TriGeeks - CLOSED (Page 3)

Roger,

What would you say is a good point to evaluate my training as far as where I am condition wise with regards to my goal for Augusta? My goal is 5:30 so Im wondering when, or if for that matter, I should do a long brick and when with race day being September 29th. Also, what do you think my distances should be for the brick? Im gonna leave the swim off to avoid doing a full on long race right in the middle of training. My swimming has really come around a bit I think. Pretty confident I can hit the 30 minute mark(really hoping to be sub 30 actually) as the race is a point to point down current. They say be prepared for a fast swim time. I just put my last 3 workouts in my log. Ive been so busy the last thing ive had time to do is log them. Going to start doing that consistently tough. Any speed drills for the pool you can recommend?

Edited by wes0711 2013-06-24 11:11 PM

Typically long bricks are utilized at the end of a build period with typically two build periods for long course tri. After your builds you should have a recovery week after trashing your legs for the last few weeks. There have been studies that have shown that brick workouts don't produce any better results in conditioning than non brick workouts and that some athletes actually do more harm than good for various reasons such as overreaching, over training, and injury. IMO this happens because most people don't realize that bricks are meant to be taken fairly easy, especially the run. They are only meant to get you used to the feel of running off the bike, not a true race simulation workout.
As far as length goes for a 70.3 there are many options as well as formats. Some people do a run off after every bike workout albeit a very short run, 1-3 miles. I've heard of a ladder type brick where you go short, mid, then long as your bike volume increases. Runoffs should be, IMO, 30-50% of your race run.
This is race week for me and I am currently in a taper. I've got an Oly on Sunday the 30th. Tomorrow is my last workout session which will be a 45-60 min bike at a RPE of 4/5, followed by a 2-3 mile run at RPE of 2/3. I may swim easy on Friday just to stay loose, then race day on Sunday.

Edited by mroger82 2013-06-26 7:15 PM

Hey Wes, I think you are absolutely right. I have not run for a week because me foot hurts and I am super bummed.

I was running in Nike Frees, then had a foot /gait evaluation and switched back to an old pair of shoes that I bought to run, but never really used. This pair also has inserts with arch support. I have run in them a couple of times now and had to take a week off....so I am not sure how to pick a new shoe. I have what was recommended!

I was planning to do a 10k on the 4th of July, but after the last 5 mi run I have had to hang up my shoes for a full week and if I press my thumb into the injured/sore area of my foot it still hurts :-( so I know the 10k is not a good idea.

I also read something interesting that helped to put things into perspective for me....aerobic fitness is achieved BEFORE the musculoskeletal system has time to develop. Clearly I have moved to fast.

On to new shoes I guess.

Hi Dace,

What shoes are you running in? What did you find out in your gait analysis? Overpronate, neutral, under? Nike frees, I believe, are good for our feet when we've got mileage in our legs/feet and not before. You are going from a traditional running shoe to a lighter weight, less drop(heel to toe) shoe(nike free) and that needs to happen gradually to avoid injury. I believe the shoes we've conditioned ourselves to wear, have effectively splinted our feet and that has resulted in weakened muscles, tendons, ligaments and probably bones. I've never been a huge advocate of the barefoot/minimalist running movement, BUT, a lot of it has started to make sense to me. I've incorporated a bit of minimalist training into my workouts but I am absolutely not advocating anyone do the same without a good bit of training beforehand and starting slowly! It's also not great for healing foot injuries. If you've got the time, check out the book "Born to Run". Interesting read(listened to it on a road trip). That's just my $.02!! Hope you get feeling better and back out soon!


Wes

Wes, I completely agree with what you have said and I am on the hunt for a new book, so I will add Born to Run to my list.

The evaluation of my gait was that my right ankle is a little too flexible and pronates, that is contributing to the PF. I got some new Nike Pegasus. Much more support than the Frees but not too much. I also got custom inserts. I just recently started running and always wore the Frees. I had been walking about 20m per week in them for a few months before running. I don't typically wear heels or high drop shoes, in fact I hate shoes, especially sneaker types. typically I wear cheap flip flops or just go barefoot. But I live on stone floors which I believe aggravated my foot, so I am trying to wear good shoes more often than not.

I went out for an easy 2.5 miler this morning. Could feel it in the back of my knees a bit, must be the new shoes. All in all it felt great to be back out there and now I am rolling my foot a cold water bottle. I am going to be really proactive in taking care of my foot.

Thanks for the, input, I appreciate it!

Greetings from Lawrence, Kansas

I am looking for a mentor to guide me into a training routine that will prepare me for the 2014 schedule. I am 55 this month. I've been training for something all of my life. I would like to focus on the Sprint triathlon type of events. My work schedule is constant, but different than most. It is a twelve hour day with a two hour drive round trip. I work every Sunday through Tuesday and every other Wednesday. Therefore, my workouts are going to be every other Wednesday and every Thursday through Saturday. Currently I am mountain biking, swimming and weight lifting. I usually combine two workouts every day. I omitted running after I had my right knee scoped. Running is the big question mark for me.

