GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 249)

Fantastic Tracey!

ANNE -

Too, too bad about missing the first CT class! Well, at least there is a make-up option, so the thing hasn't been deleted forever.

I think i've told you I loved Bikram when I did it, which was Jan-March '00 (can I even accurately remember that far back??). I may have already told tyou that Lynn and I have generous two-week passes to an Ottawa Yoga studio, and we're trying to figure out when to use it and which disciplines to follow. I had been leaning towards the hot ones, or maybe beginner Ashtanga, but then today, in looking at Sage Rountree's "Yoga For Athletes" (or some similar title), she made Yin sound very appealing - especially for endurance athletes. It focuses on balancing the meridian, and much of the work is on the hips and spine. Moreover, the fact that poses are held for up to five minutes is supposedly (makes sense to me) great for mental discipline. So, i think I might start with Yin!

Alond these lines, have you ever been to Sage Rountree's website -- www.sagerountree.com? Whether yes or whether no, go there and click on "Coaching" and then on "Articles on Endurance Sports". In that list are a series on training for different distances of runs while incorporating Yoga into the weekly schedule. I'd be very interested to see if what she is recommending for the Yoga activities sound right to you, especially when combined with running workouts. (She has a great rep and is a well-known presence, so I suppose I trust her judgment....but just wondering about a "second opinion" ) No hurry on this, but just curious about your thoughts!

Hey all. Thanks for the congratulations. It's been so busy at work lately so I haven't had time to log in and give a race report, but here's a quick and dirty:

The weather was great that day. It was upper 40's/low 50's during the race, and sunny with a little wind. I picked up my friend on the way there, who was doing the 5k walk that was happening at the same time. I left the house about 5 minutes later than I wanted, and my friend is also chronically late, so I ended up having to wait 5 minutes for her to get ready. So we made it to the race site with about 7 minutes until the start. There was essentially no parking, as the park where they were holding the race had limited parking areas, and they were all full. Street parking was taken up for blocks around the area. We totally lucked out and found a corner spot a few steps from the area where they were doing the number pick up. The only reason why we got the space was because I maneuvered around some orange traffic barrels that were blocking off a street, almost knocking one down in the process. But by then I had given up on getting to the starting line in time because the actual starting line was about 1/4 mile from number pick up. Lucky for me, the start ended up being about 5 minutes late. But I still had to RUN to the starting line, and had maybe 30 seconds to rest before start. So I was already breathless when I started. But I guess you could call it a warm up!

Overall the course was good. Really flat throughout. It was primarily residential and the police did a great job of managing the traffic. There was a steady climb between 3.5 and 4.5 miles, which was kind of a bummer, but after I made it past that I was feeling pretty good. It was quite lonely as I started at the back and only passed two people! But I don't mind running alone.

I finished in 1:11:49 (11:34 min/mile). I was 148 out of 151 overall, and 27/28 for my age group. Considering I ran about a minute per mile faster than I have in past races, I was somewhat chagrined to see myself so far in the back of the finishers, but I guess that's in part due to the small size of the field. I'm also consoled by the fact that everyone who finished after me was younger!

TRACEY -

Waiting a couple of days for the RR was worth it -- I love the part about you insinuating yourself around/between the traffic cones. I guess the next step would've been to just get out of the car and rearrange the traffic "furniture" yourself, i.e., remove it entirely. (Sounds like a gag from Mr. Bean!)

Warm-ups are always kind of good before straight running races, so yours to the start line probably helped. I have never-ever done a warm-up before a triathlon, but always do a real quick one before duathlons and running races. Well, let me amend that -- I never do a warm-up run before a tri, but I will get in the water early, if possible, and swim for a bit.

ANYHOW.....

Steady climb between miles 3.5 and 4.5? Who put THAT there? It doesn't seem to have fazed you much or slowed you down, so at least you moved one step closer to embracing inclines as your friend. Which is always a good thing, given that "flat and fast" is a coomon term, but that usually translates to "slightly rolling and fast enough".

As for being "somewhat chagrined", this is a great example of on any given day you never know who will show up to race. It's also a great example of the only outcome you can truly control is your own. You had some goals, and you felt they were good ones but maybe mildly ambitious --- and you went out and you crushed them. That was what you could control, and you did it in spades! But as for finishing further down than you wanted.....you had no control on who was going to show up, and apparently it was polpulated heavily by some talented runners.

FWIW, I have found that the later races go into the fall, the smaller the fields are AND the more likley it is that the hard-core runners will be a larger part of the crowd. I don't think this holds, really, for marathons and half-marathons, but for 10km, 5km, 8-milers, etc, that's what I have seen over the years.

