GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 269)

STEVE,

My post to you with my running summary didn't work, so I will e-mail it to you.  OK?

ANNE -

Success! I got it, and have printed it for deeper perusal.

Was it really back in Sept that you did the Learn to Run?? PLEASE tellme it was later than that, as I hate to think that time is moving any faster than it normally seems to be!

Oops. I just realized that part of your commentary on that email didn't print (got lost on the right side), so I will go to the original email and fill in the blanks. Easy-peasy!

Back to your earlier post, and then I'll return.

I don't cook much anymore but I made my husband a birthday dinner tonight - cioppino and rice pudding (strange combo).

 







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ANNE again -

You animal, you! Kind of "Best in Show" for the w/kg category for the CT today, eh? And don't denigarte it by talking about "measley", as so much of performance does depend on w/kg, yes? I guess your wattage mifght be a problme if you were a big galoot like me, but you're not so it's all good --- and continually getting better, right?

I think we've been through this before, but bear with me and humor me and remind me again -- is the shin/tibialis problem mostly tightness without much pain? Or, is tightness an euphemism you're using for pain?

Regardless, as usual you are on this -- chiro tomorrow, well done! I may need to schedule my A.R.T. person if my hip continues to feel "sharp". This started this morning, and hasn't really gobne away. I'm hoping it's just from sleeping on it funny. I think I've had this before, and within a day or so it has gone away. But as this stage of my current run of nickel-and-dime lower-body woes, every little wonk and niggle gets me worried.

I agree with Harry overall. Well, mostly. I think there is still room for competitiveness, but it should be in the absence of aggressive time goals -- either for the run itself or the whole thing. Loose time goals are fine, of course, but you just don't want anything that is going to weigh on you throughout the training and the race itself. Even if they get met ---- it doesn't make all that weight feel any more comfortable.

The great thing about the Mussel course is that the first 2+ miles are tailor-made for getting your legs under you and falling into some semblance of a comfortable stride. It is just perfectly flat until you get into downtown, as opposed to HVM which almost immediately rolling/hilly, or Timberman, which begins with a long, albeit gradual upgrade. I can't think of a HIM that has a more user-friendly start to the run leg.

Finally, very well done on the second 1.5km segment today -- another negative split effort AND with the cherry on top in the form of a lower HR. Perfect!

I'm off now to fill in the blanks of the text part of your email. Bye for now!




Edited by stevebradley 2011-02-15 9:19 PM

DENISE -

That looks better than what we had tonoght -- a potato-leek soup I made a few days ago and some seed bread from True Loaf Bakery in Ottawa. (Actually, both were okay, but nothing special like your creations!) Now I have to go and figure out what the cioppino is!











Edited by stevebradley 2011-02-15 9:19 PM

SteveB,

No further explanation on the Kona slots. Makes perfect sense now. Didn't realize that's the way it went. Was thinking what the heck, finish first and the guy who finishes second goes for some reason due to lottery or whatever. That would be awfully torturous. Let's say going in you know 2 of the top 10 finisher will go to Kona per AG. Then its at random which ones go...Oie...

STEVE,

Had probably my best run in a while this morning.  

4km running in the plan for today.

1km walk w/u; 1 x 250 m in between km's. and 1x250 walk cool down to finish.

1st 1.5km - (10.27) 6.58 pace
2nd 1.5km - (10.09) 6.46 pace
3rd 1km - 6.54 pace

Saw that I was running too fast so tried to slow down the last km; found myself running 250 in 1.35 when it should be 1.45-1.50 right now.

Really want to get 4 weeks of consistent, slow base running before getting faster.

Ran the entire 4km with NO shin tightness; even when I walked 250 m recovery, there was no tightness doing the heel/toe walk.

Saw Adam for ART at 8:50 this morning; did some testing and prodding and assured me it is just the tibial muscle but did agree there is some imbalance and weakness; gave me some strength/stablility exercises for left foot.

One day at a time..........

ANNE -

One day at a time, perhaps ----- but those days seem to be building, don't they?!?

VERY nice finish with that 250, and if nothing else it should psychologically launch you for the next run. I'll bet you were wishing you were two-a-day run sessions, huh?

