Dirk's Junkie group - CLOSED (Page 33)

bswcpa - 2012-02-03 6:50 PM Thanks for the pointers on the swim videos. I'd watched Mr. SwimSmooth before I went to the pool and really worked on the catch and pull since I've not concentrated on that part before - ever. I printed out all your points and will work on them next week. You're a super helpful bunch! Thank you. Loved, loved the video links that both Jonathan and Warren posted. Those just made my day. I'm also on Facebook so feel free to "friend" me. I just sent a request to the aforementioned guys since I already knew they were connected to Dirk. Name is Brenda Hoskinson Worrell. Quick question on tires. Need to buy some for my Zipp 404s (found a great deal on the race wheels so yep, I'm excited). Again, I need 650c. Any recommendations or what I should look for? I'm hoping to get a bike ride on my trainer in the wee hours of the morning tomorrow before my daughter's basketball tournament but then I'll be taking a day of rest on Sunday down in Indy as I root the GIANTS on to a Superbowl win. Have a great weekend everyone! GO GIANTS!!

I couldn't get the video to play but you got plenty of good tips already! Have fun at the super bowl.

My husband asked me who I was rooting for.  I didn't have a clue who is even playing. Is that Un-American .

I also enjoyed the videos!

I had a nice ride on my tribike this morning. I have lost so much fitness from where I was last fall. But, what can you do when your body does not cooperate.

Did I miss anything today?  Seems like I take a few hours off from the site and there are 3 pages of reading to catch up on.  The inspirational videos were great, to fall and not even think about stopping but get right back up and chase the others runners down, amazing.

I agree that is is hard to create the "breathing wake" when going slow!  This is coming from a ssssllllloooooowwwww swimmer so I know this part.  

I have an easy weekend planned, taking Saturday off and going for 10 mile run on Sunday.

Brenda,  I'll let Jonathon, Jeff and Warren weigh in on the tires because they are the cyclists in the bunch.  However, if it's racing tires your looking for I think you should look for some latex tires.  I think Jeff posted that they are the lightest weight and best type of racing tire.  I am planning on buying some lighter weight tire to race in this season but even that is going to have to make it through "the budget committee" as Warren says. 

Have a great time at the game!  I actually have mixed feelings about who to root for.  I have always been an underdog fan and I remember when the Pats were TRASH.  Obviously they haven't been for a long time but I can't help but still like them, even though Belichek has the cheat rep.  I will probably root for the Giants though for a similar reason.

Dina, you'll pick that fitness back up pretty quick, just stick to the training.. And since it's cycling you can really hit some intensity training to get back sooner.  What are your plans for bike training?  Are you doing any interval or tempo work?

Matt, this is a very active group for sure!  If it wasn't for Jeff, Jonathon and Warren I would have shot myself by now.  One thing I am still learning: I still have a lot to learn and all the activity in this group is proving that.

I'm having kind of an easy weekend too.  Tomorrow is only a 7 mile run because I did my long run mid week so I wouldn't have to try to smash it in before the swim meet tomorrow.

So, if I can do this correctly I am going to post a few pics of my daughter from her sectional meet.  With all the discussion of the catch and breathing in the water, I found a few good one's for demonstration.  (But mostly it's just to brag on my girl.)

First is just bragging rights.  I love her entries!  She could be shot out of a bow as straight as she enters the water most of the time.  I have several pics of her like this.  You can imagine how fast she can blast through the water by being so straight and narrow.

Second is the catch.  If you can see her hand extending in front of her, it is bent down as she is beginning to "catch" the water before she pulls it to and under her.  Also, look how long she is.  She has a really good stretch prior to beginning the catch and pull.  This is important and helps with rotation and hydrodynamics by narrowing the body slightly.

Third is the breathing.  Just as Warren said, you can really see the wake of water for her to breath in.  You are all correct that the slower you go the harder it is going to be to find that sweet spot but it is usually there.

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Ok, need some help from you run junkies out there.  I have a HM set-up for 4-22 (glass city).  I am now starting to think about a time goal to start working towards.  As some of you may remember my 1st HM was back in November with a finish time of 2:01:53.  Missed my 2hr goal because of a stupid bridge!  I am thinking about shooting for 1:50, which is just slightly under an 8:30 pace.  The mental part of a 2:02 race wasn't bad, I just don't think I was prepared for that stupid bridge.

