Bill's Aye! Aye! Tri Crew - FULL - this ship has left the dock! (Page 3)

Bill,

Glad to be aboard.  Just an update.  I moved my Half Ironman back a month to August.  (Steelhead) Trying to avoid the heat in Indiana in July.  That will give me a chance to get some other shorter distance tri's in.   

Did my first Spin class this morning.  Very hard.  For now do you think that 2 spin classes a week and 3 times in the pool will be good until the 20week training plan starts?  I keep hearing the more pool time you get the better, but I have to be realistic on the time constraint.  Also, starting the half marathon training plan in 2 weeks.  

CH

Pierre, good job!  I've learned something today.  So I too set my Training Peaks workouts to public.  www.trainingpeaks.com/atlbill  But ARRGH, I think it only shows my workouts going forward.  I was so looking forward to bragging about how good I was at working out through the holidays.  Vanity can be cruel.  So 'what have you done for me lately?'  Not to worry, I'll just have to keep it going.  Did anyone else catch that the guy from the San Francisco bay area mentioned the iphone "app for that"?  Love it.

Jan, yes, get the heart questions answered before pushing it.  -------------Ok, I need an acronym here for "high frequency, low intensity, zone 2 runs", let's try HFLIZ2R.  HFLIZ2R sounds like a cocktail. --------- Jan, as stated before, 'tis the season for HFLIZ2R.  This is a good way to build the base - leg muscle fitness and cardio fitness.  And in your case especially.  Regarding "the math", there are several methods for determining one's "zone 2" aerobic heart rate.  The "220 minus your age = max heart rate" is no good, heart rates vary widely.  Here's a review of "the math" http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=405    Lab testing is precise but expensive.  Field testing is free and "close enough".  But field tests for anaerobic threshold are "go as hard as you can for 30 minutes, and use the average heart rate of the last 20 mintues".  Which I do not suggest until you're cleared by the doctor.

150 is probably too high, 131 may be right.  At 131 are you walking or jogging?  A field test for aerobic threshold is: walk or jog at a steady pace for 3 miles, slow enough that you're not "panting", what would be your average your heart rate?  This will be close to the right number.  It should feel "too easy" so you question if there is any benefit.  This approach takes time and many workouts = everyday is ok, because it's at such an easy pace.  Don't worry we'll go harder in a month or two.  For now, go easy and go often.  HFLIZ2R!

Will you be going back to the doc to discuss your sonogram?  Does his office offer a "stress test"?  Tell him what your intentions are, including that you're going to gradually build your fitness for 6 months before your race, and see what his concerns are.

Tony, yes!  ha, ha "learning to run slowly" is weird, but you're on the right track.  Yes, this is normal.  Regarding being tough to go so slow, you might enjoy my friend Craig's race report - he had a great race that day. I know your goal is an Oly, and this is from a full IM, but the principle is the same.  Caution, it's a long tale, see his comments on heart rate in the bike and run legs.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=273219

CH, you asked about 2 spin classes, 3 times in the pool, and mentioned "the time constraint".  My anser is "yes".  But #1 is "the time constraint".  Workout as often as you can, and still keep your job, and still enjoy your kids, and keep your wife happy.  'Cause when Mama's not happy, ain't no body happy.'  Seriously, 3 swims you're building your technique and endurance, 2 spin classes you're building your smooth pedal stroke, working your quads, and building aerobic fitness.  This is plenty.  When you start running more, you may have to cut back to 2 swims.  

Thanks y'all for 'getting into this'.  Your enthusiasm is inspiring and contagious.  Keep charging!

Hy all!

I´ve used heart monitor for a year now while doing "slow running" for my marathon training. It really helped me to get my Avg heart rate down (at 10k run from 155 to 140) and helped to study my body on long runs. Ok, it took 2 months to see the progress, but it was worth it, and progress is still going on in slower pace. And keeping a training log is really good for being motivated.

Viljar

Sandy,  Best wishes for beating your cold.  And good luck at boot camp!

Viljars,  Yes.  Well done.  That's exactly what I have found.  Lots of Z2 running builds one's ability to run the same pace at a lower heart rate, or run the same heart rate and go faster.

Which brings up this week's Challenge Of The Week (COTW).  

