stevebradley's Mentor Group FULL (Page 246)

JESS -

Not disappointed at all! In fact, I'm probably relieved, as I was wondering how tempted you might be to do the 18 miles in less than optimal health. Thosea re real dice-rolls, but at least you're now back to close to 100%, and it's time to CHAAAAAAARGE forth towards Philly!

Jane's closest friend did Chicago, or rather Cahicago did her. She was pulled off the course at about mile 15, after yet another vomiting session. The heat hurt her, but mostly she felt terribly bloated for much of the what she did. She started out fine in terms of pace, but never felt good at all. There was nothing seriously wrong, and when she got back to NYC she signed up for Richmond! Quick on the rebound and the redemption!

I will have to check out the site for DPF and see who you heard! Who are your current favorites? I've got several, including Amy Gerstler, Sandra Beasley, Robert Wrigley, and bunch of others who I'm just not thinking of right now. They cycle through with regularity, depending on whom I come across in the various Little Magazines (of which I buy waaaaay too many!)

NEIL -

Rule of Thumb -- Never do a half-iron at a venue where a shorter race is also happening. that is why I will likely never do Tupper Lake HIM, just because on a wretched day it would be too miserable to see all the short-course people happily finished with their events while mine is still unfolding. It is so much better when a race will have the short event the day before, such as Musselman or Timberman or Mooseman. But then tere are the ones such as Beach2Battleship and Chesapeakeman, where an IRON is held at the same time there are shorter races (half-irons) happening; YIKES!

Anyhow. I'm gald you had fun at yours, and now I have to go back and seriously look at all the course descriptors. Are there elevation charts there?

In my head I am missing the bike and the thought of racing it......but after a week of long runs, my simple bike ride yesterday was very uninspiring; I just had no legs. That might be further proof that it was time to shut down the tri season!

I signed up for a local half-marathon on Oct 23, and if Lynn coerces me into going down to Toronto this weekend, I will liley do the half-marathon that is associated with the Toronto Marathon. My running feels really good these days, but i have a low-grade back issue that can settle in and bug me as the miles click away. Bah!

For you -- Onwards to IMAZ!!!!!

that's a great point about not doing the long distance races when there are shorter races occurring.  I remember the feeling at Las Vegas last year when we were coming off the bike...everyone seemed so refreshed and...well...done.  It probably felt similar to some people on this route.

Well here is a link from another forum member who did the course pre-ride, it shows the elevation.  I took Monday off but back at it today.

NEIL -

ARGH! I need the latest version of Adobe Flash player.....and that doesn't seem to be installing.....so all I am left with are the data. But those are very cool! Maximum speed - 41.8; average speed 10.7. Enough said with those? Jeezum!

So, I can see why you had fun bombing some of the descents, and your legs must've been thanking the high heavens.

It's also interesting seeing the data for each segment of his ride; I can almost visualize an elevation chart from those alone. I will keep trying to get Adobe FP working for me. Thank you for the link!

you can see on this link...a little hard to see the elevation, but it's there/

(btw, that data was not mine, it was another BT member that did the pre ride.  I had a max speed of 48.4mph!!!)

NEIL -

Thank you for that link! It didn't work earlier, but just came through loud and clear.

That course looks like a blast. I mean, nothing like a momentous climb out of T1 to bring the legs to their senses (or knock them senseless....). It would validate my approach to swimming, which has my legs doing 99% nothing. Conversely, it would be wicked for anybody who kicks like a fiend, and I'm not sure that type of swimmer would have much fun once out of the water.

I have printed it, and need to find Lynn's hand lens in order to make sense of the numbers on both axes. But for now, i'm just reveling in the profile all on its own.

Thanks again!

Steve...Lisa...

I am considering a big block training week when a buddy of mine comes down Nov 1.  We will have about 10 days and I wanted to get seeral long (specifically on the bike) rides in during that time.  I don;t want to wait till the usual Saturday long ride, I am thinking several long rides.  These are some workouts I  want to do in the 10 days...do you think it is doable, beneficial, and safe?