And even though your aim is foru weeks of consistencey before working on speed, it seems as if the speed is happening in spite of yourself. Pertty neat when that happens!!!

I'm off to the trainer for another 80-100' effort......and maybe I'll venture outside tomorrow when it should get to 9C or 10C. But if it's raining, I think I'll just wait for a week or two or three. Are you hoping to ride outside tomorrow?

Hey Anne - really happy for you that your running is going so well - I think you're on your way.

I swam 2200 yards at the pool today.  Pretty slow and easy, 2:50/100.  But it's nice to know I can do the distance.

Denise

DENISE -

And over-distance, too, by two hundred yards! I guess you're already making inroads into a future full iron assault, eh?

Thanks Denise.   I hope you're right.     

Nice swim yesterday!    Only one week to go before the 'offiical' program starts.      Are you getting excited?   I know I am.  

ANNE -

About that running plan.....

My sense is the same as yours, that it's fairly conservative (that isn't a word you used, but I think it reflects some of your comments). It will get you there, and it will do so with the least threat of injury -- which isn't necessarily a bad thing at all. But I agree with you that a second 18km would be highly desirable, and then the question becomes where to place it.

A possible way to do it would be to adjust weeks 13-16, where the current long runs are 14, 16, and 16 respectively. These follow a recovery week with the long run of 6km. Where this line I am typing right now sits, I have deleted three previous lines as I have thought up a few of the rather infinte possibilities by how the juggling could happen. I focus on that block because in a sense it seems "stagnant" -- weekly totals hardly vary -- and I just wonder if it the block can accommodate some change that results in a Week 15 long run of 18km. If so, I would then look at the Week 16 recovery week as maybe having one less run or something.

All that said, whatever long bike-run bricks you have -- keep 'em there! When you say that RW has you doing two 18kmers in Week 18 -- is that two in that week, or would the second of two be in Week 18, with the first elsewhere? And just to double-check -- the RW plan is for a straight half-marathon, yes?

As for the longest of the Fitz bricks, what are the distances? I haven't seen my Fitz book for a while, so I will ferret around for it and see what he says.

Have I said anything useful??

You read me right.      I do feel it is conservative, but am reluctant to alter on my own because that is ALWAYS what I have done from day 1 - be really aggressive - when I did try-a-tri's I'd pick a sprint plan; doing sprints, I'd pick any Oly plan,.....  and had lots of initial injuries from too much, too soon, too fast.    And my goal this season IS the injury free aspect and build for next year.  

But what you are suggesting isn't too radical.  

To answer your questions - the 2 18km RW runs are one in week 17 and one in week 18.  
The RW plan is for a straight 1/2 marathon.
The longest Fitz brick is in week 18 with a 2hr 15' bike followed by a 55' run. (which I don't want to lose)

SO, if I do make week 15 long run 18km, then I can still have the week 18 long brick.   I just wasn't sure about doing the 18km before the Guelph Oly, but I can plan it and change if necessary.   I don't think and additional 2km should pose a real problem. 

EVERYTHING you have said is useful.    Thank you so much.  

Heading to the trainer for a long ride, then a short 3km run.   Tomorrow will be my longest run since Oct/Nov. - 5km.   
Yesterday after a long swim session, ran 4km outside and the roads/walks were still a wet/mud mess so had to slow down and walk around/over, etc.   Took advantage of the slow pacing to up my longest running time of 10.37 (1.5km) to 15.00 minutes.   Did that twice.    Seem to be OK.  

Hope you have a great weekend.   It is crazy windy here!

ANNE -

That'll be a great brick for you -- don't lose it for love nor money!

Which Fitz level are you following? (Useful ---- if I can find the darn book!)

LET ME KNOW HOW TODAY'S LONG RUN WENT!!!!

I did 34' yesterday along the Rideau Canal. It was late morning, but already fairly warm, so I was in tri shorts and a longsleeve SkinCooler top, and my flimsy vest (almost qualifies as lingerie! ). I turned around at the first mamoth puddle and headed back the way I came and then onwards in that direction, but the puddles kept happening. I pussyfooted on the ice edges of a couple before remembering that my peroneal problem was likely the result of instability and that I shouldn't be messing around on ice, so.........what could I do? I then thought about the air temp and what I was wearing, and decided that the next puddle --- I would just run through it. And that's what I did, times about ten or so. I survived that okay, I guess; at least I have no demonstarble frostbite on my feet and toes!

