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TRACEY -

That's the glory of the shorter stuff -- it allows you to push hard for that particular distance, all by way of conditioning your body and your confidence to push harder on longer stuff. I guess it's something like "progressive exertion"?

My goal the past two seasons was to work ghard to get as fast as possible at the oly distance, all by way of doing the same for half-iron. I mean, I had always pushed myself hard-ish, but knew I could do it to a greater degree. But to do that requires time spent pushing hard at psrints, and so on and so forth.

So, you pushing the pace for the full two miles was a pefect situation to attempt thta. And while you suspect that had it been a longer race you would've had to back off some, that was then and the next one you will know that you have the storehouse of strength for the two miles.

The intriguing question for you is: Would your mind SUGGEST you back off some, or would your body require it? In other words, what if it had been a 3-miler, and what if you had maintained that pace --- what do you think would've happened? Visualize a few scenarios, and get back to me later!

Weight, recovery and bricks, Kona...and Silverman No More?

Hey everyone.

Steve, thanks for the post.  Yep, probably a million things I need to work on, but I figure these are in my 80/20 rule. 

I think the mid-week brick off the trainer will be aided by this time away from the bike.  Toward the end of the season, I got really bored on the trainer and started watching Netflix to keep me entertained, which makes the time go faster, but the intensity drops for sure.

Hopefully some weekend rides will keep my cycling legs somewhat familiar until the spring when I can hopefully get back on the trainer and focus for an hour at some tougher intensities.  That and I'm going to invest in a cheap whiteboard to write session goals (speed, cadence, interval times, etc.) - I find going into the session with some specific plans helps keep the intensity up.  Otherwise, it's too easy to say, "well, that was good enough" and ease up.  Hopefully that intensity translates to some meaningful mid-week bricks. 

Weight wise - my friend pointed out, "yes but you don't have the same frame as Crowie, so you  can't expect to get down to 155".   Got me thinking about it, and might look into what factors affect goal weights.  Bone structure, etc.  I don't think I'm particularly big-boned, but at the same time, frame is everything.  Maybe 160 is more reasonable?  Something to study over the winter as I try to step away from the chocolate! 

Kona:  not that I have ANY illusions about Kona, bu for fun, I was looking at the IMAZ qualifiers from last year on the laptop.  If you take all the 40-44 men who qualified (top 11), and pulled from that group the slowest swim, bike and run split and added them together, your time wouldn't have placed you in the top 25.  And, most to were in the top 10% (45 racers) had at least one split that was inside the top 20 for that AG.  That really struck me - these folks who qualify have to be so well rounded...there is truly no room for error, at all.  Just really, really impressive. 

Lastly - Silverman.  A little bird told me that not only is the 70.3 championship going to be there in 2011, but that WTC is buying that whole event - the long course will also be M-Dot.  I may have gotten one of the last Silverman medals (albeit a half-distance medal) given out.  Nothing against WTC, but it makes me kind of sad - these really well-run independent races are growing fewer and farther between. 

STEVE -

That whiteboard idea is a good one, and I just might have to steal it from you (the idea, that is, not the whiteboard itself). I seem to be totally unable to discipline myself on the trainer the way I was in my being-coached days, although sporadically over the past few years I have made use of the workouts in the little indoor cycling binder published by VeloPress. Something to think about -- the trials and tribulations of an off-season cycling slacker!

As for weight, well, no harm will come from aiming at 160 and seeing where you might want to go from there. That is, is further weight loss worth further chocolate-deprivation? (my excuse for eating chocolate -- the antioxidants!)

I suspect there is a range of body types that can accommodate carrying 155 pounds, but that range may in fact not be as wide as I think it could be. Maybe I'll shoot for it, and see how it works for a 6'2" humanoid!

The data you pooled from IMAZ are very interesting, albeit not really surprising -- especially at one of the ultra-mega-competitive divisions; 40-44 comes RIGHT to mind! Yeah, there is absolutely no room for weak links in that crowd, whereas for the older age groups some modest weak links can still place high and qualify. But for every weak(er) link, there has to be significant compensation from the other two. Makes me wonder -- for 75+ or so, can there be TWO weak links??

Well, that is sad to think that Silverman might also sell its soul. I keep thinking what I've heard about Timberman and how it isn't the personal pet of RD Keith Jordan anymore. He used to have his fingerprints all over it, and there was nothing but the best to be had from that arrangement -- he was in charge of everything, and there were never any gaffes. Now, I hear tales of various problems and shortages here and there, and those seem to be from WTC getting in there and wanting to do things their way - kind of the "corporate" way. All of this is refelcted in his websites, which used to be brimming with enthusiasm and all sorts of unique twists on the overall event; now, however, each of his four (Timberman, Mooseman, Austin (formerly Longhorn) and Hermann Medical (formerly Lonestar) 70.3 websites are just the same, structurally, as any other 70.3 websites.