3hr Ride w 60min Brick

4hr ride w 90min Brick

5hr ride w 90min Brick


also, 2 stand alone 100-110 mile days

1 16-20 mile long run @ IM pace

several 8-10 mile runs

oh...and swim at least 8 of the 10 days.


This would be from Nov 1 -Nov 10ish///then start the taper til Nov 21.

NEIL -

I will post nopw, but then immediately send out an APB for Lisa to get her here with some more cogent thoughts. I say that because (1) her iron experience is much more recent than mine, (2) her coach pushed her much harder than mine pushed me back when, and (3) (I thought there was a third, but I can't grasp it now....). Oh! Yeah! She is generally less kid-gloves with herself than I am with myself, and what you are proposing strikes me as quite bold.

But, putting on my thinking cap anyhow........

IMAZ is the 21st, which gives you, really, two full weeks to fit in the stuff you mention -- or some combination thereof. You actually mention 10 days, and that sounds good because the iron-taper should be fairly generous.

You mention five rides, with the bricked ones being about 56, 75, and 94 miles. And then the two stand-alones of 100-110. My cautious (and thus prevailing) thought is just one of those would serve you well enough, and keeping it to 100 is also enough. I suspect that your rides will be more hilly than what you will have at AZ (that's almost a 500% certainty, isn't it?), so at some point added topographical exertion will carry more weight than just logging miles of mostly flats, yes?

As for the bricks, at this stage you are probably safest doing the two "smaller" ones -- 3hr+60min and 4hr+90min. I can see the benefits of the 5hr+90min.......but maybe not so close to race day. You should be about at Peak intensity with your training now, which is a bit down from Build, which is a bit down in overall time from Base, but your hours in the workouts you mention are closer to the latter two than to Peak.

As for the other stuff, the long run sounds good, especially sooner rather than later. The lesser runs also sound good, and with the same caveat. And the swims? Sure!

For me, I would not find your plan doable, largely because i would fear for the safety aspect. BUT THAT'S MOSTLY JUST ME!! You are more bionic than I am.....although the stress fracture is/might be a caution. I live in fear of hurting myself at longer stuff, so anything I say above should be considered with a grain of that salt.

As for beneficial, maybe that comes back to the notion of "if it doesn't kill you it will make you stronger". But, again, i think about the concepts of Base/Build/Peak, and with Peak just about here for you, you might be trying to fit in too much heavy-duty stuff too close to race day.

However, if you can fit in several of those longer efforts between now and Nov 1, then that changes things. I get the feeling that you are hoping/planning to take lots of time off from work to accommodate workouts with him, and of course that's the ideal situation in which to do long stuff and multiple workouts on several days. Is it possible to do one of the long bricks and one of the long stand-alone rides on each of the next couple of weeks, before Nov. 1?

I hope some of the above is useful for you! I really do wnat to defer to Lisa about this, so I wiill try to flush her out of the tall grass in which she has been hiding the past week or so!

Edited by sax 2010-10-14 10:40 AM

NEIL -

Great new photo!!!

I can see your interest in more than one century if it is good mentally for you. And all the better if you know of where you can do it without major traffic and topographic challenges. Just curious, though --- where exactly? Do you have to go east over the mountains before you get to anyplace that offers that combination.

I can also see why you still feel you are in Build, and that is vaild, too. So just so long as you can spread those major workouts over the next four weeks, you should be able to handle it.

If it makes you feel any better at all, were I to do another iron I would stop my long runs at 18 and just hope for adrenaline/experience to carry me for the rest. In my case it would be for injury prevention that I would stop at 18, still smarting some from my experience last fall in getting set for Kiawah marathon......and then getting ITB issues 10 days out from the race. But I fully understand that you want to get a fair ways beyond 12 miles, as would I.

Chaaaaaaarge!

PLANS! PLANS! PLANS!

What's left out there for '10?