What's next for you -- still a 2-miler on the 14th and a 5km on the 25th?

May your work load slacken some!!

STEVE A, hope you have a great race this weekend!

My husband and I are off to Denver early tomorrow morning to see our daughter in Mamma Mia.  Planning on going to the zoo or botanical gardens on Friday, then seeing the show Friday night.  My sister-in-law and brother-in-law fly in Saturday afternoon and we'll all see the show Saturday night, then they are off to Las Vegas on Sunday and we'll be on our way back home.

Hope everyone has a great weekend!

LISA

STEVE,

I did my first CT session this morning.    I am really going to love this.   Put a ton of info into my log and not keen on re-typing so hopefully you will find some time to check it out.   

ANOTHER beautiful day.   This week has been pretty awesome for weather!  

SHAUN -

YO!

Good to hear from you again, at least to know that you are alive and mostly well, and that things are going forward for you, sort of. There's the move, which constitutes a big move forward, and I hope that all turns out well. Is the dog an agreeable sort?

As for the job shift, from the sounds of it you just have to make it through the red tape before you land where you want. Does the move-in with your girlfriend mean that you are no longer considering a posting in Asia, was it?

Sorry about the shoulders (as it turns out, that's about the only part of me that's happy these days!), and as for the minimal exercise -- remember, no guilt! Your life has obviously been complicated enough, and there's only so many hours in the day and so many things that can make the "A" list of priorities, so.......

Innards poking out, outards poking in........yup, sounds like surgery might be a good idea after all! I hope you get the answers, and a path to follow, on Thursday.

Keep as posted on this, that, and the other thing!

ANNE -

Yay for a great start to the CT program! Are you still injury-free this morning, like, no late-breaking aches? Hope so!

I'm really impresssed that you managed to do your own calibrations! That was something I disliked about my own CT. I can't remember the details, and maybe there weren't any beyond the sneaking suspicion that I didn't do it quite right. So, often, I would ride one of the CT courses and go through the variety and pain of that, but not focus too much on whether I had things just so. I figured the variable workload and the forced suffering of doing the tougher courses must've been 90% of the point, with exactitude of numbers and comparisons being very secondary. (And I'm sticking to that perspective! )

Your off-season is off to a very fine start, you know!!

ANNE again -

Just curious -- how are you guys fixed for doctors down thataway? Our GP is retiring on Dec 24, and my sports doctor cannot take us, or even me alone, as our full-time doctor (but I can continue to see him for sports stuff), and NEITHER can recommend another doctor becasue there is a shortage of them around here!

It occurred to us that Peter, in Guelph, didn't seem to have any trouble finding a doctor, so does it so happen that there is not a shortage of them in the Guleph/Kitchener/Waterloo area? Let me know what you know about this, okay?

YES, still injury-free this morning!  In fact, I am amazed at how good I feel from the neck down.   Even though I had them lower the watts it was a tough workout and fairly long so was curious as to how I would feel this morning.   I did pick up some dead sea salts and had a bath after the workout.   Either they really work or I am in better condition than I thought.
My hamstrings have been REALLY tight the last couple of weeks (from running??) and the left one was quite bothersome climbing stairs the last couple of days but today both legs are great.   I did also have a chrio adj yesterday - my r hip was slightly elevated and pulling things out of alignment a bit and I had moved one of my ribs out from being a bit too aggressive at yoga the other day.   He also checked the bottom of my left foot with a tuning fork because I was concerned at with how sore it was - almost sharp pain when I walk - other foot feels similar but not as bad - after lots of poking and prodding,  he assured me that I have just bruised the bones from running on the sharp rocks on my last Sunday run.  Apparently we lose the padding protection there as we get older, especially women.  He told me not to run for a few days and let them heal up.    He said he saw nothing really out of the ordinary or anything to be concerned about - just routine maintenance to be expected from the level of activity we are doing.   So that was good news.   I have a massage appt scheduled for Monday so that will be good for the hamstrings. 

On the CT, maybe these are new models or something because the calibration is pretty easy.   I understand what you are saying about the comparisons of numbers, etc being secondary and the variable workload and SUFFERING giving you the training effect you were looking for.   Zach (owner of Ironheart) wants the cailbration to be precise because he does want to measure our improvement from our first LT test and watts I can sustain, so that we know how we are progressing, as well as seeing in what positions on the bike we can generate the most power or where we are the weakest and I guess if the calibration is off, that would affect the diagnostics?   Plus we are paying for a program that is 'guaranteed' to give us an  average functional threshold power increase of 11%.   CT guarantees 4%, but Zach's program is a 'scientifically guided and periodized training/coaching program' which is supposed to account for the additional 7%.   My chiro did this program last winter and has signed up again.   There is a Dr. Chris Kraemer (a top IM athlete) working with Zach and participating as well.   He feels confident I will be generating 200 watts by the end.   Whatever happens, I'm sure I will be a better cyclist than when I started.  

