David Gillen's Group - FULL (Page 28)

Sunday, Dec 9th 2007.  Website here . 

I've done the half twice and the relay once.  It's pretty much the biggest Dallas running event of the year.  All the local running/triathlon clubs have training programs for this race and will have a presence there.  Having said that, it is expensive and quite crowded.  My wife has done this race a few times too, and she really doesn't like the crowds.  I don't mind them as much, and some people love the big atmosphere.

Personally, it's too early for me to commit to it.  I might try to go for the Sunmart 50K the day before this race.  We'll see.   

It's funny that you mentioned the Sunmart 50K becasue I just found it online today.  I believe that they also have a 50 mile race as well, right?  I really couldn't find out much about it but it looked interesting from what I could find.  Do you know anything about the trail or have an idea where I can find some detailed info? Both you and Ken have said the Dallas race is expensive, I've never done one in the states and so I figured $100 was normal for a marathon. 

I decided that I will entertain the idea of doing 2 marathons in October.  I originally registered for the Amsterdam marathon on 21 October but then all the local folks here said the race wasn't the greatest and they signed up for Cologne on the 07th of October.  I of course followed suit and so now I am signed up for both.  Obviously, I won't make the final call until after the marathon in Cologne, but if I feel OK, it may be good training for Sunmart. 

I'm not personally familiar with the the Sunmart course, but I've heard a little bit about it from friends. 12.5 mi loops of varied surfaces with some rough roots to watch out for. Fairly flat, I think. Overall a good course in a really nice state park where they hold a few ultras every year. Sunmart is the biggest and has close to 1000 runners between the 50K and 50mi. This is huge compared to most ultras. (The 50 miler I did in March had 45 people!) Because of this size, I've heard it's crowded for the first loop and you often have to wait for people b/c it's single track. This doesn't sound so good to me...Hmmm... Maybe I'll rethink it. We'll see. I've got to get through tri-season first.

You can read a few race reports from last year here . 

BTW, ~$100 is actually normal for a marathon, but it's still pricey!

Wow, 2 marathons in October sound like a lot. I've heard that many people say they recover fast from a 50K trail race than a marathon run on pavement. So be careful.

Timo,

I agree with David that you should be careful doing to mary's in one month.  It is recommend for most people to do no more than 4 a year and possibly 2.  Obviously, this is not an absolute or there would not be the "Marathon Maniacs" website were people run 2  in one weekend or even more in a short period of time.   I will also agree that your recover faster from trails than pavement.  I did a 50K last year and other than the fact that I had hurt my knee the week before and it was sore I felt pretty good after a few days of rest.  I doubt however I could have run a maraton a month later.

Ken

Thanks and I agree with both of you, I know it's a long shot that I will be able to do both and I'll just have to wait and see how I feel after the marathon in Cologne.  For now, it's back to training for the HIM!

Well David, I think I am screwed for hydration during Praireman.  I ran this morning at 5am and lost 3lbs + drank 20oz of water in 44min - That averages out to 91oz per hour if I would have kept going.  This is at 5am not 11am after the swim and bike in the heat.  Oh well, just need to start drinking more.  Also, I did stop and take a potty break after about 30 minutes but probably drank more than 20oz of liquids to make up for the difference. 

I know you said I could try my body to absorb more liquid so I guess I just need to start drinking more while I run.

I need to set my watch up to beep at intervals to remember to drink more often.

First of all, I'm glad you're taking hydration seriously and doing the sweat rate tests regularly.   It is so important. 

Secondly, you're not "screwed for hydration".  You just need to learn to drink more often and train your system to absorb it.  Here are my recommendations:

1. Realize that 2-3% (4-6 lbs for you) weight loss after a decent workout is normal and has minimal effect.  Over 3% is where you start to experience performance degradation.
   
2. Setting a timer on your watch to remind you to drink is a great idea and that is what I do.
   
3. Don't forget bike hydration.  Do your sweat tests for the bike too and strive to minimize your weight loss after each ride.   It is much easier to absorb fluids on the bike as your stomach is not jostling as much as on the run.  And your sweat rate will be higher on the run, and thus is really important that your starting your run with minimal to no dehydration. 
   
4. Be sure to get plenty of electrolytes (mainly sodium and potassium) as they actually help with absorption.
   
5. One good, lesser know tip, is to try to keep your stomach somewhat full, especially on the bike.  A fuller stomach empties quicker!   What I'm going to do (I tried this on Sat and it worked well), is to drink 8-10 oz of water (or Gatorade) in T1 or as soon as I get on the bike.   This will do 2 things: replenish your fluid loss from the swim and get your stomach somewhat full so it will empty quicker!
6. Stay hydrated throughout the day and be sure to start every training session well hydrated.
   
7. Just like with all your training, slowly build up your absorption training.  You can train your system to absorb more and at a faster rate but not overnight!
   

Thanks Dave. We didn't know the family, but are sad nonetheless.   FM is normally quite safe and calm and this murder-suicide has definitely shaken the community. 

I'm really just experimenting and trying to find what works best for me.  Although, I have shared my formulas with Ken and he is trying out his first "feed bottle" tonight!   Hope he doesn't die!!  

I'm excited for your MS150 this weekend, Pene.  You're going to have a blast and I bet you'll surprise yourself about how in shape you are.  You'll do great, but please do be careful.  Despite drunk and other careless drivers, I think your biggest concern will be the hundreds or thousands of other, less experienced cyclists.   Keep your fingers near the brakes when riding close to others, and just take it easy and you'll be fine.  I'm really anxious to hear how it goes.  Good luck.

David, 

I actually mixed the dry powder with the water and it is amazing how that stuff disolves.   I actually took a big sip of it since I know I should have extra left and it was not that bad tasting.  I did get a hint of salt but that is it.  Luckily for me my stomach can pretty much handle anything when I train.  I have been know to mix two different flavors of gatorade together or even grab a dr. pepper while running.  The only thing I really can't stand it the fluit or coffee flavored gu, just nasty, however I can get them down if that is all that is available.   My only goal with the feed bottle is getting enough calories at the cheapest possible cost compated to perpetuum/infinite and not collapes during my HIM.  I really don't care what it tastes like.

 I will let everyone know the outcome tomorrow.  Unfortunately from looking outside my window right now I might be on the trainer for a 1.75 hour ride (yuck!!).  Oh well, at least this way I can test my sweat rate.  Is this a fair way to do a sweat test or will the results be scewed?

A sweat rate test on a trainer obviously won't be the best and will produce results different from outdoors, but it won't hurt to measure it anyway if your scale is right there! 

Just wanted to let everyone know that I'm going out of town this weekend and might not be able to access a computer very frequently.  I leave early tomorrow AM for Toledo, Ohio for our yearly family reunion on my Dad's side.  He has 9 brothers and 2 sisters!  And thus, I have countless cousins.  We meet at my uncle's farm where he has a decent sized pond where I hope to get in a couple OWS's! Plus, Sarah (my wife) is coming for the first time so that will be exciting. 

Hope everyone has a fun and safe weekend, especially Pene at the MS150!  I'll be thinking about you.

-David