bunch of running races in lieu of a season-final tri down south somewhere, have seen me bike seldom and swim not much more. Since my last tri, Sept 25, I have ridden four times, and not since the 11th -- with no next-ride visible on the horizon.

Many people, too, will build their off-season around "blocks", say a month each of swim and bike and run emphases. So, for a while now you have been in a run-emphasis situation, and what is extra good for you is that you have had some terrific results. That's really what people hope for when they put all their eggs in one training basket for a while -- big, jump-started improvements. So, be of good cheer -- your approach is working simply marvelously!

So, keep bugging me about training plans, and if for some reason I decide not to re-subscribe to Silver, then I will just help you out as best I can. (And for what it's worth, i share your frustration with trying to cobble together a rock-solid training plan from the Bible; that might be why I train mostly by the seat of my pants! )

RACING TOMORROW - Saturday, September 23


ME -- 9 Run Run Half-Marathon

Stittsville, Ontario
9a.m. start

(I'm bib #2444)

MOJO DONATIONS REQUESTED!!

(1) For clement weather tomorrow, specifically small winds and temperatures slightly higher than 1C or 2C at race start!
(2) My USAT points for Make-A-Wish are s churning away even as I type, and I really want more than 78.6-something for it. This'll be the last race that stands to count favorably for me, and I want to elevate above my current rating of 78.3473.
(3) That the Texas Rangers can scrap out one more win in the next two games!!!!!!!!


Thanks, gang!

I have used the BT plans in the past, mostly in-season.   I looked at their off season ones but was really surprised at the volume and intensity of the plans.   I thought we were supposed to step back a bit.   I believe I printed off a couple.   I will look for them and if so, could scan them and e-mail to you.  

I thought the Training Bible was way too much work as well.  

Thank you Anne! I just PM'd you my address.

Tracey

Yo, gang!

I'm just here briefly, then off again, but I'll give the quick-and-dirty on 9RunRun.

It was a great race for me:

1:37:08
4:36/km
7:24/mile
42/507 overall
1/13 expanded age group (60-69)

It really couldn't've gone much better. My pie-in-the-sky goal was 1:40, and I would've been contentish with 1:45, so 1:37 is quite dreamy!

I kept a solid pace throughout, but with no help from km markers -- they were every 3km, and at that not perfectly placed. That's kind of too bad, because I feel my variance per km was very small -- likely no more than 15 seconds between fastest and slowest km (okay, maybe 20). There was a slight fade between 16 and 18, I would guess, but nothing dramatic.

Weather turned out okay - cold, but not much wind. The wind was a minor-minor factor for about 8km, and slightly gnarly for about 3km, with the rest hunky-dory. Starting temp was 1C, and I did the thing sockless; that was a very last-minute decision, but a good one.

More later!




Edited by stevebradley 2010-10-23 1:28 PM

CONGRATS!!!!!!! Steve.   I'm really happy for you.   That was an awesome performance, to be sure.      

SteveB - 7:24 pace for a half - HOW DO YOU DO THAT??????

Anne is right - the BT winter maintenance plans are too high volume/high intensity.  They all peak at 10 hours or more except for the 4-7 hour/20 weeks(the hours are ok for that one but still it has 3b/3r/3s/2str which I think is too many).  I think you have access to descriptions of those programs and 2 weeks of detail?? - that should give you some idea.  I did the 4-7 hr/20 week program last year but I cut out a couple of workouts each week.

ps - I sent them a message recommending they get a lower volume (2b,2s,2r) winter maintenance (we're not all SteveB)

FYI:  I just joined Gold - it was only $20 more for the 6 months and I thought I'd try it.  I had to fill out a long form with my background and goals.  Then they recommend a program.  Problem is they only deal with BT programs.  Because of my previous knee issues, they recommend bike focus.  However that peaks at 14-16 hours - NO WAY.  They don't review your logs but you can ask them unlimited questions about the programs and how they work.  I'll try it for 6 months.

Denise

I think you will get some good benefit out of the Gold plan.   I was a gold member for a couple of years or more and I really enjoyed being able to ask lots of questions - especially when I got an answer from Mike Ricci.   He is really good and so knowledgeable and able to explain things well and also able to understand your questions.    I found some of the others seemed to have a hard time grasping what it was you were actually asking and would just go off on a totally different direction with their answer.   For the most part, great though.   I did learn alot.

STEVE,

I was riding my bike today (trainer) and decided to lower my seat a bit (actually back to where my fitter had it when I had my bike fitting).   For some reason I got it into my head last year that the seat should be higher.    As soon as I went from my True North bike to the Jamis on the trainer both my knees sort of bothered me, especially the right one, but I just attributed it to being a bit of a different set up than the TN.  

This season, same thing.  As soon as I got on the Jamis I could feel it in my knees.   Anyway, after I lowered the seat today, what an amazing difference.  No problem with the knees and a ton more power.   Now I'm thinking that may have contributed/been the cause of my knee problem this season.   When I looked back at my log, the really bad knee pain and weakness/instability in the knee happened a day after I had done a really tough bike power interval session on the trainer.

Kind of amazing how such a small thing (less than 1/8 of an inch) can have such a big impact.

