grandhavenbill's group - FULL (Page 3)

I just signed up to volunteer up at IMLP this summer.  Now I'm going to jump through the walls of my office and go run 40 miles!!!  i can't freaking wait!

Happy Monday All!  Did everyone else struggle as much as I did trying to get back into the work/school/training routine this morning?  Woof...

In reply to Brad's and Jan's notes above re heart rates:

1) I STRONGLY encourage that you interact with each other.  I am by no means an expert with any of this, I can just share my experience and what has worked (or didn't....) for me.  We have plenty we can learn from each other!

2) Before delving into heart rates any deeper, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE BE CAREFUL with max heart rate (MHR).  It is a difficult number to measure accurately and it can be dangerous.  You are basically taking yourself to the physical limit with this and it is at that level where unknown heart irregularities can/will show up......In fact, the Sports Physiology department at Hope College in Holland (MI) requires that a physician be present when they measure it if you are over 40 years old (it may even be younger, but I'm 40 and know they would require it for me).

Now that my disclaimer is out of the way, there are at least a half dozen "mainstream" ways to establish heart rate zones without MHR.  The most accurate (that I know of) is to have your blood lactate measured to determine your lactate threshold (LT).  Check with your local bike shop or the physiology/sports department of a nearby college/university, they should be able to put you in touch with someone who is doing this.  It generally costs around $50~75 and will take about an hour, including warm-up, testing, and review of the results.  It is just a few finger pricks for those who are worried about needles.

There are also a number of formulas out there that will estimate your HR zones based on age/activity level.  Of course, these are not as accurate, but they are generally pretty darn close and a great place to start.  Gordo Byrn (a regular contributor here and world class triathlete) is recommending the following to his mentor group:

Easy = less than 160 minus "Your Age"
Steady = around 170 minus "Your Age"
Moderately-Hard = around 180 minus "Your Age"
Threshold = don't use any to start
VO2 = don't use any to start

The "moderately hard" number is basically the top of your Z2 aerobic zone.  It varies from athlete to athlete, but your run zones are typically 7-ish beats higher than your bike zones.

I can give you some links to additional sources if you are interested, just let me know.

Hi Bill,

I don't have much experience biking.  I do not even have a bike as of now.  I have been training on an indoor spinning bike.  I know this isn't ideal but do you think it will suit for the next month or so until I pick up a bike? Also, I'm at a gym and I'm wondering if its ok to go swim - stationary bike - to treadmill (or indoor track)?  I'm not doing this yet but plan on eventually.  I want to run outside and am going to try to but some days in Albany its just very very cold and even icy/snowing.  What is your advice? And if the spin bike is ok, are there any recommendations you have for time/ pace, etc. ? Thanks alot!

Bill et al...good morning!

Yes...for some reason I completely am struggling.  I am following what I think to be a good training program and getting through all of my work outs.  Have good, solid gear.  Definitely enjoying the training process and getting "addicted."  Having said that I am completely tired from the moment I get up until the moment I go to bed at night.  Am I doing to much?  Not getting enough sleep?  Not sure if it's just getting used to the training program.

Thoughts?  Please look at my training log...

Drew

Morning Drew:  I wish I had more to add other than I took a day off a while back because I was starting to feel like you are now.  It was an incredible help.  I'm sure Bill will have much more meaningful words of wisdom. 

I do have a question for you that may sound dumb.  How are you measuring your swim distance?   The accuarcy you are getting is pretty cool.  

Along the same line does anyone else have trouble keeping lap count in the pool?  Any suggestions other than purchasing an expensive lap counter.

Thanks  John

I am measuring in lap count and by what I'm seeing on the timer posted on the wall.  Not sure how accurate it is...but being the OCD person I am I'll take what I can get.

Maybe I need to select a day during the week as my "day off" day.

Drew

Hi JeanMarie,

A spin bike is certainly better than not riding at all.  Just focus on technique/cadence and avoid the all-out redline sessions that most spin instructors love to teach.  There is a time/place for those anaerobic workouts, but you do NOT need to be doing that right now.  Reference my diatribe on heart rate zones above.  As far as time goes, 30~45 minutes per session is plenty as you start to build a cycling base.  Basically, we want to build up to your training plan so that you hit week 1 "running" and have no problem completing the times/distances.

Although I'd much rather run outside personally, lots of folks stick to the "dreadmill" this time of year.  With the right clothes, winter running is no problem.  That said, I won't run outside if it is icy. 

Thanks Bill,

  I am looking into getting a bike ASAP and am going to be running outside more - even if its at the track.  One more question, I want to start a sprint-training plan soon, but it is only 12 weeks or so (I think I am going to change from the 16 week 3x balanced over to another one I found online).  I know that the plan prepares you for race day - but what if you want to do 2 races within 4 weeks of each other?  In other words, what do you do after the plan ends but you are still racing in a few weeks?  Are two sprint races in 1/1.5 months not recommended?  I am just wondering if its ok that I start the plan even though the race might not immediately follow afterwards.  Please let me know what you think! thank you for all of your help and I hope the whole group is doing well with training and getting in shape! - JeanMarie

It is great to hear from you all and remember that I am not the only one on this crazy quest. I am just learning to navigate the site as well as the workout sessions so pardon my sporadic posts.