NEIL - IMAZ

JESS - Philadelphia Marathon

LISA - a 50-miler.....but which one?

MINDY - anything else?

ME - patching together some running stuff:
-- Oct 17 -- MADD Dash 10km (Ottawa area)
-- Oct 23 -- 9 Run Run Half Marathon (Ottawa area)
-- Nov 7 -- Cookie Run 10km (Ottawa)
-- Nov 21 -- Whitby Watefront 10-miler (east of Toronto)
-- Dec 11 -- Rehoboth Beach half marathon (DE)

All subject to change, of course!

If the half marathons go well or better than well, that will add incentive to returning to doing more half irons next year. Again, I am sorry I missed out of getting into Eagleman; will I ever learn how quickly that fills?? I'll probably do Musselman, and maybe finally fulfill a 7- or 8-year-old dream of doing Steelhead (don't know why, with a run double-looped mostly through an industrial park; well, the swim and bike are very nice). Maybe an attempt on run redemption at Half Vermont. Pumpkinman? Return to MightyMan Montauk? Who knows?

And with Jess in at IMLOO.......here I go again! I dithered away vast hours last fall with LOO thoughts, only to turn the dithers into the withers.......and I slithered away. That'll probably happen agin, so maybe I shouldn't even bother. But still.........

Yay for the half marathons, Steve - 'tis the season I actually think I'm going to go down the shore to run a half marathon tomorrow - Seaside Half Marathon. Then I'll do a nice 3-4 mile cool down. I'm still sad I missed LBI last weekend, but I know it was for the best! I have 30 miles under my belt so far this week - 5 monday, 10 tuesday, 5 wednesday, off thursday, and 10 last night. Today is a rest day, then hopefully 16 or 17 tomorrow. A good strong week that will set me up well for breaking 50 next week or the week thereafter

You have a busy end-of season set up there! And as for next year, dither away... You know you want to see one of your mentees attempt her first IM

So, on a cool, and slightly related note - I was talking to the guy two offices down from me this week. Turns out he is a biker, and his girlfriend is an elite triathlete. Like, so good she was the top amateur at the US Open Tri down in Dallas last weekend - she actually beat a few pros too. Apparently she is considering going pro herself. I looked her up - her oly time is around 2:10-2:20 and her half time at Timberman this year was 4:44. Looks like she was the Number 2 non-pro at Columbia last year. So cool! Apparently, she also won the NYC Tri - well, top non-pro, I guess - when I told him I did the doggy dash he was so excited, haha. He said he was considering doing it next year, but that it would really impede his spectating

Anyway, he's really nice and a bit of a bike guru, so I'm hoping to get some repair and maintenance lessons, and maybe some help learning to pack my bike for air-travel (already making plans to bring it over to Belgium with me next summer. I'll be going over in July for 2 weeks because my younger host-sister is GETTING MARRRRIED! It'll be prime training time for IMLOO, I'll be on Vacay, and cycling in Belgium is just so.much.fun.) He also said that one of the partners likes to ride, and that they do summer rides from the office on Wednesdays during warmer weather, and that his GF normally tags along. I'd never be able to even keep up with them, but I can follow from a distance as long as they give me directions! haha...

MINDY -

Those activities definitely count as ways to connect with the world at large and make you aware that there are other priorites in life beyond the SBR stuff. A guy from the other group raced once over the summer, which then got devoted to teaching his 16-year-old to drive & coaching another daughter's softball team & taking a family vactaion to Rocky Mountains N.P. & rediscovering an interst in his own job. Needless to say, he feels wonderful about his summer evolved!

Amidst concerns that I maybe have a stress fracture (hello, NEIL!!!) in my right foot, I ventured off to do the MADD Dash 10km this morning. This was about 45 minutes from home, and the first thing I did upon arriving was a brisk little 5-minute run -- just to see how the foot felt. It felt fine, so I then went to get my bib and chip and piddle around for an hour or so before the 10:00 start.