Hips are okay, so far, about 27 hours post-run. Peroneal just peachy. I might be okay after all!

And, I FINALLY signed up for a race for this coming season -- Cayuga Lake Triathlon, Aug 7. This will affect what I do about Fronhofer the day before, but aside from that knotty problem I feel good about it. I have had CLT in my sights for several years, and more than once it has closed out on me before I could register. I looked last night and the Intermediate distance was at 274 out of a 300 cap, so after sleeping on it I decided to do it. One down, about 9-11 still to go!

Crazy windy here, too!

I just got Matt Fitzgerald's "Racing Weight" in the mail.  Skimmed the 1st couple of chapters.  He tells you how to estimate your ideal race weight.  I need a scale that measures body-fat.  I didn't know they existed but apparently they're widely available and pretty accurate.  Then he has a chart you use to estimate your best weight.  I think I already know mine but it would be nice to have validation.
Denise

ps - I looked ahead and it has the normal daily diets of some famous athletes.  Chrissie Wellington's evening snack is a small bar of chocolate.  Yippee.  I must have a 200 calorie sweet (cookie,candy,ice cream) every day - I guess I'm not alone.

The brick is there to stay!!!    Have amended my 20 week plan to have us doing an 18km long run in week 15 as you suggest.  

I actually combined 2 different Fitz levels - Level 4 for the running; and level 5 for the swim and bike, although we are currently biking AND swimming above that level.   I have been doing a gradual build in weekly volume/distance since November with the thought to 'start over' with the Fitz plan the 1st of March.   It will have us cutting back a fair bit in volume and we would start the build process all over again.   Not sure if this was a wise decision - thought it would be a nice bit of recovery for us.   

My other thought is that if we follow the workouts as prescribed, we should have success with the HIM, but if we go over the volume which I know we will with the bike and probably the swim, then that will just be a bonus.   I know how many weekly and monthly hours of training I can handle w/o risking burnout.      Currently, our biking volume and types of workouts corresponds to Ironman Level 4 training.  

YESTERDAY"S RUN COULD NOT HAVE BEEN A BETTER DAY FOR ME!        Really don't know what to make of it.  

Was going to run 2km, then 2 x 1.5km.  Ran the 1st 2km with a 250m walk recovery and then started to run what I thought would be 1.5km, BUT at 1.5 was feeling good and still feeling good at 2km, so kept on going.   Seemed to be in a real grovve.   If my limit hadn't been 5km, I could have easily carried on.

Run splits; 7.21; 7.24; 7.09, 7.15, 7.08

3rd consecutive run with NO shin tightness and haven't seen neuroma for a long time.    Hoping it continues.  

NICE run!  And happy that your body is behaving for you too!     I guess I'm too much of a girl (or not a real runner, ), because no way am I running through mucky puddles and getting my shoes dirty.   

WOW, Cayuga!     There is no way I am ever doing that race.   We scouted it out last summer.   Stayed at the park, and it was the worst experience in my entire life - the worst park EVER.  I don't know HOW they can call it a park.    But that isn't why I wouldn't do the race.   There was, what I thought was really UGLY steep, LONG, LONG hill at the very beginning of the race and that type of start kills me.   If I don't get a good w/u before tackling tough hills, it seems to do a number on my IT/hip flexor.   I'm hoping with my CT training this winter, that I have addressed that weakness.   The rest of the bike route looked pretty good though.   Ken really wants to do it.   
 
So what other races are you thinking about this year?   

ANNE -

Well, they weren't yucky and muddy --- just clear and cold water that had been ice a few hours before!

I rationalize those sorts of training rigors as potential prep for a real bad-condition day. I may have told you this story before, but in my first season with Erik he put me through a bunch of hard runs and bricks in the spring that just happened to be on a series of very frigid days. On each of these (and esp. the bricks) I would post back to him complaining that I had done the run on "stumps".