My current routine is:
Weights on every day off - one to one and a half hours
Mountain biking for speed at least two times a week - 39 minutes to 2 hours of riding (8 - 23 miles of either trail or gravel roads)
Swimming once a week, lately - 30 to 45 minutes of freestyle and breast stroke

A good coach to put me through the paces with a demanding routine is what I'm looking for. Thanks in advance for any recommendations.

Richard Kress

Edited by 2bazookas 2013-07-17 9:31 AM

Hi Roger & Group,

If you're still open then I'd like to sign up!

My Story - I'm a 30 year old from the UK and have signed up to compete in my first Sprint Tri in October. I've always said that I wanted to do a tri, but finally got round to signing up for one. My background is that I've always been in to sports and aside from the normal UK sports (Soccer & Rugby) I was a middle distance runner in school days, running 800m at county level (equivalent to state over there) and also cross country. Nowadays I have a reasonable level of fitness, mainly from the gym and the odd game of soccer but have started properly training in the last week towards the sprint. Just from reading the forum over the last week I've already learnt a hell of a lot and thought the idea of the mentor programmes was a great one to give you somewhere to bounce ideas off people and get some advice from (compared to me!) the experts.

Family Status - Married but no kids yet, instead the wife & I are trying to get in as many far flung vacations as we can before children, we're just back from hiking the Inca Trail and have just booked to climb Kilimanjaro in February.

Current Training - This is where I'm really hoping to get some advice. I've downloaded a couple of free training plans for beginners which I'm starting to use to structure my training but I've got a few constraints due to my work. I work away from home normally for 3 days a week (tues-thurs) where I'm pretty much constrained to using the gym. As a result I'm planning to try and put in most of my running work during those days as I also generally prefer training on the treadmill for running when building base fitness before heading outdoors for longer runs. Our gym has a nice 25m pool so I'm going to be looking to do 2 sessions a week there between Fri-Sun and then do 2 outdoor bike rides and maybe 1 in the gym. Apologies for the roundabout description - but that should leave me with 2 swims a week, 2-3 runs and 2-3 rides. Distance wise I'm going to be aiming for around 10-20km running and 40-50km cycling weekly (not quite at that distance yet). I was looking for advice on the best swim training as I've read a lot of differing advice on drills vs. endurance (the training plan I have has low distances of about 500-600m at this stage although states you could do up to double if comfortable which I am relatively).

This Year's Races - Just the one sprint triathlon of 400m pool, 21km bike and 5km run. I wanted to use this summer to train and get in to it and then look to move up to Olympic distance next year.

Weightloss - Not really an issue, although since I approached 30 I have started to put on a few pounds but nothing drastic.

As a note I'm that much of a tri beginner that I'm going bike shopping this weekend - again would welcome advice, but am currently planning to just get a decent road bike for now and have had the Specialized Allez Compact recommended. If I do keep up with it in to next year then I will look at a tri bike but from what I've read so far think that a road bike will be best at this stage.

Edited by Nick27 2013-07-17 4:01 PM

Hello Richard,
Glad to have you. Are you posting your training logs here on BT?

Hi Nick,
Welcome to the group. I wish I were shopping for a new bike, but the $$ just aren't there. Let us know what you have narrowed it down to. I would suggest a decent road bike to start, at least until you know that long course tri is for you. If you plan on staying in sprints and olys, I would definitely focus on a good road bike instead of a TT bike.

Nothing logged. I just registered today.

Thanks Roger, looks like I just sneaked in to the group as well so thanks for having me

For this bike, I'm going to pop in to my local shop tomorrow to have a look and ideally try a couple out. I'd had the Specialized Allez Compact 2013 recommended by a friend who has done a few tris but is still a relative novice. This is the link to the store - in the price range I'm wanting to go up to at this stage it's really the Specialized or Orbea bikes I'm looking at. If anyone has a recommendation on a bike from the range up to about £900 max I'd appreciate it:

http://www.rockandroadbikes.com/products.asp?l1=BIKE&l2=ROAD&l3=MEN...

The thing I'm not sure of is whether the jump from the £550 Allez Compact to something like the Allez Elite or Orbea Aqua Ttg would make much difference to a 'newbie'?

There is another shop relatively near that also has Felt bikes and in my price range look to have the F95 & F85.

I really am quite new to road race bikes, the only brand I'd really heard of before starting my research here was Specialized as I used to have one of their MTBs.

Thanks again.

Nick

So I bought my bike today, ended up with the Specialized Allez Sport - the guys in our local shop were really good, took me through a few options and let me take them out and I settled on the sport as a nice mid-range option for a first road bike.