Pick one, or all three (S, B, R), sport and establish your benchmark test.

For example, test your Swim time for 200 yards (or meters), or how many far you Swim in 5 minutes.

Or your Run time for 1 mile or 3 mile or 5k.  

Or your Bike time for XX mile ride.  Or how many miles in XX minutes (this can be outside or inside).

These examples are measuring speed at hard efforts (anaerobic).  Mine is measuring speed at a target easy effort.  I run 3 miles on a track at zone 2 heart rate (140 beats per minute).  I've been doing this 2 or 3 times a month, in addition to other running.  My time has come come down from 10 minutes per mile, to 9:35, to 9:15, to 9:05, while running at the same heart rate.

You can choose a hard effort test (anaerobic), or an easy effort (aerobic) test.  If you choose a hard effort, make it short enough that you're not sore the next few days.  I would be sore if I did a maximum effort 5k run, but not if I did a maximum effort 0.5 mile (800 meter) run. 

Roll call!  Everyone post your Benchmark test.

Any good ideas for blister prevention and care while training with one the size of texas?

I went for physical and the allergy I thought I had was sinus infection. No swimming, bike slowly and walking only. Made appt for followup and hopefully physical in 3 weeks. I plan on speed walking and bike with weight machines.

You cannot command the wind but you can adjust the sails.

~~~~__/)~~~

Thanks for the article.  I'd like to say that I've been on a number of online forums the past few years, and I feel very supported and inspired by everyone in our little crew.  Thank you!

 I did a HFLIZ2R run on Saturday at Stone Mountain Park.  Bill, If you're familiar - I started at the Children's playground and took the road around to the grist mill - about 1.7 miles. 17:38 pace keeping it as close to 131 as I could.  I took the trails through the woods back, walking - that took almost twice as long.  It is farther - hard to estimate how much farther, and it's pretty rocky and slopy terrain, so it was a fun hike but very slow going.  I didn't keep as close an eye on my HR, but it was higher on the hike than on the "run".  All in all it was 1:20 of beautiful weather and fun.

All in all, I'm really pleased with this week.  This was a "getting back into a routine" week, so I didn't try to really push anything until Saturday - my goals were just to get to the gym, go to yoga class, get in the pool, on the stationary bike, and onto the treadmill.  I did each at least once during the week.

I started off this week in the pool, swam 15 laps (sounds better than it was) in 25 minutes (3:20/11 yards accoding to the training log calculation), and ran an additional 3 for 5 minutes.  I don't know how to do those flip turn things at the end of the pool, so I freestyle stroked up the lane, then backstroked back each time.  It wasn't continuous, but the stops after each 25 yards were really short.  I was pleased.

In terms of a plan - I'm 22 weeks out from my event, so I have another couple of weeks before I was planning to actually start the structured 20 wk balanced 2x plan. So for this week my plan is:

3/30 minute 131 bpm targetHFLIZ2R runs - whatever that distance ends up being is okay.

2/30 minute stationary bike sessions

2/30 minute pool workouts

1 yoga class

Hi Tony, I love the Speedo Vanquisher goggles.  Best fit I've ever had in a pair of goggles.

Jen,  Ouch, big blister may take a few days to heal.  To drain or not to drain?  In the Boy Scouts we were taught to drain them.  If you want to, dip a needle in alcohol, then hold it flat, parallel to the skin and gently push it in, near the middle, near Abliene.  Hold the needle flat so you don't poke into the foot.  Then squeeze it gently to drain.  Then leave it alone.  Maybe cover with a light bandage to catch any more drainage.

To prevent blisters I lube my feet with vaseline before runs longer than 1.5 hours (which I don't do very often).  For shorter runs, my favorite socks, not the most fashionable, but no blisters

http://www.thorlo.com/socks/running-socks/mini-crew/10.php 

These socks work well even if wet and they last forever.  I bought a new pair this year.  My 2 other pair are several years old.

Jan,  Way to go!  You're off to a good start.  "131 bpm target HFLIZ2R runs - whatever that distance ends up being is okay." -- this is awesome.  It's taken me a couple of months to "get it", that when the goal for the workout is, for example, 40 minutes at 140 heart rate, then it doesn't matter what the distance is.  To finish on time, I'll do the workout as an out-and-back run.  Or multiple small loops (around the block).  

