Jim Kelley's General and Long Course Group 2017 (OPEN) (Page 3)

I've sent them an email and asked. My concern is that it may not be a typo due to the quite-late start times. 14.00 for the pros, and 14.05 AGers. We'll have sunlight quite late at that point in August, ca. 22.30, but they may be concerned about having folks out on course when it gets dark. Still, 3 hours could be 4:00 - 4:30 and we folks would still finish with the sun up...

I checked a few other 70.3's in the area, and theirs is the only one with such a stiff cut-off for the bike. The others were much more in-line with Ironman Norway.

Clip-ons it is then! I'll get them soon, and start "breaking them in" while my bike is still on the trainer for winter base-miles

Question about running training? Does anyone feel aerobically fine after a long run, but the legs are tired?

I put in an easy 6 miles at zone 2 with a couple zone 3 intervals and when I reached 6 miles I felt like I should stop to avoid injury to my legs or feet. I felt like I had enough endurance to keep going but my legs were telling me to stop.

How can I overcome this so I can put in the mileage?

Have you considered your shoes? This was my big hurdle when I went into the realm of long miles...

I'd always been an "asics guy" but suffice it to say, that was wrong! Once I got the right shoes (and insoles if needed), the legs started to keep up with my cardio capacity. I now use Hoka OneOne Cliftons, and replace them every year due to the mileage. I'll just say that I would have NEVER considered buying the Hoka's had I not gone into a specialist running store...

Shoes - why didn't I think of that? I was hoping there would be some magical supplement I can legally take that makes my legs last longer on runs.

I went to a running store a year ago, spent $100 on a good pair of Nike Air Zooms which I was happy with, bought another pair a month ago. Maybe I should return to the store and explain my situation. My mileage and goals have changed from a year ago so perhaps another shoe might be in order.

Can you tell me what Hoka's are known for or why they are so good?

You could definitely go back to the shop! I recommend talking with someone there that has experience with what you are planning to do, and the issues you are having. I got lucky, and the lady who helped me was also a marathoner and had experienced some of the issues I had. Plus, she did not rush me. I think I spent almost two hours with them! It was very much like test-driving new cars

I use Hoka OneOne Clifton IIs (although the 3rd gen shoe is now out and I'm going to get those next ) The Cliftons are a "long distance shoe" with a neutral sole, and an exagerated rear slope to the heal. It's several millimeters removed from a standard running shoe so it helps with heel-strike and "rolling" your foot from heal to toe during your stride. The sole has been described as "like running on a tempur-pedic mattress" I can 100% agree with this analogy. Your best bet is to go to their link and read about them, they do a much better job explaining the technology! Here's a link to review site....not everyday you see a 10/10 rating!

http://www.runningshoesguru.com/2016/08/hoka-one-one-clifton-3-revi...

Hoka OneOne makes different shoes for different foot strikes and running goals. For example, if you over-pronate, they will have a different shoe. If you want lighter, and won't be dong full marathons, you may want one of their other models.

Last thought, that I forgot to mention yesterday, is stride. I was striding way too long! Especially downhill. According the lady who helped me that meant I was doing "double the damage" to my knees and joints with every step beacuse I was increasing the speed and weight of impact by openeing up my stride downhill. I used a lot of training miles to focus my on my stride and keep it "shorter" and higher RPM, as opposed a sprinters stride, which is long and powerful... For what it's worth, I've run my last full marathone and half-marathon 100# pain-free.

Good luck!

I'd suggest going to a specialty running store and have them do a gait analysis. They usually do this as a service to customers, and they can find the shoe that works best for your specific gait. When I started running, that's what I did. The salesman then found 3 or 4 shoes that best fit my gait, and I tried them all on. Jogged around the store in each and made my decision. I've since bought several more pairs of those shoes until they were so far discontinued I had to get the new model (If anyone has any Mizuno Wave Rider 14 in a 10.5, I'd be interested). You can find the same shoes online but I felt that the service and gait analysis was worth the few extra bucks at the store for the first pair or two. Another thing a salesperson can see is how much heel to toe drop would match what your stride needs. I'm no expert but for me, I need some drop. I've tried the barefoot running and for anything beyond a 5k, my zero drop shoes would never have been pulled out.

I've tried other shoes but for an all around training shoe, I keep going back to the Wave Rider. I have a pair of Cliftons and used to really like them. I think I screwed them up when I did a 14 mile run on a 1/16th mile indoor track. Running in those small circles caused me to wear them over to the outside, and now I constantly get blisters, even in a short 2 mile jog on a treadmill. I've also tried other brands such as Saucony, Addidas, etc.. I guess what I'm suggesting is try several to see which ones you like. What works for me may not be whats comfortable for you, and vice-versa.