I was a bit concerned when I found out that both workouts are going to be 'hard' ones but they assured me that I would be fine.   One workout will be aerobic conditioning and one will be interval training.   The thing is their idea of aerobic conditioning and mine are 2 different things.     

I'm feeling pretty happy about my off season start.   The is the best and most consistent I have been since I started doing triathlon.  For the first 2 years, I pretty much stopped S/B/R from Sept-March and had to start all over again.    A bit annoyed that I have finally come down with a real cold.   Have felt off and battling something for a few weeks so maybe now that it has broken, I can move on.   It isn't a doozer either.  

Am sitting here watching huge snowflakes come down.   First morning we have woken to snow on the ground.   I always love the first snowfall.   Don't think it will last though - supposed to be 13 next week.  

What's the plan for this weekend?

Doctors!  Not my favorite subject (GP's that is).   Supposedly we have a shortage here as well and have had for years.   However, when Ken gave up his TO doctor he had no problem landing a doctor, and a good one too.   Another friend in Guelph had her GP die a year or so ago, and she didn't have any trouble getting a doc either, although she isn't that fond of him.  

When my doc retired someone just took over the practice.  It has taken years to develop a good relationship with her.   That's what really bugs me.   You pretty much have to take what they give you.   I think you should be able to interview a few, and select the one you feel most comfortable with.  

I wish you luck in your search.  

STEVE,

I just noticed that Steelhead next year is August 14th, 4 weeks after Musselman.   Assuming we fare well on Musselman, would we be able to do Steelhead or is that too close?   I think I remember that Steelhead is supposed to be a good one?

Well, it's about "go time" - headed to Lost Wages tonight.  Packet/registration tomorrow, and the Tin-Man distance on Sunday. 

It's my new name for the HIM distance. 

Lost Wages and Tin-Man - I like those!!!   

Hope you have a great race and meet all your goals.   Looking forward to the report.  

Steve -

Argh! You beat me to it -- sort of. Thing is, i have more of the nitty-gritty than you supplied! (Can't find wave start times, though. )

I obviously hope you have a terrific day, and will follow you on tracking as much as possible. I REALLY envy you doing this one!

---------------------------- STEVE AT SILVERMAN ON SUNDAY -------------------------------


SILVERMAN TRIATHLON HALF-IRON

Lake Las Vegas,
Henderson, NV

8:30a.m. start (no wave info, however)

Athlete tracking for this race can be accessed through www.silvermannv.com. And once on the website, check out the elevation profiles for the bike! (Also, read the comments about what to do if one happens upon a Desert Tortoise crossing the road during the bike portion of the race.)

Good mojo sent your way Steve - tear it up!

ANNE -

It depends on how much you put out at Musselman. If you go in kind of exploratory and not laying everything on the line, then you could/should be ready for a second half-iron four weeks later. (FWIW, my first HIM was followed by a second one three weeks later.....and then another one three weeks after THAT! )

The idea would be to take about 3 or 4 days off after Mussel, maybe just doing an easy ride and a light swim or two. That would leave you a little over two weeks to fit in some harder/longer workouts, and then it's tapertime all over again.

An advantage is that Steelhead is an easier course than Musselman. That is not to say that Mussel is way difficult, but it does have its challenges - especially on the run. So one way to MAYBE view things is to approach Musselman as a build-up to Steelhead, and I think there is a lot to be said for that --- if for no other reason than it is a bit risky to put too much emphasis on a first attempt at one of the long distances. Or to flip that around, if you can afford (physically, metally, finacially) to do two half-irons, then using the first more as a learning experience has a lot of validity.

As I have said to Denise, I have a long-standing infatuation with Steelhead -- going back to its first year, I guess. A cycling group known as the Michigan Outlaws (sounds more like bikes than cyclists!) were big movers behind it at its inception, and their website was full of witty and tantalizing descriptions of the course. It has caught my attention, too, that it is a week or two later this year than in the past, when it was always either aorund July 30/31 or Aug 5/6 or so, and I'm thinking about doing the Mussel/Steelhead pairing myself (it makes evolutionary sense, moving from an invertebrate to a vertebrate).