Brad- I would love to see you at the BC Indoor Tri.  It looks like we are right in the same area.  I looked at your log and it I realize that I need to kick up my run distance a little. Up until now, I have peaked at the 3.5 miles due to the time constraints of my schedule. Maybe I will head out to John Daley partk and do the loops there. BTW, how did you link the other forum members for quick reference on your page?

Drew, I feel your pain, literally. Like the others have said, it just seems to take your body some time to get used to the new level of activity you are putting it through. I still have days when I nod off throughout the day and I have determined that it comes down to nutrition. I now keep trail mix in my desk for just such emergencies. A small handfull and I stay on track without falling off the wagon.

I ussually use the lap counting as a focus in the pool. I break it down into 100m blocks and glance at the clock to track my pace. Far from scientific but it keeps me going and somewhat on track.

Just wait until videos from those first couple of workouts show up on youtube and are flagged all over the main part of the forum!  ;-)

Hang in there, I promise those workouts will get easier.  Be careful though, those master's folks are famous for punishing the tri guys....

Hey Drew,

Like Jan, my initial thought is this might be nutrition/hydration related.  Give me a quick snapshot of what/when you are eating during the day, and the time(s) you are working out.  Also, what/how much are you drinking during the day?

Are you sleeping the same number of hours now vs. pre-training?  How about your quality of sleep (i.e. are you up tossing/turning all night long)?

I am a big proponent of taking a complete rest day every week.  I know a few who go 10 to 14 days (or more....) without a break, but I find that I o much better mentally and physically with a down day every 7.  Listen to your body, if you need a break, by all means take one.

Based on your logs, looks like a bunch of runs/bikes in a row without swimming?  Is this what your training plan calls for?

Bill

JeanMarie,

4 weeks between sprints should be no problem at all.  I've raced back-to-back weekends and have teammates who occasionally race Saturday/Sunday back-to-back races and typically do better on their Sunday race!

The training plans are structured so that you will reach peak fitness/performance on race day, so I would  recommend following the plan accordingly.  Prior to Week 1, your focus should be technique and building an aerobic base.  There are off-season plans out there if you'd like some structure, or you can do the first 3-4 weeks of your plan and then repeat them when you hit 16 weeks out.

As for training between races, I'd recommend a day or two off following the race and then jumping back into the plan at "X" weeks out.  Make sense?

AWESOME!  Ironman is an absolutely incredible experience, whether you are racing, volunteering, or just spectating.  You are going to LOVE it and learn a ton.

Volunteering at any race is a great way to learn and help out.  As you will learn, a great race is made my great volunteers.

Well, the unwritten rule is that you can only count the laps that you are absolutely sure that you swam.  That way, you are always sure your swim workouts are never short!  ;-)

A search on the main forum will reveal a number of lap counting methods, from those fancy "touch" counters to moving pennies around on the edge of the deck.  I, too, use counting laps as a focus and will typically break my workout down into easily countable chunks of 50's, 100's, etc. depending on your workout.  And, yes, I have lost track plenty of times.....You will soon be able to estimate very closely how far you've swum just based on time.

On the topic of swim training, "swim golf" is a great way to monitor progress:  swim a 50 and add the number of total strokes to the total time.  Of course, lower is better....

Hey Brad:  I just added mine to my profile and it shows.  I looked at your profile and its not there so I'm thinking this may solve it.

John

I never used a HRM for my marathon training but broke down and bought one for this tri training.  I took it for a test drive today. I went for a 3 mile jaunt keeping well above 8:30 miles.  I couldnt get below 150 without almost having to walk.  At 37 this is well above the range(s) noted above.  So here's the stupid question.  As I become more fit will this range increase which is why I'm seeing these higher numbers?

Thanks  John

 edit...i'm sure i'll find this in research but still wanted to here from those w/ HRM experiece.  thanks

Absolutely, as your aerobic fitness increases, you will get faster at a given heart rate.  What was your RPE during that run?  As noted above, the 180-age is a guideline that works for MOST people.  It is possible that you could be one of those folks with a higher than average HR.....My training partner is a classic example of this.  At the same pace, his HR is always 20-30 beats higher than mine.

That said, those Z1/Z2 runs are often agonizingly slow for beginners or folks who have been off for a lengthy period of time.  I promise, it will get better!

My RPE was a 2, bottom 3 at most.  So your hear rate never changes, you just get faster in the HRrange? Sorry I meant HR range in the question.  I've been running since July so its not like I'm fresh off the couch. 

I'll try a "normal" run on thursday and see what my numbers are then.  

 thanks!!