Have already taken it out for a first ride and forgot how much I enjoyed riding outside, once I got used to it I was just riding with a big smile on my face!

The thing I think I need to work on is getting the most out of having the clip in shoes as I found myself mostly riding as I always have with all the power on the down stroke rather than the few times I seemed to get it when it felt much more like continuous full repetitions - is that how you are supposed to ride to be the most efficient?

So post some pictures of that bad boy. Everybody likes a little bike porn. Sorry everybody if I've been mostly MIA these past few weeks, it's been so very busy for me, but there is light here at the end of the tunnel. How's everybody doing? What is your training looking like? I've upped my mileage here of late as IMAZ is on the horizon. Tomorrow is going to be a 2000 yd swim and 6 mile temp run. I did a 3 1/2 hour ride on the trainer with my wife while watching stage 20 of the TdF the other day. It actually went by faster than I thought it was going to.

Edited by mroger82 2013-07-22 10:08 PM

Roger! You're back!!! Lol, just kidding. Man, I went through a slump training. I felt heavy, slow and out of shape. Then, BAM, one week later and I feel like I'm fitter than I was 3 weeks ago. I was getting a tad on the depressed side. I've recently started adding back in intervals on my runs and for the first time, I'm doing intervals on the bike. That seems to have made a huge difference. My swim is about the same however, I did my longest(2700) to date a week ago. Man, did that suck!!! Felt like it'd never end but man did I feel great when I got done! Anyway, in my 3rd build phase for Augusta and things seem to be going well. I think I've figured out that I'm probably not gonna make much gain in the way of swimming in such a short time but I can make up time on my bike and run by putting in the extra work there. What do ya think Rog? Welcome to the new members!!

Wes

http://www.bicycling.com/training-nutrition/training-fitness/perfec...

Good article explaining the stroke. I like to think of trying to scrape mid off the toe of my shoe as I come down from 12oclock to 4-6oclock. Will engage more muscles and therefore reduce farigue. It's a tough one to wrap your mind around for sure! Welcome to the group!!

Wes

You're probably right Wes, minimal gains in swimming at best. I'd concentrate on bike/run. BTW, that's why recovery weeks are built into training plans.
Almost everybody comes back stronger, faster, and with renewed spirit. Take some time off occasionally buddy. I came up lame a couple of days ago. Sharp pain in my left iliac crest. Strained some muscular insertion points along there so running is going to be on the back burner for a while. Put me in a bad mood today because I had a 12 mile run planned for this morning. Poor kids, I kind of took it out on them during the day. I have to keep telling myself that it's not all about me. They are very understanding though and I couldn't ask for better kids. I was going to go do a long bike instead because cycling doesn't seem to bother it, but my wife talked me out of it. She's a massage therapist and personal trainer as well as a USAT coach, and said that even though cycling doesn't bother it, the muscles are still working and will just cause more inflammation. I did manage to get to the pool though for a nice easy 2100 yard swim, then sat in the whirlpool for a bit with the jets on my hip flexors and glutes. Loosened up a little, but wifey is going to work on it more tonight, and I'll take some more NSAIDS and the day off tomorrow. Supposed to do a long bike Friday, we'll see.
How is everybody else doing?

Sorry I've been quiet for a few days as well, I live just outside London but am working in Edinburgh Tues- Thursday each week and its been a pretty busy one this week.



Thanks for that Wes, really interesting article - I'm heading out on the bike tomorrow evening so will give that a go. I've definitely been doing it wrong so far, trying to pull up on the upstroke and then starting the downstroke too late.

@Roger - Training's not going too badly thanks, bummer about your injury although having a live in massage therapist and PT must be nice I'll get a pic up of the bike this weekend, don't have a good one right now.

I think I've managed to get a decent weekly routine in that fits around being away with work, I'm doing the following:

Friday - Cycle
Saturday - Swim + Strength Training
Sunday - Cycle (longer)
Monday - Swim
Tuesday - Run
Wednesday - Rest Day
Thursday - Run

Although I said that I like running on the treadmill to build fitness, I'm finding that any time I try to go for a longer BE run I get bored and want to pick up the pace so next week I'm heading out round Edinburgh. Have any of you guys been to Edinburgh? Pretty hilly and a great looking city so that should keep things more interesting!

Sorry for all the newbie questions, but do you have any advice on strength training? I've got a session on Saturday at my new gym with a PT to put together a training plan for me (comes free with joining), but I want to focus that on strength training as I think I'll get better advice on here on the bike/run/swim training. My thoughts were that I should be focussing on core strength and some leg and arm/shoulder work - but are there any specific exercises that I should be looking for?

Thanks all!

