GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 246)

Boiled baby potatoes actually sound perfect. They have the carbs, and if I remember correctly I think they have a good amount of potassium. So if you're salting them, you've got your electrolyte replacement right there!

7:24... wow, that is fabulous! What a way to close out your season. (At least I think this is your closer, right?) Anyway, congratulations!

TRACEY -

Um, er, uh.....hopefully NOT my season closer! I have other fish to fry, or so I hope, such as:

Nov 7 -- Cookie Run 10km or Angus Glen Half-Marathon
Nov 21 -- Hannukah Hustle 10km or Whitby Waterfronnt 10-miler or Whit. Water. 10km
Dec 11 -- Rehoboth Beach half-Marathon

The wild cadr right now is a bunion on my left big toe. It has been there for several years, but has never kept me from a run and seldom bothers me. However, about e hours after finsihing yesterday it suddenly flared up, and felt quite "sharp" until I went to bed about 1am. It was still noticeable this morning, but just about as suddenly as it started it abated. I'm not sure what it was about, but it's cause for some concern, I suppose.

Conincidental thought about the potatoes:
One of daughter Jane's best friends ran the Chicago Marathon a couple of weeks ago, but suffered severe bloating and vomiting and was pulled from the course at an aid station at about mile 14. About returning to NYC two days later she started thinking about how to rebound from that performance, so signed up for Richmond Marathon, two weeks from now.
Jane called me today and told me that Alexandra is planning to carry a couple of salt packets (such as you'd use at McDonald's or Burger King) with her and use them as her sodium source. I thought about this for a bit and then wondered if it would work; I have never read about it, but know all about "formulated" salt products. But then I thought about my own potato trick, complete with salt just sprinkled on them in the baggy, and i suppose as far as using salt packets is concerned -- why not?

Pats got lucky today, huh? And wasn't it sweet to see the Yankees go down with A-Rod taking a called third strike? Ha!!!

DENISE -

A bike focus is good for anyone, as that is almost always the segment that takes the most time. Plus, as long as one's position is correct (did you see Anne's post from yesterday?), it is the activity that carries the least threat of injuries. I've never lost time from a bike injury, once I got my position correct and rid myslef of S-I joint problems. But lower-body stuff from running and shoulder issues from swimming have led me to several fairly lengthy layoffs.

As for 14-16 hours, I can tell that it takes a lot of work to get up there. Now, if one counts stretching and strength work and related things such as Yoga and Pilates or rowing machines, then the numbers can jump fairly fast, but if it's just SBR stuff, then 14-16 hours/week is intense.

I think just about anyone can benefit from heart-rate training, and for a while it was valuable for me. I guess the big thing was that it got my more in tune with my body, at least to some degree. Were I to start this stuff all over again, I would incorporate HR training.

The catch for me came when I wasn't getting the correlations I wanted. By that I mean that if I was supposed to be doing a Zone 2 workout, it just often didn't seem enough. I guess it went the other way, too.

The bigger catch was that I knew I wouldn't wabnt to rely on it in a race, as I just didn't trust it to reflect how I might actually feel on race day. If I set my limits at a certain heart-rate-based effort, and if I felt either better or worse on race day, then where would that leave me? Well, wither under-performing, or bonked on the side of the road. So, i never used my HRM in a race, although up through '04 or '05 I commonly trained with it.

So, my whole thing is perceived exertion, mostly. I like to think that I have trained for long enough that I trust my sense of where I'm at, but admittedly it is not perfect. Yesterday was about as good as it gets, but for the final four miles I was wondering, just wondering, if I had rolled the dice too aggressively. But I'm not sure HRM would've helped me. Maybe regular markers would have, but as I think I siad yeaterday, i ended up running faster than the pace I would've set for myself had I had markers every kilometer! So, for yesterday anyhow, perceived exertion turned out golden!!

getting back to HRM, it was essential for me when I was doing really intense workouts on the treadmilll a few years ago. I would aim for Zone 4 at the least, and get there, and hold on for dear life. Without the HRM, I wouldn't've allowed myself to push that hard -- I just would've backed off and saved myself considerable suffering! Those workouts were real killers, but i loved the sense of having pulled them off -- and it just world not have happened without the HRM setting the bar so high!