Great day for temp and sun, but quite windy. The course is kind of boring, traveling through middle- and upper/middle-class neighborhoods in Kanata, probably the premier bedroom community in Ottawa. With the exception of two or three little risers in is flat, and limited to only about ten 90-degree turns. Quite reasonable. (Excepting the wind.)

My initial goal was to see how long I could work for a 42-minute 10km, which would require 4:12/km. Here are my paces for the first 8km, with the last 2km being combined (saw no marker for 9km):
4:18
4:13
4:16
4:24
4:20
4:28
4:17
4:39
9:02

OOPS! None of those were at the required 4:12!!! So it goes! After the 4:13 I was thinking maybe, butt ehn there was the 4:16....and the 4:24....and the 4:20......and as I passed 5km at 21:34 I knew with 273% certainty that I had overshot my abilities (no surprise, but I was marginaklly hopeful going in.)

Kms 4-6 were big windy buggers, as was the last km. The 4:39 is likely an aberration, and combined with the 4:17, also an aberration, it tells me that a marker was misplaced; the average of the two, 4:28, is more likely!

Quite sore calves after suggest that I worked hard against the wind, which was in fact the case. Still, i'm not used to sore calves, although I'm pleased to report that they feel good right now, about 7 hours post-finish.

I was 8/112, though, and that's MUCH better than I might've hoped for. My pace was 4:25/km, 5-10 seconds per km off what my second goal might've had. Realistically I wanted right around 43:00, but I guess that will have to wait until the Cookie Run 10km on Nov 7.

As for the stress fracture possibility, um, maybe not? I don't like how the foot feels, but I'm now suspecting something nerve or tendon in nature --- either of which needs coddling, but is vastly preferable to a metatarsal S.F.!!

Next up (foot willing): 9 Run Run Half Marathon (Stittsville, ON, about 55 minutes from home).

JESS -

Did you do it? Huh? Huh? Is Seaside in the books for you??

The plan for it and its cool-down sounds great, but I'm sure if you chose otherwise you still got in some good mileage for the day. BUT.....I hope you did Seaside!

As for my ambitious schedule, well, that will depend on how the foot feels over the next......while. I think my big mileage week-to-ten-days took its toll on me, which I guess is another blow for looking to Go Long anytime soon. Curses!

With that in mind, realistically IMLOO probably won't happen for me. A big part of that is financial, as it's just a tough sell to make to Lynn (as, ultimately, she is the one financing it ). The more realistic plan for me is to save myself for IMLP when I turn 65, which would be in 2014. The trick there is to figure out a way to build myself up to Serious and Complete Ironman Training without hurting myself, and need a formula or something to predict gradual smart building as counteracted by the continuing forces of aging. (Waaaahhhhh!)

In my heart of heart, I really want to do IMLP again -- partly because it is so close to home (2.5 hours away) and thereof trainable, but also because I just wasn't 100% thrilled with how I did there in '04. So, we shall see!

In the Small World category, that is quite something about the guy two offices away from you, and his ultra-talented girlfriend. With that performance at Columbia, I wonder if she hangs in Lisa's circle. Coilumbia is fairly crawling with studs and studdettes from Lisa's neck of the woods.

Where is Lisa anyhow? I miss her! It's been over two weeks now, and I posted on her Facebook page the other day but don't think she responded. Was it something I said?? Oh, noooooo!

Can hardly wait for your Seaside report!

I did it, Steve! And I did it in major PR form! woo hoo

So, I just felt like running fast today. Rar. I had it in my mind this morning that I wanted to PR this. For no other reason than I just felt like running fast, haha. So, I did.

My Garmin broke in the move (screen shattered after Mark dropped my gym bag ) so I borrowed his. I set one of those little "virtual partner" things at an 8:30 pace, which would have me finishing at 1:51:26. For some reason, I don't have mile splits - I guess I didn't have that enabled. Suffice it to say, I unfortunately ran the first 6.5 faster than the second half - I was geared for a 1:49ish finish around the half... I tried to keep myself easy and steady. The first two miles of the race are out down the boardwalk, then you go onto the road towards Island Beach State park. You then run in the park until the turn around. I spent most of my time in the 8:15-8:20 range for the first half...