Anyway what steps do I need to take over the next 2.5 months to reach the goal?  I know we consistently talk about slow and easy, and this has worked to get me to my current level.  I have been averaging around 20-25 mpw over the last month and will be increasing this number for the rest of February to get into the 30's.  Nobody cringe, but I was thinking of adding a short speed day.  Maybe taking one of the short days and pushing the pace to 8:30, my thinking is to get my body used to the speed without going to long.  Does this make sense?  How long should this be, I was thinking 5K?

Oh the goal time came from some race predictor, 

Dirk, before the back problems I had plans to try out trainer road. I do intervals on most rides. A simple one for me is 4 min hard or even 4 min with each min a little faster spin or harder gear then 1 min recovery. I'm going to try to get everything working for trainer road today I think.

Right now I'm still testing out my back. I think part of my struggle yesterday was being outside and dealing with the elements (wind), and being on the tri bike again. It really is a different position and I still have a little mental fear of falling that is also holding me back. I speed walked with the dog after the bike ride and my legs were burning like crazy. I'm very far from racing shape......

The photos of your daughter are really awesome! I can see why you will miss watching her swim. WOW. The diving entry is excellent. How do they keep their goggles from filling up with water?

So it looks like I am determined to sabotage myself. I was slicing an onion on the mandoline last night and took off a hunk of the end of my thumb. I was planning to swim today but my hubby says no way. It was bleeding a lot last night and we have it wrapped in guaze. When do you all think I can get back in the pool with something like this?

I'm not sure if this will work or not but our swim for fitness coach took a video of 6 of us from swim class. Everyone is at a different level - from collegiate swimmer to beginner to hack of a triathlete (that would be me). Kind of interesting. There is a little bit of me. I didn't know I was being recorded or I would have tried harder . This is on my facebook page so you might have to be my friend to view - Dina Jackson.

 https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=2956638687282&oid=192761234084437#!/photo.php?v=2956638687282

I went back and looked at your logs.  I think the timing of your question is really good because you have established a pretty good base for 2 months averaging about 23 miles a week for that time period.

I think is would benefit you a lot to do some speed work over the next couple of months.  I also would say that, provided you focus correctly on race day, you could probably get a little bit faster than that 1:50:00 too.  That last HM was at the beginning of your training, so to speak, and you have since been running more frequently and more focused.

For the speed work, I think a 3 mile run would be good place to start.  (Now, I am a major proponent of Tempo runs myself because they have worked for me and I think they seem to fit well for distance running.)  The key to running a good tempo is finding the right pace and effort level to hit the targets.  Most people say that a good tempo run will be in the range of your 10k pace, which for you would be around 8:25-8:35 miles.

Make sure you do a really good warm up before trying to hit the paces that you're targeting.  (Depending on how I feel for my tempo's I may run as many as 2 miles to get warmed up.)  If you do not WU properly you will likely injure yourself over time.  I think many of us that don't do a proper race WU are able to get by with it because we are only doing that on an occasional basis.  A routinely fast paced run with no WU is a whole different ball game.

Once you get into your run, try to hit your pace after the first half mile but try to be very close (within 10-15 seconds) before that.  Trust me, if you try to go from a WU to that pace too quickly your body will rebel and you'll want to quit.  After the first half mile things get a little better because you HR will begin to level out and you'll be a little more comfortable but it will still be hard.

One way that I have heard people describe a tempo run is "comfortably hard."  But they don't start that way.  The quick escalation of your HR make you pretty uncomfortable at first.

Dina,  I think it's a good idea to "test" your back on the bike.  And depending on your injury and pain, it might be a good idea to stay on the horns for a little bit or use the roadie (if you still have one) on the trainer to keep you from bending more at the waist.  Eventually you will need to get all the way over but it is probably a good idea to go slow.

I think the intervals are a great way to increase fitness but a way to increase endurance is to go into some long hard sets too.  I am learning that this year through Jorge's cycling program and I'm sure you've seen a couple of my post's about how hard they can be.  Try going into at least 15 minutes at a uncomfortably hard pace/speed HR zone at least once every 2 weeks and possibly once a week.  Your legs won't thank you now but they will in a race in the upcoming season.

Laiken, my daughter, and most of the other swimmer, physically push their goggles into their head after raising their eyebrows to create a type of water shed around their eyes.  This seems to keep their goggles from coming off during the entry.  But every once in a while someone will lose their goggles and swim the whole race with them around their neck.

As far as your thumb, I think as long as it is not openly bleeding and covered I would jump in.  If it's not completely scabbed over it may sting a little but I don't think you will do any damage to yourself, nor do I think their would be any issues by using the pool itself.

