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2011-06-17 2:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED
DirkP - 2011-06-17 10:36 AM

I have my long run coming in just a little bit but it should have been under way now or almost complete.  My oldest daughter had her wisdom teeth removed this morning and I wanted to be there with her when she came out of it.  I have to say it has been quite entertaining to listen to her slurring and mumbling.  Of course I would be a poor, poor father if I didn't post ridiculous looking pics to facebook.  Right now my wife is getting the scrip of Vicodin filled and picking up a couple of  other things and then I will be leaving.

The run will end up being slower than I would like but the temp is supposed to be 82 degrees by the end of the run with 80% humidity.  It won't be killer but I am gonna be blown up after 16 miles.  I can't wait for my marathon training to hill full stride......in the middle of summer.........with 80 degree temps in the early morning.........and high humidity...........and 20 mile long runs..........and muscle soreness...........and...........oh screw it!  I'm reverting to couch potato!

 

Ahhh... what I wouldn't give for 80 degrees even with the humidity. It is 101 here right now but only about 50% humidity. Going to be 104 to 106 tomorrow. I have to run or ride real early if I want it to be "cool" out. Ran last night at 9pm and it was down to 97.

The local county courts just banned all fireworks for the fourth of July due to the record heat and drought. fun times Cool.

 

Potato - Pot-a-toe - HTFU!



2011-06-17 2:25 PM
in reply to: #3554631

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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

Yeah the heat that you are dealing with would be a little worse.  It is a "drier" heat but it's still stinkin hot!

I did make it through the 16 miles but it was pretty hard.  The first 4 miles and the last 4 miles were the worst.  I think it was because the heat seems to be a little worse in those areas because of the exposure to the sun and it is closer to the river and more humid.  There was also less wind in those areas too (not that there was much wind at all).  I used 32 oz. of water, 3 Clif Shot Bloks and 1 Gel while out and lost 4.5 lbs.

Tomorrow is a long ride (50 miles) and my first with a group.  I hope my legs hold up and I hope to re-hydrate enough.  The ride is much earlier so heat won't be such an issue.

Oh yeah.......Tomato   Ta-ma-toe



Edited by DirkP 2011-06-17 2:32 PM
2011-06-17 3:48 PM
in reply to: #3325249

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NH
Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

I feel for you guys in the heat. Until this week, I've been in full "how do I stay warm mode" on my morning rides.  It's finally above 50 when I head out now.

Tomorrow's weather looks close to ideal for my race - high 50s and maybe some showers, though humidity is supposed to be very high.  It should be a good one and my son is doing the kids version after I'm done.

2011-06-17 7:29 PM
in reply to: #3554812

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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

Warren, good luck tomorrow.  Hopefully the temps and humidity will hold at a comfortable level until you're done with your race.

I had to ditch my swim for today because I was trashed after my run.  I finally have taken enough fluids in to stop getting random cramps in the arches of my feet.  At one point a few minutes after I got home from my run I took in a little bit of sea salt, straight up.  I am sure I was a little bit dehydrated from yesterday's transition practice session before I went out today but I wouldn't have thought it would have been that much.  I know putting on the wetsuit was getting me saturated with sweat and since I don't know how to do anything just a little bit I was trying to nail some speeds for almost a half mile for the run portion. 

Oh well,  I don't figure on winning any metals next weekend, especially in the water.  I don't even figure to place in the top 15 in my AG.  I figure missing one swim isn't going to ruin my race.

2011-06-17 9:54 PM
in reply to: #3325249

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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

So the count down is on, 2 days until tri!   Leave in the morning to head to Toledo.  The exciting part is my wife talked me into staying at the mother-in-laws instead of hotel.  I think come sunday morning after sleeping on a 40 year old bed I will be wishing I put up a fight for the hotel room.  This fit into the "pick your battle" routine though.  Still have to be thankfull she puts up with me constently wanting to workout!

 Had a nice easy swim today to end the week, maybe take a SLOW ride around part of the course tomorrow, but want to save up for Sunday.  I am targeting 1hr 35m to finish. 