I love the arrangement of the Stlhd swim, where it can go either N-S or S-N, depending on currents on the eastern edge of Lake Michigan. (However, that did not save the swim in '09, when it had to become a duathlon.) And I love how the bike looks, a single loop that is mostly falt or rolling and travels through lots of farmlands and orchards before shooting down parallel to the shore headingback to Benton Harbor. The run is generally considered a drag, however, as there is a doubled portion that travels through the campus of Whirlpool. Lots of people have complained about running through parking lots, although an upside to this is that traffic is minimal. Apparently there are abundant lakeside pathways that could be part of the run, and people keep hoping that will be announced, but so far the course has stayed true to its origins.

Of the 70.3 races, it is one of the less expensive; it and Kansas and Branson are the three that start at $225 (or maybe $200) before doing the bump-up to $250 (or maybe $225). I guess thta's not much, but it counts for something. For me, though, i would wait until crunch-time to register, just so I don't get caught having to bail due to an injury. It's tempting to sign up early and save $25....but not if it means losing $225 later on. Historically, Steelhead does not sell out -- I think -- but as I continue to entertain it, I will probably make a phone call to Ironman just to make sure of that.

Lodging is apparently slightly tight there, so you might want to book now or soon and have something secured. It's not the kind of race where lodgings will try to nail you for a 2- or 3-day minimum, so I'm sure you can just book for the night before and have a reservation that allows cancellations maybe up until 6p.m. the night of. As for camping options, maybe 20 miles south, near Charleston, Indiana, is Indiana Dunes State Park. It's a big place, to be sure, but on trips out that way I have tented there twice, and got fairly decent sites. Fairly decent. Fairly. BUT -- raccoons included, and lots of them, and most more than happy to come up to your car and try to do a walk-through if you've left a door open while unloading or loading. They're fairly cute. Fairly. (Barely?)

More later on other topics!

I checked out Sage's website a few days ago and forgot to respond (at least I don't think I responded).  My head is a bit foggy with this cold right now. 

It's a good site with lots of good information.  I printed off a couple of her run programs for reference and possible future use if there was a time when all I was doing was training for a run, like maybe in the fall.   Plans are pretty heavy with 5 days of running a week, something I doubt I will do.   Just yesterday my chiro said to keep my running to 3 days per week.  He doesn't feel you need more than that even for HIM (which he has done).  Wants me to do just what is req'd to get the training effect and no more.   I have seen and heard this advice alot, but I think I could handle 4 times per week on occasion.  

Anyway, she has yoga pretty much on all running days, after the run.  It's not power yoga but great stuff.   She's quite adamant about yoga, especially power yoga, being periodized similar to nutrition and training - as the intensity of our training increases, yoga should decrease, similar to strength training, with 1-2 sessions per week for maintenance all year long.   Off season and foundation/base training are when we can go nuts with the yoga.   Will reap lots of benefits from the strength, flexibility and balance work plus, as you say the mental strength and 'toughness'.   Not to mention the breathing.   

We only have so much time in a day but if I was you I would do BOTH Bikram and Yin.   They complement each other well.   I met the owner of a Yin studio in Cambridge, doing one of the Bikram classes, and after talking to her got all excited about it - but with the cost and the time involved it was just too much.   I found a really good boxed set of books/DVD's on Yin at Chapters and I am eventually going to purchase it.   It is something you can do quite easily at home while Bikram you really shouldn't.     You don't need to be flexible to do Bikram.  In fact, if you aren't, then you really should do it.  

As to when to fit yoga in with running, it will depend on the type.  Yin and other gentle forms of yoga are great right after running.  Since it is more static stretching than dynamic, that's probably when I would do it.  If it's Bikram, from talking to other triathletes, it's personal preference.   MY personal experience is that Bikram is too hard too do after running, but my running seems to really benefit when I do Bikram the day before, and it works OK with Bikram preceding yoga on the same day.  I am always strong and calm after Bikram, never tired or weak. 

I'll be interested to hear how you make out.  

Thanks for this.   You're starting to scare me a bit though.   You have mentioned the challenging run more than once.   I would like to get a frame of reference on just how challenging it is.    I was surprised to see the race in August as well.  A friend did her 1st HIM there this year in July so I just figured it would be out of the question.   

We have no intention of 'racining' our first HIM.   That's one of the things Harry taught me right off.   Once you move up to a longer distance the first event should be strictly exploratory and a learning experience re nutrition, intensity, transitions, etc. etc.  so you are well prepared to race your 2nd event.    Perhaps that's why I loved my 1st Oly last year.  No stellar time (3.18) but I felt great during and after so I am keen to do more. 