The second half was tough because my ITB started protesting. By Mile 9, it was really angry. I walked through 2 aid stations around miles 9 and 11, but other than that, I was able to keep the pace usually between 8:20-8:40. I tried picking it up a bit for the last mile, but fell a little flat. Finished in 1:51:09.

I saw the results posted before I left, and I finished exactly as Number 200 I think there were over 1000 people running today, so that's great.

Not to mention - PR!! I thought my PR was 1:52:something, so I went back to check the 2008 Long Branch results. Looks like I was wrong - I did 1:55:39 there. So today was over a 4:minute PR. Which is exciting!

So, I was excited. My ITB less so. OUCH. She is ANGRY. I stopped at the massage table and asked for some help before I left. I took some advil when I got home, and have already started the painful rolling process. Icing now too. Nothing some hard-core rolling and icing won't fix in a few days, but right now, stairs are a challenge!

I did an easy 3 mile cool down. It was so great to be running low-10's as an "easy cool down" - seriously felt like a jog. I used to be excited when I ran low 10's. Lots of progress over the last two years.

I really feel like sub-4 is a possibility for me at Philly. The MacMillan Calculator (I know...) says I should be aiming for a 3:53 with an 8:59 pace, based on todays results. That really sounds right to me. I need to run a SMART race - i.e. no mile splits under 8:50 allowed. Not even the first 10 miles. All splits between 8:50 and 9:10, and I should be able to pull it off.

Update -  results are up online.

Distance	HALF MAR
Clock Time	1:51:20.63
Chip Time	1:51:09.44
Overall Place	195 / 718
Gender Place	49 / 357
Division Place	15 / 63
Sextotal	357
Divtotal	63
Pace	8:30

I thought there were over 1000 because of how high the numbers went... I forgot about the 5k! Oh well, still pretty great. And 15 out of 63 in the AG!! woo hoo!! And top 50 women!

JESS -

What a great race! Like, a really, really great race, soemthing that has to be a huge confidence-builder leading into Philly. That is a major PR-shatterer, and especially impressive given the ITB and the walks through two of the aid stations. Had the ITB doth not protesteth mightily, that 1:49 "predicted" time at the half point likely would've come to pass.

And 200/1000 is (working high-powered math here).......is.......is.......top 20%!! Woo-hoo!

Smart race for you? Um, yeah -- I'd bet my left elbow you'd run a smart race, can't imagine you doing much of anything less!

How did you do with nutrition today? Did you keep track of last night and this morning and during the race itself? And do you have any ideas as to how you will augment the protocol for today to reflect the double-the-distance of Philly?

My challenge next week will be nutrition. The first 14km (~8.5 miles will be covered with aid stations every 3km. But then comes close to four miles alone the Trans-Canada Trail, which is a Rails-to-Trails path that won't have any aid stations. That's kind of a critical point in a 1/2mar, and it will be an interesting challenge to come up with a plan that carries me through that stretch. I think i can pull it off, however!

Take good care of the ITB, Jess! I think you're a veteran roller, but if not, be careful not to overdo it. I ave in the past, and have paid dearly by way of having a bruised ITB along the length of my upper leg! Almost as bad as the ITB symptoms themselves!

Again -- fabulous job today! Sleep well - you earned it!

JESS again -

49 out of 357?? 15 out of 63?? HOLY-MOLY!!!!

JESS once more -

I did some comparative skulking, and saw that the winner today, in 38:04, did an earlier 10km in 37:18. Another guy, 41:47 today, did recent ones in 39:50, 40:16, 39:04, and 39:07. The others I checked had similar result differentials, so that makes me feel slightly better about what I was up against today, windwise.

(I do so love making statistics work in my favor! )