Hope everyone has a good weekend of racing!

Matt

2011-06-18 5:13 PM
in reply to: #3325249

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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

I got my first group ride in today and my longest ride of the year today.  We went 51 miles with about 15 riders, some of which were pretty fast.  They left the group after the sag stop and told everyone they would be trying to hit 22+ for those last 20 miles.  I knew I couldn't hang with them so I stayed back.  I actually was a little confused by who was going to stay in what group and I ended up out on my own for about 5-7 miles, caught another rider for another 5-7 and I dropped him with 5-7 left in the ride.

It was an interesting ride and time passed SOOOOOO much faster in a group.  I pulled for about 6-8 miles toward the front of the ride, maybe 8-10 miles in, and then dropped toward the back.  My legs are kind of blown right now but probably not from the physical exertion as much as dehydration and helping a friend move immediately after the ride.



2011-06-19 9:31 AM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

First half in the books.  I met all goals except one, missed the run by 3 min.  My race report is on my training log and posted.  I feel great and with the exception of a sore knee feel like I could do it again today, since my knee is sore and its raining really hard today I think it best to ride the couch.

2011-06-19 11:18 AM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

I had a great race yesterday.  Bettered last years times in all three sports, though the swim was definitely shorter this year.  The RD said the buoys moved last year and made it ~150 yards longer than it was supposed to be, and I think this year they set them up too short. Either that or I swam a 1:11 pace with no swim training!  Race report here.

2011-06-20 7:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=257473

Above is the link to my reace report, I think I filled it out correctly.  In short it states it was my 1st tri and I just about drowned in the middle of the lake.  My expectation of the swim was way off.  The gun went off and ran into the water and from there I could not breathe, it was a good time!  I'm not sure what happened, I attempted to control my pace but within 200m I was done.  Actually questioned what the hell I was doing on the lake.  Started wondering when the life guard was going to scoop me up and take me to shore.  Fortunately that never happened and I finished the swim.  All in all I had a great time and by the time the entire race was finished all I could talk about is what I needed to do to do better.

My goal was 1hr 35m and I finished in 1hr 46m.  I don't feel to bad about that.

If anyone has suggestions on how to improve my swim I am all ears!  I keep remind myself that I just started swimming at the beginning of March and I should not expect 1st place finishes.  But I also know I can do better.

Here's to improving for the next time!

 

2011-06-20 8:21 PM
in reply to: #3558963

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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

Sounds like everyone had some great races and great times.  Mine is coming in 5 days!!!!!  I am stoked!!!!!  It's a sprint too and that means "pain management" for me.  Balls to the walls (so to speak).  I just hope I can hang on for what I want to do.

Matt,  your RR looks good.  Check it in a couple of days to read comments others may put there for encouragement.  As far as your pace control on the swim, sometimes the adrenaline take hold at the start of the race and won't allow you to control things unless you really think about it before hand.  Depending on how serious you are about racing, a sprint can be about managing the pain of racing and a little less about pacing. (This is obviously my opinion and we'll see how that works out for me this coming weekend.)

Improvement on the swim?  I would definitely recommend getting an OWS prior to your races.  It doesn' really have to be a long swim but if the water is going to be rather cool and you don't have a wetsuit it can allow you to get some of the shock out of the way earlier.  Also do a WU in the water prior to the race if you can.  (I think you said you did that.)  Other than that, it's like you  said, more swimming during your training will help and a few extra OWS will help you too.

2011-06-21 8:37 AM
in reply to: #3325249

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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

Matt, that looks like a solid finish to your first tri given the trouble in the water.  It’s easy to forget how crazy the swim start can be, and for what it’s worth that was a long swim for sprint.

It terms of swimming, I have a few thoughts.

Of course more swimming is always a good thing, and more lake swimming in particular.  Swimming in a lake where the water is murky, you can’t see the bottom, there are no lane ropes, water is colder, there may be currents/waves, etc. is a LOT different than a pool.  I understand all the arguments for pool swimming and pool workouts and such, but I really believe OWS practice really helps in the actual tri swim, especially for us mortal swimmers.