I am glad that it generally doesn't sell out.   We will wait until the last possible moment to register.   We do that fairly often, even though I hate paying the extra fees.  We will book some accommodation though.   Have pretty much given up on camping the night before a race.  Easier to make my own breakfast, and just don't want to risk waking up with a sore back or neck, although I know that can happen in a motel/hotel as well.   

Wouldn't that be great if we all ended up doing both those races next year!      

ANNE -

Which one have I said is challenging? Musselman, yes? As for the Steelhead run, I think the only challenging part of it is mental -- that it is considered to be boring and tedious. I remember the elevation map as being indicative of rolling, but with small rollers, is all, and I don't remember any race reportsa s having cursed the topography. (Maybe some expletives thrown at the temperatures, however!)

For Musselman, the challenge is the climb from about mile two through mile seven or eight, culminating in the slog up through the orchard and then the right turn onto the road and the 150 yards or so along that......before it all starts to blessedly go downhill again! I think the biggest challenge comes for people who are aiming for a fast time, as those few miles of on-and-off climbing can really hurt. And then they get to the orchard and they're gassed. But for people who are being more measured about the race, the orchard isn't all that bad -- just another hill, although steeper than the ones preceding it. All it requires is a couple of minutes of one-foot-in-front-of-the-other, and it's done. there is 9or used to be) an aid station partway along it, and that is the ideal situation in which to give yourdelf permission to walk through the station to re-fuel -- and recoup some taxed energy. By the time you're apppraoching thr Hobart-William Smith campus on the return, it really is all either downhill or flat to the finish - perfect!

If your bodies are holding up well next summer, I see no reason for you to not consider Steelhead. As you will not be racing or even pushing Musselman all that hard, you should have plenty left for Stlhd. As I said yesterday ---- a few days of solid recovery, a few harder and longer workouts, and then taper and head off to Michigan!

I did those three HIM in '01 as I said -- two weeks between each. Those were my 6th, 7th, and 8th triathlons, so i was still plenty raw. I certainly had not even an iota of the bike mileage you and Ken have behind you, and I dare say you have done way more swimming over the years than I did leading up to those three HIMs. Running is maybe a different matter, as I had a few years of moderately serious straight running before I started triathlons, but that hardly outweighs the benefits you and Ken have from what you have doen the past few seasons.

Timberman was the first, went well enough (5:51 or so). Three weeks later was The Canadian Half, and I felt pretty fresh; it was 5:35. The third one, three weeks later was in MD, and it was about 5:42. The challenge there was partially heat, but mostly my head -- I couldn't get it OUT of my head that that there was no good reason to be doing a third HIM so close to the previous two. I can't say that cost me any time during the race, but it certainly affected my enjoyment of the day. That thought plagued me throughout the bike and for about half of the run. Grrr!

I say all that just to illustrate that at least for me, doing the first two, with just two weeks in between, went well. I was highly motivated for Canadian, having made it through Timberman without having hurt myself and having learned lots. I could hardly wait for The Canadian, in fact! It helped quite a bit mentally that, like Musselman/Steelhead, Timberman/Canadian is going from harder to easier -- make it through Timberman okay, and ANYTHING is possible!

My perfect '11 world,as I see it now, would include Musselman and Steelhead....but I'm not counting on anything right now. I decided not to do Cookie Run 10km this morning, just because my feet are feeling kind of battered and I'm wondering if it;'s time to shut down the season. I think the 10km three qeks ago, six days before a hard-run 9RunRun, took its toll on me and my lower extremities. But more on that later!

Did any of the above help with your anxieties as you view Musselman, and also as you view Musselman combined with Steelhead? I hope so!

ANNE -

Yikes! I just noticed your post on the bottom of the previous page, the one about Sage and yoga. thank you! But I now owe you responses for about three paost, so my "later" is being extended AND deepened.

I shall return!

STEVE,

Did any of the above help with your anxieties as you view Musselman, and also as you view Musselman combined with Steelhead? I hope so!

Very much, thanks.   We have added Steelhead to the mix (instead of the shorter Niagara on Aug 7th and Orillia Aug 21st).  If Musselman takes too much out of us we can fall back on original plan, but I'm pretty keen on Steelhead now.   Works better with our other vacation plans of a 2 week backcountry canoe trip in Algonquin mid August.   We will be covering alot of territory on that trip and don't plan on any more tri's after it.   Only big thing would be the Centurion and then maybe some stand alone running races in the fall.  

ANNE -

STILL not tending to other matters with you, but on the topic of Steelhead......

Have you examined the photo that is the background to the registration page? Unless I'm mistaken, it is a winter photo -- ice in the background, people bundled up on the pier. Or are my eyes deceiving me?