FYI, in past years my 'off season' training has been about 7-8 hours per week - off season being November to beginning of March.   My season would end beginning of September, then I would take 2 months off structured trainining (transition) and do other stuff but still bike for fun, hike, etc.  

However, I have been gradually increasing my weekly hours in anticipation of doing longer distances and am now doing about 9-11 hours S/B/R/Strength plus 4-6 hrs of yoga.   Next week I have 13 hours of S/B/R/strength.   So I'm thinking 16 hours of tri training alone IS alot.   The 20 week half training plan I'm going to follow peaks at 15 hours of training in week 17. 

I train with my HR monitor and RPE.   I think Steve is right that you have to use both and the HRM will help you learn how to use RPE better and be in better tune with your body.   I'm the opposite of Steve though.   I need the HRM to keep me from going too hard all the time.   BT has some good field tests that you can use to determine your zones.   You need to be in good shape to do them without hurting yourself but you should have no trouble with them.   I wouldn't be able to do the run tests, because I have been off running for so long.  

Race photos --

From 9 Run Run, it's www.zoomphoto.ca, click on 9RunRun, then bib 2444. Zoom is always prolific, with any given race providing many images of oneself. At 9RR they were all from the first and last 1.5km or so. The final bunch, with pretty foliage, were along the Trans-Canada Trail, a rails-to-trails gem, which made up the last 7+km of the race (excepting the .5km stretch to the finish).

I mostly like the four that just happen to be lined up under the photo of the hand (not mine) holding the medal.

Fashion notes on "accessorizing":
(1) The lump over my left hip in some of the photos is my gel flask.
(2) The white thing dangling from the right side of my shorts would be my socks -- removed 30 seconds before race start, but carried along just in case my feet started to freeze.

Steve,
Congrats on a GREAT race. Wow, 1:37:08 - just FAST!!!!

So, got on the site today and noticed that my last two posts didn't post.   Not sure what happened there. Oh well.

2 weeks out from my final race of the season.  Mind is playing mind games.  Am I ready enough, blah, blah, blah.  LOL.

Toying with what the program will be this week.  I think I'm gonna try and get in at least 3 more heavy workouts.  Long swim today.  Longish trainer brick tomorrow, and a LSR on Wednesday.  I figure anything done after that isn't really going to have any impact on race day.  BUT, I'm also wanting to get in one more 60-mile ride this weekend.  Just not sure if I should make it an easy flat ride just to get a few more hours in the saddle, or if I should do one of the hill routes. 

I know that any real benefit will take 7-10 days to manifest in the taper - so, with just 7 days till race day, does one more longish ride this weekend do me any real good from a physical standpoint?  Or, more importantly, does it do me any harm to do one more long ride that close to the race?  I suspect the mental benefit of a good ride this weekend could be beneficial.

Oh...and the Broncos make me sad.

congrats on the dreamy finish!

Steve,

So, I was reading the posts about bike fitting and had a question in that area.  

How often should you get fitted?  And, is there a better time of the year to get fitted (relative to training periods)?

OK, two questions I guess.

Anyway, I'm thinking ahead to next year and wondering:
1)  When you get new shoes or peddles/cleats, etc., is it a good idea to get refitted just to make sure that the new hardware is accounted for?
2)  How do fluctuations in weight impact the fit?  I'm still 5-10 lbs heavier than I was in May, and will likely add a few more between now and the end of the holiday down period when I start ramping up again for next year's season.  Once Silverman is done, I plan to take at least 8 weeks off any consistent cycling, just to get away for it for a period and let the mind refresh. 
3)  Are there any other milestones that you look at when considering a fitting?  I'm thinking out loud about base vs. build vs. peak phases.  If you assume your strength is increasing in each case, does that impact the fit, or change how the bike should be fit to you?

Thanks for your help!

SteveA - How come you're a Bronco's fan? - aren't you in California?

SteveB and Anne - Thanks for comments on HRM training.  I mostly just want to see if my perceived exertion matches up to zones.  I certainly won't be a slave to HRM.