At the race, since you’re not planning to get out of the water front of the pack, when the gun goes off just hang out and wait a few seconds for the chaos to get out of the way.  A 10 second or so delay at the start will likely give you some clear water and those 10 seconds aren’t going to ruin your race.  Then once you start swimming, concentrate on going really easy at first.  Just be smooth and breathe.  Don’t think about pacing or how fast you’re going or the rest of the race.  Just relax and breathe.  At some point you can pick up the pace, or not.



2011-06-21 11:21 AM
in reply to: #3558963

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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

Sorry about the swim.  I can certainly relate, because I've been there in the not-too-distant past.  I felt a little bit of that on Sunday during my Xterra. 

Obviously, you should swim more period...and in the open water specifically.  But you already got that good advice.

The other things that come to mind are tension and warmup.  Let me explain...I read your race report and it really does look like you did a decent warmup.  Especially the biking, followed by the running.  You don't say how much actual swim warm up you did, so I'm guessing it was trivial.  More swim warmup can help.  I find that if I do a good run warm-up I don't need swim warmup, I can just jump in and swim at speed.  But if I do a proper swim warmup without running (I sometimes do that especially when I'm nursing some running issue), then I need 15 minutes of swim.  About 300 meters.  This is necessary to open up your capillaries so that your heart's delivery of oxygen is maximized.

The other thing is relaxation.  I am guessing you suffer from the same problem I have when swimming and that is that I tense up and waste muscle energy.  A lot of the wasted energy is swim technique, sinking legs, lifting head to breath... but even when technique that is right, I find I am wasting energy by tension...where opposing muscles are fighting against each other.  But the biggest problem with tension I have is tensing my throat and diaphragm so that my breathing is choked off.  Even when I'm filling my lungs (and emptying them) I think I am diminishing the flow of blood through the pulmonary arteries with intercostal pressure.

So swim more, work on sighting and straight swimming...but every time you swim concentrate on relaxation.  Think of the water as a bed you are laying on, not something you are pushing against to stay afloat.

 

2011-06-21 11:42 AM
in reply to: #3325249

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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

Ok, race report #1.  I'm going to dump my description here rather than in the log section.

Saturday was a sprint with the following format: 300 yard pool swim, 11.7 mile ride, 5k run (although I've heard 2.9miles).

The race usually has a 16.7 mile ride, but road work necessitated a course change.  I am by far a better biker so this was a bad change for me.

Last year I was 4th or 5th place.  I was hoping for faster, maybe even potentially an overall win.  But with the shortened bike course that wasn't going to happen.  Also, last year's winner wasn't out of shape like I thought...when I beat him a few weeks ago I found out at the race Saturday that it was because he had a flat on the bike...Plus my friend Tommy decided to do this race and I can't beat him.

I was self-seeded in the swim pretty high.  #9.  I put myself higher than I really deserved to be, but I did that on purpose because most other people do too.  In the water I was quickly passed by the guy starting behind me, but that was an easy pass that didn't slow either of us down.  I then got passed by the next person at the wall.  I stopped at the wall to let her by, but she didn't take the pass gracefully and ended up slowing me down quite a few seconds while I waited for her to go.  The same thing happened when the 3rd and final guy passed me. 

Note about serpentine pool swims.  Here is the technique you should use.  If you are passing someone, you need to take whatever side of the lane they are leaving open.  Nothing else you can do.  But if you are the one being overtaken, or potentially being overtaken, take the side of the lane farthest from your next lane....meaning that if you are winding your way along the pool from left to right, you would stay on the left side of the lane on the way down, then on the right side of the lane on the way back.  What this does, is it leaves the side of the lane open that is nearest the next lane.  I say this, because 80+% of passes happen at the wall.  If you hit the wall right next to the rope you are about to swim under, the person overtaking you hits the wall way over from that same rope.  You can't both push off at the same time.  If you are on the furthest side, it's easier for the other person to push off first in to the next lane.  If not, they will wait for you to leave most of the time causing the trouble I had Saturday.

