GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 252)

I agree with you that there is lots to choose from when it comes to improving, but I agree with you a ton on Recovery and Nutrition and they are on the top of my list.   I will take it from you that I will need to work on bricks because I don't have alot of experience in that area and I haven't been running all summer so I can imagine it will be important for me.   

I guess my other three priorities for this winter will be working on my bike power, doing strength training and continuing to add some run mileage, nice and easy.      I dropped the strength training the last couple of years and regret it.  

Good luck with your 'work on' list.  

I'm not buying it either.  

STEVEB,

Did you get that e-mail about HVJ?    That is sad.   I am so glad we got to do it in case it doesn't come back.  

Steve
Yeah, this is a new consideration for me. A few of the local guys I know and talk with about triathlon are taking on HIMs and IMs, so I am seeing them doing it and thinking - hey, I can too.

I need at least one of the kids to get out of HS to reduce how busy we are with activities, ect. I think a minimum of 2 years is needed to get a go base, 3 years would have 2 of the 3 girls out of HS and should allow the time needed for training.

I have found the discussions here very helpful and inspiring.
Mark

ANNE -

Yup! Got it! Do you your numbers from when you did it before?

As for HVJ, yes, it is unfortunate. I will probably write him with some thoughts, whenever I can formulate them. One would be new name, would be new date.

As for the date, I think he is really compromised by having HVJ just a week after Timberman. And for the next two years, it would be the week after USAT Nationals and the Sprint Championships, which have a two-year deal with Burlington, I think.

But the date of that might change, too, as I imagine there are a lot of people who are upset that Timberman and the USAT stuff in Burlington are on the same weekend (unless T-man has changed its date -- which I think is unlikely).

HVJ might do well, or better, to look into September. With June it would be competing with Mooseman and Tupper Lake, in July it would be competing with Musselman (Maybe not much of a compete, though, as a bit more distance separates those two) and IMLP. Early August, maybe, but that's when Lake Dunlore is. But maybe he is thinking of eventually switching Lake Dunmore to the end of the month, which is where the new race (Branbury Classic) comes into the scene - to explore that date as a viable oly option.

Who knows?!?

STEVE -

Your "work-on" list is superb.......amd reminds me that I am good at thinking about this sort of stufff, but never too swift at committing it to paper and then executing a systematic execution of it. (I was never very goood at New Year's resolutions, either! )

I will comment on your specifics later, but for now will just say that your three broad targeted areas are great places through which to make deep inroads in your perfomance. Nicely identified; good navel-gazing!

MARK, ANNE again, STEVE again --

Eek! Have to run off now for more reno chores! The past couple of days have been goofy for several reasons, which is why I've kind of fallen behind. I HATE when this happens! (Both falling behind, and reno work!)

Miss you and FEEL for you. 

What the heck are "reno chores"???????  Sorry about your foot stuff.

I've been easing into my winter maintenance program.  Yesterday I did my most work so far - ran a little over 5 miles - then back to the pool for 1000 yds (my 1st swim in over 2 months).  I was exhausted after that and had to take a nap.  I am so out-of shape. 

Denise

DENISE -

Reno (renovation) chores put me in nightmarish terra incognita. Not only am I very indecisive, but I am abyssmal with tools -- no handyman skills at all, and scared s---less to make attempts. Lynn is only marginally more decisive than I am, and while having no tool-skills to speak of, she's more willing to give things a go. So, anyhow, we are working at a kitchen make-over, which includes flooring, as well as getting some hardwood flooring stripped and re-finished. But all of this involves color-coordiation.....which feeds right into the toothed and gaping maw of my indecison.

I am a very good cook, even though I don't have a good palate. And with color stuff, i realize I am weak with that homophone of palate - the pallette. I guess I'm not a very palatable/palletteable person, huh?

That was a great day yesterday -- 5 miles AND 1000 yards! You were entitled to a nappy, so I hope you embraced the pleasure!

So, it's been your off-season, and now it's into winter maintenance? Sounds like a plan! The new issue of Triathlete has a biggish article about off-season recovery, which is good for me as I wrestle with my foot woes. I figure each day without succumbing to the siren call of a run is the best thing for my beleagured feet......and the article kind of gives me permission to extend thsi for at least another 5 or 6 days. I THINK I can, I THINK I can, I THINK I can.....