"whatever that distance ends up being is okay" -- this is really a significantly different mental state for those of us who've been running a long time by distance/time/pace.  There will come a time, soon, in training when distance/time/pace is important.  But being able to switch gears to run by effort (heart rate or RPE) for an amount of time, can be a liberating break from being a minutes per mile, clock watcher.

Tony, don't buy the cheapest goggles, they're no bargain if they leak or break easily.  Speedo and TYR make good ones.  Medium price in USA is $15 to $20.  I like to try them on, so buying online doesn't work for me for goggles.  Clear lens are better for murky lake swims.  Tinted lens are better when you're swimming in bright sun.

I wanted to check in after last weeks activities.

Last week I decided to just have fun with the swimming and biking. So off to the pool I went Tuesday and Friday. Swam 30 laps the first time and Friday 40 laps, not sure if its a 25m or 25 yard pool. Both times I did one breast stroke and one lap free style. Had a lot of fun doing this. Not sure of the times, around 50 seconds per lap on average.

I then rode on my mountain bike 4 times last week as well. Sunday, Monday, Thursday and Saturday, average of 10 miles per session at around an hour per session. Loads of fun!

I checked my equipment and seem to have most everything I require. Will focus on a more structured approach this week.

Have not had a bicycle fitting yet.

Hey Linus,

Good job on the swimming and 4 times on the bike!  Productive week.

Will you be competing using your mountain bike?  Or are you getting the bike fit on your road bike?

What's your feeling on heart rate monitors?  Do you have one?  Have you ever used one?  Are you interested?  No wrong answers, just curious.

Suggested things to do:

1. Find out for sure what is the length of your pool.  There's nothing wrong with taking a measuring tape and going along the deck.  Or if there are tiles, or uniformly spaced seams in the deck, you might measure a few, then count the length and multiply.

2. Note the exact time for one full effort, down and back, free style.  Check this after you've warmed up for about 5 minutes of swimming.  Otherwise, keep doing as you're doing.  Time in the water, mix up the strokes, just keep swimming.  You're building endurance.

I remember you said you had some swim lessons last year.  Might you take lessons again?

Bill

Hey everyone,

I have a question, how do you keep track of the laps in the pool? I know count them , but I always forget and lose track. Oldtimers setting in i guess....

any ideas

Pierre

Hey Shipmates,

Have a couple of questions regarding bike training in the gym. I'm just wondering what the metrics on the bike mean, and was I exercising in the right zones. The bike is not a spinner, more of a sit on with where you hold on to bars down near your hips and have a back support.

I did 42 minute cycle at effort level 5 of 12. My RPMs were between 75-80 all the time. My heart rate was 140 to 145 bpms most of the time. Distance on the bike clock was 9.3miles and that equates to a pace of 4.24 mins per mile. The watts on the bike were around 135 - I have no idea what this (watts) mean?

The workout was comfortable and I feel great afterwards. My questions are - was it a suitable workout for HFLIZ2R plan? My next cycle is my long one for the week and its 80 minutes. Should I repeat at same level? Should I have a lower difficulty level and higher RPMs - or the opposite? Is my heart rate about right?

Been for a couple of swims this week, and I am very erratic to say the least! Waiting for lessons to start. My goggles arrived today from Amazon (trying to buy swim gear in rural Ireland isn't so easy!) - they are Aqua Sphere - Kayenne. Looking forward to trying them out- they might help me swim in a straight line! :-)

Tomorrow is a rest day - feel very energized by new regime, but the rest will be good before long swim and cycles to follow!
Tony

Hi Pierre,

I have the same problem.  I try to hit the lap button on my watch every time I turn at the end of the pool where I started.  So it's counting laps, not lengths.  Yet, even this simple habit gets lost when I really get "in the zone".  But that's ok too.  I'd rather be so comfortable, so relaxed mentally, and so mind wandering, that I'm day dreaming and just stroking out the distance.  Too much of the time I'm mentally tense and over-focused.  To break this, I don't look at the split time, I just hit the button and keep going.  

This is a good point for everyone.  Just as important as building your technique to swim efficiently and building your muscle endurance to swim strong and steady, is building your swimming mental state to be relaxed, confident, and comfortable in the water for the full amount of time of your race.  Many things can happen and often do (murky water, wind and waves, jelly fish, getting bumped or kicked, the glaring bright light of sunrise coming in at a low angle on the same side you turn your head to breathe), during the swim.  Some of which you can control or adjust for, but many which you can't.  And you must have the mental presence to remain calm, re-focus, and keeping going.  Next time you're in the pool, tell yourself "I'm ok", "I'm swimming well", "I'm getting more comfortable in the water".  This positive self-talk helps.