Ok, on to the bike.  Got a really fast transition.  got on the course and quickly began overtaking the other folks.  Since 3 passed me in the swim I would have exited the pool #12.  I caught at least 5 during the first half mile on the bike.  Caught at least one of them in transition too.    The beginning of the course has us snaking through neighborhoods out to the highway.  There were 7 turns right away.  Where the pavement looked good and was clean of sand (I scoped this out before the race), I made my turns without slowing or coming off the aerobars.  That's new for me.  I've always been cautious about the turns.  As an ex road racer, I still take them fast, just not in the aerobars until this race.  It was actually pretty easy and stable.  I will do more of this in the future.

The ride went well and I came off the bike 4th.  I had a little trouble getting my shoes on in T2.  That's often the case as I find my balance all messed up and I can't stand on one leg very well.  Almost sat down to get my 2nd shoe on.  During the run I immediately felt oxygen debt as I adjusted from bike mode (where I rode pretty easily actually) to run mode.  There's just something about the switch that takes time for my cardio system to handle.  Don't know any splits, but I was running respectably enough that I didn't get passed...and the 3 guys in front of me said afterwards I was running well and thought I could potentially catch them.  That's not going to happen with my friend Tommy usually running 6:00 miles off the bike...

Late in the run someone began to pull up to me, but he wasn't able to catch me before the finish.  He did beat me in the race though.  In the end I was 6th place with a couple of new faces at the race from years past making the competition deeper. 

I don't have splits yet, but my time was within the minute I had hoped for the final time which is good.

I was awarded the Master's Overall title.  My friend Tommy did take the overall victory, which makes me happy.

Race report #2 will come next...

2011-06-21 12:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

Awesome racing all around for the group this weekend!

The swim is a tough thing to figure out.  For me they NEVER start out the same way.  I have only done a handful of races now, but I don't think any of the swims have been the same.  I've had good ones, bad ones, okay ones and ones where I knew I could have gone harder.  You never know.  Practice, practice, practice!

Warren, you had an awesome race man!  Getting faster on that bike too, aren't you?  A solid swim and a solid run as well!  A friend of mine...Jeff Donatello won that race.  I was glad to see it.

Jeff, that's a very well executed race.  I still haven't done a pool swim, but it sounds confusing as hell.  Looking forward to RR#2!

2011-06-21 1:08 PM
in reply to: #3560168

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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED
jgerbodegrant - 2011-06-21 1:26 PM

Awesome racing all around for the group this weekend!

The swim is a tough thing to figure out.  For me they NEVER start out the same way.  I have only done a handful of races now, but I don't think any of the swims have been the same.  I've had good ones, bad ones, okay ones and ones where I knew I could have gone harder.  You never know.  Practice, practice, practice!

Warren, you had an awesome race man!  Getting faster on that bike too, aren't you?  A solid swim and a solid run as well!  A friend of mine...Jeff Donatello won that race.  I was glad to see it.

Jeff, that's a very well executed race.  I still haven't done a pool swim, but it sounds confusing as hell.  Looking forward to RR#2!

Thanks Jonathan.   Eastman was a load of fun again, and can’t wait to see you there next year.

I’m a little better in all 3 events this year, but not dramatically.  Your bike last year was still a minute and a half faster than mine this year!  That’s hauling.  And Donatello was just insane – how do you ride that course at 22.5+? And then put down a 20:xx run?  That’s just silly.

 

2011-06-21 2:18 PM
in reply to: #3560058

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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

Race report #2.  Lots of lessons to take from this one.

I felt pretty fresh after Saturday's race.  The race was less than an hour and on my current training load an hour of anything probably can't leave me too tired the next day. (maybe a 1 hour run race could).  Of course I took things easy Saturday afternoon.  Ate and drank a ton and pretty much just lounged around in air conditioning all day.

A very heavy storm front moved through Saturday afternoon...more on that in a minute.