Steve

So, I've now done 2 rides on the trainer with the new clip-ons mounted. First ride I took it easy and it seemed ok. Second ride, I tried to "pick it up" a bit and now my left glut is unhappy with me. May have even strained the hamstring a little.

I ride a Lynskey R230 with a relaxed geometry and I've never liked full-on racers with negative drop stems sitting 6+ inches below the saddle. My setup is more or less even, in that the saddle sits just about 1 1/2 inches above the stem, and I have a very comfortable posture on the bike. Good for long distance, but not "aero" at all. I've done mostly distance riding and racing and found this set-up through trial and error, after my LBS tried to "kill" me with a full race fitting...

So, since I now want to try to ride on the clip-ons as much as possible during the race, is there anything I can be doing to make this transition easier? I've decided to back-off a bit and just ride easy using them for now. I have time and plenty of base-miles to build before I hit the road. What about bike set-up. Does bring the saddle forward and/or dropping it a few MMs help? Would it look stupid, and possibly defeat their purpose, to tilt the clip-ones up a bit more? (They are already tilted up some; definitely not running parallel to the ground)

Time on them and in the saddle will make it easier. I have a road bike with clip on bars. It took me a while to ride in them for any length of time. I did move my seat forward and up, but I was trying to achieve an aero position close to being on a tri bike. Even purchased a Profile Design fast forward seat post. It made a world of difference for me. By getting more forward I was able to let my forearms rest without over stretching and the shoulders. It's what made it more comfortable. My bars are fairly parallel to the ground or at least they were. A few weeks ago I leaned them up to try it and enjoyed it so I haven't moved them back and probably won't. I will say, I never saw much speed difference even when I originally put them on. But, I'm a larger guy with more mass to move and can only get so low on the bike.

Thanks! I'll give it a try with moving the seat a bit forward. May even look for the seat post

Last ride went a little better, but I also backed off quite a bit and decided to stop being stupid and pushing too hard this early in the season!

Color me unimpressed with the Race Organizers for the HIM I'd like to do! I've now sent them 2 emails (one in English, and one in Norwegian), and asked them for clarification on their Facebook page. Still no answer!

I did, however, find the results of the race last year and it may very well be what you mentioned Jim...that they have extremely stiff cut-offs to limit number of entrants.

In 2016, there were only 205 male racers. 188 finished. Of the 188, it appears that only 5 or 6 of them were on the bubble to be pulled off course at T2. Last place finisher of the race (#188) had the following times:

Swim: 43:45
T1: 4:45
Bike: 3:31:02
T2: 2:45
Run: 3:04:52
Total: 7:27:18

I have no idea if they had the same cut-offs last year. Perhaps they let the "bubble" racers finish as they were really close? Either way, this guy's result wasn't half bad, for the last finisher!!

Every single guy in my AG (M45) finished under the 7:10 cut-off.

--So, now I'm thinking they actually do have these cut-off times... So I need to suck it up and get my swim leg faster or I need to find a different race.

I'm leaning towards just sucking it up, keep swimming hard, and plan on holding 30 km/hr for the bike. The rest will work itself out!

After quite a bit of searching I have found a triathlon before the Tønsberg 70.3 I'm doing and it fits my schedule!

It's 5 weeks before, so it should be a fine marker to see where my fitness is.

I have the choice between a sprint or an oly. The Tønsberg race is apparetnly a big deal (big purse so all the Euro pros come to it I guess...), so I want to "practice" my T1 and T2 at this tri before the "big show", and really just learn/experience it at least once before Tønsberg.

So, a sprint would do that just fine BUT an oly would give me that 1500m swim, which we be a great confidence booster going into the 1900m swim in Tønsberg.

So, which one should I sign up for??

I'm leaning towards the oly, but maybe I shouldn't push my luck?

My opinion is to do the Olympic. I did an Oly 3 weeks before my half and the confidence boost was well worth it. You are also in your peak stage of training. The one thing I tried to do was treat it as a workout and not as a race. I told myself that my time/place didn't matter and that I was doing this for the practice run, transitions, etc. In reality on race day I forgot most of that advice. I felt a lot more confident when I was waiting at the swim start for the half.

Couldn't agree more!! Go with the OLY. It's so different from any sprint, and will give you a better insight into any changes you need to make for your HIM.

The oly it is!!!

Thanks to both of you for the input

Just wanted to give a brief update on where I am at. Since January, I'm down 30 pounds on the scale, and my running has begun to improve. Starting from essentially the couch, there wasn't really any other direction it could go. I have a half marathon in a month that I will be employing the Galloway method to get through it. Right now, a 6 mile long run is my longest but making improvements and increasing the long run a mile a week. I've also been biking 2 to 3 times a week but those have been Z2 efforts and essentially just recovery from the running. I focused on running to get the biggest gain in fitness and weight loss before starting the Fink plan in the middle of April. I have yet to get into the pool. I also haven't ran or biked outside, but that's going to change this weekend.