So, along came Columbia Triathlon in late May, and race morning was drizzly and raw. The walk from t-zone is kind of long, and that allowed plenty of time for bare feet to get cold. The water itself wasn't bad, but it continued drizzling during the bike and never really warmed up. 41km later when I dismounted I could hardly feel my feeet, and it stayed that way for close to two miles before I started to get some decent circulation down there. Now, I sure wasn't happy about that, but at least I kbnew that I was psychologically far beeter off than the bulk of the other racers who were from the mid-Atlantic and hadn't suffered in their clement training as I had in my frigid, stump-inducing training.

Anyhow, running through those puddels on Friday was just acclimating myself to some possibly similar race-day occurrence some day in the future!

Level 4/5 Fitz combo for you, and I REALLY want to find the bok now so I can see how your biking is matching up with the Level 4 IM plan. That certainly is something that will pay big dividends at Musselman!

Great run, Anne! You seem to be the once and future queen of the negative split, and if that continues so markedly you really should look at how you can modify it some to move the speed up earlier in each run. Got any plans towards that end?

I guess I feel okay about Cayuga; mostly okay, actually. I am aware of that hill, but that's normally the kind of thing that works really well for me -- a tough bike challenge right at the start. That's one of the fringe benefits of being a non-kicker and coming out of the water with fresh legs!

I also appreciate that they have a liberal refund policy. NOT that I hope to use it, just that it's there. With so many races using Active (the TicketMaster of racing ----- and I mean NOTHING positive in saying that), and with Active offering no refunds, it's just good to see races that understand the problems that athletes might encounter along the way that might prevent them from competing.

One race I was considering was a new one, Orange County Tri, near Newburgh, NY. But they are charging $175 for it, an oly, and when I wrote to express my concern with that whopper of a fee, the RD said it is in the mid-range of local races. Not excatly true! Yes, Westchester oly, about 75 south of him, is $185, and NYC Tri is about $225....but up north some there is Lake George at $95 and Fronhofer at $80 and North Country at $90.....and to the east is Litchfield at $90 and Mossman at $100.....and Cayuga is $90 and Cazenovia is $65. The weekend before him is West Point, a sprint at $120, so maybe he is using that as a price-gouging barometer, too. (And at that cost, I likely won't do West Point......) He was not overly nice with me, so I kind of hope his race has trouble getting people. (How petty and catty of me, eh?)

I will probably do Nations, and am excited about that. It might tie in with a convoluted drop-off of Lynn in western Virginia; thisnis still evolving. You should check the website for it, especially the course maps -- www.thenationstriathlon.com.

Computer is being screwy. I'll post now and return later.

DENISE -

Tanita makes a bunch of body-fat scales, i think, and these can be found in bigger pharmacies. I guess none of them can beat being submerged in water and whatever else is involved in that method, which I have never attempted.

If you choose dark chocolate for your bedtime* snack, you get all those good antioxidants. Win-win!!




* Or any other snack-time. I mean, can you ever get enough antioxidants??

ANNE -

Other than Cayuga and Nations, everything else is liberally in play! The permutations are endless, and I need a few more confirmings so that others and others and others fall into place.

I'm still dithering about USAT Nationals. The big prize, of course, is qualifying for Worlds, and while I am sure I can qualify, I'm even more sure that I won't go to New Zealand for them. It would be great if I could afford to and also be comfortable flying there and back, but I can't and can't, so won't. In that case.....who needs the headache? The RD is a turkey of sorts, the one who made that last-second decision last year to not get USAT sanctioning for the race I had signed up for in Burlington. The lure there was that it was likely to be the same course as for the Nationals in '11 and '12, but the decision not to get it sanctioned amazed me.

Beyond that, the Nationals were supposed to be on Saturday and the USAT Sprint Championships on Sunday, but now they are both on Saturday. I suspect that's because the RD initially thought he could get permits for both days and then learned he couldn't, and that kind of typifies how he operates.

Finally, the maps -- and even course descriptions -- aren't up on the USAT website yet! Every other race in the world has maps fully available, but not this one. So, anyhow, I',m questioning whether I should even bother. The plus to it is that Burlington is only about 3 hours from howm, so I could even go there once or twice to train on course. But I have this bad feeling about how it might go this coming year, and maybe I'll wait until '12 when it's in its second year in Burlington.

Too much info, eh? Sorry!!