Sunday morning all of my pre race routine was going fine.  Drove to the race site with my trusty support staff (my son Evan).  This was an Xterra triathlon.  Evan brought his mtn bike so he could play around.    After Saturday's storm front it was actually chilly running around in race clothes that morning.  I registered for the race and provided my iPad to the registration lady because they had no way to look up USAT membership info for the inevitable few who forgot their cards.

Then I heard over the loudspeaker that the water temperature that morning was 72 degrees.  First major mistake on my part.  The water temp had been running on the north side of 85 degrees.  This race has never been wetsuit legal.  I had left my wetsuit at home.  This dramatic drop in water temp was a result of the storm front that had come through the previous day and dropped a lot of rain.  Now what's important about this is that I'm a mediocre swimmer with a wetsuit on and a pretty poor swimmer without one on.  Strike #1.

My achilles was really hurting me in the aftermath of the race the day before so I was apprehensive about running off road, but in a race situation these things have a way of taking care of themselves so I was going to try and pull out if it was called for...but it meant that I was going to do a bike-based warmup without running.  That's OK if I bike then swim as a warmup, but it's not OK if I don't swim a warm-up (which I wasn't going to do at 72 degrees).  Strike #2, warmup not sufficient.

Another major storm front was on it's way in.  So they hurriedly got the race started promptly on time.  I knew I didn't want a fast start so when the start happened I let all of the front row go while I waded in to the water.  I started slow using a gentle 2-beat kick.  Well before the first buoy I was feeling gassed.  I had to settle down the pace and tolerate that uncomfortable feeling of oxygen debt.  (half mile swim).  After I rounded the last buoy and had about 300 yards left I finally felt like my warmup had completed and was able to push the swim pace without feeling discomfort.  Never once was I able to find a pair of feet to draft on.  Strike #3?  Drafting in open water is so beneficial it must always be a goal.

When I stood up to get out of the water I was dizzy.  Don't know why.  It used to happen every time I swam, until I joined the swim team and began swimming often.  Since then it hasn't happened until Sunday's race.  I stumbled my way out of the water and in to T1.  I decided I had to sit to get my cycling shoes on.  

I had already decided to try to take the bike ride easy.  All too often I push the mtn bike as hard as I can and find myself unable to run successfully (xterra runs are challenging). So I was going to focus on relaxed speed...staying smooth with my bike handling.  I have found on training rides that when I just plan to ride for skill and not for speed that I actually end up riding faster than when I try to go fast.  I was hoping for that.

This course is on the shores of a lake.  The soil in the area of sandy.  It usually holds up really well when wet.  Not this time.  Something was different about the soil this year.  I don't know why, but the previous day's rain had turned it in to a muddy mess.  I have to admit to being a neophyte mtn biker.  Even though I am a cat2 this year, I just can't pretend to be a cat 2 when it gets muddy.  people I can crush when it's dry will crush me when it's muddy.  I suck.  So I had already decided to ride the bike easy, but once I found how badly I was slipping around I decided to even stop racing it and take the whole thing like a workout.  I hadn't been on my mtn bike recently and felt very very rusty on top of it.

This course is very rocky.  But since it's not usually muddy, that's a little bit OK.  But the combination of mud and rocks just destroy me.  Within the first 2 miles I had crashed 5 times.  The rocks were like ice and I kept going down.  They don't make for a soft landing either.

One of the hazards of Xterra is that there are many people who are bad mtn bikers but good swimmers.  Crash number 1 came as I was climbing a rocky climb and I was overtaking 2 slower mtn bikers, including one with a bmx helmet (bad sign).  Mr. BMX had to hop off his bike right in front of me and the other guy was suddenly slowing up the hill, so I had to suddenly change my line up the climb and my wheel wouldn't grab and down I go on the rocks.  Hoping I didn't screw up my derailleur I climb back on and start to go.  Mr. BMX is again in my way and I have another immediate traction problem and oops... 