I had a sucky run yesterday.   Decided I wanted a different route for a change and picked one out of our repertoire.   It has some hills.   One a long, long, long, gradual climb and another long, steep climb.  Plus it was windy again, which, in itself, I don't really mind.   But the stupid neuroma bothered me from the first step.   Did get up to 4 1/2 minutes of running which was easy enough.  Won't be long before I can actually run a kilometer!

I know why the neuroma acted up.   I was wearing heels the day before and also standing in them for a couple of hours in the evening on concrete floor.   This was after I had previously told myself NOT to do that any more.   I am going to have to stay off heels if I want to run pain free.

We are supposed to do a long run tomorrow but will have to see what the weather brings.   Our indoor track is closed until Monday for resurfacing.   Ken has been pushing the yoga a bit and his hip feels a bit weak, so if it still feels weak tomorrow we will either do the elliptical or water running instead.  

We are actually supposed to do a long swim as well.   Do you see any problem doing a long run and a long swim on the same day?  

DENISE and TRACEY and ANNE -

This is very intersting what you all are finding out and/or already know about the various training plans. I defintely feel out of the loop on it, and I guess this is another reason to dive back into Silver and figure out what's what.

One of the issues seems to be what exactly is meant by "off-season", and I guess if you asked 5000 different triathletes they'd come up with 5000 different answers -- or at least 500 different ways that their off-seasons are constructed. For my part, it's never really clear. Is it the period of supposed rest and recovery, that may last a couple of weeks to a couple of months? Does it include Rest and Base periods? Am I in it now, at least this period in which I am not doing much swimming and cycling? Moreover, what the heck is the goal of an off-season??

A schedule of 3/3/3/2 in fairly complex -- not really what most triathletes would consider an off-season. If I checked my logs I might find I am hitting those types of numbers along about March? Maybe? Maybe earlier. I don't really know!

I feel that with any of these plans, adjustments can be made without the world unhinging. Many coaches agencies will send out "canned" plans, kind of one-size-fits-all, and we all know intuitively that that won't work perfectly for any collection of random athletes -- neither in terms of abilities nor available time, not to mention inclination and commitment. So, before too long people will be doing adjustments - cutting workouts, augmenting workouts.....whatever works best.

I guess that's my way of saying that you should feel somewhat free to make adjustments as needed, assuming that BT doesn't get around to providing lower volume programs. Many, many serious long-distance (HIM and IM) people will be very content (and successful) with a weekly volume of 14-16 hours, so for the majority of triathletes who are doing mostly sprints and olys, bi volume weeks are intimidating at the very least.

So maybe later today I spring for Silver!!

DENISE -

Two things for you:

(1) I will think some more about your FYI paragraph, about the form you had to fill out and the recommendation that came back to you.
(2) The short answer for your question about doing 7:24 miles is that (a) I got into a great pace right away, and (b) I managed to hold a cadence of 90/91 for practically the whole thing. Now, (b) is basewd on the times I bothered to count it, which was maybe 15 times, but I'm sure it was there for virtually the whole race.

I shall return!

1.  I think bike-focus is a great idea for me - I think I could improve the most on the bike - but no way will I get up to 14-16 hours.

2.  If you had a Garmin, you'd have your mile paces without depending on mile markers or hitting the lap button.  Of course, I'd trade you my Garmin for your pace any day.  I'm going to try training based on Heart rate for awhile - I'm curious how my perceived exertion correlates with actual heart rate.  I think there's some info on BT on how to determine max/min heart rates and then calculate zones.  If nothing else, it might make running more interesting for awhile.

ANNE -

I think I've said that I've procrastinated having my bike fit tweaked simply becasue I am petrified of having my whole boike/body algnment thrown off by a 1/8" (or even 1/16"!!!) adjustment. But for you, though, you now have some base of evidence that corroborates you periodic knee pain. Knowledge is power, remember!!

I'm sorry your neuroma flared, but at least you seem to have a suspect for it - the heels. As you know, heels are supposed to be real bad for neuromas, especially is they taper to too-tight at the front end. HOWEVER, one day my podiatrist was wearing some dangerous-looking heels at work, and I jokingly commented that they loked like trouble. Her response was that mostly that thype (heeled) IS trouble, but she knows feet wel enough that she knows exactly what to look for and not case problems for herself. So, while I'm not advocating heels for you, I guess like everything else nor all heels are created equally, and that somewhere out there is a pair of them that you could wear and look nice in, and not pay dearly for it during the next bunch of runs!

Long run and long swim on the same day? For me, yes -- but that's because I kick so little anyway! But you've described yourself as a strong kicker, so that changes things slightly. I think the run is far more important to you than the swim these days. so I'd recommend the run first. And then on the swim proceed as normal, but if you feel your legs being sore or weak, just switch to a pull buoy and finish the workout emphasizing the upper body. The other advantage to this is that I almost always find water (even chlorinated pool water!) "therapeutic", so I figure that my lower body really appreciate it when I swim following a run. (Nine times out of ten, however, if I do the two of the same day the swim will happen first. Go figure.)

Great on the 4.5 minutes of pure running! Km, here you come!!!