I'm wondering about Syracuse 70.3 on Sept. 18.......but that just gets me agitated about half-irons in general. More likely is Beach2Battleship half-iron on Oct 31, where if I hurt myself the season is definitely over anyhow. As of a few days ago, there were a surprising number of spots stiil available. Maybe people got good and ticked at them last eyar for screwing up so dramatically with tides and the swim!

Very cool new race on the New Jersey shore on Sept 24 or so. It's an oly, ocean swim, and it's the Jersey Shore Triathlon, run by www.hfpracing.com.

And, ever and anon, thoughts about Mussel!

My 1/2 training program officially starts tomorrow.  Anne - your's starts Monday, doesn't it.  Whee - here we go.

Steve/Anne,
I have a question about swim workouts which I should have asked earlier.
This is my workout for tomorrow:
300 wu
200 - 8x25 drills/10" RI
500 - 5x100 moderate/5" RI
200 - 8x25 kicking only/15" RI
300 cd
It has 200 yds of kicking only.  It looks like 2 out of the 3 workouts each week include this kicking drill.  Fitz says this is to "develop more powerful and efficient kicks".. The thing is - I don't kick much when I swim.  And from what I've read elsewhere, that's ok if you're not an elite.  So - should I really be doing all these kicking drills?

Steve - I think it's amusing that I was registered for my entire season last month and you will probably be changing your mind daily for the rest of the year - haha.

Denise

DENISE -

Hardy-har-har.......you big meanie!

Well, you're probably correct, but I have to say that I have the courage of my lack of convictions. So there!

Overall, that's a nice swim workout. However, for the reasons you say, reduce the kicking set as you see fit. Well, maybe not. Keep 2-4 of the 25s in there, and see how they feel, and do the same for the other workouts that have a kick set. It may turn out that you actually sense that your kick is developing, and you may want to add back some of the jettsoned kick sets as the training progresses.

If you are looking for an alternative to the dropped kick25s, I've got just the thing for you! Go to my new mentor group, and towards the top of the current page is a post titled HIPS ARE CRITICAL. Read that, and then go down to my next couple of posts, one in which I transcribe comments sent to me by Louis Tharp; the history of this is in those posts. Then go to a post I made to three or four people, the third paragraph (I think) in which I briefly give some thought to how to go about working on Tharp's ideas. All of this began with a question on the previous page, but I'm not sure I said anything of more value there than what is one the current page.


I know I mentioned several ideas from Tharp's book, "Overachiever's Diary", to your group at about this time (well, Jan-Apr) last year, but I'm not sure I covered the "hips" one. If not, that was a BAD omission on my part, as among his many terrific insights, this is one of the most unique and possibly beneficial.

Nw, having said that, I have completely let it slide for a couple of years --- which is what makes me think that I neglected to mention it to you folk. Working on it yesterday felt great, kinda like meeting up with an old and dear f riend. Okay, that might be a bit floral, but honestly -- it was good to feel that hip drive again.

ANYHOW, read those post and then try it at your swim tomorrow. Let me know what you think!

DENISE again -

How is your daughter finding things in Madison these days? Has she gotten actively involved at all? The ghost of Robert LaFollette (sp?) must by spinning in his grave!

I was thinking of you earlier today and that tomorrow was the big kick-off!   I hope you enjoy the program.   I hear what you are saying about the kicking - I actually don't kick much either - even though I supposedly have a great kick.   But I do the kicking drills because they are helpful for more than just developing the kick.   Especially if you can wear flippers - really helps with body positioning and streamlining and when I use the flippers, I kick with both hands down by my sides and practice my breathing.  An added reward is getting a nice butt!      It's amazing how much stronger the legs are after using the flippers for the kicking drills and then swimming w/o them. 

Yes, I am loading my program on Monday.   
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Steve,

I read your "hip stuff.  Sounds like a great drill.  I'll probably incorporate that into the second part of my workout which is 8x25 drills - Fitz lets you choose your drills.  Then I'll keep the kick drills later in the workout and see how it goes.

My daughter's pretty much just been an observer to the activity in Madison.  However, she started a new part-time waitress job at a "bar & grill" right near the Capitol and Saturday was the busiest day they have EVER had.  I am so glad she chose Madison - her education has certainly been "well-rounded" - especially for a small-town northern Minnesota girl.

Thank you for being such a helpful mentor,
Denise