Anne - Boy, I didn't realize you were getting in so many hours.  You'll be in good shape for next season, and especially the season after that.  (Give your heels to the Goodwill).

SteveB - nice pics, and so many.  I like the foilage ones.

Denise

STEVE -

That last long ride -- to do or not to do, and if to do then how long to do?? Such matters how vexed the minds of great people for decades!

Well then. If you are feeling mostly fresh, then one last long ride shouldn't hurt at all. And if you are feeling that it will have mental benefits, then that's a tick in the "Do it!" column.

How often have you tackled hills? I think quite a bit -- not just for Silverman prep, but also just in general. (I vaguely remember some race you did in SW Utah in early May, and the hills it maybe had..... ) So, my first choice for you would be saddle time, if you are sure that will help your head. If you do that, 60 miles is probably okay.

If you have this gnawing feeling about hill preparedness - like, REALLY gnawing - and if you are sure you will take that all the way to Henderson with you, then you might want to do a hilly ride as a grand finale. And, if so, reduce it in distance - to at least 50, maybe even 45.

My overriding thought here is that this close to Silver, any hillwork you do will not help you come race day. I'm quite convinced that your hill skills are there, and all more hillwork will do at this point is wear into a bit -- maybe not much, but I don't think you want any. But as for saddle time, just a pretty easy three hours or so, that'll be fine. (Should be, anyhow. )

On to the bike questions!

As I've said to Anne, I was a baby just about a year ago when I scheduled a fitting and then bailed two days before. Prior to that, my last fitting was in June '03, I believe, and I just felt last year that I should revisit it. I had become a decent enough cyclist that I was looking for a further edge, and so i figured that that far out from the '10 season was the right time to do it.

I bailed because I feared aggravating my S-I joint problem from '01-'03, and before I had the great fit that eliminated it, I had another comprehensive fit that did not solve it -- much to my huge chagrin. I came down to the thought that if it ain't broke don't fix it, and decided to do '10 in my time-honored position. I have since talked to my bike guru about getting a tweak or two made.....but I have yet to pull the trigger!

So, in answer to your questions I say let's do the second one first, and my answer would be as early in the off-season as possible. That'll just allow time for further tweaking, and a re-tweaking of that, and so on, as needed and if necessary.

As for the first question......um....er......
If you feel great on your bike and are very pleased with your performances, I'd say next to never. If your previous fit was conservative, meaning that your position is quite a ways from extreme and definitely on the "relaxed" side of things, then you might want to get less relaxed. If your body feels real good, mostly, especially your shoulders and lower back, then you can keep messing with fittings until you are in an absolutely optimal position.

For me, I know my position is not optimal; 90%, maybe? To get optimal, I would do it in increments (easy to say, considering I balk at taking that first baby step! ), and maybe my plan would be a fitting every October (or two....) until I got to optimal. How good do you feel on your bike, and how confident are you in your body's ability to adjust to changes?

For you further musings...
(1) Were I to get new cleats or pedals (same ones in both cases since April '01 -- and do the math on that one and you come up with a pair of gnarly shoes! ), I would have the whole deal looked at. One of the keys to my great fitting in '03 was the strategic placement of shims (?? -- anyhow, those little wedges that squeeze between the cleat part and the sole), so that is capable of re-arranging everything, it seems.
(2) Good question, and I'm not sure I have an answer. I would want my fit to happen when I am in my best race fitness.........which means that if I want to get a fitting I should do it soon, cuz my race fitness is taking a small hit. This involves a small increas in belly, and maybe that contributes a small amount to my ability to extend itself. Someone else might think this is silliness, but in a world where millimeters can make a difference, I think that if my reach on the bike is compromised just a little, that just could affect the fitting. But having said that, if I get fitted next week I know that the fit will be less than perfect between, oh, now and about June -- if my theory just stated holds any kernel of validity. In this case, consider me confused and simply thinking out loud, too!
(3) Your third question is even better than the second one.....and leaves me even more uncertain about an answer! I don't think that strength should have an effect on a fit. The strength elements will come from build-up of key musculature, but that won't alter leg length. At any time of the year a good fitting will include tests of how powerfully you can pedal at several different potential positions, but that will just be relative, one to the other, at the time of the fitting. At least that makes sense to me. So, if the fit-guy tries you in four positions, he will have the numbers for your power output in each of them and that, combined with your comfort levels, will determine which is best for you.
At least, that's how I remember it happening for me -- but that's kind of ancient history at this point! But the whole process took close to four hours -- it was that comprehensive! A lot of stuff happened in that time, and there were many, many tweaks!