Pierre, missing the count isn't the end of the world, my watch records the splits, so I scroll through them after and see if there was one or two which were twice as long and I correct the count for my training log. 

Tony, Yes, you're on the right path with the exercise bike.  It's a start.  4.24 minutes per mile is 14.2 miles per hour.  4 minutes per mile will be 15 mph.  

I suggest adjusting the machine to level 4 (yes, easier!), and targeting the same 140 to 145 heart rate.  Probably you will have to pedal faster.  Ideal would be a cadence of 85 to 90, but focus on hitting the heart rate target.  Notice too if you get the same 135 watts.  You may find you're able to get slightly higher watts, at the slightly higher cadence, using the same heart rate.  This is parallel to shifting to an easier gear and pedaling faster when on the bike on the road.  

Everyone has their own best cadence, but for most triathletes the most efficient is 85 to 95 rpm, which will seem fast at first.  It's like walking up a flight of short steps in stead of tall steps.

Good luck in the pool!  Check your time for a full effort, down and back, one lap, of steady free style.  This will be your starting point benchmark.

I too was curious on how to keep the lap counts straight in my head, pierre beat me to the question.

Bill,

I wont be taking swimming lessons again unless I need them, well maybe I do to improve my efficiency. Will see, for now I am just thrilled I can do 40 laps. I'm probably going to warm up for 5 mins then do sets. Starting off with 100 yards (1 freestyle, 1 breast stroke and then 2 freestyle). Or maybe even just do 50 yard sets with 2 freestyle laps. I'm thinking the more I do freestyle the better I can get at it.

I use the Garmin 305 on the bike, which has a hert rate monitor as well. Havn't done any heart rate training, primarily cause I dont know how to. Just monitor my heart rate on the bike for now.

I was thinking of investing in a watch. Which one would you suggest? The Garmin 310xt seems great but maybe too much of an investment and watch for me. I'd like the HR, GPS and waterproof options. One device to do it all.

Also looking for stretching exercises for each sport. I do minimal stretches now and will will like to do more.

Thanks

I loose track too... last year when I first started really swimming laps, I'd place a marker on the ledge of the pool and move it for every 5 laps.  Since I never did more than 20, that worked pretty well. 

After that, I started varying the number of strokes between each breath depending upon the lap number - and that has helped me not loose count.  For example, on lap 6, I breathe every third stroke.  Lap 7 I alternate breathing between stroke 3 and stroke 4 (3+4=7) Lap 8 I breathe every fourth stroke, but I start on the right side instead of the left... things like that.  It gets to be a game, and I don't loose count as often.

I love to swim it relaxes me. Have fun in the water while swimming!

2 ways to have fun and keep track of distance:

1. when you do your length wether it is a length of the pool one way or a lap of the pool 2 ways instead of counting think of your favorite item that relates to letters

A: anteater

B:boats

C: cars

D: dogs

you can let your mind wander about things that start with A or where you want to sail to on what types of boats for B. You can think about your dream cars on C,  how many types of dogs there are on D.

mix it up and everytime you swim come up with new ideas to think about.

OR (My coaches favorite)

Swim Ladders!!!!!

If you are new start with a low ladder 2 step and work to 3 steep

2step ladder:

1 length or( lap for intermediate) of pool 5 second rest

2length(lap intermediate) of pool 5 second rest

1 length (lap intermediate of pool 5 second rest

3 step:

1 length or( lap for intermediate) of pool 5 second rest

2length(lap intermediate) of pool 5 second rest

3 length (Lap intermediate) of pool 5 second rest

2length(lap intermediate) of pool 5 second rest

1 length (lap intermediate) of pool 5 second rest

you can mix it up by swimming fast on the ones, work on strokes on 2's, swim slow on 3's. Or build your long distance freestyle swim straight thru all with rest periods.

Or lower number harder for you stroke.

example 1's butterfly

2' back stroke

3's breast stroke

4's freestyle

note: 5 step and longer.... 10 second rest!!! yes even for the 1's

Plan your sail, sail your plan.