And, trust me -- you're NOT as out-of-shape as you think you are. That's just one of the more pesky cortices of your brain, speaking loudly and ill-informedly. Pay it no mind. Have a good look at yourself in the mirror, think of what you accomplished this season, realize that it wasn't all that long ago......and you should see that you are in fabulous shape!

Carry on!

ANNE -

Thank you for your empathy/sympathy, and hopefully I will be back for longer, later. ("Later", as in a few hours.)

ANNE -

Well, i think it's safe to say that both of us anticipate a bi difference between yesterday's results and what will happen in seven weeks. Everything you say suggests that you held lots back, although I'll be quick to add that I do NOT think you were "sandbagging"! Tentative, yes. Protective, yes. But sandbagging? No way!

That's a very significant jump you made after the first ten minutes, and that you did it with impunity says a lot, I think. You made it to 175-180 and felt you could hold that for another five minutes -- superb!

W/kg.....interesting way to interpret those data. I wouldn't question this for one minute; I just need time to think about what it all means. But his explanation - lose weight or gain fitness - for how to improve the value suggest that it is basically a simple concept that I shouldn't strain to make more difficult than it is.

I remember a converstaion we had months ago in which in response to soemthing I said about working thr gears, you said that you had heard from some good source (can't remember who or where) that that is a key thing to do. I bring this up just because you mention that you weren't geashifting as much as the others, and I guess I'm wondering why you think this happened. Moreover, I wonder if you'd care to predict what kind of improvement that will make in the results in seven weeks. Fair bit? Quite a bunch? Whole lot? (My money is on Door Three! )

It will be very intreresting to see how your data sit in those for the general population and your own age/gender cohort group. When does he figure he will be able to generate that information? (I'm giddy with excitement already!)

Very cool about gaining a friend who CTs AND Bikrams! It's always nice to find a kindred soul, isn't it?

MARK -

No doubt at all -- you CAN do it. Especially given the timeline you're looking at, when it happens it should happen really well. To be sure!

I am NOT trying to hasten your stroll down this path, so please don't take the following this way. However, the difference between training for a HIM and and IM i shuge -- fsr, fsr greater than the "mere" double-the-distance equation. Even though this past season posed problems for you and training/racing, with each year as the girls get older you should have appreciably more time to train somewhat seriously. I guess all I'm saying is that if the local guys are moving kind of quickly towards a half-iron, it's possible that you could just aboard, too.

As for the iron, however, I think you have it bang-on about the timeline you are considering. Ironman can often be a very selfish pursuit, and it's clear to me that you are not at all interested in being that selfish and self-centered (I think there is a difference between these). I support your position 100%

Also, the idea of taking the time to build a base is never a mistake. For people who can forego Immediate Gratification, it yields many rewards further down the road; it just makes that first foray into those deeper distances that much more effortless. I wish (kind of ) that I had waited longer than I did before I did my first HIM (my 6th, 7th, and 8th tris were HIM. Oh, my!!).

However, IMLP, my first iron, was my 28th triathlon, in my 5th season, and was preceded by nine half-irons ----- and for me that seemed just about perfect. Could I have done it earlier in my "career"? Sure. Could I have done it better LATER in my career? Sure!!!

Cool stuff, Mark -- the stuff from which dreams are made!

STEVE ....again....much later -

That really and truly is a superb three-pronged plan. Is it fair to say that you've been seriously mulling this stuff for quite a while? Or, is it just that you are decisive as well as adept at self-assessment? Whichever, you've covered three very different bases.

Without going into detail with the first one, Recovery, I'll only say that as you describe your behaviors, you should benefit immensely from using Sunday as a rest day -- or at least a light day, or at least a day that isn't suppoesed to be another long anything (in your case, a run). Keeping those run miles more meaningful is paramount, and while there are gains to be made from the periodic (make that "sporadic") longride/longrun combo, they don't necessarily produce the same results as the periodic longride/longishrun brick.