I finally get around him and the other slow guy takes me down the slow, dangerous, tight descent too slowly.  I'm being patient as I've decided not to even try to ride hard.  As I'm riding nice and slow and patient I have another crash on a root that was slick as ice.  Anyway, I notice my bike doesn't want to stay in gear, it keeps skipping off the cog.  But I keep on trucking until crash #5 where I feel like God doesn't want me racing anymore.  Actually by then I was throwing a tantrum like a little kid.  I didn't get back on my bike.  I didn't even trust my riding enough to ride out of the woods.  I began walking out.   As I break out of the woods near the start area my chain falls off the bike.  Hmmm... 

At least I was back under the pavilion when the sky fell.  I heard from the racers that their 2nd lap on the bike course was like riding in a stream.  The trails become conduits for the water as it runs down hill.  Apparently the water got many inches deep throughout many spots out there.  I'm kinda glad I wasn't doing that.

I learned that not only am I a lackluster swimmer...I already kinda knew that...but when it turns wet I'm a sucky mtn biker.   I'm really hating the off-road stuff this year.  I am really in awe of the good mtn bikers.  Pulling out of this race gave me an opportunity to see the leaders cruise by out on the course.  They blow me away.

So what lessons?  More swimming....Lots.  And lots of open water...And try to figure out why I can swim fast and far with a pull buoy but otherwise struggle.  My form is good, my legs are high...but I use some sort of 6 beat or 4-2 kick pattern typically.  I'm also fast in a wetsuit (relatively) where I don't kick.  So there's a clue there.  I'm going to continue to develop my 2 beat kick and see if I can crack that problem with longer swims.

Mtn biking....For the foreseeable future I will refuse to race mtn bikes on a wet course.  Simple.  You don't train in the mud because it destroys trails.  Then you race in the mud.  What really perplexes me is how some people can race in the mud without really going much slower than normal.  Plus it destroys your chain, it destroys your brake pads...

Always bring the wetsuit.  No matter how unlikely it is to be needed.

No mtn bike racing after a dry-spell.  Having not been on the bike in a while before this race is just as bad is taking a few months off from swimming then racing a tri.

Another interesting lesson on human nature.  After I'd pulled out and was sitting around in the pavilion talking to folks, I notice a guy get pulled back to the start with a broken derailleur. A couple of minutes later I see him with a wrench attempting to help himself to the $250 pedals on my bike.  Being an understated, friendly type of guy I walked up and said: "I see you plan to use my pedals".  He says "Yeah, do you mind"?  Well, the truth is I don't mind, as long as I'm asked first.  He needed pedals because he was loaned a bike by a friend to finish the race with, but it used the wrong kind of pedals.  He had tried to remove his but they were stuck.  My pedals couldn't be removed with the tools he had at his disposal so we went to work on his original bike with his pedals.  After about 10 minutes of struggling and trying my patented techniques we got the pedals moved over and off he went.

I've heard of people having their wheels taken off their bikes in transition, running shoes being taken...I've had $200 sunglasses stolen.  It seems as though some people take these races too seriously.  Their race is more important to them than other people are.  So if they need something in transition and can't find it they will simply take from someone else.  I know there are thieves that set out to take things, but I think in most cases it's someone who is just so desperate to finish their race well that they will do anything it takes.  Then  many times I'll bet they just take the stolen stuff on home because it would be too big a risk of being caught to try to return it afterwards.  Most of the time this just takes the form of people stepping on your gear or knocking your bike off the rack.

 



2011-06-21 5:57 PM
in reply to: #3325249

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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED
Holy crap....wow.  Sunday was not exactly what I would call a great race day....and honestly, I'm amazed how you handled that guy trying to take your pedals.  That's just amazing.  Who the heck does that?
2011-06-21 6:49 PM
in reply to: #3560975

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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

jgerbodegrant - 2011-06-21 6:57 PM Holy crap....wow.  Sunday was not exactly what I would call a great race day....and honestly, I'm amazed how you handled that guy trying to take your pedals.  That's just amazing.  Who the heck does that?

X a million on this!!!!!!!^^^^^^^ I am thinking if I saw someone doing that I might try to borrow his teeth for a while!