For your video:

1. It doesn't look like you are not extending your arms in front of you before starting your pull and it looks like your missing the catch (hand position) most of the time.  Your arms should be getting straight out in front of your head and it looks like yours begin pointing down as soon as they enter the water.  Take a look at the Mr. Smooth video again to see what I mean.
2. It looks like you may slightly over rotate your hips at time and this leads to twisting your body out of line creating more drag.  As someone else said recently, picture swimming through a tube, if you get crooked in a tube and hit the sides you're going to slow down.

Good things:

1. You stay pretty flat through the water.  Meaning you don't really seem to drop your legs much.  Obviously this lessens the drag though the water.
2. Your head position seems to be pretty stable.  You're looking at the bottom of the pool as you swim and it doesn't appear that you pick your head up as you take a breath.  If you pick up your head your legs will drop increasing drag.

Haha, only triathletes write things like that bolded part.  And while I doubt there will be much really wrong in your swimming based on your 200 TT time, love to see it. 

I only have time for a fly by this morning, but I'll try to come back later and add some comments on the other bike and swim stuff.

I too am flying by right now but I couldn't wait to share this before heading to Laikens swim meet.

I ran a 7 mile run but after telling Matt to go ahead and start tempo work, I was inspired.  I ran 5 miles and then turned on the jets...............mile 6.................6:05.33...................HR avg. 155 and max 180.  Mile 7 back down to 7:56 and easy.

This was the fastest mile I have ever run but I have never tried to run one mile fast either.  I also had to slow down a little for traffic.  If you would like more details check my log.

Time for a shower and an all day swim meet.  GO LAIKEN!!!! And Concordia HS!!

NICE!  It feels good to un-hitch the cart and let it fly every once in a while.  We put in all of this time doing aerobic work, so it is quite satisfying to feel the results of that hard work.  I remember back when I read that even a 5k is 84% aerobic (article below if anyone is interested - I bookmarked that one for eternity).  That blew my mind and convinced me of the value of long slow pace. But it also makes me anxious for intervals - to get the return on the investment.

http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=16939

Curtis

So basically, if you're running a mile or more, you're mostly doing it aerobically. That's an awesome article and yet another reason for me to bumble around my neighborhood with a nice low HR. Scooooore.

I though this was interesting, since some of you have some mostly flat land around you, I wanted to let you know what you're missing here in Maryland. These are the graphs of the rides I did yesterday and today. I didn't go out looking for hills and these are in opposite directions from my neighborhood. I'm surrounded by the damn things.

Yesterdays:

Todays:

So many hills I have absolutely NO IDEA how fast I can sustain on the flat. I do get some awesome views though, so I'm not really complaining :-)

Rainy - no run. First try at Dirk's bike test - pitiful - probably rode the first 40 min too hard. middle of test , my legs lost power - tough time to just peddle - tried like hell to keep up, but gradually slowed. I did muster courage to give it hell the final 5. road easy for another 30 minutes - if I had tried to walk off that bike after the test - I would have fallen on my face.....HR max at 143 is most I've seen riding. held during test. (I will say - this ride really simulates what my summer group rides turn into - easy pace for first 20 min or so - then all hell breaks loose through the hill section (test section) and everyone left in the group pacing back to the start)

Running: I agree with Tempo runs - BUT - if you are starting out - I suggest my favorite run - more of an interval - I call my "mailbox" or "phone pole" run.  my mailbox run goes 1/2 mile w/u, then I run 4-7 mail boxes "hard" and easy for 4-7 boxes. the distances vary - but that's ok. Start out with fewer boxes and work way up. I warm down last 1/2 mile. second course, w/u 1 mile then I run 2 phone poles "hard" and 2 poles "less" ---Simulates a race - where you are passing people. I like this run a lot and it does impact my races. work on a few of these runs--then add some tempo runs. Will make the tempo runs seem easier and you'll get more out of them too. Good luck!

More swimming help! Thanks - all the video and posts are helping me a TON! Thanks!

Checking in.

I want to thank everyone for their prayers and words of encouragement! It really means a lot to me. I had to stay away from the forum for a couple days, it was too depressing.

I'm still in a lot of pain. I had to go back to the pain meds, which I hate. I tried to get out this morning and ride. I got five miles in and had to turn around. I know it's too soon, but just needed to find out for myself. So, I will wait it out. I think I will get a new doctor and get a second opinion. Ten years of this is just too much. I'm 41 years old and everyone (except my wife) keeps telling me I'm too old for this . Of course they must not have goals and dreams and have to deal with this kind of pain and injury.

I won't be told I can't do something! This drives me even harder. If they want to waste their life sitting on the couch and getting fat, then good for them. I won't!!!!