(Twitter involves tweets, and a fitter involves tweaks? [Never mind.])

I hope some of the above has helped, and I apologize for my waffling on a couple of your deeper questions!

STEVE again -

Yes, that was a debacle-and-a-half, wasn't it?

You and Denise need to get together and share miserableness. I don't know what is worse -- Denver losing to Oakland or Minny losing to Green Bay!

DENISE? Any thoughts?

For this old boy, though, yesterday was mighty sweet!
--Pats got lucky against SD, but emerged to stand at 5-1.
--The Chiefs continued their winning ways, going to 4-2.
--And the Browns, goodgodalmighty, managed to make a winner out of Colt McCoy with an improbable win against the Saints. that was one bizarro game!!

It was so painful to watch the Vikings.

However, the Iowa(my husband)/Wisconsin(my daughter) game was really fun.  It went back and forth and Wisconsin finally won - their fake punt was really, really fun.  I think I'll stick to college ball.

Yes, peaking at 10 hours per week during the off season definitely seems like a lot to me! I was lucky to peak at 6 hours per week during the height of my training. My work and family commitments just don't allow much more than that. I'm hoping to have a look at whatever Anne sends me, then just tweak and/or condense it to match what I can do.

I had hopes last spring of following a full-year training plan that I had put together from TTTB, but that all went out the window in June when I was assigned to a new project at work and my workload basically tripled. At that point, I knew the best I'd be able to do would be to look at my schedule each morning and say, what can I fit in today? And if all I could do was a 30 minute run when I had been hoping for a 60/30 bike/run brick, well... I had to either cut out the bike workout for that week or try to squeeze it in another time.

I had a feeling you still had some races left in you this year! Hope the bunion issue clears up...

Yes, Pats were lucky for sure. But it's still a win. And it's so nice to see a Yankees-less World Series this year!!!

Great photos. And I agree with Denise, the foliage ones are nice. You're looking cool as a cucumber, as always!

Anyone ever tell you you look like Nick Nolte??

Tracey

TRACEY -

Actually, yes - many, many times! People have come up to me on the street and asked that, maybe 20-25 times over the years. I still can't really see it, except for maybe a crooked-mouth smile or something? Of course, once my head is uncovered, the illusion is ruined -- he, of course, is possessed of a fine head of hair. Aw, so it goes......

That schedule is still in flux. Cookie Run will almost cetrtainly happen, but beyond that it is up for grabs. And something i forgot to add is the Resolution Run 10km on New Year's Eve in Ottawa. that one I'm actually signed up for, way in advance because the giveaway for it is a running jacket. the cost of the race is $50, and the jacket itself is about that, so why not?

How are you feeling, with the big day less than a week away? You talk about me looking cool as a cucumber, but you're certainly acting that way -- it is VERY good to see!! I would love to be there to see you do it, but alas, i'm just going to have to sit here and try to feel the vibes, 300 or so miles away.

I hear old Brett has a fractured foot; surely he won't be able to start (or even play?) on Sunday against the Pats, right? Gee, that's just too bad! (Psst! But don't tell Denise we're wishing ill on her poor, beleagured team! )

How does the rest of your week look, leading up to.......(what is the race's name?)?

DENISE -

What, are you testing me? You toss out that comment about sticking to college ball......and you don't expect me to bite my tongue and not make some comparison with how the Vikings are playing? Well, I'l show you I can take the high ride and not say any such thing at all!