Nick

p.s. Wes - are you sure you're not Greg Lemond in disguise? From the article you linked to - He uses the advice popularized by Greg LeMond: "Act like you're scraping mud off the bottom of your shoe."

Lol! I wish I was LeMond! My brother in law told me that several years ago and I guess it just stuck with me.(one of few things, I think!). As far as strength training goes, I don't think you can do too much core! A strong core will make you a better swimmer, cyclist and runner. Weak core leads to injuries. Really the only thing I do is a circuit routine once, maybe twice, a week. Everything really quick. High reps and the only rest I get is walking to the next machine. Typical Weight training doesn't do the endurance athlete much good. I guarantee Roger can give great insight into that, being a coach!

Mission accomplished ... Full Vineman in 12:49:50. Here is my RR:

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...

Thank you all for the tips .... Next 140.6 will be HITS Lake Havusu (Long Course).

Joseph Wu

Great job Joseph in finishing Vineman and reaching your goal time!

Totally agree with you on strength/core training. Everything starts with and utilizes the core muscles. I know there are many great core workouts out there. What are some of your favorite core training exercises? Planks, squats, crunches, bridges, etc. etc?? One thing I have learned is that while doing strengthening exercises is to do them idependently of each other. For example you shouldn't do double leg squats, but rather single leg squats. Reason being if you have an imbalance (which almost everybody does) and you do double leg squats, your stronger leg will always make up for the weaker leg and the imbalance will never change or may even become worse. Where as if you are working them independent of each other the weaker leg is getting the full effect of the exercise. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
My hip is much better, but still sore. Went for a 13.1 mile run Sunday and had little difficulty compared to last week. Also, for the first time in at least 2 years I ran with music. It made it so much easier and enjoyable. I used to hate running with music because it threw off my tempo/cadence and I really like concentrating on form and function during my runs. I guess I've got the form/function thing hard wired now and am able to do it without having to put too much thought into it. I still enjoy running without music, because it's a time for me when I think about the day' s, or even life's problems and puts things into perspective for me. Anyway, I've decided to run more with music. Some how I feel though it takes away from the experience and if I'm used to doing my longer runs without music, then race day shouldn't be a problem. Train the way you race I guess. What do you guys do? Music or no and why?
Roger.

Great work on the Vineman! I must saw I'm still slightly in awe of you guys doing full IMs - think I'm some way from that yet, just the thought of doing even 10km after that ride amazes me, let alone a marathon.

Thanks for the advice/confirmation on core strength training, I couldn't see it being a bad thing but always good to check In the past I've mainly just stuck to your regular press ups, leg lifts (balancing legs about 3-6 inches off the ground while lying down & holding for 30-60s) and other similar exercises - I'm looking to add in squats and planks, which I assume is the same as a bridge? I think I'll look to do these a couple of times a week as I can do them without weights or the gym and then do a quick circuit as you do Wes once a week on the resistance machines - what are people's thoughts to squats with added weights? Roger - I've definitely got a dominant right side so will take on the advice to do these one leg at a time.

I'm a big fan of running with music when training, always have ever since running as a teenager when running along. The times I don't is either when I've trained with a club (used to compete as a middle distance running for a track & field club) or during competition obviously. I've never found it to make a difference from training to competing as you have so much else going on during a race day that will take up your focus. Whereas when training it's a nice distraction that I find helps pass the time and as I know roughly how long the tracks are can use it for pacing or intervals e.g. run at a higher pace for one or two songs. Everyone has their own preferences but that's what works for me and in a similar way Roger, I've always been a runner so don't feel a massive need to focus on form as much, although saying that I am trying to at the minute since it's been a few years since I have run competitively and I'm sure I've picked up some bad habits.

My opinion is to keep whatever weight you are using light, especially if you are doing independent exercises such as single leg squats since you won't have the other leg to help out. Planks are a bit different than bridges. I've always known a bridge to be with you basically sitting on the floor with your feet flat and arms and hands behind you, then lifting your bum off the floor and pressing your belly button up until your torso is level and holding it for a whatever time you're comfortable. You can also make it a bit more difficult by lifting one leg off the floor while holding your position, then switching out legs. Wall squats are also good to do (sitting against the wall without a chair), also can be done one leg at a time. Planks and side planks of course, the leg lifts are also a good idea. I don't know if you have access to it, but I find the P90X Core workout to be really great. Maybe you can find a friend to make you a copy.

Ah ok, got you on the difference now between a plank and a bridge thanks. To be honest I've never been a big weights person anyway so I'll start out with just the different core exercises and single leg squats without and then if I get to the stage where I can do it relatively easily (which I imagine will be quite a while!) then I may look at adding light weights.

How are you getting on with the running with/without music?

Next week is my recovery week in the 3:1 process, how much do people normally wind back on these - do you guys have an extra rest day or just dial back on the length and intensity of your existing training?