It's an emotional roller coaster and eventually it has to stop somewhere. So, back to the beginning (AGAIN). Right now I need to get my head right. Then back to the doctors and let them try to find the problem and fix it, but in the mean time, if I feel good I'm out doing what i need to do to reach my goals.

Thanks for letting me vent. Thanks to everyone for their support.

That's a pretty good article.  I did a lot more tempo work during my marathon training than 2.5% and it worked out well for me.  If nothing else it gave me more confidence leading up to the race.  Since my training worked the way it did, I would kind of be scared to change it up for my next one (Boston 2013) but I may have to because I may not want the beating.  When I run Boston I am not sure if I will try to race it or just enjoy the moment.

John,  I would love to ride those hills.  I have ridden some in southern Ohio that would be very close to what you are riding but I only got to do that a couple of times.  Climbing would be something that would help provide some strong fitness that can be brought to flat course racing that flat training rides can't bring to hilly course racing.  Sure living in a wind tunnel like northern Indiana  helps but it's not the same.

Paul,  nice go at the test.  It sounds like you weren't to far off the mark.  Did you record the HR for 30 minutes during the actual test period?  And if so, the average is now your MLSS (Max lactate steady state). That is how you come up with the training focus to be able to target all of your training on the bike.

I am a little confused though.  You said you rode for 40 minutes hard but the test was only for 30 minutes.  There are a couple of hard parts to the WU but those are short to get your HR up before the MS.  Once you are into the test period you only need to ride the 30 minutes to test.  With that in mind, do you think you did the test correctly?  If not, no big deal.  There is more pain to be dealt out at the next test.

Stan,  Hang in there buddy.  If you can hang in there through ten years of pain you can stick with it a little longer.  Take each day as it comes.  Don't give up.  It's through the trials and struggles we go through that we grow.  If life was always easy we would all be couch potatoes and we wouldn't learn and grow.  I know it may not mean a lot right now but stick with it, you'll come through.

DIRK:

I may not? I warmed up 10 easy, and 30 at 70-75% with 5 min max at end - I then added an extra 5 min w/u to eat a few gummy bears - then did the 30 min test - 5 + 20 + 5 min max at end. My hr during test was 141+- that's the highest I've observed during a bike ride - so that's my bike max. I think I rode the warm up too hard - I bonked out about 15 min into the 30 min test - those 10 min were hell - I did dig out a max for the final 5 min. I'll try the test in 2 weeks (out of town next week for work) - will be interesting to see how it goes.......

An earlier question was brought up on what kind of bike we ride.

I have a road bike. I've ridden a tri bike and while it's fast on the flat lands, where I live a road bike is better. Here in Tahoe there are no hills. There's mountains. I'm getting som clip-ons for flatter races, but right now I don't see any reason for a tri bike up here. I do local races all in the mountains. I know someone locally that does tri's and has a TT bike and I'm much faster than him on my roadie. If we were on the flats he would blow me away.

I'm a firm believer in that the engine is what makes you fast. I average 16-18 mph (mountains and 6500 ft). If I was at sea level and had flat roads I bet I could be at least 2-3 mph faster. With a TT bike maybe another 1-2 mph more. It all comes down to training with what you have and can afford.

I plan to upgrade some components on my bike to make it lighter, but see no reason to go off the deep end with $3,000 wheels and many of the other expensive add-ons. I stay within my budget and improve the engine.

Stan is surgery an  option for your back? I have some close friends and relatives who have had back surgery from a specialist in St. Loius and their back problems have been eliminated. I'm not sure how their diagnosis compares to yours but I could find out more info if you would like.

Best wishes for a pain free Sunday.

Dirk - 2 x15 at an extremely uncomfortable RPE on the road bike just for you tonight. During the second set I even got my lazy rear end out of the saddle for some super short intervals. My kids were in the basement with me watching Cars and riding around on their scooters. We were all pretending to race. My son kept saying - you can stop now Mom. Nope I've got 6 more minutes!!!! They make riding on the trainer fun!

Had to go to the Saturday clinic for my thumb this morning. We couldn't get it to stop bleeding. Doc couldn't do stitches so he put some kind of special gauze on it to help it stop bleeding. I have very specific instructions - DO NOT GET IT WET. So no swimming for a while. I am supposed to go back to have it looked at on Thursday so we'll see. It's ok - my Y is resurfacing the pool deck this week anyway. I was just going to sneak in a swim tomorrow before they closed for the week.

Nice running everyone! I'm jealous!