~~~~__/)~~~

Hey everybody!

Got to pool after two weeks, had a bad head trauma and wasn't allowed any swimming. So I seem to have forgotten all I learned about swimming. Just seems too hard- I can run full marathon but cant swim 100 meters. I live in a really small place, finally found someone to teach me some swimming- ONLY way is UP from here. Bad thing is thatIi will have laser eye operation in 2 weeks so there will be a week away from poolagain . Untill then i will live like a fish.

Also snow arrived, so running will be changed to cross country skeeing soon.

So my benchmarks:

run- 5k in 33 min, heart rate 143

bike- 16k (about 10 miles) in 43 min, hear rate 135

swim- 50 meters in 3 min, heart rate too high

...keep on sailing!

Hi All,

Haven't gotten any training in this week, still on antibiotics but am going to start boot camp tomorrow AM (that's a good 35-40 min. of hard cardio for me) and then if I'm feeling good get on our spinning bike after work tomorrow night. Hope to get more workouts/structure in next week and planning on getting in the pool on Sunday as well as my other cardio.

Jen, Thanks for the info, I'm going try that tomorrow. Ladders and maybe alphabets.

Not sure about moving those floating thingees around Pierre. Don't think I noticed them...I'll pay closer attention tomorrow.

Ahoy!

Lot's of good thoughts on swimming.  Glad to hear of everyone's successes, hey, that first trip to the pool is a success.  Getting started.  That first step is the one so many people never take.  Y'all getting an early start on your swim training is great.  Swimming takes a long time to find your groove, where you're comfortable, and to build the muscles to be smooth and steady for the whole race distance.

Linus brought up another interesting topic:  stretching.  This is an important element to a healthy workout routine.  There are many different ways to go and I think there is value in sharing our collective wisdom.

Disclaimer: I'm not a certified coach.  The following is what works for me.  "Your mileage may vary".  

I general I believe in dynamic stretching more than static stretching.  By dynamic I mean I extend the arm or leg or joint until the muscle is tight and hold it very briefly, moving to and from the limit.  Static stretching, to me is extending until it's tight and continuing to pull or hold it for many seconds or minutes.  To me, dynamic stretching, is not "bouncing", but is more like yoga or tai chi, almost constant moving, pausing at the limit of extension briefly, up to 10 seconds.

I do very little stretching before swimming.  I swing my arms, "windmills", for a minute or two to loosen my shoulders.  I always do the first couple of laps easy, warm-up.  I've had a cramp a few times, but never strained anything from swimming.

I do most of my cycling by riding with groups.  I ride 10 minutes to the start of one group ride, 20 minutes to another.  I try to arrive 5 to 10 minutes early, thinking that if I should have a flat enroute, I might be able to change it and still catch up with them.  When I get there I do a few stretches while awaiting the start.  I stretch my back, hamstrings, quads, calves, neck rolls.  I've had calf cramps a few times (on long hot days), and sore quads many times, but no injuries from cycling.

I try to do a few minutes near the start of every run.  Typically I will jog slowly for 2 to 3 minutes, then stop and do 2 to 3 minutes of basic "runners" stretches - calves, quads, hamstrings, back, shoulders.  Most runs I start from home and then I pause at the corner, 2 blocks away, to do my stretching.  I've had prolonged upper foot pain, plantar faciitis (foot arch pain), calf strain (tendonitis), knee pain (patella tendonitis), all of which are helped, and less likely to re-cur, with basic stretching.  One book suggested doing a calf stretch, instead of standing as though you're trying to push over a wall, by doing vertical pushups leaning into the wall by flexing your arms.  The dynamic action is gentler on your calves and the action tones your arms.  Occasionally I stretch for 10 - 15 minutes after running, I probably should do it more often, I always feel good when I do.

Do you stretch?