TRACEY again -

I just saw your post from the bootom of the last page. and all I can say is that of our group, you have it the toughest -- an unpredictable job and a young lad to tend to. I hope you have never been too bothered by being in the position of waking up and looking at a day and seeing what can be shoehorned in. I remember lots of days during my working life when it was roughly the same for me -- and my kids had pretty much flown the coop by then! So, I have the utmost sympathy and empathy for people who are in your situation. You really have done a fabulous job of keeping up with workouts while tending to priorities A through D!

I'm glad I decided to put the seat back to its original spot.   Last couple of rides are still feeling much better.   So that is good for the knee and if I stay away from the heels the neuroma seems to be good.   I actually have several different kinds of heels, both height and width, etc.  and they all aggravate the situation.   However, I am optimistic it will eventually go away.

I really like doing a swim after the run for the reason you mention - good therapy and will keep that up if I can.  On Sunday it just works out better if I can do the run after the swim.   It worked out well on Sunday and I had a pretty good run - 5.5km with just some shin tightness that I had to work out.   Had another good run today - longest so far  at 6.85 km and moved up to 5 minutes of running.   No neuroma problem but my left shin continues to tighten up after about 15 minutes of running.   Had to rub it out and do a couple of stretches and then it was fine.   This was even after doing a pretty good pre run warm up.

Hoping to ride outside tomorrow morning in the warm temps before the 60km/hr winds hit in the afternoon.  

Nice and warm in Ottawa today? 

ANNE -

Not yet, but later? I dropped the car at the agrage this morning and ran home, and shortly I'll bike there, get the car, and drive about 15 minutes from home where the shoulders are wide.........and that new stretch of paved road (formerly dirt) is located. That'll be a blast riding it! I've run it many, many times, and fantasized about it being paved because it has some topography to it, but never actually felt it would happen. But thanks to gov't stimulus packages for infrastructure, the United Counties of S,D, and G have chosen to turn that money into road widening and overall expansion --- and in the process has increased my cycling possiblities by a magnitude of about 93. Halleloo!

Very nice jumps-bumps with the running! You've got to be very pleased about that, yse? Is it correct that you are ahead of where you thought you might be? Halleloo again!!

Well, I guess it's time to marginally bundle up for the ride there, and hope that within 45 minutes it will be fairly comfortable. Ottawa is supposed to get to 19C toay, but here in the boonies, away from the effects of the uban heat island, it might make it to 16/17. we can only hope! And then the big winds hit during the evening and into most of tomorrow. Batten down the hatches!

ANNE again -

Oh, yeah -- I bought my six-month pass for pool&gym. So, I swam yesterday and then lifted, and right now my lats and pcs are not very pleased with me. Parts of my core are peevish, too. The triceps are fine, but the biceps -- not quite so fine.

I will return tomorrow and see what I am capable of doing; probably won't be much!

It's definitely more than a passing resemblance to Nick Nolte, so I'm not surprised to hear that you've gotten that one many times.

I'm feeling pretty good about the 10k! My original goal was to finish with a pace somewhere under what it was when I did my 5 miler back in February, which was around 12:30. Now that I've consistently been running at sub 12:00 min/mile, I have a secondary goal of finishing somewhere around there. I have no plans to try to meet or beat my pace from the 5 miles I did the other day (10:56), because that was (so far) a one-time accomplishment that I'm not convinced I can duplicate in a 10k! So with the pressure off, and with the confidence that my recent training has given me, I'm actually feeling pretty at ease about the whole thing. I'm thinking that I will probably end up somewhere at 11:45 min/mile, maybe 11:50 depending on whatever's going on that day with how I'm feeling.

As for this week, I'm kind of backing away from the 4 runs per week that I've been doing, in the spirit of a "taper!" I plan to get in a 3 or 4 mile run either tomorrow or Thursday, and possibly a bike ride.

The race is the 32nd Annual Spooner 10k at Buttonwood Park in New Bedford, MA. It will be fun because my sister in law (who is faster than me) and my friend Kristen (who is slower than me) are both doing the race too.

Not sure if anyone saw the story yesterday about Fran Crippen.  Just tragic.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/fran-crippen-death-heat-stroke-heart-problems/story?id=11967179

I know I'll never complain about a cold-water swim again.