It sounds like a pretty horrible 2nd race in some senses but like you said there are always lessons to be learned.  Even from defeats and opposition.....That's where we learn our most important lessons!

The first race sounds pretty good.  I would hope to place 6th in my AG in any big race much less overall.

2011-06-21 8:19 PM
in reply to: #3561042

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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

DirkP - 2011-06-21 7:49 PM

jgerbodegrant - 2011-06-21 6:57 PM Holy crap....wow.  Sunday was not exactly what I would call a great race day....and honestly, I'm amazed how you handled that guy trying to take your pedals.  That's just amazing.  Who the heck does that?

X a million on this!!!!!!!^^^^^^^ I am thinking if I saw someone doing that I might try to borrow his teeth for a while!

It sounds like a pretty horrible 2nd race in some senses but like you said there are always lessons to be learned.  Even from defeats and opposition.....That's where we learn our most important lessons!

The first race sounds pretty good.  I would hope to place 6th in my AG in any big race much less overall.

Your biking and running in that first race were crazy Jeff, those are outstanding paces.  And that was quite a second race and it sounds like you made a great decision.  The whole Xterra type race seems like a different beast. 

I'm absolutely speechless on the pedal thing though.  I'm with Dirk on that - I think my hockey background would rear it's ugly head if I saw someone actually taking a wrench to my pedals!!!!

I got the go ahead to start run training again, and I took my Achilles out for a nice 30 minute run today.  Though I can tell the right one isn't the same as the left, it's absolutely not in any pain.  So far so good.

Edited by wbayek 2011-06-22 8:16 AM
2011-06-22 9:15 AM
in reply to: #3561136

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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

wbayek - 2011-06-21 9:19 PMI got the go ahead to start run training again, and I took my Achilles out for a nice 30 minute run today.  Though I can tell the right one isn't the same as the left, it's absolutely not in any pain.  So far so good.

That's good to hear.  I have some bad news regarding my damn plantar fascitis.  It's making a reappearance in my right foot.  Very slightly...but I know it's there.  Maybe from being on my feet in dress shoes all day Saturday, but I wore my orthodics...so I'm not sure that was it.  I've taken a break from running and biking since Saturday, only swam yesterday to see if I can make it dormant again.  Very frustrating.  I wanted to get some hard biking in this week because I'll be on vacation all next week without the bike at all.  Guess that's not going to happen.  I'm going to order the arch supports that go in my cycling shoes.  I still can't believe I paid $140 for cycling shoes and now have to buy arch supports to get them to fit...for another $50 or something.  This sport is a money pit!!  Okay.  rant over.  thanks.  I feel better.

2011-06-22 9:15 AM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

Active.com deal on Tyr.com

I thought I'd pass this along for everyone to look at.  Hard to pass up $120 worth of gear for $60. 

http://schwaggle.active.com/deal/1723/50-percent-off-on-all-items-at-tyrcom



2011-06-22 9:16 AM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED
bdj6020 - 2011-06-22 10:15 AM

Active.com deal on Tyr.com

I thought I'd pass this along for everyone to look at.  Hard to pass up $120 worth of gear for $60. 

http://schwaggle.active.com/deal/1723/50-percent-off-on-all-items-at-tyrcom

Nice!  Thanks dude!  I needed to buy our team tri shorts...which are conveniently TYR!  Appreciate that.

2011-06-22 10:22 AM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

Interesting vignette from Saturday's race.  I know a local triathlete named Emily.  She and her husband have been at a couple of my sprint triathlons already this year as well as many last year.  We had a discussion after a race at the end of May about her running.  She was lamenting the relative weakness of her run.  I found out that she's been running 3-4 miles 3 times per week.  I suggested to her that running needed to be done nearly every day.  I gave her my standard recommendation of running 6 days per week even if the newly added runs are as short as only 1 mile. 

This type of advice usually falls on deaf ears.  Even if the person believes it, they aren't usually willing to re-order their schedule to allow for it.  I was careful to let her know that it might take 5-6 weeks to notice a difference in her running.