I really hope this is working for him. I suspect it is financially, but these were his babies and I'm sure he's losing a fair bit of his sense of connectedness with them. It kind of reminds me of when our kids went off to boarding school.....and suddenly the school assumes the role of "in loco parentis". Maybe that's how WTC functions in the world of Keith and his races.

Keith and I have a small history, in that my former coach was a good friend of his, and also that in the earlier days of his forum I was one of the very regular posters. So, along about '05 I got a phone call from him one evening, and he asked me to think about something and get back to him about it. The something was an offer he got from the Ironman people to have Timberman as part of the still-in-infancy series of races qualifying for Clearwater. (At the time, Keith's Mooseman and Timberman were both qualifiers for the USAT "halfmax" championship, which back then was held near Kansas City.) I thought about it fro a few days and called him back and said that I thought he should stick with the USAT group........and he went ahead and committed Timberamn to WTC. Then a few years later he did the same with Mooseman. And finally, last year, he added the two Texas ones (which didn't exist back in '05) to WTC, too. So much for my advice, eh?

For all of my dumping on WTC, I have to admit that they have handled Clearwater better than USAT has handled its own half-iron championship. For a year or two they had the turf all to themselves, as Clearwater wasn't around, but even though they had qualifying races, the event when it was near K.C. didn't draw crowdsa. Then it moved to just west of St.Louis for a couple of years, and this year was in Myrtle Beach. But trying to find info on the website was a real nuisance, and I still don't know why it took so long to come together. Then along came race week (last week of Sept, first few dats of Oct), and updates from the RD were sketchy and completely unhelpful. And on race day, the worst happened - no swim, and no run to replace it. There were "waves" to run from the water's edge to the bikes, and so the event became a 56-mile bike and a 13-mile run. Moreover, the run course itself was very convoluted, and lots of people got confused and either did too much or too little. Overall, it seemed to be a real blemish on USAT.

But races screw up. There was the huge muck-up at Miami 70.3, and the Myrtle Beach one above, and just this past weekend at Beach2Battleship. The big draw there is the hugely tide-assisted swim, but even though this year's date was chosen to supposedly happen during a swim-favorable tide, on race day it was just a slack tide. So, nobody had a faster-than-normal swim, and moreover it was water that was cold for all 2.4 miles so many iron vets had swims SLOWER than waht they normally do for that distance. OOPS! (So much for the best-laid plans of mice and men!!)

Okay, enough! (Don't you just hate it when some old geezer corrals you and waxes nostalgic? ) Well, you were a good guy to read all of the blather above....hello?....hello?.....is anyone there??

Interesting question you ask Steve. When we feel like we can't go any further/faster/harder, how much of that is our mind telling us that based on past experiences, versus our body truly reaching its limit? The mind can be a powerful thing and I think our bodies are capable of much more than we think.

Tracey

This is excactly the question asked and attempted to be answered in Matt FItzgerald's book " Brain Training for Runners."
His position is that limits are mainly in the brain and not physical. I found it an interesting book, and is what I plan to use as the basis of my run training.
Mark

Edited by TriD64 2010-11-16 4:35 PM

TRACEY -

Good questions in return!

I cannot tell you the number of times I have checked (that is, slowed it) my pace during a race......only to feel within a couple of hours - or less! - of finishing that I could've pushed harder, or at least maintained my prevailing pace. (Those two are really two sides of the same coin, I think.) Furthermore, I fully believe that nothing horrific would've happened; at semi-worst I would've had to slow at times, at worst-worst I would've had to walk. How awful is that, anyhow?

However, even at Make-A-Wish I didn't/couldn't push the pace I wanted and visualized, and that mindset setin and locked in at about the mile 2 point. The previous week at lake George I had been able to carry on exactly as I wanted, but at MAW I coul;dn't get my mind to agree to the plan? Or was it the body that wouldn't agree? Was one more dominant than the other? Was one the aider and abetter? Who knows!

I just posed that question for you to get you thinking about your limits AND abilities. I think the former is less than you think and the latter more, and in a way your agree with the body part when you state "....I think our bodies are capable of much more than we think".

So, another way to view that race and how you felt about "what if" had it been a three-miler is the following:
What if it was a 2.2-miler? How about 2.5? 2.75?
I think about this sort of thing often, sometimes even reversing it. Using MAW as an example, how would I have responded if the run was 6 rather than 6.2 miles? (Probably no difference )
But 5.5 miles? Say! I think I could've elevated my pace by a fair bit. And if so.....then where exactly was my "breaking point"? Merely in my head? (BAD brain!!!)