And that brings me to thr third of your emphases, which is BRICKS! I am sure my one half-iron this year was compromised by not having done a couple of longer bricks. I mean, did I do ANY? Something along the lines of 150-minute ride and a 75-minute run, perhaps? I don't think so. And I know full well how good the likelihood would've been of two of those just helping that much more. Granted, i was more done-in by the heat and the run's topography (not to mention being too aggressive on the bike), but to go long, successfully, it just can't be done with smoke and mirrors; a couple or three longer bricks will help hugely.

As for the trainer bricks, well, try as I might, I too cannot generate the necessary intensity on a trainer. Period. That is one of the good things about a CompuTrainer -- when the resistance tightens, you're in it whether you like it or not. Of course, there are always the more brutal of Troy Jacobson's "Spinervals", where if you commit to hanging in for the full quota of suffering, you WILL get even more intensity (x~6) than all but the most brutal outdoor rides can provide. Cry mercy!

Finally, Nutrition. I have siad before that once I get to about 174, my racing improves noticeably. And at 170/171, the improvements are dramatic -- at least when compared to times I have raced at, say, 178. So that's me at 6'2", and so I guess that for you at 5'9" to aim for 155 would produce the ame degree of improved performance. The trick is to maintain good functional strength that is approproate for the height/weight, but I don't see 155 as being at all out of line for a 5'9" athlete.

The big thing that helped me gain a handle on my eating (although it is far from fool-proof) was going vegetarian in late '03. I kept with this pretty rigorously for abouit three years, at which time the colossal cooking required to keep variety in my eating just became too great. But, the prevailing lesson was that I COULD control what I ate, and over the years it has just become relatively easier for me to govern my intake whenever it seems important to do so (which is most of the time!)

The trick for me will be to hold things under control over the next 2-3 months, as my off-season stumbles along in fits and starts. I generally believe that my 170/171 level is "supressed" - that is, it reflects moths of fairly intensive training, as opposed to where my weight will naturally garvitate to if eating mostly "normal". I think I tend to gravitate to about 177/178......and I have learned that if I don't watch out, I will hit that and up to 180 by Jan or Feb. It shocked me a while ago to look at my '09 log and see that I was racing at 179 or so up until early August. Now, part of that was due to the separated shoulder that kept me from swimming for about five weeks, but still. That happened on June 13, and at that point i was at 180, so I had been slack with my eating all through the spring, it looks like! :-(

I'm sorry to have gone on so much about myself, it's just that I felt I ought to tell you that even though I say I know how to control waht I eat.......well, it sure isn't fool-proof (so sez this here Grade-A fool!) But for you, 155 is a terrific goal, and seeing as how you're not as big a fool as I am, I'm sure you'll reach it if you really want it!

Just a quick one before I hop in a bath.   Watts/kg is actually how CT recognizes and rates cyclists from the Untrained rider through Category 4, 3, 2, 1, Exceptional and World Class (international pro).    Those 2 other cyclists in my test on Tuesday who had to push harder overall watts were going slower than me.  Based on what CT publishes, my FT is at the bottom of Cat 4 (moderate/not adjusted for age) and my 5 minute w/kg of 3.50 (overall watts of 175-180) is bottom of Cat 3 (good).  

What I meant about the gears for the purpose of this test isn't what I meant about gearing properly for tackling hills.   Zach said we should be in a somewhat harder gear to start because as the test progressed we wouldn't be able to sustain the same wattage and  would have to keep shifting to an easier gear, eventually the easiest to sustain the watts.   Because I was able to sustain (actually increase) the watts over the course of the test w/o shifting to an easier gear, I know that I wasn't pushing hard enough.   Does that make sense?

My prediction on improvement over the 7 weeks will be at least 15 watts.   Apparently less experienced/trained/weaker cyclists see quite a jump in watts whereas someone like yourself and an elite rider don't see such a dramatic change, although there is change.  

Will probably get an e-mail on where I sit compared to others in a day or so.  Also asked him if he would let me know what my watts were on my V02 testing in June.  

Don't know if you have ever checked out Ironheart's website just to see what it is they do.   Zach also runs the U of G Health and Performance Centre and has clients in Ottawa as well.  

P.S.   Did a run today - so so - some good, some bad parts - will fill you in tomorrow. 

Hi Anne.