Well, at this Saturday's race she told me afterwards that for the very first time ever that she had finished the run without any walking.  I later saw her post on facebook that she had also gotten a 5k PR in her run split.

This was less than 1 month after adding the additional runs.

I'm going to speculate that it's the same with all 3 sports.  I used to be a cyclist and that may be why I can ride very well off very little bike training....but I have noticed that I needed the 6 days of running to improve this year.  And I am thinking that my 3 day a week swim routine may be holding me back.  I may need to hit the pool 7 days a week for a while to get where I need to be.

Running every day may seem like too much for a novice triathlete.  But unless you are a runner moving in to triathlon, I think you need it.  But here's what I suggest you do to make it attainable...First, carve out time in your schedule for daily training.  If you can train for triathlon 3 times per week, you can train 6+ days per week too.  In fact, if you are like me you find that doing it every day makes you more likely to do it because having a consistent routine is easier than a constantly changing one.

Now if that daily routine consists solely of triathlon training or includes other things like weight training, racquet ball, basket-weaving it doesn't matter.  You can take those exercise blocks and insert just 1 mile of easy jog at the beginning or end.  Then with 10 minutes of time you are now a daily runner.

2011-06-22 12:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

Jeff,  I think there's a lot to be said for running frequency.  I should definitely be doing it.  I just don't work it into my schedule.  I definitely take responsibility for that.  I also shouldn't complain about my slow run times if I'm not willing to do what it takes to get faster.  I'm mostly worried about nagging injuries coming back if I boost up my frequency a bunch.

In response to your swimming issue....what are you averaging in your races?  I think it takes a lot of time to get to past the veritable wall that swimming seems to put up.  Although I could get faster swimming, I know I should be putting the time in on the bike and in the run where it will really take time off my personal clock.  I put a good number of hours in the second year to get good in the pool.  Two years ago I was averaging 1:50/100m and I was able to drop that down to 1:20 for my last race.   It made quite the difference, but I know it would take twice that amount of time to reduce my average another 15 seconds.  Sort of the law of diminishing returns.  If you want to win races, it's what you're going to have to do though.  Unless you are running 5:30's, you need a quick swim time to stay with the guys who are really fast on their feet.

2011-06-22 1:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Jeff Y's Group - CLOSED

jgerbodegrant - 2011-06-22 1:47 PM I put a good number of hours in the second year to get good in the pool.  Two years ago I was averaging 1:50/100m and I was able to drop that down to 1:20 for my last race.   It made quite the difference, but I know it would take twice that amount of time to reduce my average another 15 seconds.  Sort of the law of diminishing returns.  If you want to win races, it's what you're going to have to do though.  Unless you are running 5:30's, you need a quick swim time to stay with the guys who are really fast on their feet.

This is perfect timing for this discussion.  I’ve recently been giving a lot of time to this exact subject.

My swimming pace is nowhere near Jonanthan’s, but I can get into the front of the MOP in the swim on essentially no swimming.  For whatever reason, swimming seems like the event which got all my “natural” ability. 

I’m thinking since I’m within a minute and a half or two of the leaders in a sprint on the swim, it’s not worth spending a ton of my limited training time and $$$ whittling that down to 30-45 seconds by joining a club and swimming a ton.  Unless I can magically start nailing sub-20 5k's in race I'll never see a podium in the races I do, so that isn't my goal.

Given my relatively slow run and the fact that the bike is the largest time event and sets up the run, I’m really debating staying with minimal swimming (just lake swims when we’re up there on weekends) and really hammering the bike and run.

I’d like to get the biking to 4 or 5 days and at least 120 miles a week with plenty of that at high effort, and I absolutely buy into the running 6 days a week thing.  I think my Achilles problems may be from too much intensity before I had fully adapted to the extra running.  Like “they” say, increase volume or intensity, but not both.

Since I’ve never been a runner in a previous life, I’m going to try to stay with very little intensity and running 5-7 days/week for the remainder of this tri season and work on more speed running over the winter.  I figure my race running can’t get any worse, so I’d rather do it slowly and try to stay healthy.

Make sense?

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