Again, you did a phenomenal job with the two-miler, and I hope you have spent the past few days riding that accomplishment for all of its considerable worth. As for NEXT THURSDAY'S (do I have it right -- the 25th?) 3.1-miler, we shall see what we shall see!








Edited by stevebradley 2010-11-16 9:11 PM

Anne:

I'm glad to hear that your neuroma seems to have subsided, but I admit I've actually never heard of metatarsalgia... I assume it's some kind of pain/arthritic condition of the metatarsal area? Doesn't sound like fun... I hope the acupuncture works out for you.

You're so right about needing to take care of the feet. They take such a beating, especially from running. I have high arches, wide feet and high insteps, so I've had my share of foot problems, even before I started running seriously. I'm hoping the issues don't get worse with age or wear. I used to work in an office every day and wore pointy, high-heeled shoes more than I should have. Now that I work from home I can wear my fuzzy slippers...

TRACEY again -

I just edited my earlier post this evening to you, amending "checked" in the first line to mean "slowed it down", as opposed to looking at it and seeing what it was. This is my way of saying that all too often in races I allow discretion to be the better part of valor!

Wetsuit anyone?

Just got an e-mail from Xtera for 65% off their Vortex 3 suits and Volt Sleeveless:

Vortex 3 full suit is $175 with the discount (MSRP is $400).  Pretty good deal, I think, if you're in the market. I get a lot of 50% discount offers from them, but this is the first time they've done 65% off. 

Go to:  http://www.xterrawetsuits.com/Thanksgiving/  and use the coupon code:  TURKEY.

Gobble, Gobble.

Steve:

The race is on Sunday the 21st.

But don't we (not necessarily you, or me, but people in general) always feel after the fact like we could have maybe pushed harder, done something different, etc, when in actuality we really did give it our all based on what we were feeling at the moment? Hmm...

TRACEY -

Oh...yeah...I was looking at the calendar, which like the chowderhead I am, I didn't change after you corrected me a week or so ago. DOH!

Well, you're right about operating based on the info we have at the time -- which apropos our recent conversation, is info telling us that we cannot push any harder at all. It's just that I'm always intrigued/annoyed by how quickly I see things differently post-race, and each time I resolve that I will do things differently next time, even if doing so causes me to implode.

To some extent I have made that mindset work for me, although it is not fail-safe -- Make-A-Wish is the most recent example tri-wise, and more recently still was the 10km about four weeks ago. Hindsight telss me that between kms 7 and 9 could've been done better....but at the time it was keeping within myself and saving somehting for the final km.

Maybe one day I'll be the master of those urges that the sky will fall unless I back off some, but as for now it's hit-and-miss, based on, as you say, the feelings at the time. (BAD feelings!!)

Sunday the 21st; this Sunday.
Sunday the 21st; this Sunday.
Sunday the 21st; THIS SUNDAY!

(I am not a chowderhead. I am not a chowderhead. I am not a chowderhead.)

(Okay, I am..........but I'm getting better!)

Hey Tracey,
Have a great race.  I think 9:55 would be good and then see if you can sprint at the end.
Denise

Hey all,

Some more news for you all...

I am scheduled for bilateral hernia repair on January 6th, 2011. Off work for 4 weeks. Can go back to all my normal activities ofter 6 weeks. So this more or less kills my idea that I could put in a serious effort to train for Welland HIM and Steelhead. Need to sit down with calendar and training plans to look over. Maybe I could find another HIM to accomplish in 2011.

Also in the new year I will be starting a new job with Ford. I am moving from engine manufacturing to vehicle assembly launch. Vehicle assembly is a whole new area for me. I am very much looking forward to this change. However, I will be traveling for work some. Once I am fully trained they sent people out on launch for 9 months or so and then home for a year, away for 9 months and home for a year. So this is just another challenge in my triathlon life. But overall the change in jobs is a good one for me.

Last weekend I picked up a pair of Nike Free Run shoes. Yet to run in them but chomping at the bit. Plan on getting to the gym over weekend or early next week prior to Thanksgiving.

Also a couple weeks ago REI had a sale on Kurt Kinetic trainers so I picked one up. Still in the box. But so are most things since I've moved!

Hope everyone's doing well!
Shaun

SHAUN -

Great to hear from you! I'm heading out in a few minutes, but will throw out a quick response now.

My two cents says that given the time off, Welland HIM might indeed be a no-go. Steelhead, however, is very doable within the time frame, which would have you back into stuff my late February. But then......