Sorry for the delayed response... my next race is today at 10:00. Just a 2-miler, but it's significant for me because it was the first race I ever did when I started doing this racing stuff last year. In fact it was the first 2 mile distance I ever ran, so I'm interested to see what my progress has been over the last year in terms of how fast I can run 2 miles. Last year's weather was windy and rainy but today is sunny, so I have that on my side.

Tracey

Oh Tracey - how exciting.  Your 1st race is always special.  Can't wait to see the difference a year makes.
Denise

TRACEY!

Howdiditgo, howdiditgo, howdiditgo???

And I'm sorry I missed "promoting" it, but it is down on my calenadar as tomorrow, and I was just getting on here to ask about the details. I havd the 2-miler for tomorrow, and the 5km for the 25th; am I at least batting .500?

Can hardly wait for the details!

Steve, you're 0 and 2. The 5k is on the 21st.

The 2 miler was good! I finished in 19:18, with a pace of 9:39 (my fastest pace by far in any race so far...) Last year I did it in 24:36 (pace of 12:18). I had forgotten how "off road" this race is. None of it is on paved road actually. It's mostly packed dirt but also a lot of sandy dirt, some areas of gravel, and leaves/pine cones. There's also two hops over railroad tracks. But it keeps it interesting!

If I can get 9:39 in a 2 miler, I'm thinking maybe I can get 10:00 for the 5k on the 21st, which I know from last year is a pretty flat and straight course. We shall see...!

Tracey

TRACEY!!!!

Your results continue to astound and exhilarate! I don't know which sounds better -- the 5:18 time improvement, or the 2:39/mile pace gain. Both of them are things to die for.....and what's great in your case is that you don't sound at all as if you "died" in any way, shape, or form. You've worked hard and steadily, to be sure, but you seem to be plowing through your training without too many ill effects at all. I dare say you are quite a ways from reaching your potential.....and I'm even wondering how long it's going to take for you to hit a plateau and stay there a while. I don't see anything on the horizon, anyhow!

As for my 0 and 2, i want you to tell those smarty-pants race directors down there to not keep switching the dates of theit Tracey-racs on me. Sheesh! A pox on their timing mats!!

Eight more days to rock that 5km. Can ya dig it???

Tracey,

9:39 - that is so impressive.  You have come so far.

Denise

Thanks Steve and Denise.

I did neglect to mention that I was pushing myself pretty hard, so I don't see any duplication of this pace coming any time soon! There were times during the race when, if it had been a longer distance, I would have slowed down for a few minutes to give myself a break. But knowing it was just 2 miles, I just plowed along as much as I could. But yes, I'm quite pleased with the improvement since last year, for sure. And most of my improvements have really come in the last 2 months or so when I began my "formal" 10k training plan. I have to attribute much of this gain to the fact that my neuroma seems to have been beaten into submission! I really don't think I could have done much more with my running efforts if I hadn't been lucky enough to get that problem taken care of.

Tracey

Congratulations on a great race Tracey!   If you can do that pace for 2 miles, it's just a matter of time before you will be doing the longer races just as fast.   And I doubt it will be too far in the coming.   I'm sure you can do for your next 5km.

You are SO right about how the neuroma (or any pain) can affect your running.   Glad you have beaten it into submission.      

I seem to have lost the neuroma and gained something else.   I have had the nueroma  off and on since I started running 5 years ago and probably should have had it looked into right away.   It is closely related to metatarsalgia which is what I think I have developed.   Seeing the physiotherapist on Tuesday for an evaluation and acupuncture.  I have heard and read that acupuncture is quite successful.   Done a bunch of reading on it and it looks like I am a text book case.   An alternative therapy besides the acupuncture is soaking foot in epsom salts with 3 essential oils - camphor, menthol and eucalpytus which I did after Friday's run and today's run.   My foot felt good and although I was sticking to a walk/run, my 250 meters runs were quite fast and felt great.  

I think I have finally learned that if you want to run you have to look after the feet.   We can neglect them for so long and then it bites us in the butt.     

Words NOT to welcome hearing from one's spousal unit first thing in the morning:

"I want to spend this morning on the kitchen cabinets."



Sigh.........

ANNE -

I will try to revisit my days with metarsalgia and see if I can remember how it affected me and what I did to work through it. I see my own sports doc tomorrow evening for my various recent foot glitches, so maybe we'll have some common ground of suffering to discuss!