I still haven't pulled the trigger to register for Boulder 70.3 in August, but think that will happen this weekend. I wanted to wait to make sure I maintained the focus to train for it, and so far so good. I've also gotten the support from my wife, which makes things a lot easier.

I hope everyone else is having a good start to their spring training,

Steve

I know what it is like to be stuck inside training. All of my running and biking training have been inside so far this off season. I started to ramp back up in December and going on 4 months of this is really getting old. Can't wait for a break in the weather to get outside for a change of scenery!!!

The indoors does get old!!! I know, for me at least, subscribing to Zwift has helped with the trainer rides. It isn't a perfect system but it helps with bore that sets in on the hour or longer sessions. The run I try to do outside as much as possible or use a track. The treadmill is the equivalent of a long slow death to me. My training has been going well. Tweaked my left calf running last week. Not sure exactly what I did but it hurt bad. Took a couple days off before running again, all pain was gone before I did this, and about 1 mile in it cramped up real bad. So a walk home it was. Ran again on Monday and Wednesday of this week and it was sore but not painful. More like it was fatigued from a hard work out the day before. Haven't ran since, and have a massage session scheduled for Monday. Not going to run until after the therapist takes a look at it and gives me her opinion. Hoping it's nothing horrible, but we will see. Other than that, it's been pretty steady. 2-3 swim sessions a week and 2-3 bike sessions a week. Next week starts a different period of training to work on speed in all 3 sports. Keep up the good work everyone!!!

I'm also really tired og being stuck inside! My last two runs were outside and that was awesome Only had to take it easy on ice in a couple of very shady places. Even got a ride in outside (on the MTB) this past week

BUT (there's always a but) we live in Norway, so Mother Nature likes to remind us of that! Woke up this morning with 6 inches of fresh snow on the ground Not too big of an issue, but I now have to wait a little bit for the trails and sidewalks to be clear of ice again...

Hope everyone's first day of spring has been great! They are calling for near 70 degree weather this weekend so hopefully will be outside for my long run and ride this week! Keep up the good work!!

Ran outside last night! High 40s (12c), sunny...beautiful!

Still doing all training inside in Virginia - not a terrible thing, but I am still getting some reps in there. Question on swim:

Swim is my weakest skill, but I've seen the biggest gains on my time compared to where I was 6-8 weeks ago For example, I was swimming 300 yards in about 6 minutes and now I'm down to 5:20, zone 3/4.

I recently started doing some speed work in the pool by doing set 10x100 or 5 x 200 - as fast as I can. Obviously, the results are from these workouts. Any other tips or advice on how I can continue to improve? What is everyone else doing on their speed work out swim days?

Those are good swim numbers! (I think so at least ) I'm nowhere near those times, but to be honest, I just started swimming in January after 20+ years of not swimming. My goal for the HIM in August is 38:00...so 2:00/100m and come out of the water "un-tired"... 40-45:00 would be acceptable too.

I had a good weekend training! With a great 11.5km run outside in 10C partly sunny conditions on Saturday. Followed by a1400m swim in the pool on Sunday morning, and a 40 km ride outside Sunday afternoon. Beatiful day, and my first "real" ride with the aero clip-ons, tri-seat, and Fast Forward seatpost. Ride went well, and riding in aero position was pretty good. I am a bit sore between the shoulder blades today though...

Well I finished the half marathon that I had used as a gauge for the 70.3 in August. It went about as I expected. Pretty sore yesterday and today, but getting better. My Half training plan starts today and I crushed my first workout. Monday = Rest Day.

On another note, I would advise anyone that is preparing for a half marathon to NOT eat a t-bone steak the night before. We had a lot of family at our house for the holiday, and we grilled. I never really thought about how that would hamper me on the run at the time, but by mile 4 I was thinking about that steak a lot. Oh well, it was only meant to be a training run to see where my fitness was at. It's not like the 8 minutes I spent at the porta potty was going to take me off the podium.

I hope everyone is having a great spring and the training is going well.

Steve

Congrats on the half! Always nice to knock those out and confirm we can still do this stuff

Agree on the steak btw. I can't imagine that feeling

Spring here has been messing with us to say the least. We had some really nice weather before Easter, and then Norway reminded us that it's still Norway, and we've had snow, sleet, rain, plus degrees and minus degrees over the last 10 days or so. I did a trail run on Tuesday, and about half the trail was still covered in snow...

It's supposed to get nice by the weekend. I'm crossing fingers.