There are all the other plans, mostly the very exciting stuff about the new job. You're gonna be launched! Shot from the occupational cannon! Ka-BOOM! At the very least, I hope they send you at least one nifty place out of the two away-from-home stints. Flint and Saginaw and Fort Wayne don't count as nifty.

And good on the shoes and the trainer. I have loved my Kurt, and probably within the next few days it will be activated again. I heavne't been on it since April 9, so it needs some lovin' (As for my bike, period, I haven't been on it since Oct 26.....and before that Oct 11.....and before that Oct 5. I guess it's been my cycling off-season!

Stay in touch! And BIG congrats on the job shift; sounds like a plan!

So sad to hear.  I don't want to just jump on the WTC bashing wagon, but...OK I will.  When they take over the races, I don't think the races improve, I think they lose something.  I love the races that have character and that they are not involved in.  I really wish Timberman wasn't a WTC race (Keith should have listened to you Steve B!!), although I guess without that I wouldn't have gotten to see Chrissie Wellington and Andy Potts (pitter patter goes my heart). 

For example - at Timberman, they ran out of medals at the end.  Now, that wouldn't ruin my day - I didn't realize they were running low when I finished or I would have told them to give it to someone else....but there are people who finished that getting that medal meant the world to.   A guy I know via bloggyland finished 1 second under the cutoff, he sprinted to the end to make the cutoff - a HUGE victory for him.  He weighs 300+ lbs and had lost 80 lbs training for that race.  He didn't get a medal at the end.  He had a nail in his wall blank for 7 weeks waiting for it.  They gambled on the DNF's I think, it is the only explanation, because they know who many people were registered. 

He is now signed up for Rev3 Cedar Point IM now BTW (take that WTC), and still dropping weight. 

The funny thing is, I got sent an extra one in the mail, so now I have 2 of them.  I am giving one to mom for Christmas for supporting me at all of my races.   

It bothers me that they are now reaching into the Oly distances.  I hope they do not get Lobsterman - that would really be a sad thing I think. 

Wow, sorry about that.  I got going and couldn't stop!

HI!!

Mandy

Have a great race Tracey!

9:55?? Whoa, let's not get ahead of ourselves!!

I did a 2 mile run yesterday just to see how I'd do compared to the pace of 9:39 from the race last weekend, and I only managed 10:49. Hmmph!

Shaun:

Congratulations on your new job! Sounds like a great opportunity. And good luck with your surgery.

Tracey

Don't forget Tracey, that we generally never run as fast as we can when we are training on our own.   I think the adreniline from the race may help you get that extra push.   Not sure how you train when you run, but I always work on negative splitting.   It's easy to do and if you run the same routes, you can make a note of your own mile markers (either drive or ride your bike to get them).   Using your lap watch you can click it every mile and note your pace; for negative splitting you need to make sure you don't start out too fast which is what most of us do - we are fresh, the adreniline rush, etc.   It is really hard to hold back but it will make you a better runner.    Keep checking your pace every mile and try and increase it is just a few, tiny seconds each one.   Doing is gradually like this allows your body to become more accustomed to the breathing and be able to sustain.  You will find this helps you get stronger mentally and physically as the race progresses.  

Regardless of what your pace ends up being, I hope you have fun racing tomorrow!  

Thanks Steve.   I would LOVE another sleeveless wetsuit, but I am an odd shape and have had a hard time finding a suit to fit me, so am nervous about ordering something w/o trying out - besides that, Ken would probably freak if I bought another suit right now.     

Good luck on your surgery and congratulations on the new position.    Alot of things going on in your life, but I have found that is something that really doesn't change so you just have to do your best to work around all these challenges and don't let them be a reason for not staying active.    Do what you can, and have fun doing it.  

Enjoy riding your Kurt Kinetic.   Maybe your girlfriend can get one and you can watch some movies together while you ride.      

Ken and I have Nike Frees and like them alot although I don't run in them now.   Got them when we were learning Chi running.   They are best suited for Chi and running straight courses and not the greatest for power running.

Take care,  

Anne

Ha Ha - You just had a great 2 miler pace and we don't let you bask in the glory very long.  Another PR! Another PR!  We want another PR!  More than half the time I can't figure out why I had a really good/bad day - so many variables.  Just run a good race and have a good time - you know you're improving so you don't need a PR every time.
Denise

STEVEB,

I spent 10+minutes writing you a LONG post earlier and LOST it and my mind as well!!!!  Curious as to how your foot is and what the doc said.   I have had a good week.   Back to re-rewriting my long post later.   

Anne